Dáil debates

Wednesday, 10 July 2024

Ceisteanna - Questions

British-Irish Co-operation

1:20 pm

Photo of Brendan SmithBrendan Smith (Cavan-Monaghan, Fianna Fail)
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1. To ask the Taoiseach if he will report on his attendance at the British-Irish Council summit in the Isle of Man on 21 June. [27599/24]

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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2. To ask the Taoiseach if he will report on the 41st summit meeting of the British-Irish Council in the Isle of Man that he attended. [28373/24]

Photo of Mick BarryMick Barry (Cork North Central, Solidarity)
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3. To ask the Taoiseach if he will report on his attendance at the British-Irish Council summit in the Isle of Man on 21 June 2024. [29220/24]

Photo of Mary Lou McDonaldMary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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4. To ask the Taoiseach if he will report on his attendance at the British-Irish Council. [29222/24]

Photo of Duncan SmithDuncan Smith (Dublin Fingal, Labour)
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5. To ask the Taoiseach to report on his attendance at the British-Irish Council summit. [29421/24]

Photo of Simon HarrisSimon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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I propose to take Questions Nos. 1 to 5, inclusive, together.

I attended the 41st British-Irish Council summit, hosted by the Isle of Man, on 21 June. The Minister, Deputy Darragh O'Brien, represented the Government at the summit dinner the night before. The council welcomed the restoration of the Northern Ireland Assembly, Executive and the North-South Ministerial Council and the return to the British-Irish Council of the First and deputy First Ministers. It is important and positive that all three strands of the Good Friday Agreement are now fully operational again.

I updated the council on recent EU and international engagements. The theme of this summit was unlocking the economic and social opportunities of renewables across these islands. I detailed the Government's ambitions for offshore wind energy included in the programme for Government and our industrial strategy for offshore wind. We discussed the importance of co-operation and shared learning between our administrations, such as the memorandum of understanding on co-operation in the energy transition, offshore renewables and electricity interconnection, signed by Ireland and the UK in September 2023.

On the margins of the summit, I held a bilateral meeting with the First Minister of Scotland, John Swinney. We discussed the strong relationship that has long existed between Ireland and Scotland, and the potential of a new co-operation framework for the post-2025 period. The Scottish Government will host the next British-Irish Council summit in Edinburgh in December.

Photo of Brendan SmithBrendan Smith (Cavan-Monaghan, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Taoiseach for his reply. The last time we discussed Northern Ireland here, I referred to the his attendance and participation at the British-Irish Parliamentary Assembly plenary meeting in Wicklow. One of the issues that I raised, which I said was a message from British members, was that they wanted more senior members of the British Government to participate in the British-Irish Intergovernmental Conference and the British-Irish Council. The Taoiseach mentioned in some of his weekend interviews that he looks forward to more regular meetings at a bilateral level with the British Prime Minister and similarly with ministers at a bilateral level too, in view of the fact that we do not have the prevalence and frequency of meetings that existed in the past when Britain was a member of the European Union. As I said earlier, that was a message from members of both the Conservative Party and British Labour Party at the British-Irish Parliamentary Assembly over the years. We sincerely hope there will be that opportunity with the new government. Some members of the British-Irish Parliamentary Assembly have been appointed to government in Britain and I wish them well.

One issue that we have to keep on the agenda is the need to repeal the legacy legislation. In implementing the potential of the Good Friday Agreement, we have to have legacy issues dealt with. In dealing with legacy issues, the policy must be victim centred. The legacy Bill as enacted by the British Parliament and put into law is actually perpetrator centred. It gives amnesty to murderers from the British state forces and from the paramilitary organisations. We need progress in investigations into the Dublin and Monaghan bombings, the Belturbet bombing, and many other atrocities which were carried out. We have never established the truth of who carried out those heinous crimes.

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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On the same issue, the despised Tories have been driven out of power. The great fear that I and, I think, many people in England have is that, the more things change, the more things will stay exactly the same with Sir Keir Starmer. I find it grimly amusing that the leader of a supposedly left-wing party is referred to as Sir Keir Starmer. I suspect that indicates where his agenda will lie. It will not be a particularly radical one. We need to address issues like the Dublin and Monaghan bombings and the refusal of the British authorities to open the books on the information they have about almost certain British collusion in those bombings and indeed more general collusion with loyalist paramilitaries who carried out atrocities. Our ability to put that to Keir Starmer will be severely limited if we are guilty of the same cover-up. As I have done on several occasions since the 50th anniversary of the Dublin and Monaghan bombings - the worst single atrocity that took place during the period of the Troubles and that was undoubtedly carried out by agents working for the British state along with loyalist paramilitaries - I must ask the serious questions that the Irish authorities have to answer. They still not released the papers on a range of things, such as why the families of the victims were put under surveillance. The Garda apparently did not give the information it had to Operation Newham, which is looking into this. We have no credibility asking Keir Starmer about these things unless we open the files.

Photo of Mick BarryMick Barry (Cork North Central, Solidarity)
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It is goodbye to Jacob Rees-Mogg, Liz Truss and all the other Tories, and good riddance. It was a landslide but, as one commentator said, it was a loveless landslide. There seems to be little or no enthusiasm for Starmer's Government. It is true that it win 9.6 million votes compared that with the 13.8 million and 10.2 million won under Corbyn in 2017 and 2019. The vote for Reform UK is a warning. It may only have won five seats but it came second in more than 100 constituencies, garnering more than 4 million votes overall. This party of racist little Englanders will try to pose as a radical alternative to the British Government. It is not radical alternative, but it will pose as one on the right. There needs to be a genuine radical alternative on the left, particularly when disillusionment with the Starmer Government hits and turns to anger. There needs to be an alternative which campaigns to save the National Health Service, on the cost-of-living issues, which stands up for the rights of the people in Gaza and for people in Britain who are transgender. I sincerely hope that Jeremy Corbyn and some of the new pro-Palestinian MPs can take initiatives which help to bring such an alternative about. It is a bit more of a statement than a question but I will leave it at that.

Photo of Ruairi Ó MurchúRuairi Ó Murchú (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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The so-called legacy Bill of the previous British Government is callous, cruel and irredeemable in its entirety. The intention of the British Government was clear, that inquests and investigations would go unfinished and families would remain without truth or justice, which they deserve. We all understand why the British Government did this. That particular British Government was not willing to accept anything relating to its role in the dirty war in Ireland. I am certain the Taoiseach will join me in welcoming the commitment of the new British Prime Minister to its repeal. Sinn Féin has consistently advocated for the implementation of a victim-centred approach, agreed as part of the Stormont House Agreement, of which the Government is a co-guarantor.

Will the Taoiseach outline how he intends to engage with the new British Government to ensure the unwinding of the previous Government's cynical attempt to forever deny justice and to deliver the victim-centred approach that has been called for? I add my voice to that of Deputy Boyd Barrett. The fact is that while we need to see truth and justice, particularly regarding the Dublin and Monaghan bombings and the involved of the British state in that action, causing the death of so many citizens, we need to make sure that any information and files required by the families and others for the investigation are provided by the State. Some of those relate to this State's failings.

1:30 pm

Photo of Peadar TóibínPeadar Tóibín (Meath West, Aontú)
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The new Labour Party Government in Britain allows for a significant change in the relationship between Ireland and Britain on a number of fronts. The first is the issue of immigration. Figures yesterday showed an 87% increase in the number of asylum applicants in a six-month period of this year, a significant increase. If it continues for the rest of the year, it will probably be the highest figure so far in that regard. I understand we already have 2,300 asylum seekers currently without accommodation. The end of the Rwanda Bill offers an opportunity for a change in dynamic in that space. I also believe there is a necessity for France, Britain and Ireland to come to an agreement on how we manage the movement of people between the three countries because they are linked in this process. The Irish Sea border is also an issue, which we need to discuss. I raised the Irish Sea border regarding the movement of people before. It was put to a poll recently in the North of Ireland by the Belfast Telegraph. The majority of people who responded to that poll said they supported an Irish Sea border to manage the movement of people from both islands. Is there any engagement with the British in relation to those three areas?

I do not see a full commitment by the Labour Party Government in the UK to completely take the legacy Act down, which I am surprised at. The Labour Party did not oppose it in the upper house in Westminster. It may be that it will dodge this issue.

About two weeks ago, I raised with the Taoiseach the case of Noah Donohoe, a 14-year-old who died or was killed in strange circumstances four years ago. The investigation by the PSNI has not been proper; it has made an incredible amount of mistakes either by accident or on purpose. As such, the family is looking to recuse the coroner involved in the inquest. Will the Taoiseach engage with the British Government in relation to that?

Photo of Paul MurphyPaul Murphy (Dublin South West, RISE)
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I also refer to the British elections. Ordinary people across Britain are delighted to see the back of the Tories after 14 years which saw corporate profits soar while their waters were polluted by privatised corporations, the number of food banks exploded to an extraordinary level and child poverty increased. As has been said, Keir Starmer seems determined to say little will change either on the domestic or international front. I will focus on the international front because part of what made Jeremy Corbyn so offensive to the British capitalist class and traditional establishment is the fact that he was clearly pro-Palestine, against western imperialism, as against all imperialism, and stood on the side of the oppressed. Keir Starmer is determined to say there is a changed UK Labour Party which is pro-NATO and pro-Israel. Infamously, in October, he said that Israel had the right to withhold power and water from Gaza. He is, I think, currently at the NATO conference in Washington DC and is very much aligned with the US agenda. Are there any Irish representatives at this NATO summit in Washington DC or at meetings in the environs of the summit?

Photo of Simon HarrisSimon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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Not that I am aware but I will double check for Deputy Murphy.

I thank Deputy Brendan Smith for the point he made today and has made on a number of occasions about the importance of the opportunity for Ireland and Britain to engage at a senior level. In my initial conversation with the Prime Minister, we spoke about the importance of getting the structure for engagement right, for the very reasons the Deputy said. It used to happen almost automatically that whoever the Taoiseach was would meet the British Prime Minister by virtue of our membership of the European Union. You would meet at European Council meetings and other events surrounding membership of the European Union. That stopped and now we need to find another mechanism or, as the Deputy suggested, determine how the mechanisms already in place North-South and east-west under the Good Friday Agreement can be harnessed. That may be the British-Irish Council with senior attendance or, as the Deputy said, senior individuals in the British Government attending the British-Irish Parliamentary Assembly. It is not for me to be prescriptive but if the Prime Minister and I can come to an understanding as to what that structured engagement looks like, much good will flow from that. We are all in politics; we all know that challenge emerges from a lack of dialogue and that issues can become more entrenched if there are no formats to talk person-to-person, counterpart-to-counterpart. I appreciate that the Prime Minister phoned me on his first day in office and has invited me to Downing Street next week. I take that as a good signal of his commitment to a reset in Anglo-Irish relations, which we need.

A number of people mentioned legacy. The Irish Government's position is clear; I think it is shared across this House. We do not support the legacy Act in any manner or means. We found ourselves having to launch an inter-state case. Not much unites all political parties in Northern Ireland; this has. I want to talk to the British Prime Minister about legacy and I am sure he will want to talk to us about it as well. He made commitments in his party's manifesto, which I welcome. I will not be prescriptive because I want to have that dialogue directly with the Prime Minister. There are some principles the Irish Government has. First, it has to be victim-centred. Second, the Northern Ireland Executive and parties in Northern Ireland need to have a role. It has to comply with the Good Friday Agreement and its processes. It has to be human rights-compliant as well.

On the Dublin and Monaghan bombings and the issue raised by Deputies Ó Murchú, Boyd Barrett and Smith, I was honoured on 17 May to attend a commemorative event to mark the 50th anniversary of the bombings and to meet some of the families of victims and survivors. It is important to recall that the investigation into the bombings remains an open case in this jurisdiction. The Garda has assisted the authorities in Northern Ireland in their investigations. Legislation was passed to enable cross-Border co-operation with Operation Denton. I understand the Tánaiste recently received correspondence but the fact is the Garda continues to work with the police ombudsman as it proceeds with its wide-ranging work.

I will discuss with my officials on how best to engage regarding Noah Donohoe.

On migration policy, we have to make sure the Common Travel Area is protected from abuse. That is the mechanism through which to explore the issue.