Dara Calleary (Mayo, Fianna Fail)
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10. To ask the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform his plans to review and address recruitment and retention issues in various areas of the public service; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [2342/18]

Dara Calleary (Mayo, Fianna Fail)
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During the course of last year there was a major issue in some areas of the public service. Once again the health sector was highlighted in the past few weeks owing to the difficulties faced in the recruitment of nurses and emergency doctors. Difficulties are also evident in the disability services. There was a debate in the House yesterday on section 39 organisations. What are the specific plans in place and the targets for recruitment campaigns in the next quarter to fill vacancies in these areas of the public service?

Paschal Donohoe (Dublin Central, Fine Gael)
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In devising a strategy to address recruitment and retention issues in the public service the Deputy will be aware that the Government approved the terms of reference for the second phase of work of the Public Service Pay Commission to address identified recruitment and retention issues in the public service. Provision for this process was included in the public service stability agreement 2018-2020, PSSA. The Deputy will recall that the commission’s first report recommended a more comprehensive examination by it of underlying difficulties in recruitment and retention in sectors and employment streams of the public service where difficulties were clearly evident. The commission’s approach will seek to identify where and to what extent there are difficulties in recruitment and retention for specific groups, grades and sectors of the public service. In such cases the commission will examine the full range of underlying factors, including the elements underpinning current remuneration packages, planned future pay adjustments, the alleviation of pension-related deductions as provided for in the PSSA and the FEMPI legislation post-2020. The commission will also look at best practice in other jurisdictions and, where appropriate, the domestic private sector in Ireland in addressing such issues. It will also look at supply constraints such as those relating to newly qualified graduates from relevant post-leaving certificate and third level programmes, career structures and other relevant HR practice or organisational issues.

The parties to the PSSA will have an opportunity to make submissions to the commission as an important part of the process. In conducting the work in its second phase the commission has access to external expertise to inform its deliberations. It will seek to bring forward a preliminary report during the year ahead and a final report on all these matters by end of the year, as agreed in the PSSA.

Dara Calleary (Mayo, Fianna Fail)
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While I appreciate the work being done by the Public Service Pay Commission, I specifically want to know what will happen in the next quarter. Will there be any focused recruitment campaign launched for the health service or the education sector in which there is also a crisis in finding substitute teachers.

The latter matter was highlighted on a number of occasions, particularly in the past week.

I note the commission is looking at pay and conditions, but is there a plan to examine overall HR practices within the civil and public services? Are these best practice, in terms of where we are at in 2018 and in terms of the lifestyle trends of people who we want to get working? Do they facilitate the choices people are making now, in terms of taking time out to travel and for other reasons, such as further study? Can the Minister honestly say that the HR practices across the civil and public services are fit for purpose in 2018?

Paschal Donohoe (Dublin Central, Fine Gael)
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In regard to the Deputy's first question, I do not agree there is a crisis in recruitment or retention within schools. We are hiring more teachers and we are lucky with the quality of both the graduates who have come through and those who are qualifying from the teaching colleges who are coming into the schools. The Minister for Education and Skills has acknowledged that in a number of particular areas within teaching we are experiencing some recruitment and retention difficulties and he has said that he will bring forward proposals and measures to deal with that.

In regard to the Deputy's second question on whether HR practices are fit for purpose, to be honest, the answer varies by sector. If I look at where we are from a Civil Service perspective, I believe we have HR practices in place that are fit for purposes but I have asked the Public Service Pay Commission to look at HR practices in the particular sectors I touched on a moment ago. I am strongly of the view that if the commission points to difficulties - matters such as career planning, allowing people to study and recognising that people might need to work at different paces at different points in their careers are at the heart of some of the issues we may need to address - it will examine them. It will look at whether such practices are consistently applied throughout the country.

Dara Calleary (Mayo, Fianna Fail)
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I disagree with the Minister. If the Minister thought "Morning Ireland" was difficult this morning, imagine being a primary school principal trying to find a substitute teacher at 8 a.m. this morning. Sitting at a phone, going through the list and trying to find one, which is virtually impossible for many of them. That was highlighted by the Irish Primary Principals' Network. If the Minister was a principal in a secondary school, he would experience the difficulties of trying to get teachers to fill vacancies in science or any of the subjects we value so much, such as mathematics. The reason there are so few people applying to be teachers in those subjects is because it is not seen as attractive. Pay is one issue. Pay equalisation is a key issue which the Minister has discussed, but there are the other issues.

I welcome the Minister's acknowledgement that there are areas of HR that need to be examined but we need to look at this in the round. There is a crisis. There is a shortage of nurses. That has been evident over the past number of weeks. There is a shortage of emergency doctors. That is being highlighted by the Minister for Health. There are so many areas into which we need to inject urgency. We also need to recognise that pay is an issue but it is not the only issue discouraging people from applying for jobs in the public service.

Paschal Donohoe (Dublin Central, Fine Gael)
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I was responding to the Deputy's question, particularly in regard to education. I never said there were not any difficulties. There are difficulties. Where I differ is that we will respond to the difficulties. The Minister for Education and Skills has stated we already do that. We must view the difficulties that we are referring to against the background of two developments. The first is that we are recruiting more teachers and nurses than we have done in the past. We have the ability to do it. Second, an ingredient in all that is the fact that we now have a labour market that is recovering and very healthy. It is entirely possible that we will get to a point this year where we will have more people at work than we have ever had before. This is only a few short years after us battling with the unemployment crisis within our country. Any difficulties, including those the Deputy correctly pointed to, have to be set against the backdrop of the fact that we have over 2 million people at work and we are seeing employment growth begin to be broad-based and across the country.

In response to the Deputy's second point, I agree that we must look at these matters in the round. The Public Service Pay Commission may point to where we are on pay - the commission will look at it - but I am confident it will look at other issues as well.