David Stanton (Cork East, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Office of the Ceann Comhairle and the Leas-Cheann Comhairle for selecting this matter and I thank the Minister of State for being here.

I have raised this matter on a few occasions already as a Topical Issue, at committee meetings and in four parliamentary questions. The matter is fairly straightforward. We are dealing with a couple of young adults who have intellectual disabilities. One set of parents in particular has been in contact. Their girl has Down's syndrome. She gorgeous, lovely and fun-loving and wants to get on. She will leave secondary school next September in Midleton, my town, and she wants to go to a training centre in Bonnington in Cork city. The centre operates out of two different locations. The challenge is that while the young woman in question is very capable, she is not capable enough to use public transport to get from her home to the relevant location. I know she has disability allowance and other payments, but they are not enough. She cannot go on her own. She has to be accompanied and looked after to get there. When she gets there, she is happy. She will get on with her day's work and training and will be very happy. A number of other families are in the same position.

I am told that there was a service prior to Covid and now the HSE is telling us there is no money. Cope Foundation is telling us that there is no money. When I raised this with the Minister of State in March, I was told: "While day service funding does not include transport, some transport supports are provided by the HSE or funded agencies on a discretionary basis, and a variety of transport solutions are pursued in different community healthcare organisation, CHO, areas." That is not the case in my area. It is kind of pot luck and ad hocas to whether one will get a service. The number of young people involved here is very small and we need a national policy. This young woman, who is not a child anymore, has an intellectual disability and needs to go a fair distance. Another issue is that the service should be closer to her home, but it is not. She would have to get on a bus and get off at the other end, where she may be vulnerable, and get a second bus. This is possibly beyond her capabilities. She may get confused, lost or worse. We need a service. I raised this matter previously on Questions on Policy and Legislation. Quite interestingly, the Minister informed me that a personal assistance, PA, service could perhaps be put in place. Somebody could travel with these young people to make sure they get from A to B safely; that is all we need. Once they get to where they are supposed to go, they will be fine.

The parents of these people love them deeply. They care and want the best for them. When the number is quite small, it would be quite possible. We are told that we have more money than we know what to do with at present. This is one small area. It would not cost a whole lot to ensure a secure service that was there prior to Covid could be put in place again on a national basis, on foot of a policy direction from the Department and the Minister. I have raised this four or five times before. I know the Minister of State has convened a transport committee. I have not seen its report yet. I believe it is somewhere and maybe the Minister of State can send it to me. It may have addressed this. I brought this up at a committee meeting a little while ago and was informed that there is considerable concern. Everybody wants to do the right thing here.

I have raised this matter other Ministers, as I was advised to do, but I am not getting anywhere with it. I am back to the Minister of State, Deputy Rabbitte, who is on top of her brief. Having been a Minister of State, I know what it is like. The Minister of State is on top of her brief and she is working very hard. If anyone can sort this problem, she can.

Anne Rabbitte (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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I thank Deputy Stanton for raising this important matter. I acknowledge that this is an area in which the Deputy has particular interest. The Deputy is no different to me in that, as someone who represents a rural constituency, he understands completely the challenges parents of this young lady and others have come to him about. The Deputy previously asked about difficulties young people may have in attending training centres and places of employment. I responded that a PA service may be of benefit. I wish to clarify that I was speaking specifically of the provision of PA support, which the Deputy has raised here, in circumstances where young people are attending further or higher education. I agree with the Deputy in that, unfortunately, geography and pot luck are sometimes the case.

The Deputy is asking for the reinstatement of this service. He is also right - this is not stated in the notes - that I reconvened the relevant committee and had officials from all Departments attend it. What was very interesting was that while we say within the HSE we do not provide transport to attend services, we spend €40 million on transport annually. The HSE spends €40 million in supporting young people to attend their day services.

In some areas the HSE works very closely with the provider, particularly where young people have left post-primary education to get them into a routine, establish a pathway for attending the service and put in place a comfort zone for the family. At a minimum, whatever the comfort zone is for that young person to attend should be put in place. Some people will thrive on it and expand on it, and once they find their way, they will not need the PA support. They do not need that extra bit that might be required. In some cases, it will not work for them at all and they will continue to need it but that can never be tested unless we try it out first. The Deputy is asking that it be reinstated so that we can provide support.

I should also note that, in general, day-service users are in receipt of the disability allowance and are automatically entitled to the free travel pass. I am aware that the Deputy has raised a specific area but in all cases it is not appropriate that the free travel pass would work. The issue of transport to day services is acknowledged by the HSE and my new Department, the Department of Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth. It is also recognised that without this support, many people with disabilities would not be able to access services. The HSE and service providers work very hard every year at a local level to source transport solutions for adult day-service users. Where it is identified that there is a need and a risk, it is essential a solution is found.

The HSE has also been working with the National Transport Authority, NTA, on this issue of transport to day services through the open routes project. Open routes is based on the idea that transport to HSE services, such as day services, would be best served by accessible local transport such as Local Link transporting people to their day service but also servicing the wider local community as well as enhanced public transport provision. This approach is being piloted in County Leitrim. While it is a step change and going in the right direction, I encourage the Department of Transport to accelerate its roll-out. It will not work for all, however. The NTA has advised that the integrated pilot project was developed in close collaboration with the HSE with a revised network that is designed to meet the needs of mainstream public transport users as well as the transport needs of passengers with disabilities and those accessing healthcare.

David Stanton (Cork East, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Minister of State for her response. I acknowledge the good work being done and the efforts being made by all the agencies across the board. However, what can I say to Orla and her parents for next September? Orla is a young woman with Down's syndrome. She needs to have support to get from A to B. Even though she would like to change buses, she is very vulnerable; she is very trusting. I am sure the Minister of State realises what I am talking about here. Her parents want the best for her. They brought her so far.

Obviously, the centre is a good deal away from her home. The Minister of State might consider having these centres more local, which would solve many problems. These young people need to travel into a city from a rural area. For a certain number of days a week, they go to one centre and on other days they go to a different centre under the auspices of the Hope Foundation which is doing great work as well. This issue comes down to a very moot point. This young woman cannot travel safely on her own unsupervised from A to B. Her parents are concerned. They are looking for a response. They are looking for support. They are looking for an answer. Both of them are working every day and they cannot afford to spend the time, although they would if they could but it would mean giving up their jobs to bring their daughter from A to B. They cannot do that. Next September, she will be leaving secondary school in her own town where she got on very well and is moving into the training centre to continue her career. The alternative is for her to stay at home which would mean she would not get out at all and would be very detrimental. The Minister of State may not have a response now. I support her in the work she is doing and in arriving at a solution.

As I said, the number of young people affected by this nationally is quite small. Not everybody wants this kind of support. However, in my area I know of at least four families who do. Perhaps the Minister of State can give this some thought. I would be happy to organise a meeting with her and maybe even arrange a deputation of parents to meet the Minister of State to bring everyone around the table, talk this through and see if it can be resolved. It would make a massive difference to the family and to Orla.

Anne Rabbitte (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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I certainly will meet a deputation and would have officials from my office there along with representatives from the HSE. There is no point in us talking unless we are going to have a meeting to find a solution. I absolutely believe the solution can be found. I say to Orla, her parents and her friends that Deputy Stanton has raised this matter and it is on my radar. I want to find a solution for them and we will find a solution. Orla needs to continue on to the next level, no different from any other child. She has the right to participate in rehabilitative training. She has the right to learn the next level of skill. She has that right to rattle around Midleton like anybody else, to be comfortable and to be known.

We will also work with the Hope Foundation. There is no better person than Seán Abbott to tell either of us what he needs to make it work. When he tells us that, I think we will find a solution. I know the geography and I accept it is a challenge to travel in that distance. We need to see what more we can do to support the Hope Foundation to expand that. Maybe there will be a lot of solutions found but the most important thing is that Orla will be able to go to day services and she and her friends will be able to go together. Between us, the Hope Foundation and the HSE, we will find a solution to give peace of mind to her parents.