David Stanton (Cork East, Fine Gael)
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83. To ask the Minister for Education and Skills further to Parliamentary Questions Nos. 330 of 21 May 2024 and 95 of 29 May 2024, and Topical Issue No. 4 of 2 July 2024, if she is aware of the situation pertaining to a school (details supplied); if she has decided to offer any support; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [30281/24]

David Stanton (Cork East, Fine Gael)
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The Minister and I have had a number of discussions about Fermoy Educate Together National School. I visited the place and am sorry to bring it up again, but I am very concerned about the cramped conditions in the school. I am asking the Minister what progress has been made since I brought it up last. Have the officials in the Department examined this matter? Have they looked at possible solutions? I suggested one or two when I spoke with the Minister the last time I raised this.

Norma Foley (Kerry, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Deputy. I acknowledge his ongoing engagement on this matter and that of Deputy O'Connor and the other Deputies who are concerned about it. I appreciate Deputy Stanton and I have had a number of conversations on this.

The school was established in 2018 under the patronage divestment process. Fermoy was one of a number of areas surveyed in 2012 and 2013 under the patronage divesting process where there was sufficient parental demand supporting changes in school patronage. The areas surveyed were areas where demographics were not growing and therefore it was unlikely a new multidenominational school would be established for demographic reasons. That is important. It was acknowledged at the time there might be a demographic need for the school, but there was a choice need from a parental point of view. The clear policy on patronage divesting was to use existing educational infrastructure to facilitate provision of diversity in areas where there was no demographic imperative. The reason for this approach was the imperative, which is equally valid now as it was then, to focus the schools capital programme on the provision of additional mainstream and special education school places at both primary and post-primary levels to ensure every pupil can access a school place.

As part of the process of identifying a suitable accommodation solution that would facilitate the establishment of the school, the Department liaised with Cork Education and Training Board, ETB. In order to facilitate the establishment of the new school, the ETB agreed to the co-location of the Educate Together school at the former technical school in Fermoy, together with some of the ETB’s further education and training services. Prior to the establishment of the new school in 2018 under the patronage divesting process, the Department and Educate Together, as school patron, agreed that given the accommodation available at the property and the need for the ETB to accommodate some further education and training services from the property, the school would be established as a four-classroom school and would maintain this configuration in the accommodation in the former technical school unless an existing school building was freed up for use in the area. As part of this engagement, the Department outlined to the school patron the importance of enrolments being managed within the available accommodation in a sustainable way and that this would be communicated to the school's board of management so parents could be fully informed and in order to manage the situation going forward.

David Stanton (Cork East, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Minister for her response and her interest in this matter. Does she agree that things have moved on in the interim? Does she also agree that because of the popularity of the school, the professionalism of the teachers and the desire of more and more parents to send their children there, numbers are growing and that there is a need to look again at the agreement that was arrived at? This was the first school I taught in 46 years ago, if the Minister can believe it. That is a long time. I know the place well, but it is extremely cramped. The Minister of State should note that there is also pressure to have an autism class in the school. The latter is impossible to accommodate because it is so cramped. There is no space. They are teaching in cupboards and working in very small rooms that are way below the statutory requirements for classrooms nowadays. There is a space in the interim to possibly put some Portakabins on site to relieve the pressure, but I put it to the Minister that in the longer term a new building is needed. Will she get her officials to look at this as soon as possible?

Norma Foley (Kerry, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Deputy very much. For absolute clarity, I reiterate that when the school was inaugurated in 2018, this was done under the patronage divesting process. There was an agreement with the patron of the Educate Together school and the ETB that it would be a shared campus and the school would be capped at the numbers at the time, in a four-classroom school, until additional accommodation became available. That was the agreement. It was signed up to on behalf of the school by the patron. Somewhere along the line that understanding and clarity have been lost. I reiterate that there was an agreement signed up to by the patron on behalf of the school and that agreement stands until something else becomes available. For whatever reason, we are in the situation we are in now and I recognise that.

I want to move the situation forward. A technical assessment has recently taken place. We will evaluate that technical assessment. I have asked the building officer for Educate Together to engage with the school on the ground. We will continue to engage, but there was a clear, signed agreement by a patron on behalf of the school.

David Stanton (Cork East, Fine Gael)
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I appreciate that and agree with the Minister there was an agreement, but I also believe, and she might also, that things have moved on now and parental choice is coming in here in a big way. There is a big demand in the area for this particular school as it is a very successful and popular school. I again put it to the Minister that there is an interim solution available. The Department of Education, I understand, owns the property and the Minister said it is until something else comes along or is made available. That is possible now with a bit of support from the Department in the short term. In the longer term, I put it to the Minister we need to move beyond that agreement, which is outdated because of the numbers in the school, the demand for places and the choice parents want to make.

Norma Foley (Kerry, Fianna Fail)
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Again, we want to be helpful here. It is for that reason we ensured a technical assessment would take place to see if we can find a pathway forward. There was the request to the building officer from Educate Together to engage with the school on the ground. We want to move a step forward. However it is important - and I do not always hear this element being recognised or admitted to in discussions I have heard in other contexts - that there was an agreement in the first instance with the patron on behalf of the school to cap the school numbers at a particular level to suit the accommodation available. That agreement was unequivocal. There was absolute clarity on it. What happened in the intervening time is not the fault of the Department of Education and in the interests of fairness all round, when that matter and the issue pertaining to this school is being discussed, that should also be part of the discussion.

David Stanton (Cork East, Fine Gael)
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Of course.