Peter Burke (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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15. To ask the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform the status of the proposed legislation to increase the compulsory retirement age for public servants to 70 years of age; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [2121/18]

John Brady (Wicklow, Sinn Fein)
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40. To ask the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform the reason public service workers who wish to remain at work beyond 65 years of age will see wage cuts as per the terms and conditions set out for those wishing to remain at work; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [2349/18]

John Brady (Wicklow, Sinn Fein)
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I want to ask the Minister about the announcement he made last December whereby he decided to increase the retirement age for public service workers from 65 to 70. That must be welcomed, although it does not go far enough. The Minister is aware that I put forward legislation to ensure no worker would be subject to a mandatory retirement age. However, there is some concern on this issue. With whom did the Minister consult regarding the interim arrangements he announced in a circular dated 7 December?

Paschal Donohoe (Dublin Central, Fine Gael)
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I propose to take Questions Nos. 15 and 40 together.

The Government agreed on 5 December 2017 that the compulsory retirement age of public servants recruited before 1 April 2004 should be increased to age 70. This group of public servants currently has a compulsory retirement age of 65. Primary legislation will be required for the changes to be implemented. In approving the proposals, the Government also approved the general scheme of a Bill to give effect to the changes.

In approving the proposals, the Government also approved the general scheme of a Bill to give effect to the changes. The Attorney General’s office has been asked to give priority to the drafting of this legislation so that the new compulsory retirement age for pre-2004 public servants will become effective as soon as possible. The new compulsory retirement age will only apply to pre-2004 public servants who reach the age of 65 following the commencement of the new legislation.

In the meantime, the Government has approved some limited interim arrangements to apply in the period between the Government decision and the commencement of the necessary legislation. The interim arrangements, through retirement and rehire, will allow pre-2004 public servants who reach the age of 65 in that period to remain in employment only until they reach the age of eligibility for the State contributory pension, which is currently 66 years of age. The interim arrangements will not apply in the case of public servants who, at the age of 65, were facilitated by their employer to remain at work until age 66, as they will have already reached the age of eligibility for the State contributory pension, which is currently 66 years of age and will remain at that age until 2021.

The policy across the public service is that where a retired employee is rehired they are paid at the minimum point of the relevant scale rather than at the pay point they had reached when they retired. This practice is continuing in the context of the interim arrangements. We consulted all the unions on this matter, and its introduction has been broadly welcomed by those who work in the public service and those who represent them.

John Brady (Wicklow, Sinn Fein)
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It was a welcome step in the right direction. I brought forward legislation, which the Government is sitting on, which would ensure that there is no mandated retirement age for any worker, whether in the private or public sector. We are not yet in a position to advance that. It has gone through Second Stage and pre-committee scrutiny, and we are waiting for a money message. There are serious concerns around the interim arrangements announced by the Department on 7 December concerning public service workers. People will be forced to retire once they reach the age of 65. They will then be rehired by the Department, but on the lowest pay scale within the relevant sector. The Minister is saying that he wants to address that issue for these workers, yet they are being brought back to work on a lower pay scale and will not be in a position to continue to build up their pension.

How long is this interim arrangement going to be in place for? When will we see the legislation, and when will the heads of the Bill be published so that we know that this interim arrangement will be brought to an end and that public service workers will be able to stay, if they so wish, in the area in which they are employed at the relevant pay scales?

Paschal Donohoe (Dublin Central, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Deputy for the support he has offered to this policy. To answer his questions, if I did not have interim arrangements in place I would be accused of having announced a policy that is not going to happen. We have to legislate to make it happen. The legislation is being drafted at the moment, and my officials are working as hard as possible to get the work done. Its appearance before the House is, of course, a matter for the Business Committee, but I am aiming to bring proposals to Government on the matter as soon as I can.

On the particular matter mentioned by the Deputy, it must be recognised that the people we are referring to have already retired. Under the interim arrangement we are announcing, the people who will be affected by this are people who have retired. They are retiring because we do not have the legislation in place. They will come back to work and still receive their pension. Under the principles of abatement, they cannot be in a place where the pension and salary they receive is cumulatively higher than what they received in the past. That is why the provision is in place that they will return to work at the minimum point of the pay scale. The rationale for this was understood by those we negotiated and discussed this matter with. I hope to be in a position to bring in the legislation so that the workers concerned are not retiring in the first place.

John Brady (Wicklow, Sinn Fein)
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We need the legislation. It should be in place as soon as possible, because the interim arrangements are certainly not attractive for anybody. The Minister is saying people should have the opportunity to remain in the workforce, but there is no incentive for them to do so if they are coming back on a lower pay scale and terms and conditions different from those which they were previously employed under. We need to see the legislation, and it needs to be brought forward as quickly as possible. I have spoken to numerous public sector workers who are reaching retirement age. These interim arrangements do not make it attract for them and there is no incentive to remain on. We need legislation for this as quickly as possible.

The legislation I published seeks to ensure there will be no mandatory retirement age for any worker, whether in the public or private sector. The Minister is sitting on that legislation. We are waiting on a money message from Government to ensure it can get to Committee Stage, where it can be advanced.

Paschal Donohoe (Dublin Central, Fine Gael)
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I am not sitting on any legislation on this issue. The policy on the minimum retirement age across the entire economy is a matter for either the Minister for Business, Enterprise and Innovation, Deputy Humphreys, or the Minister for Employment Affairs and Social Protection, Deputy Regina Doherty. We are not seeking to incentivise people to make a choice. We are simply recognising the choice that employees want to make. In many cases, the rationale for why people want to continue working after reaching retirement age is not always a financial matter. As people approach retirement age, they are still able to contribute so much, whether to the classroom, the hospital or the workplace. They want to continue working. That is a win-win for the country, because these people have the expertise and experience built up that allows that work to be done well. We are now in a position where we can recruit new and younger workers to our public service. The reason people are coming back in at the minimum point on the salary scale is that these workers have already retired and we must bear in mind the principles of abatement which have been in operation in our Civil Service workplaces for quite a while. I hope to be able to deal with the matter in its entirety when I bring forward the legislation to deal with it. When it passes it will mean that the workers the Deputy referred to will not have retired in the first place.