Dáil debates
Thursday, 11 July 2024
Ceisteanna ar Pholasaí nó ar Reachtaíocht - Questions on Policy or Legislation
12:40 pm
Pearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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On the same issue, workers and families are continuing to struggle under the cost of living crisis. In three weeks time, the Government plans to increase the price of petrol and diesel for those same families. This is the last day that we have to stop the plan for price increases on petrol and diesel. Petrol and diesel prices are way higher than they were just a few years ago and, as has been mentioned, we are bringing in more taxes on petrol and diesel than we have ever had. These price hikes are going to hit some of the most vulnerable people hardest. They are people on low incomes, people in rural communities and people who just need the car to go to a hospital appointment, drop their children at school, travel to work and so on. In three weeks time, the Government plans to increase petrol and diesel. We have made it very clear that all of these prices need to be kept under review. This is absolutely not the time to be increasing petrol and diesel. Not only does the Government plan to do it now, but it plans a further increase in October. Why does the Government not bring a resolution before this House and call off the Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael price hike on petrol and diesel, which will kick in on 1 August?
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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In its alternative budget, Sinn Féin proposed that the excise reduction that happened should be restored in one go on 1 April of this year, unlike the Government’s step-by-step restoration. Under its plan, motorists would have seen a full 8% increase for petrol and a 6% increase for diesel on 1 April last. Once again, Sinn Féin proposes one thing in its budget proposals and then walks back from it a month later. There is no consistency in its approach.
Pearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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We said it needed to be kept under review.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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That is what you said in your budget. You would have done it all at once, back in April, with an 8% increase on petrol and a 6% increase on diesel. The Government took a different view. We wanted to try to reduce the pressures on the public, unlike the Sinn Féin proposal, and we will keep it under review.
Pearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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You cannot keep it under review because this is the last day. You cannot keep it under review unless you recall the Dáil.
Catherine Connolly (Galway West, Independent)
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Páirtí an Lucht Oibre.
Pearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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For clarification, is the Tánaiste suggesting a recall of the Dáil in the next three weeks because today is the last day that they can stop their price hikes?
Mary Butler (Waterford, Fianna Fail)
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You have been found out, Deputy.
James Lawless (Kildare North, Fianna Fail)
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You might clarify your own policy.
Pearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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We have been very clear. We said we would keep it under review. Now is not the time to be jacking up prices.
James Lawless (Kildare North, Fianna Fail)
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That is not what you said six months ago.
Catherine Connolly (Galway West, Independent)
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Deputy Doherty should resume his seat. This is not on. I call Deputy Duncan Smith of Páirtí an Lucht Oibre.
Duncan Smith (Dublin Fingal, Labour)
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Beaumont Hospital is 37 years old. Its catchment area has more than trebled since it opened yet many of the facilities remain the same. While we can talk about a number of issues in regard to Beaumont, I want to focus on capacity and space. I had the privilege of being shown around the hospital by clinicians recently. There are solutions to provide space in accident and emergency, resus and ICU so the great clinicians working there can do their jobs safely and more effectively, help more people and save more lives. However, for some reason, the management are not progressing these plans, so they are on the shelf. I am asking for ministerial intervention to include senior clinicians and management to ensure that Beaumont Hospital has the space available to provide the best service it can.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy is correct that Beaumont is one of the older national hospitals, and I think Cork University Hospital was a replication of it. I think the then Minister, Charles Haughey, decided he did not want any more new designers and he said they should just bring the plan from Beaumont to Cork, and we got a hospital much faster. They are old hospitals and they have been subject to a lot of investment since. Under the Minister’s first tranche of expanded acute bed proposals, I would have thought there might be opportunities for Beaumont. I suspect there must have been collaboration and consultation between the hospital, the HSE and the Minister in respect of that. I will talk to the Minister about it. Deputy Smith has obviously been on the ground, talking to the consultants and the hospital. I will pursue that.
Cian O'Callaghan (Dublin Bay North, Social Democrats)
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I wish to ask about the Housing Commission report. As my colleague said earlier, Dr. Aoibhinn Walsh, a leading paediatrician, is seeing children growing up in emergency accommodation presenting with rickets, skin conditions, including scabies, anaemia, faltering growth and extreme tooth decay. This is incredibly serious.
The landmark report from the Housing Commission provides a number of recommendations to tackle the housing crisis. However, the Minister for housing has claimed most of the recommendations are already being implemented. Michelle Norris, appointed to the commission by the Government, has roundly rejected this and stated: "Why would I devote two years of my life [to] coming up with [recommendations that are] already underway." The summer economic statement fails to signal the additional capital spending that will be needed on housing to start implementing the recommendations. Why is the Government sitting on the report and not implementing its recommendations?
12:50 pm
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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We are not sitting on the report. Everybody in the House should analyse the report, including the Social Democrats.
Cian O'Callaghan (Dublin Bay North, Social Democrats)
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I have.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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No, in terms of the rental market. I am not sure that what it recommends would fit with the policy platform of the Deputy's party in terms of the rental market. We need to examine it and the Department is examining it. It is a substantial and comprehensive document which merits detailed examination. Some issues are being progressed but it merits detailed examination, as opposed to soundbites and a general 1.5-page press release. It needs far more detailed assessment than that, particularly around the rental market. It states the political system has been too reactive in terms of some of the proposals and that that has done more harm than good. The party opposite needs to examine that aspect of it too. It seems to me what the Housing Commission proposes is not exactly what has been happening in the House for the past five or six years, which seems to be about measures to dampen investment.
Bríd Smith (Dublin South Central, People Before Profit Alliance)
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I am working on an issue I think will become very prevalent in social housing as build-to-rent apartments are rolled out. I am working with local people and with local councillor Hazel de Nortúin to campaign against what we are calling social segregation. In the build-to-rent model, 10% of apartments can go back to the local authority for social housing but families are now experiencing what it is like to live in these. The apartments are gorgeous but, though the contract was signed to say all amenities, including playgrounds, games rooms and shared party rooms, would be available to all in the complex, social tenant residents are locked out of those amenities. That is social segregation in Part V apartments and it is spreading like a disease through the city where these apartments are opened up. I raise it with the Tánaiste because the policy in the Department of housing, not the council, is for everybody to share all amenities. Children do not understand why they cannot use playgrounds. Explain that to a child in a wheelchair.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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They should be able to use the playgrounds.
Bríd Smith (Dublin South Central, People Before Profit Alliance)
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They are not being allowed and the Department needs to do something about it.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I will follow that up. As the Deputy said, the housing policy is that it be available to all.
Bríd Smith (Dublin South Central, People Before Profit Alliance)
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I have written to the Minister. We need to do something about it.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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There should not be social segregation. It is abhorrent to our way of thinking and values as a society. There cannot be that segregation. I will talk to the Minister on enforcement of the policy.
Matt Shanahan (Waterford, Independent)
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Last week on Leaders' Questions the Tánaiste expressed exasperation at what he sees as a false narrative I am laying concerning his support for Waterford and the south east. He mentioned University Hospital Waterford so I will put some figures on the record. The current staffing level at the hospital is 2,800 whole-time equivalents. Its peer model 4 hospitals of Limerick, Cork, Galway and St. Vincent's average 4,850. There head count at Waterford hospital is 2,000 less. The budgets for Limerick, Galway, Cork and St. Vincent's average €400 million per annum while that for University Hospital Waterford is €290 million. That is €110 million less. The hospital last year had the busiest emergency department in the country, yet no emergency staff were added to the cohort there. It has one of the largest patient catchments nationally. Despite that and its low employment numbers, it was subject to the recruitment embargo and the HSE has announced in the latest round of 2,600 additional staff that the hospital has been allocated just 40 additional posts. On top of that, the cardiac review has not reported and the seven-day service has been postponed and will not start before October.
Thomas Byrne (Meath East, Fianna Fail)
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Stop running down your own city.
Matt Shanahan (Waterford, Independent)
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Talk sense.
Mary Butler (Waterford, Fianna Fail)
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I am so proud to be from Waterford.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Deputy for his generosity of spirit in texting me on Sunday congratulating the Cork hurling team on its success.
Matt Shanahan (Waterford, Independent)
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Of course, because I am a gracious person. Of course I did.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Waterford hospital is one of the best-performing hospitals in the country. I pay tribute to all the staff who work there. We are committed to increasing investment in the hospital. In 2019, it had a budget of €201 million; in 2024, the budget is more than €290 million. That has grown by €89 million, which is a substantial investment.
Matt Shanahan (Waterford, Independent)
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That is €100 million less than its peers.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Staffing in the hospital has grown by 841, or 44%, since the end of December 2019, from 1,949 to 2,805.
Matt Shanahan (Waterford, Independent)
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Because it was the lowest in the country.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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There are 47 more consultants, 100 additional non-consultant hospital doctors and 370 more nurses and midwives, as well as 123 additional health and social care professionals. It has dramatically increased.
Mattie McGrath (Tipperary, Independent)
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Ar an gcéad dul síos, I wish the Leas-Cheann Comhairle and all the staff throughout the House the best for the summer season.
The Department of Health released the total number of notifications received last year for abortions carried out in Ireland. It showed there were 10,033 abortions in 2023, the highest number on record since the law changed in 2019. That figure represents a chilling 250% increase on the 2,879 abortions that happened in 2018, the year before the law changed.
Senior members of the Government who oversaw the introduction of the new abortion regime promised, like what happened in America, that it would be rare if people voted "Yes" in the referendum. People did vote "Yes" - 66% of them - many on the understanding it would be rare, legal and safe. What has happened? The floodgates have opened. Women in unplanned pregnancies need to be provided with information on alternatives to abortion. That has to become a priority for the Government.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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The people decided in the referendum and-----
Mattie McGrath (Tipperary, Independent)
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Not for this.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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The people decided in the referendum and governments and political parties of all persuasions must uphold the decision of the people in terms of legislating for what was decided in a constitutional referendum. That said, a range of measures have been provided for and funded. Free contraception up to the age of 35 is a significant measure and an enhancement of what went before. There have been many interventions in education and so forth in dealing with this issue. There has been a substantial reduction in teen pregnancies, for example, because of a range of measures.
Thomas Pringle (Donegal, Independent)
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Publication by The Ditch of the Attorney General's advice on defective blocks is doing citizens some service. The issue was caused by previous governments moving to self-certification of building materials rather than the State enforcing quality on them. Does the Tánaiste agree with the Attorney General's advice that the terms of the scheme will affect the number of applicants? Does he agree with the Attorney General that, as sure as night follows day, if homeowners are grant-aided to rebuild their homes, more will want to? Has the scheme been about reducing cost rather than assisting homeowners?
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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The answer is it has not been about reducing cost because the older scheme in 2019 was far inferior and costs have gone up dramatically. As I said earlier, the provision for the costs is about €2.3 billion. I do not understand how anyone could say that amounts to reducing costs. We have increased the maximum grant available to €420,000. On top of that, recipients get the SEAI grant for including retrofit measures as the house is being repaired, refurbished or built anew. The applications are coming in. We need to accelerate work on getting the job done, notwithstanding challenges with construction, getting builders and so on. We have provided for many issues not provided for in the previous scheme, including preliminary costs around engineering. The Deputy knows it.
Thomas Pringle (Donegal, Independent)
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You still have not-----
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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And also in terms of rental and so on like that.
Thomas Pringle (Donegal, Independent)
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It is still affecting homeowners.
Catherine Connolly (Galway West, Independent)
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Ag bogadh ar aghaidh, an Teachta Niamh Smyth.
Pádraig Mac Lochlainn (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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It is one rule for the east coast and one for the west.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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You settled for less.
Pádraig Mac Lochlainn (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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It is 100% for the east but not for the west. That is what you stood over.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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You settled for less in 2019.
Catherine Connolly (Galway West, Independent)
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Deputies, please.
Pádraig Mac Lochlainn (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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It was the Minister, Deputy McConalogue. The Tánaiste did the same, as did his campaigners. It is 100% for the east but not 100% for the west.
1:00 pm
Catherine Connolly (Galway West, Independent)
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Does Deputy Mac Lochlainn have any respect for the Chair?
Pádraig Mac Lochlainn (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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It is second-class citizenship and the Tánaiste knows it.
Catherine Connolly (Galway West, Independent)
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I ask Deputy Mac Lochlainn to stop.
Pádraig Mac Lochlainn (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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It is second-class citizenship for victims in the west.
Catherine Connolly (Galway West, Independent)
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I have rarely said it, but Deputy Mac Lochlainn is completely and utterly out of order.
Pádraig Mac Lochlainn (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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If the Taoiseach would honestly answer the question-----
Catherine Connolly (Galway West, Independent)
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The Deputy is out of order. This is not an interchange. He is out of order.
Pádraig Mac Lochlainn (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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I will respect An Leas-Cheann Comhairle. I am disappointed as always with the Taoiseach.
Catherine Connolly (Galway West, Independent)
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I presume that is an apology.
Pádraig Mac Lochlainn (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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I apologise to An Leas-Cheann Comhairle, but not to the Taoiseach - or Tánaiste.
Catherine Connolly (Galway West, Independent)
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I call Deputy Smyth.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I appreciate that Deputy Mac Lochlainn referred to me as the Taoiseach. I clearly made a lasting impact on him.
Pádraig Mac Lochlainn (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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He might be the Tánaiste again after the next election.
Catherine Connolly (Galway West, Independent)
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I know it is the last day of term but I am not moving on with this zig and zag. I am simply not doing it. I call Deputy Niamh Smyth.
Niamh Smyth (Cavan-Monaghan, Fianna Fail)
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I wish to raise the matter around the needs of special needs children and young people across Cavan and Monaghan. First, I thank the Minister, Deputy Norma Foley, who kindly reached out and met with the parents from Special Needs Active Parents, SNAP, which is a very articulate organisation of parents who represent the needs of their children in County Monaghan. I also thank the Minister of State, Deputy Anne Rabbitte, who kindly came to the constituency and has provided assurances that respite services will indeed be provided into the future.
Today, I wish to raise the absolute need for a special school for the children in County Monaghan. Currently, all these kids in Cavan and Monaghan are attending the Holy Family School. While it is a state-of-the-art facility, it is only one school and it is not enough for it to have the capacity to deal with children in both Cavan and Monaghan. The parents rightly demand their own special school for County Monaghan. I ask the Tánaiste to do whatever it takes and to work with the Minister, Deputy Norma Foley, to deliver that. I also ask the Tánaiste to look at the possibility for day services for these children when they leave school. We currently do not have this in County Monaghan.
To wrap up, can the Minister of State, Deputy Anne Rabbitte, give us some sense as to when the Irish Wheelchair Association in County Cavan will have its in-person service back again?
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I appreciate the Minister, Deputy Foley, and the Minister of State, Deputy Anne Rabbitte, met with SNAP, which is the parent representative body. Obviously, as regard to decisions that are required for a new school, it does not happen overnight, as Deputy Smyth will know. I refer to decisions about the type of school and the range and spectrum of additional needs which would be catered for. All of that must be factored in. I have no doubt the Minister, Deputy Foley, and the Minister of State, Deputy Rabbitte, will give a detailed response to the need for a new school, as has been articulated by the parents.
The Minister of State, Deputy Rabbitte, met with the Irish Wheelchair Association last Friday. Hopefully, she will be in a position to indicate progress in this regard.
Brian Stanley (Laois-Offaly, Sinn Fein)
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I wish to raise the issue of the cross-Border health programme and its funding. Some of the people who go to the North for cataract surgery have been waiting for four or five years. It is a scandal in itself that we cannot do this surgery in this State. However, people, who are, typically, elderly, are going to the North to have this surgery. The cost of it is just in excess of €2,000. Until recently, the reimbursement was to the tune of €1,928. As the Tánaiste and I know, many of these people have taken credit union loans out for this. Without any warning, the HSE has now slashed this reimbursement to €863. I have a letter from a clinic in Belfast stating it has been notified of this by the HSE. The first question I have is whether this decision was taken on the orders of a Government Minister. There are two Ministers of State here from the Department of Health. This has now blocked off one of the few remaining avenues elderly people, and people who have bad cataract problems, had to actually get their eyes done. It has blocked this off. Can the Tánaiste come back to me on this matter?
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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First, the Government provided this cross-Border healthcare programme to substitute for the older-----
Brian Stanley (Laois-Offaly, Sinn Fein)
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It has gone from €1,928 to €863.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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-----European programme. Brexit put paid to that programme. Therefore, the Government intervened to create a bespoke cross-Border mechanism in respect of cross-Border services, particularly in the area of cataracts. As for the cost and so on, a lot depends on how much private operators are charging in the North. Obviously, the HSE reviews this on an ongoing basis. I will get further background on this for Deputy Stanley.
Brian Stanley (Laois-Offaly, Sinn Fein)
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The Tánaiste promised me last week he would come back to me and he has not done so. Can he ensure I get reply on this?
Darren O'Rourke (Meath East, Sinn Fein)
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This morning, the Climate Change Advisory Council published its built environment annual review 2024. It wants to see the ambition and rate of upgrades to social homes doubled. It highlights the need for special measures to support older people to achieve warmer, more comfortable, healthier homes. It highlights that many of the worst performing homes are likely to be owned by older people and householders who are least likely to be able to afford works. This echoes Social Justice Ireland, Friends of the Earth, the Society of St. Vincent de Paul and Sinn Féin's calls and proposals for a fair retrofitting plan. We need a review of the national retrofit plan to ensure supports are targeted to those most in need. Can the Tánaiste commit to that?
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I welcome the Deputy's acknowledgement of the importance of the retrofit programme.
Darren O'Rourke (Meath East, Sinn Fein)
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For sure.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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There would be no retrofitting, from a climate perspective, it if was not for the carbon tax, which has given us the revenue to enable us-----
Darren O'Rourke (Meath East, Sinn Fein)
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That is the Government's approach. It is not the Sinn Féin approach.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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-----to do the first ever comprehensive retrofit scheme, which includes both social housing, housing for the elderly and-----
Darren O'Rourke (Meath East, Sinn Fein)
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Sinn Féin would spend more money and deliver more retrofits. If the Government followed our plan and listened to the Climate Change Advisory Council-----
Catherine Connolly (Galway West, Independent)
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Deputy------
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Sinn Féin opposed the carbon tax. The reality is the retrofit programme would not be possible at all. Sinn Féin needs to get its house in order in respect of a coherent plan.
Darren O'Rourke (Meath East, Sinn Fein)
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Is the Government listening to the Climate Change Advisory Council, Social Justice Ireland and the Society of St. Vincent de Paul?
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Yes, we want more to do with them, but you are not.
Catherine Connolly (Galway West, Independent)
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I am moving on. I will ask for the last time. We are going to run over time and I am asking for the co-operation of Members. We must let the speaker and the Tánaiste reply. I call Deputy David Stanton.
David Stanton (Cork East, Fine Gael)
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Does the Tánaiste agree with me that many farmers are facing fodder shortages in the coming winter? Does he further agree with me that there is now a need to introduce a fodder production incentive scheme to encourage and support farmers to sow forage crops on their land, as happened in 2018?
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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There are ongoing challenges in agriculture, particularly because of climate, inclement weather and changing and uncertain weather patterns. It seems to me, from people to whom I have been talking recently, that there is a particular challenge on the tillage side. We will keep this under review.
Jackie Cahill (Tipperary, Fianna Fail)
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A deer management group was set up over 12 months ago. Everyone at this stage agrees a deer cull is absolutely essential. There are three main reasons for it, namely, there is a welfare issue as the natural habitats of the deer are not able to feed them anymore due to the very large numbers of deer; there is a serious road safety issue in that the number of car crashes in rural areas because of deer is increasing by the day; and there is a risk to the health of the bovine herd due to the spread of bovine tuberculosis. How much resources are going to be allocated to this essential cull and when will it commence?
Malcolm Noonan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Green Party)
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Gabhaim buíochas leis an Teachta Cahill as an gceist seo a ardú. First, the deer management report, which was led by Mr. Teddy Cashman, was a really excellent piece of work. The Minister, Deputy Charlie McConalogue, and I have been working on this. We have implemented some of the short-term measures already. I am reaching out to the Minister, Deputy McConalogue, to meet to discuss this further to look at the short-term, medium-term and long-term objectives of it. It is resource intensive. It will require a significant amount of resources across the State to try to bring down the number of deer across the country to manageable levels for woodland management, road safety and sustainable agriculture.
Johnny Guirke (Meath West, Sinn Fein)
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The Tánaiste asked people here about priorities for the budget. The number of people who are homeless or in homeless emergency accommodation now stands at 14,159, of whom 4,316 are children. In 2015, this number stood at 3,600 and most people thought it could not get any worse. One service dealing with homeless people is A Lending Hand and its director Ms Keira Gill. While charities and organisations are doing their best, they do not have enough financial resources. This is evident when thousands of people are now looking for help. The director of Advocacy, Mr. Mike Allen, said that having any person living on our streets was both morally unacceptable and, with more effective policies, entirely avoidable.
Last Saturday, the bodies of two homeless men, Donal Scanlon, 49, and Alex Warnick, 42, were taken from the Grand Canal near Dublin city centre. One floral tribute left along the canal read, "May you rest in peace. Our Government has absolutely failed you. I hope where you have gone is better than this hellhole". In this rich country, with the budget coming up and with billions being talked about in tax and spending packages, I am asking for a priority to be included to solve the homeless crisis and to give children who are being brought up in emergency accommodation a chance in life.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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The Government has continually prioritised the homelessness issue.
Government has provided increased funding, year after year, to many of the social housing providers and approved housing bodies, AHB, quite an extensive number of which receive very substantial funding. As I said in an earlier reply, our focus has been on prevention where we have had significant success-----.
1:10 pm
Johnny Guirke (Meath West, Sinn Fein)
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The Tánaiste calls that success.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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-----in exiting people out of emergency accommodation more quickly than would have been the case before. We have built more houses in the past four years than were built in the previous ten. We intend to continue to build more houses, particularly social houses, to deal with the social housing crisis and the issue of homelessness. Homelessness is a multifaceted and complex issue. I would not simplify it to the degree the Deputy did earlier.
Johnny Guirke (Meath West, Sinn Fein)
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There were 3,500 people homeless in 2015.
Mark Ward (Dublin Mid West, Sinn Fein)
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I am speaking on behalf of the residents of Lucan Lodge Nursing Home and their loved ones. The HSE has taken temporary control of the home and its operation. Lucan Lodge is a test for the State's priorities. Is the Government willing to lose the 74 beds there. The number of nursing home beds has decreased under this Government's watch. I have been constantly calling for engagement between the Department of Health and the owner of Lucan Lodge. This has not happened. The owner has said that he is willing to foot any bill necessary to get Lucan Lodge up to a standard that would allow the residents to remain there. The Government must ensure that the residents of Lucan Lodge are not exposed to transfer trauma. Will the Department of Health engage with the owner, because this has not happened? Can the funds be found to make sure Lucan Lodge is brought up to the required standard and can the residents remain in their home? A solution was found for Cherry Orchard and a solution must be found for the residents of Lucan Lodge and their loved ones.
Mary Butler (Waterford, Fianna Fail)
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As the Deputy said, HIQA had to remove the registration for this nursing home. The HIQA report is there for everyone to see. The HSE, which is the provider of last resort, moved on to the site. While it was undertaking routine water-quality sampling, the situation changed significantly because positive legionella results at very high levels were returned across the site. This causes legionnaires' disease-----
Mark Ward (Dublin Mid West, Sinn Fein)
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Solutions have been found in HSE nursing homes for the same thing.
Mary Butler (Waterford, Fianna Fail)
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Excuse me. Legionnaires' disease is very serious. In consultation with public health, a water-quality committee meeting was convened and a plan was immediately put in place to urgently address the situation. This included the implementation of immediate control measures. These measures can only be addressed, and the immediate risk can only be removed, when all the residents vacate the premises. I cannot ignore HIQA or public health, and I will not ignore the HSE. These residents have to be kept safe.
Michael McNamara (Clare, Independent)
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I wish to return to an issue which we have previously discussed. I refer to the oversight of the international protection accommodation services, IPAS, spending on direct-provision accommodation. Last week, I asked the Minister responsible how many inspections had been carried out by the compliance team or by independent inspection companies in the first half of 2024. Within three days I received a reply that stated, "My officials are collating the information sought and will respond in due course". Of those inspections, I asked how many compliance issues were identified, including those of a financial nature such as suspected overpayments. Again, I got a reply which stated, "My officials are collating the information sought and will respond in due course". I cannot help but wonder if this is to do with the fact that I will no longer be around to ask difficult questions. I would hope not, because this raises an issue of transparency in respect of the spending State money. Those who issued the reply did confirm that there are investigations into overclaiming and overspending going on. Even if this does pass muster with the Ceann Comhairle's office, is the Tánaiste happy that there is transparency in how money is being spent by IPAS on direct-provision accommodation?
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I would hate to think that there are any public servants counting the days until the Deputy leaves to go to the European Parliament.
Michael McNamara (Clare, Independent)
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So would I, or politicians either. I might even be counting the days.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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It would shock me that there would be people counting the days, although not everyone has the Deputy's uniquely creative approach to issues. I mean that as a compliment.
Compliance is taken seriously by the Minister for children and his Department. There is no doubt that there has been an unprecedented increase. Some 31,000 people, of whom some 8,000 are children, are now living in IPAS accommodation. There have been compliance issues. The Minister is working to deal with those. Where compliance issues emerge, he is working on a programme of reducing the numbers of those who are not compliant by moving them from that accommodation and into a more-----
Michael McNamara (Clare, Independent)
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Will the answer be factual or creative?
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I hope it will be factual. The word "collation"-----
Michael McNamara (Clare, Independent)
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So do I.
Catherine Connolly (Galway West, Independent)
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Can we please get back to what we are doing? There are four people left and we are over time. I ask for Deputies co-operation. I call Deputy Bruton.
Richard Bruton (Dublin Bay North, Fine Gael)
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Like my good colleague and fellow Meath man, I read the climate advisory report this morning. It shows that residential building is the only area where we are on target to meet out climate budget. It commended the Government on the 80% take up in the retrofitting loan scheme and one-stop shop. However, the report recommends targeted interventions. I would like the Tánaiste to look at these. There are 250,000 homes built post 2007 that are still using oil. These could switch to using heat pumps. I also ask him to consider older persons who are above the fuel threshold but often live in very energy-inefficient homes.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Deputy. I have no doubt that he read the report from cover to cover. During my time as Minister for Education, the Deputy was my Opposition counterpart. I know from his diligence and his work that he would read every report that was ever published. I take his point that the retrofit programme has been a success. However, he makes a fair point about the 250,000 houses using oil. The question is whether we can transition them to heat pumps more quickly. I also accept the point about older people above the free fuel threshold. We have a bit more work to do in terms, perhaps, of reconfiguring the schemes to target what has been identified by the advisory council as to where we can do better in respect of certain aspects of the programme. Deputy Bruton read the report. I do not think Deputy O'Rourke did.
Darren O'Rourke (Meath East, Sinn Fein)
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I did. In fact I have it here in front of me.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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That does not mean the Deputy read it.
Matt Carthy (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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I do not know if the Tánaiste has had a chance to reread the letter he wrote to the grieving mother of Shane O'Farrell in December 2019. In it, the Tánaiste told her that she could be assured of his continued support for a public inquiry to be set up. Six months after that letter was sent to Lucia O'Farrell, the Tánaiste became Taoiseach. In his time as Taoiseach, he did nothing to advance that pledge. Last night, for a second time, the Dáil passed a resolution calling for a public inquiry into the death of Shane O'Farrell and the actions of State agencies. Bizarrely, the Tánaiste and his colleagues in Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael, including three Members from Shane's constituency, abstained in the vote on the motion. Members of the Tánaiste's party who sat in the O'Farrell's kitchen and promised them that they would do everything in their power to ensure that this inquiry was set up, abstained. My question is very simple. Will the Tánaiste now ensure that the public inquiry into the death of Shane O'Farrell will finally be established? If he does not, what does that say about his integrity and that of his party, that he would write such a letter to a grieving family and make such a commitment, when it seems clear that he had no intention of fulfilling it?
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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That is not the case. I will not take lectures from the Deputy in terms of how to communicate with grieving families. and how his party has communicated with grieving families down through the decades.
Matt Carthy (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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Is that the Tánaiste's answer?
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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No, it is not. I am just making the point. The scoping inquiry and the publication of Judge Haugton's report into-----
Matt Carthy (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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The scoping inquiry was established when the Tánaiste wrote that letter.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy made assertions. After the Dáil resolution of a number of years ago calling for a public inquiry, the scoping inquiry was established.
Matt Carthy (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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After that, the Tánaiste wrote that letter.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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It took much longer than anyone anticipated - about three to four years - for the report to emerge. It was a comprehensive inquiry. The Government has now decided to refer it to the justice committee. Two weeks ago, other Deputies raised the matter during Questions on Policy or Legislation. I suggested that I would like to talk to members of other parties to see if there is a way through on this issue.
Matt Carthy (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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There is. Set up a public inquiry. Will the Government do that?
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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The Ceann Comhairle said he would be interested in convening meetings of party representatives to see if we can find a route through. I would now have ethical issues about another inquiry going on for four or five years or maybe longer. There have been lots of inquiries that did not give victims their-----
Matt Carthy (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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Seriously. The Tánaiste is saying he has ethical issues.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I am willing to work with the Ceann Comhairle and other parties to find a route through here and to facilitate the airing of some of the issues that people are perhaps not happy with in respect of the scoping inquiry.
Matt Carthy (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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People want a public inquiry.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy's motion came in between that process. That is his business; that is what he is entitled to do, but I think there is a better way of dealing with this.
Matt Carthy (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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It was done in conjunction with the O'Farrell family. The Tánaiste committed to a public inquiry.
I am asking him will he stand by his commitment. The answer is clearly "No". That is shameful, quite frankly.
1:20 pm
Catherine Connolly (Galway West, Independent)
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This is promised legislation. The Deputy has gone way over time. It is an extremely important issue. I have given great lenience on it. It is up to one minute. Please. I am moving on to the last two speakers. It is up to one minute. I call Deputy Troy.
Robert Troy (Longford-Westmeath, Fianna Fail)
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Earlier this year, the Minister, Deputy Foley, published the review of the school transport scheme and the proposed changes. It was very welcome. The report was long overdue. It is a scheme that does need modernisation to take account of the travelling patterns of children going to school today. However, I am concerned that some of the proposals will take some years to implement. There is a situation in Delvin in County Westmeath where 36 students have applied for school transport tickets but they will not get a school bus. They will have to go on a private bus. Castledaly in County Westmeath needs a larger school bus or for the current school bus to do two trips to support working parents to have public transport to bring their children to school. Will the Tánaiste engage with the Minister for Education to ensure that some of the more practical, flexible proposals under the school transport review could be implemented this September so that we support children to go to school on public transport?
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I will engage with the Minister for Education in respect of the Delvin situation which the Deputy mentioned and also more broadly on introducing the practical measures contained in the school transport review as effectively as possible within the funding framework. It is the largest review of the school transport scheme since it was established in 1967. About 135,000 children are now carried every day by our school transport system. There will be a phased implementation of the review’s recommendations commencing this September. That will include a shared effort between the Departments of Education and Transport to pilot greater integration of transport networks with school transport routes. Planned pilot projects will commence in 2024-25. Families and schools in the pilot areas will be contacted this week and further information will be provided to Oireachtas Members shortly.
Paul Donnelly (Dublin West, Sinn Fein)
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A parent received a letter from the Blakestown community disability network team which stated:
your child meets the criteria for supports for the interdisciplinary team. Your child is on the waitlist for services since the date of receipt of referral,1/11/2021.
Currently there are extensive waiting times in excess of 72 months for the team...
Does the Tánaiste believe that this is now a crisis that needs immediate emergency measures?
Catherine Connolly (Galway West, Independent)
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I thank the Deputy for his brevity.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I do believe there is a very serious issue here in relation to children’s access to therapy. There are recruitment issues within the HSE but in my view we must look at other mechanisms and initiatives to deal with this. We are dealing with this at Cabinet subcommittee level at the moment and will be pursuing alternative approaches. However, that length of time is not acceptable.
Catherine Connolly (Galway West, Independent)
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I wish everyone a very happy summer. I have to change humour to wish you all that.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Leas-Cheann Comhairle for her help and co-operation and all of the ushers in the Dáil as well for all their support, and the staff in general.
Catherine Connolly (Galway West, Independent)
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Particularly all the staff and the ushers.