Willie O'Dea (Limerick City, Fianna Fail)
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A great deal of controversy has attended the leaking of the Government memorandum on water charges. I have several questions for the Tánaiste in this regard. I do not raise them from a political perspective but because they echo the questions I am being asked by members of the public. As the local and European elections campaign intensifies, these questions are coming up at almost every doorstep. They are the same questions that are being raised by members of the Tánaiste's party - rightly, in my view. They are the same questions that were raised by the Minister of State, Deputy Jan O'Sullivan, on "Morning Ireland". I hope the Tánaiste will agree it is only right, fair and just that the public should have the fullest possible information on these matters before it is called to cast its vote on 23 May.

Will ability to pay be a central feature of the new regime? In other words, will people be entitled to exemption or part-exemption based on their income? Second, can the Tánaiste confirm the figure given by the Taoiseach of an average charge of €240, notwithstanding the indication by the Minister of State, Deputy Jan O'Sullivan, that it does not mean very much in the present context? Is that figure applicable to the first quarter or the first year? Will the overall charge be fixed for a number of years or is it subject to change after the first quarter or the first year? Third, what will be the position of those people whose homes have not been metered by the time the charge kicks in on 1 October, a situation which will apply to some three quarters of prospective water tax payers? Finally, does the Government intend to publish the detailed legislation on this matter before the local elections?

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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In our programme for Government, we indicated that charging for water would be based on usage after a free household allowance was applied and measured on a metering system, which would have the advantage of enabling people to conserve water and thereby reduce their household bill. Work has been ongoing on this scheme and, as the Taoiseach confirmed yesterday, the Central Statistics Office has calculated a figure of €240 as the average annual charge which would be required to keep water off balance sheet.

There is still a number of issues that need to be addressed. I wish they had been addressed some months ago, but they remain to be done. First, there is the question of metering. The best estimate is that the number of households that will be metered by the end of the year is some 400,000. This means that approximately three out of every four households would not be metered by the time the charge is introduced. That raises the question of how those householders will be charged. Several questions have yet to be addressed in this regard. The first is whether the pace of metering can be accelerated to increase the number of households that are metered. The second is whether some type of rebating arrangement can be introduced as households are metered after the charge is introduced. These are questions that need to be addressed and concluded.

The second issue that needs to be addressed is the question of ability to pay. The figure of €240 the Central Statistics Office has come up with is less than what was being proposed earlier in the year and certainly less than some of the very exaggerated figures that have been in the public domain in the meantime. Likewise, it certainly is less than the €400 charge Fianna Fáil would have introduced from an earlier stage. Nevertheless, it is still a very large bill for any household that is having difficulty paying it. I am thinking particularly of older people, pensioners and people on low incomes. Therefore, it will be necessary to have an ability to pay provision or measures which address the issue of ability to pay before we settle and agree on what the charge will be and how the regime will work. I want to see these decisions made quickly because I want there to be certainty and answers provided for people. It is important that we get the decision right and address the question adequately and satisfactorily of how households that will not be metered by the end of the year will be treated and, in particular, how the issue of ability to pay will be addressed for people who are in difficult financial circumstances.

Willie O'Dea (Limerick City, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Tánaiste for his clarification. As I said, these questions are being raised on every doorstep, as I am sure my constituency colleague, the Minister of State, Deputy Jan O'Sullivan, will confirm. In respect of people on social welfare, pensioners and people on low incomes, do I take it from the Tánaiste's reply that the question of their ability to pay will definitely be a feature of the new regime? Can I also deduce from the Tánaiste's reply that under the estimated system, which will apply to three quarters of households when the charge kicks in on 1 October, if what is payable is more than households would otherwise have paid, then a rebate system will apply? Finally, will the Tánaiste indicate when the Government will be in a position to publish the legislation?

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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No decisions have yet been made on any of these issues and the first discussion took place at Cabinet only yesterday. We have to find a way of dealing with the issue of households that will not be metered by the end of the year. If we want a water-charging regime which encourages water conservation and enables households to reduce their bill, we will have to deal with that issue. My view is that we should see what we can do to accelerate the metering programme in order to maximise the number of households that are metered by the end of the year. As households are metered thereafter, we should have a rebate system so that if household usage is lower, the bill can be adjusted. We also have to take into account the differences between households. In many ways, there is no such thing as an average household. For example, medical need may be a factor in water usage rates. Such factors have to be worked into the equation as well.

On the issue of ability to pay, we will have to find a way of easing the burden on those households that will find paying the bill very difficult. As I said, I have in mind in particular older people, pensioners and people on low incomes. The CSO figure of €240 is less than what Fianna Fáil would have done and less than what was talked about earlier in the year, but it is still a very big bill for a household on a low income. That issue will have to be addressed before we conclude on it. It is an issue I want to see addressed as quickly as possible.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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Does the Tánaiste recall the Labour Party advertisement from the most recent general election campaign which bore the legends "Look what Fine Gael have in store for you!" and "Fine Gael - Every Little Hurts"?

Robert Troy (Longford-Westmeath, Fianna Fail)
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That is what parties do at election time.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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Prominently featured in that advertisement was a reference to water tax, at a suggested cost of €238 per annum.

Barry Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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On the button.

Robert Troy (Longford-Westmeath, Fianna Fail)
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Is that not what parties do at election time?

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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Yesterday, the Taoiseach confirmed the accuracy of that Labour Party advertisement by stating that the average water tax to be imposed on people by this Government will be €240 per annum. Does the Tánaiste agree that the imposition of water tax is half-baked and that the Government has not thought through details of key issues such as metering, standing charges, ability to pay and conservation? Does he further agree that the tax will not survive public scrutiny if left in its current form? Does the Tánaiste agree with those sentiments, which were expressed by a member of the Labour Party to The Irish Times yesterday? Is he of the view that his party is at one with Fine Gael in respect of these matters? Are members of the Labour Party at one with each other, particularly in the context of what is being said? How can the Tánaiste reconcile the statements to which I refer with the fact that despite all the warnings they issued to the electorate in 2011, those in Labour - with their eyes wide open - negotiated a programme for Government and then entered office with Fine Gael? The Labour Party actually supported the inclusion of water tax in the programme for Government and on every occasion it has supported that proposition, including on the final sitting day of 2013 when the parties in government rushed through legislation in the absence of either scrutiny or proper debate. Where does the Labour Party stand in the context of what is now proposed?

Finian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
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On its head.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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This is typical of Sinn Féin.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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I was merely talking about what is typical of Labour.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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Sinn Féin does not give a curse as to how it will impact on people, all it cares about is how it is going to play politically.

Deputies:

Hear, hear.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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Those opposite should dig their own holes for themselves.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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There is no need for the chorus.

Timmy Dooley (Clare, Fianna Fail)
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It is typical of the Tánaiste to play politics at election time.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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What we never hear from Sinn Féin is how it proposes to ensure that the people of this country will have an adequate, clean and satisfactory supply of water into the years ahead. Sinn Féin has never made a proposal in respect of this matter.

Peadar Tóibín (Meath West, Sinn Fein)
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We have done so and we posted a copy of it to the Tánaiste as well.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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Sinn Féin has never made a proposal as to how water is going to be supplied.

Peadar Tóibín (Meath West, Sinn Fein)
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I have a copy of it here.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputy Tóibín should put away that document. He cannot display it in the House.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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Those in Sinn Féin conveniently ignore the fact that the previous Government agreed-----

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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We never ignore those who were in that Government.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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-----in the memorandum of understanding it signed with the troika, that charging for water would be done on a full cost-recovery basis. The latter would, at a minimum, involve a charge of approximately €400 per annum per house, regardless of size.

Barry Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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No waivers. No rebates.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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As Deputy Ó Caoláin knows, the proposal the Government is considering involves a sizeable subsidy from the State in respect of the provision of water. Issues relating to the scale of the charge and how it will be structured are being considered by the Government. As stated earlier, we are examining this matter in the context of how metering will proceed in the fairest and most reasonable way and how we might ensure that the issue of ability to pay will be addressed. Of course, the Deputy is not interested in that because he is away living in some kind of fairy tale. The only matter about which we can be sure is that if Sinn Féin had its way, this country would not only have remained in the bailout into which it was plunged by the previous Government but it would also have entered a second such bailout. The latter would have enormous consequences for public expenditure, taxation and the delivery of services to the people.

Timmy Dooley (Clare, Fianna Fail)
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Would that be Labour's way?

Barry Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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It would be Frankfurt's way.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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There is no surer indication that one is hitting the right button than when the heat comes back at one like that. The Tánaiste's earlier response to Deputy O'Dea was marked by its calm nature. We are right on the button in our criticism. Let us eliminate-----

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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No, let us have a supplementary question.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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-----the anonymity in respect of Labour Party commentary to the media and quote what one of its Deputy's said this morning.

Anne Ferris (Wicklow, Labour)
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What is the level of the charge in Northern Ireland?

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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Does the Tánaiste agree with the statement made this morning by Labour's Deputy Kevin Humphreys to the effect that Fine Gael in government has "acted in a dishonourable manner". Does the Tánaiste agree with what Deputy Humphreys' has said?

Arthur Spring (Kerry North-West Limerick, Labour)
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We could say a great deal more about those in the Deputy's party.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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Is it not the truth that the Labour Party decided long ago to impose the water tax on every household throughout the State, irrespective of people's ability to pay?

Anne Ferris (Wicklow, Labour)
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It is the same in Northern Ireland.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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When one hears this kind of nonsense coming back, one knows that the Labour Party is under pressure and it is not just pressure in respect of the issue of water charges.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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Is it not the case that Labour has participated staunchly in the process to which I refer from the outset and that it is a co-facilitator of the introduction of what is now proposed? Is it not also the case that all of the posturing by the Tánaiste on our television screens and all of the other commentary by Labour to which I have just referred relate to the fact that the party will be obliged to face the electorate on 23 May-----

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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The only thing those in Sinn Féin think about is-----

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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-----and that it is trying, by any and every means, to limit the negative impact of having sold out in respect of the positions it held for many years and abandoning its voters?

Arthur Spring (Kerry North-West Limerick, Labour)
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Those in Sinn Féin are cowards who would not go into government.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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We are in government in Northern Ireland.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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There is one thing of which I cannot be accused, namely, making decisions to court popularity.

A Deputy:

The Tánaiste could get a job as a comedian.

Barry Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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Amnesia. The Tánaiste get where he is today with that sort of utterance.

Dara Calleary (Mayo, Fianna Fail)
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Labour's way or Frankfurt's way.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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If some Members insist on continuing to be disruptive, they will find themselves outside the door.

Timmy Dooley (Clare, Fianna Fail)
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The Ceann Comhairle is right. We need a moment of silence.

Barry Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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The Tánaiste is like Reggie Perrin.

Peadar Tóibín (Meath West, Sinn Fein)
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What is proposed is a flat tax on low and middle-income earners.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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In light of the decisions this Government has made and following what it has done in recent years in the interests of assisting the country to recover, we are certainly not in that situation. When it comes to posturing, Sinn Féin comes second to no one.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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Why does the Tánaiste not answer the question?

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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His party is presiding over a regime in Northern Ireland where the average amount people pay in property tax and water charges is €950.

Anne Ferris (Wicklow, Labour)
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Hear, hear.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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The Tánaiste is spinning again. They do not pay for water.

Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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Sorry about that, Deputy Ó Caoláin.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Will Deputy Durkan please stay quiet?

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Tánaiste is not being listened to. Would he mind concluding, particularly as we are over time?

Dessie Ellis (Dublin North West, Sinn Fein)
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The Tánaiste is making a very watery argument.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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The only thing I can say to Deputy Ó Caoláin is that what he is saying is partitionist hypocrisy.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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The Tánaiste wrote the book on that.

Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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Sorry about that, Deputy Ó Caoláin.

Joan Collins (Dublin South Central, People Before Profit Alliance)
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I am confused with regard to what the so-called row between the Tánaiste and the Taoiseach - and their respective parties - which began yesterday and which has continued this morning, is actually about. We know that the introduction of water charges was proposed by Fianna Fáil and that Labour has agreed to this new austerity tax. There is also no dispute that the Government has set a target of rasing €500 million from this tax on water in 2015 and that in order to achieve this, the average charge per household will be at least €240 next year. There is also no dispute that the standing charge which will apply will be €50 and that the free allowance will be 30,000 litres for an adult or 65,000 for a child. All of these matters have been discussed by the Economic Management Council for a period of weeks.

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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Not true.

Joan Collins (Dublin South Central, People Before Profit Alliance)
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There is broad agreement between Labour and Fine Gael with regard to the various issues to which I refer. What, therefore, is in dispute? Why have members become so indignant and angry in the Chamber in recent days?

Does not the real issue relate to the fact that Labour wants to delay the final decision and announcement relating to water charges until after the local elections next month? I put it to the Tánaiste that his party is not concerned about the effect of the new tax on families, the unemployed or those with illnesses or disabilities but rather about the impact its introduction will have on its share of the vote.

The Commission for Energy Regulation, CER, has come out in the past half an hour stating that there will be no ability-to-pay clauses in the payment. The Central Statistics Office figures released yesterday showed that disposable income has fallen by €3,000 since 2008. People now face a new tax on the household on top of the property tax. The new tax will be a major burden on the 27% of the population, or 1.2 million people, who suffer deprivation and the 13% who cannot properly heat their homes. One in three children are in this situation and 16.4% of people in work suffer deprivation, two and a half times more than in 2008.

It may be that we did not understand that defending the vulnerable meant not defending any of those who did not cause the crisis. Those people have become economic units in this country rather than citizens. Is it about defending the vulnerable in the Labour Party? The party is likely to get a hiding in the May local elections.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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The energy regulator has begun a consultative process on the issue of water charges. It will be done in two parts: first, in respect of the structure of the charge and second, in respect of the amount of the charge itself. As Deputy Collins should know from the legislation, there is provision for the Minister to give direction to the energy regulator in respect of certain matters. As I stated earlier, these matters will have to include how the situation of households which will not be metered by the time the charges come to apply will be dealt with. That must be addressed. As I noted earlier, there are several possibilities but we must make a decision in that regard. That is the substantial issue.

The position as things stand is that three out of every four households will not be metered by the time the charge comes into effect and we need to have a fair way of dealing with that. I do not believe it is acceptable to have a charging based on some kind of crude decision based on the type of house concerned. We must consider the issue of water usage in the house and the size of the family and their needs.

As I noted earlier, the second issue relates to ability to pay. A figure of €240 has been recommended by the Central Statistics Office but no decision has yet been made by the Government. Admittedly, that figure is less than what was discussed earlier and less than the Fianna Fáil figure of €400, but it is still a large figure for a family having a difficulty to pay it.

Billy Kelleher (Cork North Central, Fianna Fail)
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Our figure was zero.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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The issue of ability to pay must be addressed. All of these issues will be considered by the Government before a complete and comprehensive decision is made on the water charges regime that will apply. Then, based on that decision, various directions will be given to the energy regulator which will inform the consultative process.

Joan Collins (Dublin South Central, People Before Profit Alliance)
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How the worm has turned. In 1997 those in the Labour Party opposed and campaigned against water taxes. They applauded and took the accolades when they were abolished in 1997. Now the Tánaiste is standing in the Dáil trying to make excuses for why people are going to be imposed with more taxes like water charges.

Is it not the case that water and access to water is a basic human right? An allocation of between 2,000 and 3,000 litres of water per person would allow for two showers per week, two flushes of the toilet per day and possibly a couple of cups of water out of the kettle. It is deplorable coming from a so-called Labour Party in government. They should hang their heads in shame.

A woman e-mailed me yesterday.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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A question, please.

Joan Collins (Dublin South Central, People Before Profit Alliance)
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She said she suspected that legally we are entitled to water. She had no problem with excessive use of water and people being forced to pay for that. She makes the point that the Labour Party has become poacher turned gamekeeper and I believe she is correct in this regard. Can the Tánaiste stand over imposing another tax on all these people - the lowest 10% of people have only 3% of all the income - and leave the top 10%, which has 24% of the income, with practically no tax? The top 300 richest people in the country increased their wealth by €6 billion last year. The increased their wealth over two years in 2011 and 2012 by nearly €10 billion. The Tánaiste presided over that. They are not even asked to pay a 10% tax on that. A 10% tax on that wealth of €7 billion would amount to €700 million to invest in our water services.

Finian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
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They cannot even get a shower.

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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They can all stay here and pay then.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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The Deputy is right that water is a basic human right. That is why we must ensure that the people have an adequate clean and safe supply of water for the years ahead. We know as a result of the neglect of the water services by the previous government that we already have a serious problem in respect of our water supplies.

Billy Kelleher (Cork North Central, Fianna Fail)
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Therefore, the Tánaiste was wrong before when he opposed the charges.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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In the greater Dublin area-----

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Sorry, please.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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In the greater Dublin area, we are already at a point where there is a risk to continued supply.

Finian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
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What about the leaks in Donnycarney?

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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There are already 18,000 people on boiled water notices. We are told by the Environmental Protection Agency that 16% of supplies are at risk if remedial action is not taken. The approach that the Government has taken on this issue is to establish a state-owned water utility to ensure that our water resources are maintained in public ownership and that there is investment in water in future.

Deputy Collins referred to people who are on the lowest level of income. We do not need any dictation from Deputy Collins on the matter. As I stated earlier, that is precisely why we must address the issue of ability to pay. We must address the situation of those households and families who will find the water charge difficult to pay.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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That is why we must address the issue of ability to pay as part of the decision that we must make. Furthermore, we must address the issue of metering so that individual households will be able to reduce their Bill by conserving water. That is the sensible way of doing it.

Joan Collins (Dublin South Central, People Before Profit Alliance)
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It is not.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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It is the way that takes account of all of the-----

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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Shouting slogans at it does not resolve it. It is about making decisions that are based on the needs of people, ensuring that those who are on the lowest income are protected, that the burden on them is eased and ensuring that families will be able to reduce their bill by water conservation.

Joan Collins (Dublin South Central, People Before Profit Alliance)
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How the worm has turned.