Dáil debates
Tuesday, 1 April 2025
Confidence in the Ceann Comhairle: Motion
4:55 am
Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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I move:
That Dáil Éireann has confidence in the Ceann Comhairle, Verona Murphy T.D.
As we begin this debate, I hope members of the Opposition will allow others to be heard and will not engage in the systematic barracking we have seen in recent months. This is an extremely serious debate that goes to the heart of a range of fundamental issues about how this democratic Parliament operates. It is profoundly regrettable that this debate is being held today. There is nothing in the behaviour of the Ceann Comhairle that justifies the Opposition's attempt to remove her. It is the sad culmination of an escalating two-month-long campaign of aggression and disruption by much of the Opposition. It is a campaign during which we have heard wild denunciations, the blockading of basic democratic business and the growing intimidation of elected representatives. It is a campaign of aggression and disruption that is wildly disproportionate to any issue at hand. It has, at its core, a demand that the minority should have the right to import mob politics into this Chamber.
Having given us scenes last week that had never before been recorded in 106 years of this democratic Parliament, the Opposition decided it would seek the Ceann Comhairle's head. Having broken every single rule of this House, having shouted down business, having started to chant and abuse others, having refused even to allow the democratically elected chairperson of this House to be heard, Opposition Members are now claiming it is she who should be censured. The Opposition is trying to manufacture a claim that it was actually the Ceann Comhairle who behaved inappropriately and that she is the person in this House who should be attacked. The arsonists are demanding that we censure the fire brigade. Let no one be in any doubt that there is not one bit of good faith in the arguments we have been hearing from Sinn Féin and the parts of the Opposition that have joined it in its aggression.
Eoin Ó Broin (Dublin Mid West, Sinn Fein)
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All of the Opposition have joined us.
Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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Over the past 106 years, the Standing Orders and structures of daily business of Dáil Éireann have changed regularly and often quite radically. There has never been a requirement for all parties to agree a change before it can be implemented. There has never before been a debate as long and as disruptive as there has been on these changes - changes that will mean the Irish Opposition will retain a greater share of speaking time and more opportunities to question the Government than any other Opposition in Europe. No rights are being infringed. The opening of every day will continue to be dominated by questions from the Opposition, and the Opposition will continue to have a share of speaking time well beyond what is proportionate to its mandate.
Yet, we continue to hear escalating and hysterical claims about democracy being undermined. The people who come in here to shout at and intimidate others believe they can lecture us about democracy. The cynicism of this was shown by no fewer than three Sinn Féin sources who confirmed to a journalist in recent days that they would step back from continuing with a programme of rolling disruption of the Dáil because "they believe the damage to the coalition has been done".
The Opposition's true motivation has never been about opposing giving Deputies who support the Government a slightly improved chance to be heard. It is part of their strategy to destroy the ability of others to form a stable Government and implement its agenda in Parliament. Further proof of this can be found in the fact that the largest party in opposition is being quite open about its strategy. Before the Dáil met, journalists were told that Sinn Féin intended to be more aggressive in this Dáil. There would be less trying to look like an alternative government and a much greater focus on total opposition.
Sinn Féin's strategy of regularly collapsing the democratically elected Assembly in Northern Ireland is one it feels has worked and has helped it to overtake other parties there. The assumption was that the party would be able to get the media to accept its framing of everything always being the fault of others. Sinn Féin believes that the dominance of briefings in Leinster House on news coverage would enable it to avoid having to answer any questions. That is why its Minister for enterprise in Belfast resigned and came down to oversee operations in Leinster House. The impact of the new strategy-----
5:05 am
David Cullinane (Waterford, Sinn Fein)
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The Taoiseach said that with a straight face. Fair play to him.
Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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-----has been seen here every day.
Máire Devine (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
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This is comical.
Aengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
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You would know it is April Fool's Day.
Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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Day after day, it has become harder to be heard if Sinn Féin wants to have a go. The strategy has been implemented by means of the rigid discipline and control of elected representatives which is unique to Sinn Féin. We saw this last week when Deputy Carthy left his usual place to sit near the back and co-ordinate disruptions with Deputy Doherty, who led proceedings at the front.
Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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Having collapsed the business of this democratically elected Parliament, Sinn Féin then did what it always does; it played the victim and blamed others for the scenes it had planned and orchestrated. Having broken every rule governing behaviour in the Dáil and making it impossible to hear anything, the party is not only disputing the Ceann Comhairle's ruling, it also disputing the detailed explanation of the Clerk of the Dáil. If the Opposition wants to be taken seriously during this debate, the first thing it should do is acknowledge that its behaviour made the Ceann Comhairle's job almost impossible.
Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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It should also acknowledge that the simple fact is that the majority of those in this Parliament supported the motion before the House, while the Opposition ignored every basic rule and democratic principle in trying to block it.
It is important that everyone understands that this new aggression has been extended to other areas. Until the start of this Dáil, the tradition had been that new Deputies would be given the space and goodwill to settle into their new role. Respect for others has been a hallmark of this Parliament in the past. Unfortunately, I have been told by a number of new Deputies that they have been subject to verbal abuse by supporters of certain Opposition parties. This has been made worse by the refusal of Opposition leaders to restrain their members and call for basic civility.
We all know that public representatives need to be more careful today than in the past, but there is a risk of this situation getting much worse when you have individual TDs being attacked for supporting the formation of a Government and when we hear wild claims about jackboot democracy and the silencing of the opponents of that Government.
David Cullinane (Waterford, Sinn Fein)
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The Taoiseach is the one making wild claims.
Máire Devine (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
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The Taoiseach should not be so hysterical.
Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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If we continue to see this extreme escalation in the rhetoric deployed in debating every issue, the change to our political culture will be permanent and deeply destructive.
It is extremely sad that two parties which claimed to the electorate that they are centre left have been full participants in Sinn Féin's cynical strategy of escalating rhetoric and disruption. They cannot even bring themselves to admit that mob behaviour on the part of Deputies is unacceptable. This is very stark when compared with past practice, and how the Labour Party in particular understood the difference between democratic opposition and destructive opposition.
Last week, a Sinn Féin spokesman said on Virgin Media that Leaders' Questions was set up at the foundation of the State to hold the Government to account. Leaders' Question were, of course, introduced not in 1919 or 1922 but as recently as 2001. The Labour Party opposed the introduction of Leaders' Questions because it felt that the alternative of a free-for-all on the Order of Business was better for the Opposition. The party also questioned the then Ceann Comhairle's rulings. It strongly opposed the changes but understood that its response should be proportionate. The Government of the day went with the introduction of Leaders' Questions following a two-hour debate.
The contrast with how the Labour Party and the Social Democrats have now co-operated as junior partners in Sinn Féin's strategy of aggression and disruption is striking. As well as the disruption of Dáil business, the extreme nature of many of the denunciations of Government are not harmless. On a near daily basis, there are attacks calling us complicit in genocide, destroyers of democracy and warmongers determined to send Irish young people to die in European wars. This type of extreme rhetoric and the mob disruption of parliamentary business must not be normalised.
Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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Over the past few months, I have talked with many other European leaders about the growth of extreme politics, and the impact it is having on their parliaments. The disruptions we have seen here-----
Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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-----and the attack on the Ceann Comhairle are very much part of a pattern where extreme parties have sought to undermine public faith in the idea that anything can be achieved. The one consistent message from every country is to stand firmly against this behaviour. If it is accepted as normal, it will be destructive of parliamentary democracy.
This Dáil is still in its relatively early stages. Our ability to fulfil our mandate is at stake. Let me be very clear on behalf of my party and on that of the majority of Deputies. We will not stay silent as others try to intimidate this House and its chairperson. They will not succeed in imposing rule by minority. They will not block the democratic business of this House, roaring and chanting and then blaming everyone else for their behaviour.
In the 106 years of Dáil Éireann, issues of dramatically higher importance than the changes implemented last week have been dealt with without collapsing Dáil business and without a cynical attempt to blame the Ceann Comhairle for preplanned and co-ordinated disruption. Each of us who has received the great personal honour of being elected to serve the people in this place has an obligation to leave the tactics of disruption and aggression outside. This applies to the Opposition as much as those who support the Government, particularly as they have greater opportunities to speak and ask questions than is found elsewhere in the democratic world.
Our country is facing enormous threats, threats which may be felt in every community and household - tariffs, housing, disability and so forth. We simply do not have time to waste on cynical strategies of aggression and disruption.
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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We do not have any time to do anything.
Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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We do not have the time to waste on this effort to remove the Ceann Comhairle because she would not bow down before an Opposition which demands that the minority have the right to veto our business. This attempt at what I would say is a strategy of aggression and disruption will fail. Those of us on this side are willing to make this Dáil work. There has to be a will on all sides to make it work.
Máire Devine (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
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On the Taoiseach's terms and Deputy Michael Lowry's terms.
Micheál Martin (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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The Government is up for doing that and will work day and night to make it happen. We will then be able to get on with doing the people's business.
Máire Devine (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
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On Deputy Lowry's terms.
Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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It was on this date in 1919 that the First Dáil met for only the third time. It was an historic day, with the confirmation of a new Ceann Comhairle and the election of a new President of the Dáil, then Éamon de Valera. It also led to the creation of a new Government, and Ireland's second Ministry was formed, with the likes of Michael Collins, Arthur Griffith, W.T. Cosgrave, Constance Markievicz, Cathal Brugha, Count Plunkett and Eoin MacNeill. It should bring home for us the value of our democracy that the meetings of the First Dáil were limited because so many were imprisoned, and there was a genuine fear of arrest in a climate of escalating confrontation. These men and women served our country with courage and distinction, and they got on with the work of making Ireland free, independent and a better place to live.
The position of Ceann Comhairle was created at that Dáil's first meeting in the Mansion House on 21 January 1919. Those who have held the office of Ceann Comhairle have presided over the 34 Dáileanna that have served our people since. This should remind us all of the importance of our history, of parliamentary democracy and the role that this House has played over many decades, especially at moments of crisis and national and global challenge. It should remind us too of the need to respect the office of Ceann Comhairle in presiding over this Chamber over that long history and in the circumstances that face us today.
As a country, we are fortunate to have a political tradition that has largely left us well placed to form stable Governments which serve their terms with a working majority. In more recent years, we have demonstrated Government stability with new arrangements such as confidence and supply and the rotation of the office of An Taoiseach. Just as the political arrangements of government have changed and evolved over time, so too have the Dáil's Standing Orders since they were first adopted in 1922. They are updated and amended almost always at the start of each term of the Dáil, and it is only right and proper that we reflect on amendments that are needed to ensure all Members rights are respected in the changing shape and composition of each Dáil.
At the time of the last general election, it is fair to say that Ireland bucked international trends by returning a result which, relatively quickly, allowed a majority of Members of our national Parliament to form a stable Government made up by Fine Gael and Fianna Fáil with the support of Independent TDs.
5:15 am
Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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I want to put on the record of this House that it was also in good faith that we engaged constructively and respectfully in government formation talks with both the Labour Party and the Social Democrats, and I thank them for that engagement. I do not believe there are policy differences which we were not prepared to negotiate on, but obviously I respect the decisions of both these parties to not enter Government on this occasion. We must have a Government - a Government which functions effectively and in the interests of our people. That is the imperative after the people have their say on election day. That Government must then be accountable to Dáil Éireann, and we must move forward with the people's business in solving problems, finding solutions and passing and scrutinising important legislation in the Dáil, Seanad and Oireachtas committees. It is now surely incumbent on us all to get on with the work. It is my firm conviction that the message of the people from the last election and of people across Ireland in the last week is to stop shouting, roaring and hollering at each other, to turn up for work and to get on with the job. We need to see delivery in so many areas.
Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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Before the Deputies shout at me, maybe they should wait to hear my next sentence, because I was about to say that I think and hope many in the Opposition share this view, that we should work together on the big issues of our time. We should work together on housing and on disability services.
David Cullinane (Waterford, Sinn Fein)
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You dismiss all of our solutions.
Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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That is what the public want to see. Shout me down if you wish, but that is what the public want.
David Cullinane (Waterford, Sinn Fein)
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I am not shouting you down.
Máire Devine (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
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He is not shouting you down.
David Cullinane (Waterford, Sinn Fein)
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You dismiss all of our solutions.
Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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It is time to listen to listen to each other. It is time to work in the best interests of the people who send us here and pay your wages and mine.
Aengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
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Interesting-----
Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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To meet the goals that we share, we must have a strong - it is not sounding great for cross-party co-operation, but anyway - and stable economy.
We stand here this afternoon on the precipice of a moment of extraordinary economic turbulence globally. We had a report last week from the ESRI, which estimated more than 80,000 jobs in the Irish economy could be at risk. There are people who got up this morning, regardless of who they voted for in the general election, who have gone out and done a day's work and are genuinely worried as they return home this evening. They are worried about the uncertainty in the economy, what tomorrow might bring and the impact it might have on their job, their family and their ability to pay the mortgage. Yet, against that very stark backdrop, we are standing in Dáil Éireann, not discussing that this evening-----
Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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-----but debating a confidence motion. Do not shout me down, again. Stop now.
Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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We are debating a confidence motion, one which everybody inside and outside this House knows will only have one outcome.
Aengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
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Very sensitive today.
Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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We know Sinn Féin has a record of putting party interests before national interest. I am sorry to see other Opposition parties going down that same populist route.
Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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At a time of crisis, this national parliament has a duty to show leadership to the country. I recall the unity we have found in this House in moments of crisis and economic challenge. We came together and pulled together during Covid-19 and the Brexit times. The context we now face is a potential global trade war, which will not be without consequence for Ireland. I have every confidence that this country will work its way through it, but it will require a co-ordinated and sustained effort in the vein of our response to Brexit. That is why this morning I updated Cabinet on the potential economic impact for our country ahead of the expected decision of President Trump to announce and introduce tariffs on EU counties, including Ireland, from as early as tomorrow. In advance of even seeing the detail, it is regrettable, because it seeks to fundamentally alter the trade relationship between the EU and the United States. It is regrettable because we know tariffs are bad for consumers. They push up the cost of doing business and the cost of goods, and we have built successful economies on both sides of this Atlantic Ocean on the basis of trading goods with each other.
Ireland will need to take a calm, measured and strategic approach. We will need to work in solidarity and unity with our European colleagues. We cannot control what President Trump does, but we can control what we control. We can use our influence to put forward Ireland's interests along with other member states. That is the work we need to do together.
Every single one of us, all 174 of us, were elected by the people to do a job and it is high time we got on with that job. We need to get the Oireachtas committees up and running so that the elected Members of this House can scrutinise legislation that may well be required, and, most importantly, can make recommendations on how to improve that legislation so we can have the best possible outcome.
The Leas-Cheann Comhairle will know this from his time as a Chair, in my experience, Oireachtas committees have always shown the best side of politics, where people do somewhat set aside their partisan differences and try to work together and tease through the issues. From my part, the part of my party and this Government, we want to work constructively with Deputies on all sides of the House. The Opposition knows that, because as recently as last week, while the shouting and roaring was going on this House, I invited leaders of the Opposition to come to a briefing with my Department officials specifically on the issue of trade and tariffs, suggested by Deputy Bacik. We will be providing further updates on a regular basis as we need to pull together. This is a moment. The hard reality is dawning. The time for shouting, whooping and hollering is over. We need to put our shoulder to the wheel-----
Aengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
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What is the time?
Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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-----and we need to push in one direction. I want to work with everybody on all sides of this House. There is no monopoly on good ideas. We need constructive ideas and proposals.
I firmly believe that every politician who puts his or her name on a ballot paper and got elected to this House deserves to have his or her voice heard. Deciding to enter public life is not easy; it means long hours, time away from one's family and a high tolerance for criticism. Politics is probably the most denigrated profession in the country, and I have always felt this was unfair, because I firmly believe the vast majority of people enter public life for the right reasons. Every day, we are fortunate to come in to this House and represent, to the best of our ability, the public who elected us. We do so knowing that the atmosphere may become charged, debates may become difficult and party politics can sometimes take precedence.
However, there is another group of people who have the honour and responsibility of standing alongside us in this Chamber and this House, without whom this place would simply not function, namely, the Clerk of the Dáil, his team, the ushers in this House and the many officials who work in Leinster House. Last week, they went about their work with diligence and were subjected to a bitter and aggressive cacophony and an atmosphere of hostility and anger. It was utterly unacceptable and embarrassing, and I call on those who engaged in such behaviour to apologise to the staff of this House, who, in the words of the Clerk, endured a very "difficult" day. Separately, we had the appalling situation where ushers had to intervene between two Members of this House. It is not good enough; it is not what the people expect from us. We can disagree, but never should Dáil Éireann descend to the levels of disrespect and discourtesy which have been on display in recent times. We are letting ourselves collectively down.
The Ceann Comhairle was elected to do a job, without fear or favour. Not so long ago, the Opposition sought the Ceann Comhairle's intervention in a moment of dispute. She intervened and found in the Opposition's favour.
Pearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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Only after she found in Lowry's favour first.
Pearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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Just for the record, she found in Lowry's favour first-----
Máire Devine (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
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Spin, spin, spin.
Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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The Ceann Comhairle then oversaw a subsequent debate for 20 hours at a Dáil reform committee. A proposal was put to a vote at the committee. It was approved by a majority, which is how democracy works.
Paul Murphy (Dublin South West, Solidarity)
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Is that how democracy works?
Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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This time, the Opposition-----
Paul Murphy (Dublin South West, Solidarity)
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Is that all there is to democracy? Just majority rules? No minority rights whatsoever?
Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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This time, the Opposition did not like the result. What did it do? It comes for the Ceann Comhairle's head. This is straight out of a populist playbook. If you do not like the answer, attack a person's integrity and motive, and inevitably seek his or her head. Fine Gael has had differences with the Ceann Comhairle over the years - they are well documented - and I am sure we will again. However, we respect her mandate and the difficult job she has to do. This is a democracy. This is Dáil Éireann; it is our national Parliament. I hope, once and for all, when this confidence motion is voted on, the outcome of which is clear to the dogs on the street, we can get on with actually doing the business of serving the people of this country because there is no more time to waste.
Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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This motion of no confidence in the Ceann Comhairle is a response to a concerted and co-ordinated plan by Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael; a plan to run roughshod over the democratic rules of the Dáil for their own political gain.
Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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Last Tuesday, not alone did the Ceann Comhairle put herself at the centre of that Government plan, she led the charge.
Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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In an unprecedented, and frankly breathtaking display of bias, the person charged with safeguarding and preserving democracy in this House helped to tear it apart. The Ceann Comhairle actively and enthusiastically fulfilled the bidding and the aims of the Government, acting, not as the impartial Chair of the Dáil, but more like a loyal Minister under political instruction from the top.
Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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She was acting as the Government's Ceann Comhairle, signed, sealed and delivered by Michael Lowry. What we witnessed was an unrivalled partisan display.
The Ceann Comhairle forced through the Government agenda, showing blatant disrespect and contempt for the mandate of the combined Opposition. In forcing through the Government's plan, Verona Murphy took a wrecking ball to the long-established democratic procedures of the Dáil and ripped up the rule book that underpins its functioning. This marked a fundamental departure from established practice, making a mockery of the oath taken by the Ceann Comhairle on assuming office.
Political clashes, robust debate and raised temperatures are all part and parcel of parliamentary politics. We are all used to such battles in this Chamber. However, the Dáil has always functioned through agreement by ensuring that Opposition views, objections or dissent to the content of Dáil business is respectfully given its rightful place. This is not a mere technicality. This is fundamental to how Opposition holds the Government to account for its priorities, legislative agenda and its failures and shortfalls in addressing public need. It is also, crucially, how we endeavour to ensure political balance so that the Dáil does not become a token platform for the Government to railroad through its agenda but rather a place where those elected by the people exercise our duty to keep those in power in check through fair, honest and open debate. It is how accountability is ensured and the interests of the people are protected.
Last Tuesday, the Ceann Comhairle not only undermined that democratic understanding, she demolished it. In quick succession, she made three decisions exposing bias, doing things in her power and, frankly, outside of her power, to ram through the Government's objective of changing the rules of the Dáil to suit themselves. First, she failed to hold a vote to agree Dáil business when a vote was called. The call of "Vótáil" is clearly audible in the Oireachtas footage of proceedings, and a division should have been called as a result. However, the Ceann Comhairle ignored this call, dug in and proceeded to shut down the Opposition.
Second, the Ceann Comhairle chose to cancel Questions on Policy or Legislation. The claim that this decision was made because of continued disruption in the Dáil is demonstrably not true. The claim is clearly contradicted by the official Oireachtas video, which shows that at the resumption of business following a 30-minute suspension, there was no disruption in the Dáil. The Ceann Comhairle was simply hell-bent on rushing ahead to get the Government's plan over the line. Dáil business was dispensed with to achieve the Government's desired outcome.
Third, the Ceann Comhairle failed to put the Government motion to change Dáil rules to a vote. Such was the haste to pass the Government motion, the Ceann Comhairle inadvertently moved the Opposition amendment only. At no point did she put the Government's substantive motion to a formal vote. In her eagerness to get the job done for Micheál Martin, Simon Harris and Michael Lowry, the Ceann Comhairle declared the Government motion to be passed - a motion on which there was no vote. That is astonishing. All of this was done to cheers of approval and a chorus of encouragement from the Government benches. The only holy show on display was the shameless co-ordination and co-operation between the Ceann Comhairle and the Government. It was brazen, arrogant and on display for all to see.
All of this is very serious. Such behaviour was not seen in any previous Dáil. It is change for the worse and deeply destructive. It is a change designed and orchestrated by the Taoiseach and the Government. The failures of the Ceann Comhairle last week raised questions about the legitimacy and legal standing of the business conducted in the Dáil because the rules of the House have not been legitimately changed. Therefore, the farce of Other Members' Questions, scheduled to commence tomorrow, has no standing. The credibility of the Dáil and the democratic underpinnings of this Parliament have been undermined by the actions of the Ceann Comhairle at the behest of the Government. To ignore this reality would make a mockery of our mandate and take the people for fools.
The Ceann Comhairle's position is untenable. Surviving a vote on this motion will not change that fact. The role of Ceann Comhairle demands that whoever occupies the office be impartial, fair and independent. You cannot be a fair, impartial, independent chairperson of the Dáil, having thrown out the democratic rule book to force through whatever Fine Gael and Fianna Fáil want. If you cast aside the need for balance and the rights of the Opposition and our mandates, to do the bidding of Government, we in opposition would be doing the people of Ireland a grave disservice were we to lie down and accept such a farce. The actions of the Ceann Comhairle have been neither impartial nor independent; quite the opposite. The credibility of the Ceann Comhairle lies in tatters. She has lost the confidence of the Opposition. For the Ceann Comhairle to fulfil their duties, they must enjoy the confidence of both the Government and the Opposition. An Teachta Murphy does not and must go. Tá an Ceann Comhairle tar éis a léiriú lena gníomh nach bhfuil sí cothrom, neamhchlaonta nó neamhspleách. An tseachtain seo caite, chuir sí rialacha daonlathacha na Dála faoina cosa chun plean an Rialtais a chur i gcrích chun an socrú suarach leis an Teachta Lowry a chosaint. Tá praiseach déanta aici de mhuinín an Fhreasúra go léir. Caithfidh sí imeacht.
Cui bono? Who benefits? It must be remembered that all of this is rooted in the grubby deal struck between Micheál Martin, Simon Harris and Michael Lowry, a deal in which Deputy Lowry led and marshalled a group of so-called Independent TDs into the Fianna Fáil-Fine Gael camp to form a Government. The Lowry group of TDs negotiated, helped to write and agreed the programme for Government. Four of their number assumed ministerial office. They designated themselves as Government TDs by their own actions. The dogs on the street know that they are in the Government camp. The Taoiseach and the Tánaiste sought to orchestrate a delusion that they were members of the Opposition. We have said many times - I will say it again - that you simply cannot be in government and in opposition at the same time. However, this is the very farce that Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael want to ram through to protect their grubby deal with Michael Lowry. What is in this deal? The Taoiseach and Tánaiste have been very coy on this point, so we have to rely on Deputy Lowry himself to tell us, in his own words. This is what he had to say in an interview with Tipperary Livein January. He makes it clear that putting Verona Murphy in as Ceann Comhairle was key to the deal. He said:
I felt it was a good political move to make to put forward Verona Murphy as Ceann Comhairle, and that was really an important and decisive moment because I felt that once she was elected as Ceann Comhairle, and there had to be a lot of political manoeuvring to make that happen but once she was elected as Ceann Comhairle, then that put our regional group in the driving seat for discussions on the formation of a Government.
He went on to say:
I've been working, first of all to get Verona Murphy elected [as Ceann Comhairle], and then to prepare our group's policy position and policy platform in readiness for negotiations, and then we started negotiations, I was the lead negotiator with relation to that. I think we achieved a fantastic result for our group, in that we had a Ceann Comhairle, two Super Junior Ministers, and two Junior Ministers.
There you have it, direct from the horse's mouth. The grubby deal.
5:25 am
Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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There were also a raft of junior Ministers with big pay hikes, more super junior Ministers and, of course, the prized position of Ceann Comhairle to boot. Nobody with any respect for the position of Ceann Comhairle would ever have been party to such a disgraceful arrangement. A deal was struck by Micheál Martin and Simon Harris with Michael Lowry, a man whose actions the Moriarty tribunal found to be "profoundly corrupt to a degree that was nothing short of breathtaking".
5 o’clock
The Taoiseach once described him as a rogue politician and called on him to resign his seat, but he is now the kingmaker of this coalition. It is a grubby deal that places Michael Lowry's demands above even the democracy of the Dáil and the proper functioning of Parliament. It is a grubby deal that has been prioritised by this Government over the formation of Oireachtas committees, over the imperative to debate and pass laws, and over the need to address big issues affecting workers and families.
All of this might again beg the question; what does Michael Lowry have over Micheál Martin-----
5:35 am
Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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-----or Simon Harris, for that matter? What debt is owed to him that the Taoiseach is willing to tear down the integrity of the Dáil just to keep him sweet? We know that providing him with access to the main platform where the Opposition holds Government to account was part of this grubby deal. Tomorrow, the Government plans the ludicrous spectacle of Lowry group of TDs standing up after Leaders' Questions to question the Government that they support and they designed and delivered. Of course, Micheál Martin was adamant that this was about ensuring fair speaking time for Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael backbenchers. That bubble has truly burst. This is not about backbenchers. It never was. This is about Michael Lowry. The reality is the Lowry group of TDs get four times more speaking time than Fianna Fáil backbenchers. Just as Micheál Martin spent his first term as Taoiseach throwing Fianna Fáil Ministers under the bus to protect his deal with Fine Gael, in his second term he now throws Fianna Fáil backbenchers under the bus to protect his grubby deal with Michael Lowry.
Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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The Taoiseach has claimed that the Dáil will never be the same again. I agree, but that is not because the Opposition is standing our ground. It is because of his underhanded manoeuvres to rig the Dáil and stack the Opposition in his favour. That is the threat faced here, which certainly has some resonance with events elsewhere in the world.
If people ever wonder why Governments come and go but nothing really improves for working people, they have their answer here in a nutshell. The insider deals and the cosy club are the reason so many people cannot afford a roof over their heads, our hospitals are overcrowded and overwhelmed, children with special needs are locked out of services and education, and families struggle to make ends meet. These deals preserve the status quo and ensure that workers and families are pushed to the back of the queue.
This is the deal that the Ceann Comhairle moved heaven and earth to defend last Tuesday. It is the very deal that secured her position. The reality is that it was Michael Lowry who ensured she would become Ceann Comhairle. In her acceptance speech, an Teachta Murphy openly acknowledged Michael Lowry's efforts, identifying him as the person who first approached her to seek the office of Ceann Comhairle. Despite deep reservations, she was given a fair wind when she assumed that office, but last Tuesday our worst fears were realised. She became the Government's Ceann Comhairle. Michael Lowry gave two fingers to the Irish people; we will not accept the Ceann Comhairle doing the same. The Ceann Comhairle is not fair, impartial or independent and cannot stay. The Ceann Comhairle must go.
Ivana Bacik (Dublin Bay South, Labour)
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The office of Ceann Comhairle has been dragged into a mess of the Government’s making. The Ceann Comhairle's position has become untenable because of a deal between the Government and Michael Lowry and his group. The big question is why. Why is the Government willing to go to such lengths to facilitate Mr. Lowry? Why does it insist that someone can be in government and in opposition at the same time, all for Mr. Lowry? None of us knows why. Mr. Lowry is certainly not saying. He is showing everyone the two fingers. None of us knows what is in the secret, grubby deal the Government negotiated with Michael Lowry, but we know it included the very office of Ceann Comhairle, so here we are at this impasse.
This is the last thing any of us in the Labour Party wanted. Throughout my career, I have been proud to work constructively and collaboratively. That is what Labour Party activists do in the Dáil, the Seanad and the European Parliament, and on our councils and in our communities. We use our voices to raise the issues that matter on housing, healthcare, climate, jobs and the cost of living. On the eve of Trump’s tariffs and with the threat of a global Trump slump, this is a time to work constructively to address these issues. I am glad we have been able to do that over the past few weeks but undoubtedly much attention has been focused on the ludicrous Lowry affair. Regrettably, it has culminated in the dragging into the picture of the Ceann Comhairle’s office.
We in Labour worked hard to find a resolution to this from the start. The Taoiseach has left the Chamber, but he will recall that I approached him and the Tánaiste very early on in the process, directly here in the Chamber, seeking to find a resolution. This was rejected by both the Taoiseach and the Tánaiste initially. I am glad that all the leaders of all the parties then came together. We reached an agreement in good faith, which was read into the Dáil record by the former Government Chief Whip, Hildegarde Naughton. It stated that the Government would work to secure agreement on this matter acceptable to Government and Opposition. Who reneged on that deal? It was not the Labour Party or any other Opposition party. It was the Government.
A number of concerns arise as a result of the ramming through of the change to Standing Orders that the Government insisted on proposing. First, we see an unacceptable outcome, where the Lowry lads and lassie are now to be regarded as being on both sides of the fence, in a cynical manner occupying both Government and Opposition benches and, in some cases, moving to and fro among benches. Second, the Government sought to create this shame set piece. We will see it tomorrow in the new Other Members’ Questions slot, which is a sort of theatrical Government TDs’ parliamentary party meeting in public. A parliamentary party meeting in private-----
Paul McAuliffe (Dublin North-West, Fianna Fail)
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They are not in our parliamentary party.
Ivana Bacik (Dublin Bay South, Labour)
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-----would certainly be a lot more critical of Ministers than we are likely to see tomorrow. Finally, we saw the Government and Ceann Comhairle ramming through changes last week in a way that was simply not acceptable.
The attitude of the Taoiseach throughout this saga has been deeply frustrating. He has become increasingly tetchy in patronising Opposition leaders, accusing us of subverting democracy and, today, even of being arsonists. He gets deeply offended if we question his motivations and insists this is about a change to benefit Government backbenchers and give them more speaking time, but the reality is Government backbenchers will lose out. Other Members' Questions is being introduced at the expense of Taoiseach's Questions on a Wednesday, a slot that is now, as we saw today, being used by backbenchers lobbying for a junior Ministry who are queueing up to tell the Taoiseach how great he is and what a great job he is doing.
The Taoiseach has changed his view on Dáil reform. He went through some selective memories about the Labour Party. Let me remind him that, in 2016, after the February general election, he made Dáil reform a condition of Government formation, saying there should be a "Major limit on [the] ability of government to control all business on an ongoing basis." At the time, Fianna Fáil produced a paper on Dáil reform stating: "freeing the Oireachtas from the absolute control of government is the single most important reform which is required." How things have changed. What has the Taoiseach done? He has got a secret deal with the Lowry group and all these great principles have gone out the window. He has overturned decades of parliamentary precedent and created a noxious environment.
The Taoiseach wants to attack the Labour Party because we happen to agree with all the other parties in opposition on this issue. This attack is unwarranted. Other parties have their own histories, but I am proud to lead a party that has, for more than a century, worked to uphold the highest standards in public office. We have an unbroken record of holding ourselves to the highest ethical standards. The Taoiseach cannot say the same of his own party. When it comes to ethics, it is not the Labour Party that has negotiated a deal with a convicted offender who has been named by a tribunal as "profoundly corrupt". Members of Lowry’s own group will not even sit beside him, but Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael will stop at nothing to defend him and his deal.
Regrettably, the Ceann Comhairle's office has been drawn into this. The Ceann Comhairle should enjoy bipartisan support. Under Standing Orders, she must apply the rules in an impartial and fair manner but last Tuesday, she deemed the Order of Business passed without a vote, despite clear objections from Opposition benches. In other words, she caused business to be carried out without a legitimate democratic basis and went on to ensure that the Standing Order change was rammed through in a highly contested process. For that reason, and with deep regret, the Labour Party now considers her position is no longer tenable. That is why we signed the amendment to this motion and why we will vote accordingly. As democrats, once that vote is held, we will of course accept its outcome. The Government may win the vote but we have won the argument. People see through this farce. The responsibility for that lies with the Government. This will be the lasting legacy of Micheál Martin on Dáil reform: a noxious environment in the Chamber; a breakdown in relationships; and two fingers from Michael Lowry.
The well of goodwill has been well and truly poisoned and all efforts to reach a resolution in good faith were rebuffed by Government. This is a mess of the Government's making.
5:45 am
Ciarán Ahern (Dublin South West, Labour)
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It is a disheartening thing to see a stroke happen in real time in front of our eyes in this Chamber. It is a disheartening thing to have to speak on a motion of confidence in the Ceann Comhairle at all but particularly so early in this Dáil term and in my own Dáil career. This motion, this issue of confidence before us today, goes back to my very first day as a TD in Dáil Éireann last December and the deal arranged between this Government and Michael Lowry.
Mairéad FarrellCiarán Ahern (Dublin South West, Labour)
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In return for support in good times and bad the Ceann Comhairle was appointed from among the ranks of Independent TDs led by Deputy Lowry and other goodies were bestowed on his followers, including junior Ministries, deputy Whip responsibilities, goodies for particular constituencies and an open door with Ministers. It is entirely regrettable that the office of the Ceann Comhairle has been used as a bargaining chip in these Government formation negotiations. Indeed, the quid pro quo regarding the Ceann Comhairle was sealed with Michael Lowry and voted on in this House at the same time as the Government was purporting to speak with the Labour Party and others in opposition about possible Government formation. It was a joke and that made it abundantly clear to us that the Government had no genuine intention of anything other than doing a deal with Michael Lowry.
As we all know, the State has spent vast sums investigating the corrupt dealings of the Ceann Comhairle's political patron. He has received a mandate - we do not dispute that - but that mandate does not whitewash his past or mean that we can or should ignore the Moriarty tribunal finding that he engaged in profound corruption to a degree nothing short of breathtaking. Nor should we ignore his resignation in disgrace as a Minister and member of Fine Gael; or ignore the all-party, uncontested motion passed by this House that he is not fit for office and should resign as a TD. Nor should we ignore the words of the Taoiseach, with whom he has negotiated this grubby deal, that Michael Lowry is an insidious and pervasive influence who engaged in a cynical and venal abuse of office. This is someone who has had to enter into tax settlements with the Revenue regarding businesses he runs; and someone who has engaged in SLAPP - strategic litigation against public participation - seeking to use his wealth to silence dissenting voices through the courts when they call him out on his corruption.
What does this say to the Irish public? It says, "Hey kids, don't worry, you can do what you want. Be as corrupt and as unaccountable as you want. Engage in tax fraud. Brazen it out for a few years. Deny, deny, deny. Never apologise. Never engage in any self-reflection, and God help us, don't even consider any self-improvement." It means you can waltz back into power and control of this country aided and abetted by a Government and other Independent politicians who clearly do not give a damn about corruption and standards in politics. They will welcome you back into the fold under the guise of political pragmatism.
It is not lost on us that today is April Fools' Day, nor that yesterday saw the beginnings of a worldwide far right campaign to say Marine Le Pen should suffer no consequences for the finding of corruption against her. This Government is trying to take the Irish public for fools but the public sees through this political stroke. Rehabilitating Michael Lowry and ignoring the very serious findings against him is an act of choice by this Government and follows the grim line of denial of accountability internationally.
We in the Labour Party and across the Opposition are righteously angry at the Government's grubby deal with Michael Lowry that saw the Ceann Comhairle appointed and logic turned on its head by Government-supporting TDs being allowed to pretend to be in
opposition so they can perform on social media. The deal demeans this House and our body politic. It demeans and undermines the office and independence of the Ceann Comhairle. The naked politicisation of the role of Ceann Comhairle leads those of us in opposition, naturally, to suspect the Ceann Comhairle will act in a partisan manner to support the Government in order to support her own position. We gave the Ceann Comhairle the benefit of the doubt from the start, but the manner in which the business of this House-----
John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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Deputy, please conclude.
Ciarán Ahern (Dublin South West, Labour)
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-----was conducted last Tuesday fatally undermined our confidence in her and it is with deep regret I say that. I hope the Ceann Comhairle will reflect on this vote in a manner in which her political patron is seemingly incapable of-----
John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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Deputy, please conclude.
Ciarán Ahern (Dublin South West, Labour)
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-----but I do not hold out much hope of that, given that she has not even turned up tonight. We will oppose the motion.
Paschal Donohoe (Dublin Central, Fine Gael)
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You cannot on one hand stand up and make the case for the value of the rules of this House and at the same time attempt to shout them down.
Paschal Donohoe (Dublin Central, Fine Gael)
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You cannot do that. You cannot on one hand talk about the value of the procedures of this House but be involved in heckling those who seek to implement them. You cannot talk about respect for the office of the Ceann Comhairle but at the same time look to abuse her and the way she has performed her functions. Finally, you cannot make the case for the importance of the orderly functioning of democracy and attempt on two different occasions to disrupt that orderly functioning in the way this country has not seen and in the way this House has not seen.
That is at the heart of the fundamental inconsistency of the Opposition today. On one hand, it stands up and talks about the value of order and the value of procedure but at the same time it is the same Opposition members who have taken to their feet on two different occasions, in a way that is without precedent in the history of this Dáil, to disrupt its behaviour. You cannot do both at once.
Thomas Gould (Cork North-Central, Sinn Fein)
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You are doing it.
Paschal Donohoe (Dublin Central, Fine Gael)
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You cannot ride both horses together.
Thomas Gould (Cork North-Central, Sinn Fein)
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You are doing it.
Máire Devine (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
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You are doing it yourselves.
Paschal Donohoe (Dublin Central, Fine Gael)
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I noted what Deputy McDonald said earlier on, and again this is the behaviour. The same people who are only too happy to heckle and disrupt this House are the same people who stand up and make charges against this Government. Earlier on, Deputy McDonald said the Government, or indeed the Ceann Comhairle, was involved in behaviour to tear democracy apart. Really?
Paschal Donohoe (Dublin Central, Fine Gael)
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When you see the behaviour taking place elsewhere in the world that has that affect-----
Pearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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It is worse than three votes that did not happen.
Paschal Donohoe (Dublin Central, Fine Gael)
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-----how can you talk about the behaviour in the House in a way that is consistent with that? Deputy McDonald alleged the Ceann Comhairle demolished the rules of this House. Really?
Paschal Donohoe (Dublin Central, Fine Gael)
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How can you substantiate that? Perhaps, most chillingly-----
Paschal Donohoe (Dublin Central, Fine Gael)
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-----Deputy McDonald went on to say that the Ceann Comhairle's position is untenable-----
Paschal Donohoe (Dublin Central, Fine Gael)
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-----and the outcome of the vote does not change that.
I do not happen to agree with Deputy Murphy too often but in his brief appearance earlier he put the question that there is more to democracy than majority rule and he is, of course, correct. A vital element of all of that is respect for rules, adherence to rules and adherence to them even when you might not agree.
Paschal Donohoe (Dublin Central, Fine Gael)
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That is the bedrock upon which constitutional democracy in our State should function and while there are issues we will debate over time, to stand over here, to contest there is behaviour under way where the Ceann Comhairle has not been impartial-----
John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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Minister, your time is up.
Paschal Donohoe (Dublin Central, Fine Gael)
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-----does a disservice to the traditions that have served this State well.
Jack Chambers (Dublin West, Fianna Fail)
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As we debate this motion, Ireland faces huge economic threats and Government is extensively planning for the impact of tariffs on the Irish economy, jobs and competitiveness. This should be the prime focus of all Members on all sides of the House.
Matt Carthy (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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Was it was not the agreement?
Jack Chambers (Dublin West, Fianna Fail)
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Instead, we have found ourselves in this never-ending debate on speaking rights which has been defined by vitriol, barracking, anger, obstruction and a complete disregard and disrespect for the Ceann Comhairle and her office. There has been blocking of the election of a Taoiseach and the attempt to obstruct votes and shut down business. The attempts to shout down the Ceann Comhairle which have taken place in recent weeks is an attempt to shift Ireland to a really destructive and divisive politics.
As a former Government Chief Whip during the last term, I always valued how we worked together at the Business Committee to try to build consensus in the House where we could. It is incumbent on all of us to work together to urgently restore a collegiate and constructive approach. During the last term we often disagreed but we were always able to find a way forward on many of the issues. We know that, through engagement, that is possible when it comes to all of the respective parties and groupings. I think Opposition Whips need to reflect on this. It is incumbent on all of us to work urgently to restore what was there previously in the public interest. We urgently need to establish the Oireachtas committees to have pre-legislative scrutiny on many of the legislative priorities, which is an important piece of parliamentary democracy. We need to give committees and all Members across the House an opportunity to play an active and constructive role and to work collaboratively.
Pure opposition politics should not trump the public interest and we need to urgently restore mutual respect in this House. We need to restore respect for the office of the Ceann Comhairle, Deputy Verona Murphy-----
Jack Chambers (Dublin West, Fianna Fail)
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-----who has simply tried to apply the rules and procedures agreed by this House in good faith.
The economic threats we face require all of us to work together on behalf of the people in the interest. Today's vote needs to mark a turning point. We need a concerted effort to refocus and return to a more constructive, collaborative approach in the series economic challenges we will face as a country.
Máire Devine (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
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Now that you got your own way.
5:55 am
Patrick O'Donovan (Limerick County, Fine Gael)
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For today's vote on the Ceann Comhairle to be warranted, one would have imagined that she would have done something wrong last week. I was sitting in this seat, close to the Ceann Comhairle - the only other person in front was the Taoiseach - so I had the benefit of hearing the Chief Whip, the Taoiseach in his efforts to try to be heard and the Ceann Comhairle throughout all of it. The only people who could not hear what the Ceann Comhairle was saying were the people who were roaring and shouting at her in a scene that resembled something in Harcourt Street at 3 o'clock or 4 o'clock in the morning. Fair play to you, lads. She was right. You were an absolute, total and utter disgrace - grown men for the most part, roaring and shouting at a constitutional officer.
Of course, they never wanted her so, it is no surprise that they tabled a motion of no confidence in her. This is playing out the election right from the start. We had all of the difficulties after the election trying to form a Government. Some people wanted in, some people did not really want to be in and some people felt being in opposition was the most comfortable place they could find. Then we had the Leader of the Opposition saying that this was going to be opposition on all fronts right from the get-go.
The people who most disappoint in this are the Labour Party.
Patrick O'Donovan (Limerick County, Fine Gael)
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Just let me finish.
George Lawlor (Wexford, Labour)
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You threw him out of your party.
Patrick O'Donovan (Limerick County, Fine Gael)
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You had a good run last week. Of all parties, Labour should remember what was done to its former leader, Joan Burton, another woman who held a constitutional officer position and who herself had to confront behaviour not too dissimilar from what we saw-----
Máire Devine (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
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We are asking the question------
Patrick O'Donovan (Limerick County, Fine Gael)
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Deputy Devine will have her chance in a minute. It was not too dissimilar from what happened in this Chamber last week. All our parties are trying to encourage women into politics, but all of a sudden, the united leader of the Opposition has emerged and the Labour Party just joined in as a kind of silent little lamb. In the process of doing that-----
Patrick O'Donovan (Limerick County, Fine Gael)
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Deputy Bacik today gave a great oration-----
Alan Kelly (Tipperary North, Labour)
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Can you even hear yourself?
Patrick O'Donovan (Limerick County, Fine Gael)
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-----about the importance of Ireland having a clear position with regard to trade and our position in the world. What have the Labour Party and other parties in here done? They have withdrawn pairs. Today's vote was always inevitable-----
Ivana Bacik (Dublin Bay South, Labour)
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Yes, because of Lowry.
Patrick O'Donovan (Limerick County, Fine Gael)
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-----because they could not accept the reality that a Government had been formed and we wanted to get on and govern. The main party opposite could never accept that-----
Patrick O'Donovan (Limerick County, Fine Gael)
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-----and now we have the two centre-left parties just coming along like mud flaps.
George Lawlor (Wexford, Labour)
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You threw him out of your party.
James Lawless (Kildare North, Fianna Fail)
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We stand on a precipice. The world is burning and the barbarians are at the gate. We face multiple existential crises. We have instability in the Middle East, war in Ukraine and climate change. Trade wars will start tomorrow, with tariffs posing threats to the global economy.
James Lawless (Kildare North, Fianna Fail)
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Tomorrow, we will see the threats becoming real. In this House, we watched aghast as Boris Johnson and the Brexiteers prorogued parliament, when they suspended the people's assembly, denying that parliamentary procedure could take place. We watched in horror on 6 January 2021 when the Capitol rioters stormed Washington DC to stop the election results being ratified. We never thought we would see it in this House. We never thought we would see it in our own democracy. How apt it is that, on April Fools' Day, the people who say they want to have a serious debate waste yet another opportunity by spending an afternoon dealing with this sort of farce when serious issues consume us.
Paul Murphy (Dublin South West, Solidarity)
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This is the Government's motion.
James Lawless (Kildare North, Fianna Fail)
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We are talking about eight minutes of speaking time.
Paul Murphy (Dublin South West, Solidarity)
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No, we are not. It is more like 70 minutes.
James Lawless (Kildare North, Fianna Fail)
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Across the floor, we see three groups. We see the "Shout 'em down Shinners", yet again agitating, barracking anybody or anything that stands in their way. I fundamentally believe they cannot accept the outcome of the election. They could not accept the outcome of the one before that either-----
James Lawless (Kildare North, Fianna Fail)
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-----because, in 2020, they went on a world tour proclaiming that they had actually won the election despite the fact that they did not command a majority of the House. They lost the next election in 2024. The "most effective Opposition history the State" - it was certainly the most hyped Opposition history of State - also had the greatest drop in support in the history the State of any Opposition party when it fell by 5.5 percentage points, the greatest in half a century.
Cathy Bennett (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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Better than Fine Gael.
James Lawless (Kildare North, Fianna Fail)
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We move on to Sinn Féin's junior partners on the benches beside it and we will look at the Labour Party-----
James Lawless (Kildare North, Fianna Fail)
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-----which is once again in thrall to a militant tendency that has retaken the Labour Party,-----
James Lawless (Kildare North, Fianna Fail)
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-----a party that was rooted in principle but ran away from government. At the first opportunity before an RTÉ microphone when the last votes were still being counted, the Labour Party declared it wanted nothing to do with government.
Alan Kelly (Tipperary North, Labour)
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You were not in the room.
James Lawless (Kildare North, Fianna Fail)
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What is the point in going before the people with the manifesto if you have no interest in implementing it?
Mark WallJames Lawless (Kildare North, Fianna Fail)
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Then we have the "Social Media Democrats". As its own recently resigned member-----
James Lawless (Kildare North, Fianna Fail)
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As its own recently resigned member, David McGinn, said recently, it is a fundamentally unserious party. Those are not my words, but his. This is a serious crisis and we need serious players. The Government provides that seriousness.
John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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Order, please.
Emer Higgins (Dublin Mid West, Fine Gael)
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I rise to my feet today, not in support of a particular individual, but in support of the sanctity of an office that upholds the most important thing any sovereign nation has: its democracy. We in this Chamber elected in a fair and free vote Deputy Verona Murphy as Ceann Comhairle of the Thirty-fourth Dáil and as the first ever female Ceann Comhairle in the history of the State.
Emer Higgins (Dublin Mid West, Fine Gael)
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Last week, we in this Chamber took a vote and if that vote were to be taken again, the outcome would be the same. Respecting outcomes of votes is the very basis for a functioning democracy.
The Ceann Comhairle has only sat in that Chair for 23 Dáil sitting days and in that time, we have had two days of chaos, obstruction, ugliness and disrespect, and the exact opposite of a fair wind. That cannot and should not become the norm because dignity and respect in the workplace have to extend to this Chamber.
Emer Higgins (Dublin Mid West, Fine Gael)
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Dramatics do not help our country and do not help our people. Opposition politics cannot just be about headlines. They also have to be about the country and the nation's interest. It has never been more important to buckle down and get working on behalf of the people of Ireland to protect our stability, our jobs in the face of potential tariffs, the taxes that support our most vulnerable - our older people and children and those in need of healthcare and disability services - and our country's future. Despite the Opposition's best efforts to destabilise Government, Ministers have been working to deliver on our programme for Government commitments and to protect those jobs and our economy in the face of global uncertainty. What we have not been able to do is come before Oireachtas committees, which is something that so many of our backbenchers and I are keen to get established.
Aengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
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It is the Government's fault.
Emer Higgins (Dublin Mid West, Fine Gael)
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I fully support the mandate of our newly and duly elected Ceann Comhairle to get a 24th Dáil day sitting in that Chair and to continue to carry on her democratic duties to ensure the functioning of this Dáil Chamber, as is the democratic duty of all of us.
Pádraig Mac Lochlainn (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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The journalist of long-standing, Sam Smyth, wrote a really powerful article for The Currency. If Members have not read it, they all should. At the end of that piece, he wrote: "Lowry broke a sacred trust with the Irish people as a government minister, as was repeatedly highlighted by the Moriarty Tribunal." Yet after all this history, Lowry has re-emerged on the political stage as a would-be kingmaker. Mary Lou McDonald read into the record the comments of Michael Lowry to "Tipperary Live" where he boasted that he had singularly negotiated the elevation of Verona Murphy to the position of Ceann Comhairle. Micheál Martin was absolutely determined that the only partner he would have with Fine Gael would be Michael Lowry and his Independents. He was not one bit interested in the talks with the Labour Party or the Social Democrats. He was doggedly determined that it would be Michael Lowry and his team. This is how we got this absolute mess that we are in.
The Ceann Comhairle thanked Michael Lowry for putting her in place but she also read out this declaration. She said: "I will apply the rules as laid down by this House in an impartial and fair manner." Any citizen who watches the video on the Oireachtas website can write down word for word what he or she hears and know what he or she sees. Any citizen looking at the Order of Business that day will see it was rammed through? Clearly, a vote was called. It is crystal clear. The Ceann Comhairle then came back after a suspension and declared that, under Standing Orders, she was scrapping questions on promised legislation and indeed a Bill proposed by a Government TD. She just declared it was going. There was no huge uproar. It was when she said that that the uproar ensued. Just look at the video; it cannot be contested.
However, the most serious part of all is the motion itself - the motion to amend the Standing Orders. It is crystal clear that in her absolute haste to do the Government's bidding, she actually passed an amendment to the motion. I challenge anybody in this House to watch that video, to write down what he or she hears and tell me anything different.
You know that motion was not passed. You know that a wrecking ball was driven through the Standing Orders, all to get your way and to see through the deal by Michael Lowry. I think of Sam Smyth who was brave enough to take on Michael Lowry, with his own livelihood challenged in a court of law. He tells his story. Shame on you for elevating Michael Lowry as a king maker. Shame on you for putting his nomination into the Chair and driving a wrecking ball through our Standing Orders. You know it is wrong. Do not lecturer us on morality when you do that.
6:05 am
Cian O'Callaghan (Dublin Bay North, Social Democrats)
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The delay in setting up committees is completely on the Government side. We have been waiting months for the Government to bring forward proposals to establish committees. It must bring forward those proposals to the Dáil reform committee for committees to be established. It should have been done months ago. We have been asking for this be done for this to be done. There is no excuse for delays. To be very clear, last week at the Business Committee the Social Democrats asked for time this week to debate tariffs. That was not agreed and it was voted down again on the Order of Business today. This week in the Dáil we should be putting in time on the key issue of tariffs and Ireland's response.
This is the first time in the history of the State that the Dáil has debated a confidence motion in the Ceann Comhairle. I regret that this unprecedented motion is taking place today. We have been led to this impasse by a Government intent on bulldozing democratic norms to get a grubby deal with a corrupt politician over the line. This is the essence of why we are here.
Last Tuesday as the Dáil descended into chaos one person sat there smiling and laughing. Michael Lowry was triumphant and why would he not be. He got exactly what he wanted. He got one of his group elected as Ceann Comhairle. He got another four appointed as junior Ministers, including two super juniors. He secured Opposition leader speaking rights. He got influence over how public money in the national development plan and the HSE capital plan will be allocated. All of this for a politician who was found by the Moriarty tribunal to be "profoundly corrupt to a degree that was nothing short of breathtaking".
Those on the Government benches would clearly prefer to forget the findings of the Moriarty tribunal but they bear repeating. It found that Lowry, then Minister for communications, delivered the State's second mobile phone licence for the businessman Denis O'Brien. It said that O'Brien later sought to confer material benefit on Lowry. It also found that O'Brien transferred £477,000 to various Lowry controlled accounts and supported Lowry in obtaining a £420,000 bank loan. Lowry also tried to use his influence to double the rental value of a building part-owned by businessman Ben Dunne. The building was leased to the then State-owned Telecom Éireann. In effect, the Minister of the day was attempting to gouge a State company he oversaw. If this attempt had succeeded it would have doubled the value of Dunne's building from £5.4 million to £12.75 million, which would be a nice little earner. There was also the £34,500 that Lowry pocketed which had been designated by Dunne's as Christmas bonuses for his workers. Judge Michael Moriarty said this was one of Lowry's "most reprehensible" actions.
Lowry does not like the findings of the tribunal being reported and discussed. He personally sued journalist Sam Smyth for defamation for stating that Lowry had been "caught with his hand in the till". This action was notable because Lowry declined to sue the media organisations that published the comments and instead went after Smyth alone in a vindictive attempt to ruin the journalist whose reporting had first revealed his dodgy dealings. Ultimately this attempt failed with the High Court reiterating Lowry's documented tax fraud and the dig outs he received from business friends.
Nearly 14 years ago exactly, on the 29 March 2011, Micheál Martin told the Dáil that Fianna Fáil accepted the Moriarty tribunal findings. Back then he called on Michael Lowry to resign his Dáil seat. Today Micheál Martin and Simon Harris are part of the re-establishment of Michael Lowry, putting him at the heart of their Government and bending over backwards to make him happy. Those are the facts.
It did not have to be like this. Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael should have shown Michael Lowry the door. Instead, within weeks of the election, they identified Lowry as their preferred coalition partner. The first manifestation of this was the election of the Ceann Comhairle on 18 December. The office of Ceann Comhairle should never have been gifted as part of this deal. It undermined years of Dáil reform and opened up the office to charges of bias. The introduction of the secret ballot was to ensure the office of Ceann Comhairle would be truly independent. It was also to ensure that the Ceann Comhairle had the confidence of both the Government and the Opposition. The Taoiseach and the Tánaiste, however, did not hesitate in scuppering this. The instruction to Government backbenchers to vote for an agreed candidate undermined this important reform and so Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael cut a deal with a convicted tax cheat and crooked politician.
Incredibly, even now Micheál Martin and Simon Harris deny there is any deal done with Lowry. I accept there may be no written agreement and nothing transparent but clearly a deal has been done. Lowry has stated that he will exercise influence over the national development plan and the HSE capital plan. How public money is allocated in these multi-billion euro plans will have a very real impact on people's lives. Special treatment for one constituency means deserving projects in other areas will not be funded. When it comes to the HSE capital plan this can literally mean the difference between life and death. There should be no ambiguity about this, no nod, no winks, and no deals behind closed doors. The Taoiseach, who has left the Chamber-----
Cian O'Callaghan (Dublin Bay North, Social Democrats)
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-----should answer the following questions. What influence will Michael Lowry have in the allocation of public money in the national development plan and the HSE capital plan? How will this influence be exercised? Will there be special treatment for requests from Michael Lowry? This is public money. We need transparency. The public has a right to know.
The independence of the office of the Ceann Comhairle was the first on the chopping block as part of the Lowry deal but speaking rights quickly followed. Michael Lowry was clear from the outset that he would get Opposition leader speaking rights and that is exactly what Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael have delivered for him. Last week they broke their promise and rammed this through the Dáil.
However, we expected fair procedures from the Ceann Comhairle. Since her appointment the Social Democrats have worked with the Ceann Comhairle in good faith. Today I want to stress that we do not want to personalise this but we cannot ignore what happened. A vote was called on the Order of Business but that was ignored. That is a fundamental breach of the democratic process. There have been claims that calls for a vote were not audible given the din in the Chamber. However, there is a vote on the Order of Business nearly every week. Is anyone seriously suggesting that the Opposition looked happy last week with the Order of Business? Anyone simply glancing at the turmoil on the Opposition benches would have known that last week's business was not agreed. This was abundantly clear. Anyone looking back at videos of the Dáil proceedings can clearly hear a very audible "Votáil". This is what is at issue. It is for this reason the Social Democrats, with regret, do not have confidence in the Ceann Comhairle.
Ultimately, it is the Taoiseach and the Tánaiste who put the Ceann Comhairle in this position. All their talk about the importance of greater oversight and transparency has been revealed to be a sham. Support for Dáil reform was only ever temporary. It suited Fianna Fáil after the economic crash when it was trying to rehabilitate itself. It suited Micheál Martin to use Dáil reform as cover for the confidence and supply arrangement he did with Fine Gael, which paved the way for the coalition of the Civil War parties.
Reform is being abandoned now for a politician found to be profoundly corrupt. Fianna Fáil is back on the top floor with all the arrogance of the past and this, it seems, is all that matters. It seems that the humility Fianna Fáil learned after the crash was merely temporary. The hubris and arrogance that helped collapse the economy is back. Even the tax breaks for developers seem to be making a comeback.
We need a different approach and a more collaborative and constructive Dáil. The challenges the country faces are too big for things simply to become more and more polarised.
How this Dáil works is in need of deep reform. This must be done by agreement on a cross-party basis. I believe the Taoiseach and Tánaiste have made a mistake by going down this divisive route. However, despite this, the Social Democrats will not waver in its belief that in politics we need more co-operation, not less, more constructive engagement and, crucially, more accountability.
6:15 am
Mary Butler (Waterford, Fianna Fail)
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I welcome the opportunity to express my confidence in the Ceann Comhairle. Fairness as a politician is essential. What we see today is not fairness. There is no fairness to what the Office of the Ceann Comhairle represents and no fairness to the Ceann Comhairle, only verbal abuse, bullying and permanent outrage. What we witnessed last week would not be tolerated in any workforce or workplace. The pictures circulated that tell the story are pure embarrassing.
What we are seeing from the parties opposite today are grandstanding, a populist stunt and opportunism. They seem to think that confidence in the Ceann Comhairle is a selection at a pick and mix sweet display. Just a few weeks ago, they were all more than happy to express confidence in the Ceann Comhairle when her ruling on the Regional Independent Group suited them. Now they believe that because a decision did not go their way, they can put the confidence back into display and choose no confidence instead. With all the challenges facing our country, the parties opposite choose to grandstand on this.
What we have witnessed from the combined Opposition, led by the Sinn Féin troops and aided by serial hard left, is a situation where, unless the minority on the other side of the House is in agreement, we get not total opposition but attempts at chaos, disruption and bullying, and made-up complete untruths about nods and winks and even thumbs up.
Pearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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I do not think the Deputy did do the thumbs-up.
Mary Butler (Waterford, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputies opposite believe they have a veto. Let me say there is no such veto. We all fought an election and the people had their say. We came together on this side of the House to form a Government and those opposite tried to disrupt the process and lost. We put forward modest changes to Standing Orders to ensure everyone's mandate in the Dáil would be respected.
Máire Devine (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
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Is the Minister of State not embarrassed?
Mary Butler (Waterford, Fianna Fail)
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They objected to that. We put it to a vote and they lost.
Sinn Féin has a chequered view of the ballot box and it really only plays second fiddle to its agenda. Its stated objective is to undermine the Dáil and Government and create mayhem. We know of its lack of loyalty to the institutions of the State.
Máire Devine (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
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What about the grubby deal?
Mary Butler (Waterford, Fianna Fail)
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The Government is about respecting the rights of Deputies democratically elected to this Hous - all of them. We take our direction from the people, the people who voted for us last November urging us to form a Government and run the country. It is from the people that we take our orders, not from Belfast or anywhere else.
Pearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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Thumbs up, thumbs up, thumbs up.
Paul McAuliffe (Dublin North-West, Fianna Fail)
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At some point, the truth about the past number of weeks in this House will be written and it will show that from January onwards it became increasingly likely that a number of Independent TDs might support a coalition government. What many of us did not realise was that our own Standing Orders made no provision for such a grouping. In fact, they were entirely silent on the rights of TDs or parties that support the Executive. This should not have been a problem for the Government or the affected Independents alone; it was a challenge for us as an Oireachtas to resolve because in politics you often find yourself on the other side of the argument. However, instead of addressing the problem, the Opposition chose pantomime. It knew full well that there was no other mechanism for the technical group to be recognised, yet it shouted and screamed the slogan, "You can’t be in government and opposition". It was a slogan, not a solution, and it quickly became untrue. The Chair ruled clearly that the group of six Independents do not qualify as opposition under Standing Order 170. The Government accepted that ruling and proposed new arrangements for Government time. We engaged in more than 20 hours of discussion, including full mediation but instead of seriously engaging, the Opposition spent more time on the plinth than around the table.
Paul McAuliffe (Dublin North-West, Fianna Fail)
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What we cannot allow is the tearing down of this House by the Opposition. Twice now, it has tried to prevent the House from taking a vote. That is not the act of any democrat. Our Constitution protects our right to cast a vote here in this Chamber. Our Standing Orders exist to protect the function of the Chamber and the Ceann Comhairle carries the heavy burden of enforcing them. Let the record show that Deputy after Deputy stood, shouted and screamed, not to be heard but to intimidate. It was a co-ordinated attempt to shut down the democratic process. It would not be allowed in any residents’ association or GAA club around the country, and now, as at a drunken stag party, they cry foul because they did not hear the call for last orders. Well, last orders were called. It is time to put these tactics behind us and get on with people's work.
Barry Ward (Dún Laoghaire, Fine Gael)
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I understood this was a motion of confidence in the Ceann Comhairle, yet almost everything I have heard in this debate has been about ancillary issues that are not relevant to confidence or otherwise. This is why this discussion feels genuinely insincere. I do not believe those who profess a lack of confidence actually have a lack of confidence. What this feels like much more is an attempt to drag on this issue, raise it over and over again and stop this House from doing the business it wants and needs to do. All of us who talk to the people in our constituencies who voted for us hear the same refrain: get back to work, do the business of the people, stop haranguing each other and get on with it. That is what we are trying to do but the opposite is the case given what is happening. Even in this debate, there has been jeering and haranguing from the other side of the House. It is not acceptable. The behaviour we saw here on 22 January and last week is not okay. There is nothing to justify it. It does not matter how much you disagree with what was done. This is a democratic Chamber that operates according to democratic norms. When the majority votes, you must accept that as a democracy and move on, even if you are unhappy with that. As the last speaker said, in the course of the more than 20 hours of meetings we had on this matter at meetings of the Dáil reform committee, we were essentially threatened by Members who told us that all hell would break loose and that we would see resistance like we had never seen before. That is the old Sinn Féin way. We do not do that here. This is a democratic Chamber elected by the people of Ireland, and what we want to do is get on with the work of those people, which urgently needs to be done. Let us do that. Let us recognise that no party has a veto on what this Chamber does, that no group can shout down the Chair and that no group can prevent this Government or this Chamber from doing its business. Let us get on with the work of the people.
Cormac Devlin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
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At a time Ireland faces significant challenges that demand leadership, stability and vision, it is disgraceful that the Opposition has chosen the path of political theatrics over substantive solutions. The Opposition's motion is nothing more than a political stunt aimed at undermining the Government rather than addressing the real challenges that lie ahead. Its behaviour last week was outrageous, involving bullying and intimidating the Ceann Comhairle along with the Oireachtas staff in this Chamber when they did not get their own way. They respect democracy only when it suits them. Their orchestrated disruption was a deliberate strategy to prevent legitimate Dáil business, not just on the Standing Orders, though, but also on the day the Taoiseach was meant to be elected. The amendments to the Standing Orders were passed by a decisive 21-vote majority – 95 to 74. The sole focus of the Members opposite has been obstruction rather than governance. At a time Ireland is facing massive tariffs and potentially an economic war, they have caused chaos here in this Chamber over the past several weeks.
The Ceann Comhairle was elected by a democratic majority and has upheld her solemn obligation fairly and impartially. The Clerk of the Dáil confirmed proceedings were conducted properly and false accusations of bias and collusion are completely unfounded. The Government is rightly committed to tackling real issues – housing, health and economic security – while the Opposition fixates on political theatrics. Sinn Féin has yet to introduce legislation in this new Dáil term. The Opposition seeks to rule by veto. That is not how democracy works. We cannot allow reckless disruption to derail this House. I urge all responsible Members to stand for stability, responsible governance and confidence in the Ceann Comhairle. Let us move forward and deliver for the people of Ireland.
Emer Currie (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
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Sinn Féin likes to talk up the new combined Opposition but what in fact we are getting is combined obstructionism, a calculated web of chaos to undermine the legitimacy of government, where even staff and clerks of the Dáil are fair game. However, what else would you expect from a party that for decades refused to recognise this House and opposed this State – experts at blame and shame and little else.
The Opposition won the argument that you cannot be in government and opposition at the same time when the Ceann Comhairle made her ruling. For what it is worth, it was the right decision. The new Standing Orders recognise the constitutional rights of all elected Members of this House. Government backbenchers have as much right as Members of the Opposition to represent the concerns of the constituents who have elected them.
Since 29 November, we have needed a government with those willing to come forward and together to make hard decisions, supported by a strong majority of TDs. US tariff policy and the decisions of President Trump may be outside of our control. In the context of global challenges, this Government wants to get Ireland's house in order.
It was another American president, Abraham Lincoln, who said: "A house divided against itself, cannot stand.". Sinn Féin want this House and this State in disorder to continue their own long agenda. Today, I stand with the Ceann Comhairle for the legitimacy of government formation, for focusing on the issues that demand our attention and for order.
6:25 am
John Lahart (Dublin South West, Fianna Fail)
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The Ceann Comhairle was elected by secret ballot by a majority of Members. She is the first woman to hold this office.
Aengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
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I will give the Deputy that one.
John Lahart (Dublin South West, Fianna Fail)
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It is already easy to forget that one of her first duties was to chair the election of a Taoiseach. The people who took a wrecking ball to process in this House sit on the opposite benches. Getting down to the business of last week, it is difficult, as anybody here can testify to the fact, for the public to appreciate the visceral and toxic atmosphere pervading the Chamber last week and to wonder why violent protest might take place on our streets. Members opposite have made much today, as have commentators who were not in the Chamber on the day, either in these seats or in the press gallery, that calls for votes and proposals for amendments were clearly audible on playback. Nothing was audible in this Chamber last Wednesday, just as nothing was audible on the day we gathered to vote to elect a Taoiseach. Even the most reasonable Member of the Opposition has not apologised or expressed regret for the behaviour on either of those two occasions.
John Lahart (Dublin South West, Fianna Fail)
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It is almost 100 years since W.B. Yeats rebuked the audience in the Abbey, berating them saying, "You have disgraced yourselves once again."
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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Oh, Jesus.
John Lahart (Dublin South West, Fianna Fail)
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Those words came to mind last week. While the tagline "You cannot be in Government and the opposition at the same time" is an easy and actually lazy chant-----
John Lahart (Dublin South West, Fianna Fail)
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-----and this point was made in the Dáil reform committee, it does not reflect our evolving democracy. The truth of these episodes is Ireland elects a disproportional number of independents by international comparison. In other parliaments, there are cross-benchers; those who waive the designation of opposition or government and choose to be designated as other. There are Deputies who wish to be in this new grouping who voted against the Government on more occasions than they have supported the Government.
This started five years ago with, "Not my Taoiseach". It continued again in January with we will obstruct the democratic decision of this House and the election of a Taoiseach. It has continued with we will make this place unworkable. These are not the ways to build confidence and these are not the ways to build an accountable Chamber or a more collaborative parliament.
Louise O'Reilly (Dublin Fingal West, Sinn Fein)
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In this Chamber, we talk a lot about accountability but we know this Government, made up of Fianna Fáil, Fine Gael and the Lowry group, has shown itself to be absolutely allergic to accountability. In the election campaign, both Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael told us they would hit a figure of 40,000 homes, even though they were told repeatedly by their own experts that this figure was a massive overinflation. They persisted with it. Even today, they cannot find even a scrap of humility to admit they were telling untruths.
Their past performance tells us they need to be held firmly to account because they will be off with more fibs, more untruths or whatever word you want to put on it, the moment they get the chance. That is why the job of the Ceann Comhairle is particularly important in this Dáil and the impartiality and fairness of that role must be absolute. The appointment of the Ceann Comhairle was the subject of some horse-trading by all accounts. Of course, until the Lowry deal is published, we will not know the price taxpayers will have to pay for her to get the job but we do know, as a result of this deal, the Lowry group got their woman in.
In attempting to ram through the farce that the Lowry group can be in opposition and government at the same time, some people say the Ceann has proved her worth to the Government. My colleague, an Teachta Mary Lou McDonald, put on the record the views of Deputy Lowry himself, the "political manoeuvring", as he called it, that had to be undertaken and all of that, we know, was done in secret. The question we have asked and asked again remains unanswered. Is there no limit to the lengths this Government will go to protect Deputy Lowry and the grubby little deal?
He has given a very clear two-fingered salute to the Dáil and to the people in it. Last week, we saw his contempt writ large, and the response is to give him extra speaking time. All of this was facilitated by the Ceann Comhairle. It is patently absurd to suggest that any TD can be in opposition and government at the same time-----
Paul McAuliffe (Dublin North-West, Fianna Fail)
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That is not what we are saying.
Louise O'Reilly (Dublin Fingal West, Sinn Fein)
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-----and all of the changes to Standing Orders in the world will not alter that fact. To collude in an absurdity like that does the Office of the Ceann Comhairle no favours and I suspect the Ceann Comhairle knows that herself.
The actual Opposition has tabled an amendment to the motion and I urge Fianna Fáil, Fine Gael and indeed, the Lowry group, to consider this amendment, which simply recognises the fact that if the Ceann Comhairle is to fulfil her obligations under Standing Order 10, she should retain the confidence of both the Government and the Opposition. Surely, that is the minimum we can expect.
The label "do nothing Government" has been attached, quite rightly, to this Government. While they have achieved very little beyond pay rises for themselves and jobs for the boys, they have succeeded in one thing; they have shown the Opposition can come together and act collectively when we need to.
Paul Murphy (Dublin South West, Solidarity)
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What we have heard from the Government benches is an incredibly narrow view of what democracy means. You could paraphrase the Chief Whip with "We won, you lost, we can do whatever we want.". I am sorry but that is not democracy. Where is the space in that for the rights of minorities? Where is the space in that for the rights of opposition?
Paul McAuliffe (Dublin North-West, Fianna Fail)
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Leader's Questions.
Paul Murphy (Dublin South West, Solidarity)
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The rules that protect those rights were deliberately, consciously and repeatedly broken by the Ceann Comhairle last week. It is her job to protect those rules and to ensure they are abided by but instead she broke them one after the other. There was the unprecedented situation of a vote being called on the Order of Business and no vote being granted. It was an incredible, unprecedented situation of the Government's own proposal for Standing Orders not actually being voted on and simply deemed passed and the agenda simply ripped up for the day, including a Government backbench First Stage Bill simply forgotten about.
The Government parties are absolutely right to draw the comparison with creeping authoritarianism internationally. It is them who are engaged in it. Why? Because it is a right wing Government without a mudguard that is preparing to ram through a series of highly unpopular measures. They are right to be afraid about the prospect of street politics because it is street politics that will ultimately beat them.
James Lawless (Kildare North, Fianna Fail)
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That is why the Deputy is in opposition.
Séamus Healy (Tipperary South, Independent)
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The role of the Ceann Comhairle is to be the impartial Chairperson of the Dáil and to carry out that role with the confidence and trust of both Government and Opposition Deputies. The independence of the office was further emphasised in 2016 when a decision was made that the post would be filled by a secret ballot of TDs. However, in 2024, the independence and impartiality of the Office of Ceann Comhairle was seriously compromised by making it part of a Government deal at the insistence of the Regional Independent Group and the collusion of Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael.
It is regrettable that the Ceann Comhairle's stewardship of the speaking time debate last week left a lot to be desired and showed bias towards the Government position. Two issues in particular arose: first, the declaration of agreement to the Order of Business, despite a clear calling of a vote, and the putting of the amendment rather than the motion; and, second, the question of cancelling Questions on Policy or Legislation, clearly beneficial to the Government's side. I am satisfied the Ceann Comhairle favoured the Government position and I must therefore vote no confidence in her.
6:35 am
Catherine Connolly (Galway West, Independent)
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6 o’clock
This Government has pushed a policy of might is right at every level. It has seriously undermined years of Dáil reform. That reform was brought in to make democracy stronger in order that all voices within the Dáil would be heard. The Government is being disingenuous and dangerous. I take particular note of the speeches of the Taoiseach, the Tánaiste and one of the Ministers in which language was turned absolutely on its head. The Government rammed through changes. It placed the Ceann Comhairle in an invidious position because that ramming through was announced in various interviews on RTÉ, etc. The Government made no attempt to change the language because it was always going to ram through the changes. All of this has added to the growing distrust among people as regards the political process. They simply do not trust the Government because it has turned language on its head. When it rams through changes that it says will ostensibly give more speaking time to backbenchers, which is far from true, it is also telling lies and being disingenuous.
Darragh O'Brien (Dublin Fingal East, Fianna Fail)
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Telling lies.
Jennifer Carroll MacNeill (Dún Laoghaire, Fine Gael)
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That word.
Darragh O'Brien (Dublin Fingal East, Fianna Fail)
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A Leas-Cheann Comhairle-----
Catherine Connolly (Galway West, Independent)
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It has effectively reduced the opportunity for openness and the accountability on the part of the Taoiseach by reducing the time available to Members to question him. It has reduced the time for the Order of Business. It has reduced the time for our Private Members' business. All the time, it has said it is doing the opposite.
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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Regrettably, the Ceann Comhairle has compromised the integrity of her position and her independence by involving herself in the grubby deal that was done between Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael and Michael Lowry, the politician who was found by the Moriarty tribunal to be "profoundly corrupt". The reasons for that, obviously, are that the Government does not care about corruption and is quite willing to do anything in order to sustain itself in power. A hundred years of Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael is not enough for them. Controlling the purse strings is not enough for them. Controlling the Dáil schedule is not enough for them. Controlling all the legislation is not enough for them. They want to rig matters and undermine and gag the Opposition. They are the ones subverting democracy, and then they cover all that with utterly dishonest - knowingly dishonest - claims that "it is only eight minutes". We had the spectacle earlier of Government TDs jumping up and down like jack-in-the-boxes during 45 minutes of Taoiseach's Questions. They would do the same tomorrow except that the Government has slashed Taoiseach's Questions in half - 45 minutes gone from Government and Opposition. It is scrutiny Micheál Martin does not want. That is why the Government is so keen on this. Time is slashed off Private Members' business and the Order of Business because not only does the Government want to control everything and maintain itself in power, it also wants to gag, silence and subvert the Opposition in order that it will not be subject to scrutiny or criticism.
Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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A Government's majority is a mandate to govern, but it is not a mandate to dilute and make less effective the long-established principles and rules of how this House operates, the very basis for our democratic exchange functions. The Government is held to account by the Opposition. That accountability must be honest, rigorous and searching. It will work only if it is independent of the Government. This week, the Dáil is undermining that absolute principle, not for policy but for patronage, not for principle but for the parish pump. As our country faces into worsening economic and political crises, our Taoiseach is performing political acrobatics to keep these deals alive. I would expect the office of Ceann Comhairle to uphold the defence of that principle of democratic exchange with vigour. Undoubtedly, the actions of this Government have placed the Ceann Comhairle in an invidious position, but last week the Ceann Comhairle did not uphold those principles in the even-handed way the Opposition expects.
I therefore say with real regret that I cannot vote confidence in the Ceann Comhairle today. I say that knowing the vote will pass. I hope there is a way forward to rebuild trust in this House. That will not happen, however, if this Government continues to try to reshape the rules of this House, to decrease speaking time and to undermine the crucial role of the Opposition.
Ruth Coppinger (Dublin West, Solidarity)
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There has been a halving of Taoiseach's Questions, a halving of the Order of Business and extra time for a special group, the Michael Lowry group. I remind the House that the Taoiseach and the Tánaiste took the decision to ram through last week's discussion without debate. Michael Lowry, a taker of bribes and of workers' money, is welcomed back into government. Let us be clear as to what the deal was. Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael could not bring him into the Government because that would be a step too far. That would be the Rubicon crossed. Michael Lowry therefore insisted on getting this special arrangement of Leaders' Questions, the office of Ceann Comhairle and the other lot as special Ministers of State. Intellectually, he towers over some of them, so I assume that is why that deal was done.
I see this as part of a process that is happening in Europe. It is not accidental that the Taoiseach talked about the difficult times we are heading into. There was a lot of hyperbole about arson and so on, but it is the Taoiseach and the Tánaiste and Fine Gael and Fianna Fáil who have taken this decision to change standing orders to quell the Opposition. Let us be clear: there have been two days when the Dáil was disrupted. The way Government Deputies are going on, one would think it is every day of the week. The rest of the days have been padded out with irrelevant statements on things like diversion of youth from crime, to be taken this week, not tariffs, not Ukraine, not Palestine, not any of the pressing issues Government Deputies claim to want discussed.
John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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You have to conclude, Deputy Coppinger.
Ruth Coppinger (Dublin West, Solidarity)
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They control the agenda-----
Ruth Coppinger (Dublin West, Solidarity)
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-----so they should give it up with the "get on with the work".
John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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Thank you, Deputy Coppinger. Before I go to the Government side, I just want to say to Deputy Connolly, I am sure you are aware you accused Members of telling lies. Maybe you would like to consider that remark and withdraw it.
Catherine Connolly (Galway West, Independent)
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I said they were being disingenuous.
Jennifer Carroll MacNeill (Dún Laoghaire, Fine Gael)
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No, you used the word "lies".
Conor McGuinness (Waterford, Sinn Fein)
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It is the English for "bréag".
John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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I call the Minister, Peter Burke. Order, please.
Peter Burke (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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I rise to support the Government motion of confidence in the Ceann Comhairle and her right as a democratically elected constitutional officer to impartially adjudicate over the Thirty-fourth Dáil. In the context of a significant announcement due in hours from the Trump Administration that has the capacity to really impact so many livelihoods right across this country and pose a threat to so many jobs, we in this House are not debating a motion as regards the tariffs could be imposed in the coming hours. We are not debating a motion on what the European response may be to that significant threat.
Ruth Coppinger (Dublin West, Solidarity)
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Because you did not put that on the agenda.
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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Exactly.
Peter Burke (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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We are not debating a motion on the capacity of our economy to respond to a significant shock that may be on the horizon.
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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Why did you not put that on the agenda?
Peter Burke (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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Nor are we looking at the vulnerabilities our economy faces and how we may need to respond in the coming months.
Peter Burke (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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We are debating a motion the Opposition has triggered-----
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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It is your motion.
Peter Burke (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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-----about eight minutes every Wednesday and Thursday afternoon. That is what we are at here, while there are so many significant challenges to our economy. It is time we got back to a functioning Dáil and let Members in this House play their part on the various committees on which they need to represent our interests and the people's interests. We have seen unprecedented disorder in this House in recent months. We have seen video-recording, name-calling and chanting that one would expect to see at a far-right protest. Now we have to get back to respecting this national Parliament with the dignity and respect with which our communities sent us here to ensure we discharge our responsibilities as best we can.
There has been a significant opportunity cost over recent months. No foreign affairs and trade committee-----
Peter Burke (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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-----to really dig down into the various sectoral interests-----
Aengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
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That is your fault. You are the Government.
Peter Burke (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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It is absolutely your fault. It is the Opposition's fault that the committees are not sitting in this Dáil. There is no European affairs committee-----
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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Fact check.
Peter Burke (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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-----to speak for colleagues right across the EU 27-----
Paul Murphy (Dublin South West, Solidarity)
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Let us have a committee of selection right now.
Peter Burke (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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-----as to how we are responding. There is no tourism, trade and enterprise committee to bring in sectoral interests, to advance the programme for Government-----
Peter Burke (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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This is it - shout people down.
Paul Murphy (Dublin South West, Solidarity)
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No. Set up the committees, please.
Peter Burke (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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If anyone has an opposing view, shout them down.
Paul Murphy (Dublin South West, Solidarity)
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Set up the committees, please.
Peter Burke (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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You are well used to street protests.
Paul Murphy (Dublin South West, Solidarity)
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I am, yeah. Set up the committees, please.
Peter Burke (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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We work in communities, we deliver, we do the work; you shout and roar and try to bring disorder here and have our Parliament suspended.
Peter Burke (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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Well, let us resolve one thing today: that this House will not be suspended again. Let us ensure we get on with our work and are delivering for the Irish people what we were sent here to do by our communities.
Paul Murphy (Dublin South West, Solidarity)
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Do not be telling lies about committees then.
John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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I call the Minister, Deputy O'Brien. Order, please.
Paul Murphy (Dublin South West, Solidarity)
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Tell the truth about the committees.
Darragh O'Brien (Dublin Fingal East, Fianna Fail)
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Calm down, Paul.
Paul Murphy (Dublin South West, Solidarity)
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Will you tell the truth about committees, Darragh?
Darragh O'Brien (Dublin Fingal East, Fianna Fail)
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I listened with incredulity earlier to the arch-propagandist, arch-revisionist Mary Lou McDonald alleging a co-ordinated and concerted plan by the Government to silence the Opposition.
Anyone looking in over the course of the past ten weeks would know that the only co-ordinated and concerted plan was the Opposition's plan. This was led by Sinn Féin. I note with some degree of disappointment and sorrow that it was aided and abetted by the Labour Party. That party was led by the nose in these debates to continue to disrupt, attack and undermine the workings of Dáil Éireann. This did not just begin last week. It has been Sinn Féin's approach since before the election and after it lost the election. It declared publicly that there would be opposition at all costs. We have seen what that means.
On 22 January, Sinn Féin Members elected by their constituents to discharge their democratic mandate and constitutional duty to elect a Taoiseach obstructed us from electing a Taoiseach. This happened for the first time in 106 years, despite all of the challenges this State has faced since its foundation. God knows many of those challenges were brought about by members of that party over the decades. Since 22 January, the party has continued in that vein. This has not been about speaking rights. Let us be honest about it; this has been about populism and about Sinn Féin hoping and praying to capitalise on a political opportunity. However, the reality is that this country faces major challenges both internationally and domestically.
6:45 am
Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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Housing is one.
Conor McGuinness (Waterford, Sinn Fein)
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Who was the Minister for housing?
Darragh O'Brien (Dublin Fingal East, Fianna Fail)
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What Sinn Féin has chosen to do over the last ten weeks is to prioritise this above all else. Sinn Féin has always been about Sinn Féin. It is Sinn Féin first-----
Darragh O'Brien (Dublin Fingal East, Fianna Fail)
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-----and country second or maybe third. It is all about Sinn Féin. If we park the politics, Deputy McDonald has to be honest with herself.
Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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Are you pointing at me?
Darragh O'Brien (Dublin Fingal East, Fianna Fail)
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She should look at-----
Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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Do not point at me.
Darragh O'Brien (Dublin Fingal East, Fianna Fail)
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-----the way her Deputies treated the Ceann Comhairle last week. The level of hatred and vitriol and the abuse the Ceann Comhairle had to put up with as she was discharging her duties correctly was absolutely reprehensible. I hope that, after ten weeks, the Deputies will get back to doing the work they are elected to do. Yes, they should hold the Government to account but they should also do their work.
Conor McGuinness (Waterford, Sinn Fein)
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Says the man who presided over the housing crisis.
James Browne (Wexford, Fianna Fail)
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I condemn the reckless behaviour of the Opposition, a coalition of chaos determined not to serve the people but to sabotage the democratic functioning of this very House. Opposition Members' constant disruption of the Dáil is not protest but performance. It is a blatant attempt to undermine the very institution they claim to serve. Now, they stoop even lower, lodging a motion of no confidence in the Ceann Comhairle, an attack not on a person but on the integrity of this institution. The Ceann Comhairle has conducted her duties with fairness, impartiality and respect for every Member of this Chamber. To undermine her is to undermine the very authority of the Dáil itself. Where is the Labour Party in all of this?
Duncan SmithJames Browne (Wexford, Fianna Fail)
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Its members have reduced themselves to acolytes of Sinn Féin. What was once a party of principle has now lined up with populists and opportunists, lending its voice to this cynical circus and treating everything as a joke, as we have just heard. This House faces serious challenges including threats to the economy from tariffs and challenges in housing, healthcare and climate. The people want solutions not stunts. They expect leadership and not tantrums. We choose responsibility over rhetoric.
Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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They want housing.
James Browne (Wexford, Fianna Fail)
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We reject this motion and stand by the Ceann Comhairle.
Réada Cronin (Kildare North, Sinn Fein)
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It is the Government's motion.
James Browne (Wexford, Fianna Fail)
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We will not allow the work of the Dáil and the Irish people to be derailed by those who have abandoned responsibility. It is time to move on and start doing the work we were elected to do.
Timmy Dooley (Clare, Fianna Fail)
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I welcome the opportunity to address the House on this important matter. It is a matter of record that a general election was held last November. People had their say and elected those of us who were fortunate enough to be elected. A group of like-minded parties and individuals came together and put together a programme for Government-----
Réada Cronin (Kildare North, Sinn Fein)
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Like-minded is right.
Timmy Dooley (Clare, Fianna Fail)
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-----that was aimed at addressing the important issues that face Ireland, Europe and the world at a very difficult time. Things have got complicated since. We all understand that, in the aftermath of an election, there can be a period that is difficult for parties who had sought and perhaps expected to gain more but did not. We have been there too. I know what it feels like. However, it is incumbent on all of us to try to work together for the betterment of the Irish people. There is now a challenge that is greater than any we might have expected prior to the election. That is the looming tariffs coming from the United States and the impact these will have on all our communities and on our economy as a whole. I do not want to lecture anybody. We all go through an electoral cycle, see the outcome and have to work through that. However, I hope that we have reached an impasse today and that the vote that will take place later this evening will draw a line in the sand and allow all of us to move on. It should also allow the Opposition to do what it does very well and what it did very well for the last five years, which is to hold Government to account and to identify the positives, the negatives and often the failures. However, let us try to do that in a manner that recognises the challenges we face and gives us all the capacity to respond to the looming economic crisis by sharing the problems, working through them and finding solutions. It is not beyond this side of the House to look to good ideas coming from the other side. Great ideas are not the preserve of any one political party. In holding a government to account, an opposition can clearly have an input but it should not be what we saw last week. Again, I do not want to lecture anyone but it should not be about haranguing or barracking anybody. I hope we have moved past that at this stage.
Cathal Crowe (Clare, Fianna Fail)
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I express my confidence in the Ceann Comhairle, Deputy Murphy. Instead of having these statements, a number of TDs should be on their feet offering apologies and retracting statements they made last week. It is a good thing the microphone did not pick up some of those comments because they were outrageous, but they were very much heard in this Chamber throughout the debate last week. It was plain old simple schoolyard bullying. The collective Opposition crossed the Rubicon last week and debased the precious democratic structures of Dáil Éireann, our democratically elected Parliament that was hard fought for and hard won. Shame on each and every Member who tried to rip that apart, on each and every one who tried to deny backbenchers speaking time in this Chamber and on each one who is trying to depose the Ceann Comhairle. The Ceann Comhairle of Dáil Éireann, Deputy Murphy, is above the politics of this House. I was appalled to hear Deputy McDonald say earlier today speak of her "eagerness to get the job done for Government". That comment was outrageous and should be withdrawn.
Cathal Crowe (Clare, Fianna Fail)
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I hope the Deputy will be writing to the Ceann Comhairle tomorrow in that regard. Deputy McDonald assumes we on this side have collective amnesia but we have waited two years to hear about her connections with convicted criminal Jonathan Dowdall. I guess, like Slab Murphy, he is a good republican and so gets a pass. We would love to hear about Deputy McDonald's connections to him because that is grubby.
There are many issues that the TDs and Senators of Dáil Éireann and Seanad Éireann need to get working on. Tomorrow's tariffs from the United States are principal among these. Once this evening's orchestrated stunt has been dealt with, it is really important that we get down to the serious work of Dáil Éireann on behalf of the people of Ireland.
Colm Burke (Cork North-Central, Fine Gael)
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I support the motion of confidence in the Ceann Comhairle. She retains my full confidence. As the democratically elected Chair of this House, she deserves the respect of all its Members. She was democratically elected. As a former colleague of hers on the Committee of Public Accounts, I know of her work rate and her commitment to fairness, due procedure and full accountability. I know she will implement that as Ceann Comhairle. Regardless of whether you support the Government or the Opposition, there are very great challenges facing our country and, indeed, the entire world. There is the threat of tariffs on goods, issues of global security and armed conflicts that affect this country indirectly. Both the Government and the Opposition must move on with the business of tackling these issues. We must not see a repeat of what happened last week. The matter of speaking rights has been subject to 20 hours of debate at the Dáil reform committee. It is now time to move on and deal with the setting up of committees, particularly the Committee of Public Accounts but also the health committee, the committee on agriculture and a range of other committees we need to have up and running. This also gives the Opposition an opportunity to scrutinise what is happening in Departments and have Ministers before them. None of that is happening at present. It is therefore a priority that we now move on. We have major challenges and it is important that these are dealt with by all of us working together in the Oireachtas to make sure we deliver for the people who elected us.
6:55 am
Claire Kerrane (Roscommon-Galway, Sinn Fein)
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I listened to the Minister, Deputy Donohoe, speak. He said that you cannot disrupt procedures and then talk about the value of order and procedure. I can speak to the value of order because in the five years I have been in this House, I have never disrupted anyone. I have never spoken over anyone and have never raised my voice. Even while listening to non-answers to questions I ask, I do not disrupt. I would usually be the last person to stand up to speak on a motion of no confidence, as we see it, but I do so because, as a Member of this House, I am concerned in relation to the impartiality of the Ceann Comhairle. I listened to the Chief Whip, Deputy Butler, talk about this motion being about the Opposition not getting its way. Similar to the eight minutes argument, that completely misses the point. It is not about one or the other getting their own way; it is about basic procedures and rules that have always been the bedrock of the running of this House.
There are three key issues which have been repeatedly raised and which have not been answered by anyone on the Government benches. Every week, a vote is called on the Order of Business. One was called last week. "Vótáil" was clearly called, as it always is. Why was a vote not taken? What was the rush? Questions on Policy or Legislation were dropped out of nowhere. Why? The substantive motion to change Standing Orders was not voted on. Why? What was the rush? It was not the Ceann Comhairle's role to rush business to get to the vote on the motion. That is not the role of the Ceann Comhairle, and it should never be. I then heard Deputy Currie speak about the Opposition who had confidence in the Ceann Comhairle when she ruled that the Lowry group could not be in opposition as a technical group. Where is this group? They have a speaking slot now secured alongside Opposition leaders, joined with Government backbenchers in one group. In the eyes of the Lowry group, they are with a group of Government, but they are not Government, but they are Government and they are in a slot with Government. A dangerous precedent has been set that you can run for election, be the chief negotiator in government formation talks, gets jobs in terms of the Ceann Comhairle and Ministers and then choose to sit here or there, be in government or in opposition or in both. That is a dangerous precedent.
I would like to think that lessons will be learnt, not least that the role of Ceann Comhairle should not be a bargaining chip when it comes to government formation talks. The role of Ceann Comhairle should not be on the table when it comes to such talks. Unfortunately, the Government still seems to see absolutely nothing wrong with that. Therein lies part of the problem and part of the reason we are here today.
Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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I move amendment No. 1:
To delete all words after "Dáil Éireann" and substitute the following: "notes that in order for the Ceann Comhairle to fulfil her obligations as set out under Standing Order 10, she must retain the confidence of both Government and Opposition members;
and further notes that the Ceann Comhairle no longer retains the confidence of opposition TDs of this House.".
Michael Collins (Cork South-West, Independent Ireland Party)
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We are talking about a vote of confidence in the Ceann Comhairle. While circumstances have led us to this incredible situation, it is unfair that the Ceann Comhairle should share all the blame. I attended every business and Dáil reform meeting of the new Dáil. The antics of some leave a lot to be desired and it leaves a bad taste in this Dáil that will not be forgotten for a long time. The bottom line is that the Taoiseach and the Tánaiste did what I have called a stinking bad deal with Michael Lowry and his team of Regional Independents. Without a scrap of paper, without a policy and without even a website, this shocking nod-and-wink deal that could well run to billions of euro of taxpayers' money was done. The Taoiseach asked at length about what choice did he have because no one else came forward. This is truly misleading the Dáil because we in Independent Ireland came forward. The problem the two parties had was that Independent Ireland had policies and solutions to problems. We were willing to sit down, marry our policies into the programme for Government and deliver for the people. The Taoiseach, in his only acknowledgement of our honest negotiations, said he could not meet our demands. The honest answer is he did not even speak to us until the stinking deal was done with Michael Lowry. We knew then the train was gone from the station, and we were left at the station.
The Taoiseach and the Tánaiste did not want to do a deal with us because we would have stood by our principles and not caved in like the Regional Independents. We wanted a Government driven by policy and a proper programme for Government, not new ministerial positions, with perks and Mercs alone costing the country more than €5 million. Independent Ireland was willing at all times to talk and to deliver on housing without dreaming up false figures on housing targets and delivering on infrastructure in a country that has wastewater tanks all over leaking into local rivers, delivering on health without people waiting years on waiting lists, delivering on education where parents would not have to stand outside shops fundraising to keep the school door open or go to the local parish priest to pay the electricity for the local school. We were willing to deliver on real climate action where people would get their homes insulated within a few months of application and a freeze on the hungry cash grab by this Government called the carbon tax. We would freeze any increase to enable our elderly and families to fill the tank of oil at home, heat the house or put the diesel or petrol into the car to do their normal daily work.
We were willing to deliver on farm payments for the close to 10,000 farmers waiting two years for GLAS payments, for the long-forgotten fishermen of Castletownbere up to Killybegs and down to Wexford to get new fishing quotas or even the bluefin quota the rest of the world has and not the dirty decommissioning deal delivered by the previous Government. We were willing to deliver on tourism where we would not see a drop of 30% in February and 20% in January in people coming to this country and where we would have forced the hand of Government to deliver the long promises about the 13.5% VAT to 9%. We would have delivered on all hotels the length and breadth of Ireland to be open for tourism and not IPAS. The Taoiseach did not want to do business with Independent Ireland because our policies could not be negotiated. He wanted a blank sheet from Michael Lowry's side, full of nods and winks.
I was not happy with the happenings in the Dáil last week. That is why I will be voting no confidence in the Ceann Comhairle.
Richard O'Donoghue (Limerick County, Independent Ireland Party)
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We are here today for a vote of no confidence in the Ceann Comhairle. Many previous speakers referred to right and wrong. I have a copy of the Standing Orders in front of me. If you were to follow the Standing Orders last week - what was done right and what was done wrong. I was the person from Independent Ireland who emailed the Ceann Comhairle at the time and asked her, as well as at the time of the recess, to look at the process on the Standing Orders. I followed protocol. I asked her to acknowledge the email but they never came back. If you look at Oireachtas television, within 11 seconds the Ceann Comhairle rammed something through even though there was a call of "Vótáil". That is on the record of Oireachtas television. That is the right and the wrong that was done here. That is what has been done wrong. That is what I am questioning.
I am not questioning Michael Healy-Rae, Sean Canney, Noel Grealish, Kevin Boxer Moran or Marian Harkin getting junior Ministries. At least they stood up and went into government. I am not questioning that; I am questioning the fact that Standing Orders were not followed, even though there is a record of an email that we sent, which was followed up by an email from Michael Collins and Ken O'Flynn. That is on the record. Also on the record is the Journal of the Proceedings of the Dáil. We have been asking for the Journal of the Proceedings of the Dáil but it has not been given to us. Why? It is because it is supposed to be here. Standing Orders have to be adhered to. The Ceann Comhairle did not follow Standing Orders. That is what I am questioning today. That is what I put in writing to the Ceann Comhairle. I am not here to roar and shout; I am here to follow the Standing Orders. The Standing Orders were not adhered to. That is what I am questioning.
Peadar Tóibín (Meath West, Aontú)
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The Government has bullied through a new hybrid speaking system into this Dáil. The Government created a speaking system with another designation and it wants to control that designation as well. It already has a majority in this Dáil, but it wants the majority of the designations as well. Incredibly, in the new Standing Orders, the Chief Whip of the Government will be able to control who asks the Government's questions from this new group. That is an incredible situation. We in Aontú have demanded that the Government stop. We even asked the Government to participate in mediation but it has refused. The display in the Dáil last week was disgraceful. Grown adults were shouting at the top of their voices to drown out the democratic functions of this Dáil. I was present in the Chamber. If the truth be known, this Chamber was the opposite of dignity at work. It was embarrassing that we had that situation broadcast internationally. I have no doubt that Verona Murphy has made mistakes; she made mistakes last Tuesday. That is absolutely true. The people complaining that she made mistakes are the people who made the environment impossible for her to work in. I am aware of TDs saying the Ceann Comhairle was not listening to them.
The Ceann Comhairle could not hear anything last week because of the volume of noise in this Chamber. It is a situation whereby people outside of the political bubble in this Dáil are furious. I have been talking to people in my constituency and, for most people, it is a curse on all our houses over this current situation. The Dáil is an absolute disgrace.
7:05 am
Johnny Guirke (Meath West, Sinn Fein)
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What about your part in it?
Peadar Tóibín (Meath West, Aontú)
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We are 123 days since the general election and this Dáil has sat for 21 days.
Paul Murphy (Dublin South West, Solidarity)
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You have been on the fence the whole time.
Peadar Tóibín (Meath West, Aontú)
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There is not a committee functioning in this Dáil at the moment. No wonder we cannot build a hospital in this country without the prices ballooning out of control. No wonder there is not a house for a young person, and that young people have to emigrate to actually get a house. It is beyond time that we cop on to ourselves in this Chamber and see can we work to fix those issues. This issue has eclipsed the biggest existential economic threats to this economy, which are the tariffs, in the past number of weeks. We dearly need to listen to the people outside of this bubble, and we need to cop on to ourselves fast.
Johnny Guirke (Meath West, Sinn Fein)
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What about your part in it?
Peadar Tóibín (Meath West, Aontú)
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Deputy Guirke spoke for one hour last year in the whole year.
Ruth Coppinger (Dublin West, Solidarity)
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What about your part in it?
Paul Gogarty (Dublin Mid West, Independent)
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This confidence motion arises because several Opposition parties want to take down the Ceann Comhairle. She is not the issue. The problem is the Government riding roughshod over speaking time and designating the Lowry Independent group as somehow non-Government and reducing Opposition speaking time. As an Opposition TD, I have called this out on several occasions, but some want to use the Ceann Comhairle as a trophy scapegoat. The manner in which the business of the Dáil has been loudly disrupted on several occasions is regrettable and could have been done differently, and the personalised way Verona Murphy has been treated over the past two months is an embarrassment to politics. I described the abusive bullying behaviour last week as semi-feral. To be honest, I could have called it feral if it were not so orchestrated. Some TDs here should have got an Oscar for their fake outrage.
To be clear, nobody comes out of this process with dignity. It makes us all look bad. Anybody viewing this charade up in the Gallery, on television or wherever on a screen could only conclude that it is a case of clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right, and here we are stuck in the middle of a housing and homelessness crisis, war in Ukraine, atrocities in Gaza, our economy at risk from US tariffs and an existential climate crisis. This is not right. We should get real.
Jim O'Callaghan (Dublin Bay South, Fianna Fail)
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There is a responsibility on every Member of this House to make sure that it does not become a toxic place to work. I have been here for nine years. I have never found it a toxic place. I have found it a place where there is vigorous and abrasive debate within this Chamber, but it has always been respectful. However, what we saw on 22 January and last week was different. The reason it was different was because people were shouted down. I have no difficulty with or objection, and neither does anyone else in this House, to being heckled while making a speech. It is nearly part of the democratic process. However, when somebody is incapable or prevented from making a speech or running orders that are part of Dáil procedures, that is different, and that is what happened on 22 January and last week. The criticism from the Opposition is that the Ceann Comhairle did not take the vote. In fairness to her, if we go back to 22 January, the criticism of her at that stage was that she did not allow a vote to be taken. On both occasions, the one thing that was consistent was that there were efforts being made to shout down what was being said here in the Chamber. That is not a route down which we want to go. If we go down that route, we are going to find politics in this country becoming as toxic as they are in other countries. Everyone in the House knows there is a certain element of performativeness to what happens in this Chamber, but even if there is vigorous and abrasive debate, afterwards, we are still able to engage in a friendly manner with each other. That is something that is important and we should seek to try to retain it.
I am also concerned that the Members who just recently got elected to this Dáil during the previous election may think that this is the normal way to behave; it is not. It is not normal, in my experience as a Member of Dáil Eireann for nine years, that people are shouted down.
Another thing we have to be careful of is that the way we resolve contentious issues in this Chamber is to have a vote. We determine the issue by a vote. Many of us do not like the result of the vote. We were in opposition for many years and did not like the result of the vote, but if a vote is taken, that issue is determined. If we do not respect that vote, we are going to find ourselves in a difficult position. I would hope at the end of this debate when there is a vote that people will accept the outcome of it because if we do not accept the outcome of votes in this Chamber, we are in a very different position to where we have been at any stage previously.
Like other Deputies, I believe this row has gone on for too long. It needs to be brought to a conclusion. The way it should be brought to a conclusion is through the normal democratic process of a vote. I will ask members of the Opposition and, indeed, all Members of the House to accept the votes of the House. If there is a vote at the end of this process that goes one way, let us just abide by that vote and get on with our business.
I am not attributing any blame to individuals as to why we do not have committees, but I will say this as Minister for Justice: there is a battalion of work that needs to be done, and I need committees there. I need Opposition spokespersons in committee holding me to account. I ask that we do that as quickly as possible.
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
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As I rise to my feet to express confidence in the Ceann Comhairle, I reflect on 106 years of Dáil Eireann, during that time from its first sitting on 21 January 1919, with the revolutionary Irish Republic being formed with some of its Members still in prison, to 9 March 1932 when we had that first changeover of power between two parties, when reportedly some Members of this House carried weapons into the Dáil Chamber only for W. T. Cosgrave to intervene and ensure a peaceful passing over of power.
This House has seen many crises, from the Emergency in the Second World War - it sat throughout all of those times - to the oil crisis in the 1970s, the emigration crisis of the 1980s, the Troubles in the North throughout all those generations and the havoc it wreaked on our country, the economic crisis of 2008 and, more recently, Brexit in 2016, the pandemic in 2020 when we had to cross the River Liffey to go over to the convention centre to continue this work of Parliament, and the Ukrainian crisis of 2022 with the illegal invasion and cost-of-living crisis that came from that. Tomorrow, we face another big challenge. Thousands of workers around the country right now are driving home from work worried about whether they will still have a job in the weeks and months ahead. They are worried about what might happen with the cost of living depending on what comes out or what decisions are announced by the US and what response comes from the EU. In all of the big things that have happened in the Dáil, never was a majority Government blocked from being formed like what happened here on 22 January. Never before did we have a day like today where we had a vote of no confidence in the Ceann Comhairle.
On reflecting on all of this and on the issue at hand, the one thing that strikes me is the complete lack of proportionality from the Opposition on this issue. The response has been disproportionate to the issue at hand when we consider the history of this House and all that has happened here before.
I ask for the Opposition to accept the democratic vote that will happen in this House today. The reason there is a motion of confidence in the Ceann Comhairle is because the Opposition had problems with how she called a vote last week, a vote that was an orchestrated attempt to not allow her to call it. I saw contrived attempts, led by Sinn Féin and others, to shout her down. I ask the Opposition to accept the democratic vote and let us get on with the work and business of this Parliament. Let us form our Oireachtas committees and let us have an end to the coalition of chaos from the Opposition.
Dara Calleary (Mayo, Fianna Fail)
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Were this vote to succeed this evening and the Ceann Comhairle to lose the confidence of the House, a new Ceann Comhairle would have to be elected. We all have to ask ourselves, had anyone else sat in that Chair last Tuesday, would it have been different? It would not, because what happened was definitely orchestrated, organised and determined.
The criticisms that are being made of the Ceann Comhairle and how she managed the Standing Orders are being made in the context of this atmosphere in the Chamber where everybody is listening regardless of whether we disagree. That certainly was not present last Tuesday. It was impossible to hear. It was impossible because it was orchestrated - shouting and roaring by a minority of Deputies, but vocally very loud.
I have had five Ceann Comhairles and six Leas-Cheann Comhairles, Deputy McGuinness included, and every time there have been disagreements between Government and Opposition and the Ceann Comhairle or Leas-Cheann Comhairle of the day. There has never been a Dáil where the Ceann Comhairle or Leas-Cheann Comhairle has not been criticised for how he or she interpreted the rules or Standing Orders, but never before has it been because the decision did not go the way of the Government or the way of the Opposition in line with how either side dictates it should be and has had to bring a motion of no confidence.
Deputy Murphy did her best to bring order and to continue Dáil business last Tuesday. She was faced with a barrage of noise. She has been criticised today for not using the Standing Orders, but the point is being lost that those Standing Orders are the scaffolding around a foundation of respect, decorum and order. That foundation was gone last Tuesday. When people take the foundation away, it is very difficult to start looking for the Standing Orders to be used to suit their argument. We have to move on. We have to proceed with the business of this Dáil and this Oireachtas. There is work to be done.
It has been lost that we did exactly that last Wednesday and Thursday night, when we had very good debates on two Bills for which I am accountable, with ideas flowing over and back across the Chamber for further discussion. The Dáil showed it can move on and get its work done. Let us get on with that work.
7:15 am
Jennifer Carroll MacNeill (Dún Laoghaire, Fine Gael)
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I have two points to add to the comments made by my Government colleagues. The first is that we are temporary custodians of the processes and standards that were built before our time in the House. The Ceann Comhairle is a constitutional officeholder who was elected by the Dáil. It is disproportionate to have a motion of confidence if the only issue is the way in which she took a vote. She commenced a process a number of weeks ago whereby she invited submissions on speaking rights. Before the timeline had expired for those submissions to be made and for her to make an adjudication, a determination had been made by Members opposite.
The second point is that as well as being temporary custodians of the standards of this House, we are also democrats, and the first rule of democracy is being able to count. None of us would be here without being able to count. The Government has a majority because our numbers reflect the majority vote of the people. We cannot operate this House without respecting the basic rules of democracy. If there is a vote, we must respect its outcome. What really worries me is the language of the Leader of the Opposition, which is not reflective of that of previous Leaders, including Enda Kenny and others. She said that irrespective of the outcome of the vote on this motion, the Ceann Comhairle's position is not tenable and her credibility is in tatters. That statement represents a failure to recognise the democratic outcome of this process. It sets a tone from which we will not be able to come back. We are custodians and democrats. I urge the Leader of the Opposition to retract her comments.
Noel Grealish (Galway West, Independent)
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I am delighted to vote confidence in the Ceann Comhairle. Verona Murphy is a formidable lady and the first woman ever elected to the office. Despite encountering difficulty in carrying out the duties of the office, she has always been impartial, fair and independent in her actions.
Verona was first elected to represent Wexford in 2020. Since then, she has proven to be a strong voice for her constituents and for the Irish people. Verona was always a hard worker and a trailblazer for women. Having established her own haulage company at the age of 21, she completed her leaving certificate in her mid-30s and then a degree in law. She became the first woman president of the Irish Road Haulage Association, which was an organisation dominated by men. It is no surprise that she broke barriers once again by becoming the first woman to be elected as Ceann Comhairle.
This debate comes at a time when Ireland faces unprecedented challenges. We are wasting Dáil time on unnecessary motions when the Irish people just want us to get on with the urgent business of this House. We are debating a motion that amounts, in essence, to a row about eight minutes of speaking while we anxiously await an announcement tomorrow by President Trump on tariffs that could have massive consequences for the Irish economy. The agrifood sector accounted for €19 billion of exports from Ireland in 2024, with the US one of our largest trading partners. In 2023, Irish agrifood exports to the US were worth €1.6 billion. The main categories were beverages, worth €690 million, and dairy, which was worth more than €800 million. Any tariffs, no matter how small, could have far-reaching consequences for the agrifood sector and will affect every single corner of this country. In my county of Galway, the medical devices sector employs 15,000 people, with many thousands more employed in supporting companies. A total of 20% of all medical and pharmaceutical exports from Ireland are sent to the US.
I have full support for and confidence in Verona Murphy. I look forward to voting confidence in her.
Martin Daly (Roscommon-Galway, Fianna Fail)
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This motion is about protecting democracy and securing the institution of the office of the Ceann Comhairle. The Opposition has been attempting to undermine the authority of this House and erode trust in its institutions. Members opposite have chosen the Ceann Comhairle as the sacrificial lamb after their attempt to subvert the Government and its ability to conduct its business failed.
Let us be clear. The Ceann Comhairle has carried out her duties with fairness, consistency and full respect for the Standing Orders of the House. The recent amendments were passed by a significant majority of 21 votes, with 95 in favour and 74 against. Business is now conducted under those rules. To challenge the Ceann Comhairle's legitimacy for implementing what this House has democratically agreed is not principled; it is opportunistic. We cannot allow a precedent that confidence in the Chair is extended only where rulings are favourable. That is not democracy. It is subversion disguised as dissent. The behaviour last week was not about accountability. It was obstruction and performance. Shouting a cacophony of spittled invective down at the Chair and walking away from agreed procedure are not the actions of those who respect this Parliament. It is naked bullying and intimidation. It was ugly and unacceptable.
It is time to move forward to form committees, progress legislation and focus on the work we were elected to do. The country faces serious challenges, including in regard to housing, Trump's tariffs, disability services, war in Europe, proposed EU reforms and regulation, and competitiveness. The people expect more than provocation and theatre. Let us get back to work.
Joanna Byrne (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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In my maiden speech in December, I emphasised how I am a young woman who prides myself on breaking down barriers for women in worlds traditionally dominated by men. Verona Murphy, too, has done that as the first female Ceann Comhairle of this House. She had a chance to dispense with the old boys' club, the back-room deals, the wink-and-nudge politics and, indeed, the stroke politics. She had a chance to steer the ship straight and avoid partisan decisions, as her position demands her to do, but, regrettably, she chose not to do so. I have prided myself throughout my career on being able to work with everyone across political divides, always seeking what is the common good and not being driven by partisan views or political point scoring. I can stand over everything I say and do here, and previously as a member of Louth County Council, as being for the common good.
Unfortunately, when it comes to the running of this House, what the Ceann Comhairle has said and done so far has only been in service to the deal the Lowry grouping of Independent TDs made with Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael, which made her the Ceann Comhairle. It did not have to be so. She had a chance to prove she was truly impartial, that she was a fit Ceann Comhairle and that the suspicions around the deal that put her in her position were unfounded. This was not done. Deputy Murphy all but confirmed everybody's suspicions last week when instead of taking the chance to stamp her authority and show she is truly independent, in what looked like a co-ordinated move between her and the Government, she put aside the rules of this House and sledgehammered through the Government's interests. To compound the fact the Ceann Comhairle sided with the Government and disrespected the Opposition, when her office was contacted by Opposition Whips on the matter, they were ignored. Also ignored was the video evidence that showed last week's vote was not conducted correctly, with her office sticking to the line that everything was done in accordance with the rules of the House.
Every move around speaking time in this Chamber has been in service to Michael Lowry and his group, with Government backbenchers thrown in as an afterthought. It should not and does not need to be this way. We could have worked together, Opposition and Government representatives, at the Dáil reform committee to come to an arrangement that suited all, as was committed to by the Government, and ensure everyone had speaking time from the correct side of the House. However, Deputies opposite brought the guillotine down on that, enabled by the Ceann Comhairle. In doing the Government's bidding, she has lost the confidence of the combined Opposition. While we all know the outcome of this motion, she has a mammoth task ahead of her to rebuild the confidence and respect she needs to fulfil her duties. In the meantime, the office of the Ceann Comhairle remains compromised.
Gillian Toole (Meath East, Independent)
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I will be guided by the Clerk of the Dáil as to whether due process has been followed by the Ceann Comhairle since December 2024. The advice that was issued was that she did follow due process. For that reason, I support her in her office. I was elected to the House to work on behalf of the constituents of Meath East, to find and provide solutions to the serious challenges facing Ireland and her people, and I was happy to contribute to the programme for Government to that end.
In December, I received a dignity and respect document from the Houses of the Oireachtas Commission, as I am sure did all colleagues. In effect, what I have experienced in the past four months has been nothing other than an attempt to bully and harass by way of name calling, shouting, body language and references to lackeys, underlings, lads and, to top it all today, a reference to being intellectually inferior. How dare Members on that side of the House do so?
Noel Grealish (Galway West, Independent)
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Hear, hear. They should be ashamed of themselves.
Gillian Toole (Meath East, Independent)
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All of that makes me question the basic functioning of this Dáil. On each occasion there has been an ignoring of the requests of the Ceann Comhairle and what is set out in the dignity and respect document, which represents the very basic foundation of how we are to behave in the House, this behaviour happened when children were in the Gallery.
The word that was shouted was "shame". Well, have a look at where the shame should lie.
7:25 am
John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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I call Deputy Nolan.
Thomas Gould (Cork North-Central, Sinn Fein)
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There are 5,000 children homeless.
John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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Order, please.
Thomas Gould (Cork North-Central, Sinn Fein)
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There are 5,000-----
Carol Nolan (Offaly, Independent)
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Stop it, will you? Have respect. The Deputies are a disgrace. I spent too long with them.
I will be voting in support of the Ceann Comhairle, Deputy Verona Murphy, from one female politician to another, and as one who has had more than her fair share of spite and political attacks to contend with, particularly from one party in here. I will not sit on the fence as others have done while attempts are made to engage in what amounts to a coercive form of democratic vandalism to the constitutional offices of this State. The Ceann Comhairle was elected by the majority of this House, whether Deputies like it or not, and the Ceann Comhairle can only retain her position through a democratically endorsed ballot, whether they like it or not.
All of us here will not agree on everything, and that is politics and democracy. That is the nature of politics but we are all elected to do our jobs, and we have been unable to do our jobs in this Chamber where it has just been made impossible, as was pointed out by my colleagues, because of the atmosphere, the intimidation and the toxic environment that has been created. We should all agree that vicious personal attacks, attempts to undermine and even degrade for the purposes of pathetic political optics are unworthy of this House and the tradition on which it was built.
The Ceann Comhairle is capable of discharging her duties in a fair and impartial manner, and what has happened here over the past few weeks has been nothing short of an advertisement for women to stay away from Irish political life. It was the Deputies' own dear leader, the feminist herself, who stood up and engaged in shocking behaviour in this House. It was shocking behaviour.
Máire Devine (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
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Did the Deputy make a deal?
Carol Nolan (Offaly, Independent)
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What an example to lead by. What would that be like in government? What would the country be like? A disgrace. It is shameful. I will make my vote here today with a settled and calm conscience that this is the right thing do.
Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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As a person who nominated and voted for the outgoing Ceann Comhairle, Deputy Seán Ó Fearghaíl, who did a fine job, I accepted the democratic result when Deputy Murphy was elected Ceann Comhairle. The treatment she has been subjected to - it has been outlined by my two colleagues, so I do not have to repeat it - is nothing but shocking. I had a school group up last week; thankfully they were not here when this charade happened. Is this what the Opposition wants to call - as they have described it in the media and elsewhere - ferocious opposition?
Some people feel belittled or angry because they could not get into government. They had the chance; they did not. I want to say that I have the utmost confidence in Deputy Murphy, who has through her life, school days and working days, her education, her study of law and since she came in here, acted rightly at all times and on behalf of the people of Ireland. It is time we got down to the work we have to do, with the tariffs coming in probably tonight, and all the other issues such as housing - you name it. We need to get down to real politics here and work for the people who sent us here, and not the charades we have had here in the past number of weeks. I hope it will be a line in the sand and we will have the democratic principles of this House respected.
Helen McEntee (Meath East, Fine Gael)
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I stand in support of this motion of confidence in our Ceann Comhairle. It is hugely regrettable that we are faced with this situation in the House this evening - a motion that has come about because of the prolonged attempts by Opposition to obstruct this Dáil and the Government from getting on with their business. Every single Member of this House was democratically elected back in November. This Government, albeit with the attempt by the Opposition to obstruct us, was democratically elected and we have had a fair election of our Ceann Comhairle, who now needs to be let get on with her business. Never has it been the case, in 106 years, that the Ceann Comhairle has had the support of every single Member of this House, so to suggest otherwise is a complete falsehood. We need to make sure that we respect the democratic mandate of this House and the people who elected us.
The scenes in this House, as everybody has alluded to, from the very beginning but in particular last week, have been unedifying for anybody I spoke to. Unfortunately, we all got balled in with the same accusations. There was roaring, shouting and bawling, which are the only words that can accurately describe what was happening on the Opposition benches. It was grandstanding and obstructing business, which did nothing to make sure we focused on the issues of the day and the issues that people had elected us on.
Deputies keep saying this Dáil is doing nothing. That is not the case. This Dáil is delivering for our people. In the past number of weeks alone, working with the Minister of State, Deputy Moynihan, and the NCSE, the Government has already clarified and sanctioned 369 new additional special educational needs classes. Work is under way to make sure those classes are in place and that our young people and children and their parents are supported in the way they should be. I would say to all of our parents in particular, with World Autism Day tomorrow, that this is a Government and a Dáil that will not grandstand, walk out of the Chamber or obstruct, but one that will do every single thing possible to deliver for the people who have elected us to do such.
We have heard from many colleagues about all the challenges we are facing, from the impact of tariffs from the US to the potential loss of jobs. It is important that we protect our economy, support companies to expand and ensure that the 1 million children who will come out of school in the years ahead have access to high-quality jobs. That is why we need this Government to get on with the business we were elected to do. Regardless of what political games the Opposition plays in the Chamber, that is exactly what our focus is, that is what our priority should be, and that is what we need to do after this evening.
Norma Foley (Kerry, Fianna Fail)
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The writer Samuel Johnson has observed that "once the forms of civility are violated", kindness and decency are challenged. In our schools, we have a policy of cineáltas - kindness or civility. I am thankful that there were very few students in the Public Gallery last week to witness what happened in this Chamber, a Chamber at the heart of our democracy. Last Tuesday, civility was replaced by chaos. There were appalling scenes of vitriol, screaming, shouting, uproar and pandemonium. This is not who we are as Irish people or as democrats. This is certainly not who we are or should be as parliamentarians.
Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireann na daoine; ba chóir go mbeadh comhoibriú, meas agus ómós do gach duine. That beautiful Irish phrase reminds us that we live in the shadows of one another, and as such, there should be a prevailing environment of co-operation, respect and honour for one another, and most especially, in this House. If there were a report card from last week, it would read that this House needs to do better and this House needs to be better. As Members who have the privilege of being elected to this House, we all sign up to the Houses of the Oireachtas dignity and respect policy. One of the core principles is that we must have positive, courteous working relationships with each other, respecting the value of our respective roles.
Deputy Verona Murphy, as Ceann Comhairle, is deserving of that respect for her constitutional role in this House. She is the first woman elected to the office of Ceann Comhairle, a landmark moment and an opportunity for us to showcase that no high office is beyond the reach of any woman. However, rather than being honoured, she has been hounded. As parliamentarians, we must do better. We have a choice about how we behave in this Chamber. We have a choice to opt for civility.
Everyone knows that we in Kerry love our football and we had a good day - actually, we had a great day - last Sunday in Croke Park.
Norma Foley (Kerry, Fianna Fail)
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One of the best developments in Gaelic football has been the introduction of "hand back the ball", the rule that says when the referee blows the whistle for a foul, you hand back the ball. It is a mark of dignity and respect, and it has reduced unnecessary schemozzles, flare-ups and everything else. Colleagues, now is the time to hand back the ball to the Ceann Comhairle. Respect her office and those who work in her office. Hand back the ball; game on.
Seán Canney (Galway East, Independent)
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I want to express my total confidence in Deputy Verona Murphy as Ceann Comhairle of this House. She is a woman of great vision and strength, and it is important that she be allowed to continue as the first woman to serve as Ceann Comhairle here.
People have talked about last week and the scenes that were in here in the Chamber. I am not going to repeat them. Suffice to say, the people on the ground who I represent in Galway East were totally disgusted with what was going on here. When I was elected as a TD in the last general election, I pledged that I would do my best for the people of Galway East, and also for the country.
7 o’clock
We have major issues in terms of housing, delivering infrastructure and disabilities in this country. I could sit on the sidelines and talk about them all day, but I decided it was best to go into government. With the Minister of State, Deputy Harkin, Michael Lowry and the other people, we formed a negotiation document for Government. We spent weeks putting it together, including Saturdays and Sundays, with Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael, with the purpose of forming a government in order to do what we were elected to do. I am proud to have been part of that and to be a Minister of State in this Government. I hope to deliver over the coming five years. If we do not get back to the business, with the headwinds that are coming against us from Trump and whatever else, we will end up in a sorry state. We need to unite for one thing: to protect Ireland and its economy. We need to make sure that bad politics do not take over this country. If this situation happened in a pub last week, one would say drink was involved. However, there were sober people in the Chamber, shouting, roaring and being disrespectful. It was a terrible vista for politics, and I hope to God I never see it again.
7:35 am
Michael Healy-Rae (Kerry, Independent)
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When the people of Ireland voted-----
Michael Healy-Rae (Kerry, Independent)
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-----they sent people to this House to work. What people have seen since is chaos, disruption and behaviour of the worst type. Since Fianna Fáil, Fine Gael, the Regional Independent Group, and the Healy-Raes came together to form a Government, we have heard all these words such as "Lowry's lackeys", "underlings" and "a grubby deal". What is grubby about forming a Government? What is grubby about putting one's shoulder to the wheel and taking responsibility?
Aengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
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Corrupt politicians.
Michael Healy-Rae (Kerry, Independent)
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What is grubby about getting down to work for people? There is nothing wrong with that.
Aengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
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There is if they are corrupt politicians.
Máire Devine (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
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So speaks the Dáil's biggest landlord.
Michael Healy-Rae (Kerry, Independent)
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People think that if they keep repeating this, it will stick. I have news for them; they are wrong. Labour, the Social Democrats and the others, who are now firmly on the Sinn Féin leash, are being led like puppies with their new political master. If that is where they want to be, that is where they will stay. I would like to think that I have the finger on what is happening around the countryside, and last night, people in places such as Cahersiveen and Valentia Island were not impressed with what went on in the Chamber last week.
Thomas Gould (Cork North-Central, Sinn Fein)
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You have your finger in the pie.
Michael Healy-Rae (Kerry, Independent)
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You can be sure of one thing - they were not saying it was a good day for politics.
I have confidence in the Ceann Comhairle. I have confidence in a young girl who left school when she was 15 years of age. I have confidence in a young woman who went to England and worked hard in multiple jobs. I have confidence in a young woman, who, at the age of 21, bought a truck and trailer and took to the road to make a living. I have confidence in a woman who became the first female Ceann Comhairle of the Dáil. I have confidence in her ability to carry out that work in a fair and impartial way.
I have confidence in the Clerk of this Dáil and the people who work here, whose work has been questioned live on television. That is wrong. Those people are above all reproach. They are respectable people who are here impartially, and they are doing a good job.
What is going to happen after the vote? We have heard the Opposition saying it will not co-operate with pairings and it will do everything it can to be disruptive. What will the people of Ireland think of that when our Minister for agriculture, for instance, is going to have to work hard renegotiating a new Common Agriculture Policy, CAP, deal? What will happen when the Minister for Foreign Affairs has to leave the country? Will the people of Ireland thank the Opposition if it will not pair and will not roll up its sleeves and do the job it is supposed to do, which is to work on behalf of the people of Ireland?
John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Minister of State. Please conclude.
Máire Devine (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
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Your time is up.
Michael Healy-Rae (Kerry, Independent)
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All that the people watching this today want to see is the rubbish to stop and to see people continue their work.
Aengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
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The debate has concluded, a Leas-Cheann Comhairle.
Thomas Gould (Cork North-Central, Sinn Fein)
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Shocking behaviour. Disgraceful.
John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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I will put the question on the amendment.
Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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On our amendment.
Noel Grealish (Galway West, Independent)
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You should withdraw it.
Aengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
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We should withdraw the motion? It is your motion.
John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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The question is that the amendment be made. Is that agreed?
Pádraig Mac Lochlainn (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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Take note that this is how it is supposed to be done. Remember this.
Patrick O'Donovan (Limerick County, Fine Gael)
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Less patronising now.
Pádraig Mac Lochlainn (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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It should have been put last Tuesday.
Ruairí Ó MurchúMáire Devine (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
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It will not be forgotten.
Tá
Ciarán Ahern, Ivana Bacik, Cathy Bennett, Richard Boyd Barrett, John Brady, Pat Buckley, Joanna Byrne, Matt Carthy, Sorca Clarke, Michael Collins, Catherine Connolly, Rose Conway-Walsh, Ruth Coppinger, Réada Cronin, Seán Crowe, David Cullinane, Jen Cummins, Pa Daly, Máire Devine, Pearse Doherty, Paul Donnelly, Dessie Ellis, Aidan Farrelly, Mairéad Farrell, Michael Fitzmaurice, Gary Gannon, Sinéad Gibney, Thomas Gould, Ann Graves, Johnny Guirke, Eoin Hayes, Séamus Healy, Rory Hearne, Alan Kelly, Eoghan Kenny, Martin Kenny, Claire Kerrane, George Lawlor, Pádraig Mac Lochlainn, Mary Lou McDonald, Donna McGettigan, Conor McGuinness, Denise Mitchell, Paul Murphy, Johnny Mythen, Gerald Nash, Natasha Newsome Drennan, Shónagh Ní Raghallaigh, Cian O'Callaghan, Richard O'Donoghue, Robert O'Donoghue, Ken O'Flynn, Roderic O'Gorman, Louis O'Hara, Louise O'Reilly, Darren O'Rourke, Eoin Ó Broin, Donnchadh Ó Laoghaire, Ruairí Ó Murchú, Aengus Ó Snodaigh, Fionntán Ó Súilleabháin, Liam Quaide, Maurice Quinlivan, Pádraig Rice, Conor Sheehan, Marie Sherlock, Duncan Smith, Brian Stanley, Mark Wall, Charles Ward, Mark Ward.
Níl
William Aird, Catherine Ardagh, Grace Boland, Tom Brabazon, Brian Brennan, Shay Brennan, Colm Brophy, James Browne, Colm Burke, Peter Burke, Mary Butler, Paula Butterly, Jerry Buttimer, Malcolm Byrne, Thomas Byrne, Michael Cahill, Catherine Callaghan, Dara Calleary, Seán Canney, Micheál Carrigy, Jennifer Carroll MacNeill, Jack Chambers, Peter Cleere, John Clendennen, Niall Collins, John Connolly, Joe Cooney, Cathal Crowe, John Cummins, Emer Currie, Martin Daly, Aisling Dempsey, Cormac Devlin, Alan Dillon, Albert Dolan, Paschal Donohoe, Timmy Dooley, Frank Feighan, Seán Fleming, Norma Foley, Pat Gallagher, James Geoghegan, Paul Gogarty, Noel Grealish, Marian Harkin, Simon Harris, Danny Healy-Rae, Michael Healy-Rae, Barry Heneghan, Martin Heydon, Emer Higgins, Keira Keogh, John Lahart, James Lawless, Michael Lowry, Micheál Martin, David Maxwell, Paul McAuliffe, Noel McCarthy, Charlie McConalogue, Tony McCormack, Helen McEntee, Mattie McGrath, Séamus McGrath, Erin McGreehan, Kevin Moran, Aindrias Moynihan, Michael Moynihan, Shane Moynihan, Jennifer Murnane O'Connor, Michael Murphy, Joe Neville, Carol Nolan, Darragh O'Brien, Jim O'Callaghan, Maeve O'Connell, James O'Connor, Willie O'Dea, Kieran O'Donnell, Patrick O'Donovan, Ryan O'Meara, John Paul O'Shea, Christopher O'Sullivan, Pádraig O'Sullivan, Naoise Ó Cearúil, Seán Ó Fearghaíl, Naoise Ó Muirí, Neale Richmond, Peter Roche, Eamon Scanlon, Brendan Smith, Niamh Smyth, Edward Timmins, Gillian Toole, Robert Troy, Barry Ward.
Staon
Tá
William Aird, Catherine Ardagh, Grace Boland, Tom Brabazon, Brian Brennan, Shay Brennan, Colm Brophy, James Browne, Colm Burke, Peter Burke, Mary Butler, Paula Butterly, Jerry Buttimer, Malcolm Byrne, Thomas Byrne, Michael Cahill, Catherine Callaghan, Dara Calleary, Seán Canney, Micheál Carrigy, Jennifer Carroll MacNeill, Jack Chambers, Peter Cleere, John Clendennen, Niall Collins, John Connolly, Joe Cooney, Cathal Crowe, John Cummins, Emer Currie, Martin Daly, Aisling Dempsey, Cormac Devlin, Alan Dillon, Albert Dolan, Paschal Donohoe, Timmy Dooley, Frank Feighan, Seán Fleming, Norma Foley, Pat Gallagher, James Geoghegan, Paul Gogarty, Noel Grealish, Marian Harkin, Simon Harris, Danny Healy-Rae, Michael Healy-Rae, Barry Heneghan, Martin Heydon, Emer Higgins, Keira Keogh, John Lahart, James Lawless, Michael Lowry, Micheál Martin, David Maxwell, Paul McAuliffe, Noel McCarthy, Charlie McConalogue, Tony McCormack, Helen McEntee, Mattie McGrath, Séamus McGrath, Erin McGreehan, Kevin Moran, Aindrias Moynihan, Michael Moynihan, Shane Moynihan, Jennifer Murnane O'Connor, Michael Murphy, Joe Neville, Carol Nolan, Darragh O'Brien, Jim O'Callaghan, Maeve O'Connell, James O'Connor, Willie O'Dea, Kieran O'Donnell, Patrick O'Donovan, Ryan O'Meara, John Paul O'Shea, Christopher O'Sullivan, Pádraig O'Sullivan, Naoise Ó Cearúil, Seán Ó Fearghaíl, Naoise Ó Muirí, Neale Richmond, Peter Roche, Eamon Scanlon, Brendan Smith, Niamh Smyth, Edward Timmins, Gillian Toole, Robert Troy, Barry Ward.
Níl
Ciarán Ahern, Ivana Bacik, Cathy Bennett, Richard Boyd Barrett, John Brady, Pat Buckley, Joanna Byrne, Matt Carthy, Sorca Clarke, Michael Collins, Catherine Connolly, Rose Conway-Walsh, Ruth Coppinger, Réada Cronin, Seán Crowe, David Cullinane, Jen Cummins, Pa Daly, Máire Devine, Pearse Doherty, Paul Donnelly, Dessie Ellis, Aidan Farrelly, Mairéad Farrell, Michael Fitzmaurice, Gary Gannon, Sinéad Gibney, Thomas Gould, Ann Graves, Johnny Guirke, Eoin Hayes, Séamus Healy, Rory Hearne, Alan Kelly, Eoghan Kenny, Martin Kenny, Claire Kerrane, George Lawlor, Pádraig Mac Lochlainn, Mary Lou McDonald, Donna McGettigan, Conor McGuinness, Denise Mitchell, Paul Murphy, Johnny Mythen, Gerald Nash, Natasha Newsome Drennan, Shónagh Ní Raghallaigh, Cian O'Callaghan, Richard O'Donoghue, Robert O'Donoghue, Ken O'Flynn, Roderic O'Gorman, Louis O'Hara, Louise O'Reilly, Darren O'Rourke, Eoin Ó Broin, Donnchadh Ó Laoghaire, Ruairí Ó Murchú, Aengus Ó Snodaigh, Fionntán Ó Súilleabháin, Liam Quaide, Maurice Quinlivan, Pádraig Rice, Conor Sheehan, Marie Sherlock, Duncan Smith, Brian Stanley, Mark Wall, Charles Ward, Mark Ward.