Clare Daly (Dublin Fingal, Independent)
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6. To ask the Minister for Justice and Equality if she will meet the two serving Garda whistleblowers whose legal teams have been in contact with her requesting a meeting and access to reports commissioned in relation to their cases; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [40318/16]

Clare Daly (Dublin Fingal, Independent)
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This question relates to the undermining of the position of whistleblowers. They are the victims of bullying and harassment. These are matters that have been brought directly to the Minister's attention by a number of serving whistleblowers, at the heart of which is the Garda Commissioner. On the Minister's point to Deputy Wallace, it is normal procedure in any organisation when somebody is the subject of a major inquiry or serious allegations that they are suspended. After all, that is the position that Dave Taylor is in. The Minister has been asked to meet serving whistleblowers. What is the Minister prepared to do in that regard?

Frances Fitzgerald (Dublin Mid West, Fine Gael)
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Recent years have seen very substantial changes in the way whistleblowers and protected disclosures can be addressed. There is the Protected Disclosures Act of 2014. Members of An Garda Síochána can now make disclosures to GSOC which has full statutory powers to examine them. There is also a new protected disclosure policy in An Garda Síochána.

Recently, I referred the Garda policy on whistleblowing to the Policing Authority and asked it to examine the policy and whether it would recommend any changes. The Policing Authority told me that it would recommend changes. We will ensure that these are implemented. The Garda Commissioner has committed to implementing them.

I am aware of the cases to which the Deputy referred. All of us in the House must be very careful in discussing individual whistleblowing cases. Protection for whistleblowers rightly prioritises the confidentiality of the process, which is central to its efficiency. While the Deputy is free to make whatever comments she wishes regarding particular cases, if I started commenting on individual cases of whistleblowers or if I gave the details of particular cases, I would be open to criticism. This is all the more so when cases have been the subject of extensive legal correspondence. It would not be appropriate for me to comment on them publicly. I cannot respond to legal correspondence by way of parliamentary questions.

In an effort to be helpful to the Deputy, I will say that I would have grave reservations about meeting with persons involved in making protected disclosures while their cases are subject to an examination or investigation by the Garda Síochána Ombudsman Commission, GSOC. This in no way reflects on the persons themselves but arises because of the imperative not to be seen to be interfering in any way with such examinations or investigations. There is nothing to prevent persons setting out in correspondence to me any concerns which they may have. They have the right to make further disclosures, if they feel there is further evidence, to GSOC, which is the body with the statutory powers, where appropriate, to investigate independently any such disclosures.

Clare Daly (Dublin Fingal, Independent)
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I do not want to be here raising these matters. I would like the Tánaiste to do her job, which is to hold the Garda Commissioner to account and see that justice is done in protecting whistleblowers. The Tánaiste has told us that there is a process in place. She will be aware that the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Justice and Equality unanimously adopted a report which was published yesterday and which highlighted the shortcomings in Garda oversight, one of which relates to GSOC.

It is very convenient for the Tánaiste to say she cannot talk about a matter because GSOC is dealing with it. Nothing that GSOC is dealing with is relevant to the correspondence the Tánaiste has received, which includes very detailed information about current bullying and harassment of serving members of the Garda Síochána and the Commissioner's role in it. The Tánaiste cannot delegate the matter to GSOC. She cannot say that she will not meet people who have gone before GSOC, given that she has met other people in this situation. It is an excuse. I do not know how long the Tánaiste thinks she can run from what is happening. There are serious issues. Yesterday, the joint committee made the point that whistleblowers should be protected and that those who violate their rights should be disciplined. The Tánaiste is the person who has the ability to do this . Again, I ask her to meet the people involved.

Frances Fitzgerald (Dublin Mid West, Fine Gael)
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I received the report of the joint committee yesterday and I will examine its recommendations. The Deputy is aware that what she is asking me to do is legally very difficult but she persists in asking the question. She is the very person who would, quite rightly, argue for independent oversight of the Garda Síochána and against politicised policing, and I would agree with her. On the other hand, she wants me, as Tánaiste and Minister for Justice and Equality, to intervene in circumstances that are being examined by an independent body. Her position does not make sense.

I have informed her, again and again, that allegations which arrive on my desk are handled appropriately. The Deputy wants me to handle them inappropriately . It would be inappropriate for me to intervene in an independent process. She cannot have it both ways. While she wants me to interfere when it suits her, she would be the first to criticise me if I took inappropriate action that did not suit. I want to ensure that whistleblowers, including within the Garda Síochána, have confidence to come forward, make their complaints and disclose information. I want them to have confidence in the process that is there to support them. I have taken every action to ensure that this is the case.

Clare Daly (Dublin Fingal, Independent)
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The legislation the Tánaiste brought forward means she is the only person who can hold the Garda Commissioner to account. Her legislation means GSOC cannot do the job the Tánaiste is telling us it is empowered to do. It does not have the power to discipline senior officers. In the context of the cases to which the Tánaiste referred, which are before GSOC, she is aware that the person responsible for overseeing the disciplinary action of one senior officer is the assistant commissioner who was at the centre of an allegation of leaking information to the very officer who is under review.

The Tánaiste has previously informed the House that she has requested of the Garda Commissioner a detailed and urgent report on the manner in which the two whistleblowers - one in particular - we are discussing were being treated by the Garda Síochána. Where is the report? A number of months ago, the Tánaiste told us it was urgent. Can the House see the report? Can the whistleblower at the heart of the matter see the information? It is all very convenient to hide behind bodies the Tánaiste knows are not coming up with answers. Meanwhile, the reality for the people the Tánaiste says she wants to encourage to come forward is that they are out of work coming up to Christmas. One of them has been out for over two years. All they want is to do their jobs and be active members of the Garda Síochána.

Frances Fitzgerald (Dublin Mid West, Fine Gael)
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Inevitably, the information the Deputy is putting on the floor of the House is partial in nature. Neither the Deputy nor I have the full facts in respect of the situation she is describing. The body we have established to examine the full facts is GSOC. Meanwhile, we have stronger legislation. The Department of Justice and Equality and I, in our regular meetings with the Garda Commissioner, would have raised the issue of how whistleblowers are being dealt with within the force. The Policing Authority has examined the policy. Transparency International is working with the Garda Síochána to ensure the policies are working.

Mick Wallace (Wexford, Independent)
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The policies are not working.

Frances Fitzgerald (Dublin Mid West, Fine Gael)
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That is what the Deputies say. They have particular, partial information on certain circumstances which has been given to them and which they are putting on the floor of the House. Every item of correspondence that has landed on my desk regarding whistleblowers, whether from their legal representatives or anybody else, has been brought to the appropriate place and I have dealt with it appropriately. Like the Deputies, I want to ensure that whistleblowers are protected and suffer no consequences for their actions within the Garda Síochána.

Mick Wallace (Wexford, Independent)
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They are suffering.