Catherine Murphy (Kildare North, Independent)
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5. To ask the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport the total sums paid by the State to each toll operator per year for the previous seven years and in 2014 to date under the terms of a minimum traffic guarantee clause entered into in respect of the Limerick tunnel and the M3 motorway; if this arrangement is a violation of the principles of EU State aid regulations; if he will indicate the terms of the exception received from the Commission to allow this system to operate; if he has investigated the example in Portugal where in 2010 such arrangements were successfully ended; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [15382/14]

Catherine Murphy (Kildare North, Independent)
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This relates to secondary or shadow tolling and I refer particularly to the Limerick tunnel and the M3. The State pays the companies which developed those facilities an amount to compensate for fewer vehicles using them than anticipated.

Leo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
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The contracts for the privately-operated toll schemes are commercial agreements between the National Roads Authority, NRA, which has statutory responsibility in this area, and the public-private partnership concessionaires concerned.  The M3 and Limerick tunnel schemes commenced operations in 2010. The NRA has provided me with details of the traffic guarantee payments payable per year since and I will provide these in a table below. The proposed traffic guarantee provisions were the subject of a State aid notification in 2006 and the EU Commission decision on the notification was to consider the aid to be compatible with the European treaties.

As regards the position in Portugal, I understand there were specific conditions relating to the scale of the public private partnership programme and the nature of the contracts that resulted in the renegotiation of contracts.  As the Deputy will appreciate there is a contract in place between the State, in this case represented by the NRA, and the two public-private partnership companies. This contract cannot be unilaterally changed by either party and can only be done by agreement.

Additional information not given on the floor of the House

Catherine Murphy (Kildare North, Independent)
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I have a rough idea of some amounts from 2011 but I seek updated figures. The NRA withheld information about the minimum guaranteed amounts during oral hearings with the public. Several people have told me vehicle numbers were inflated and took no account of a possible downturn. Has the Minister dismissed the prospect of seeking a renegotiation on the Portuguese basis? The European Commission in that case argued that there was State aid. If the figures were wrong and the public was excluded from the processing mechanism, would there be a basis for renegotiating those contracts? Approximately €4.7 million was paid in one instance in 2012 - I will get the updated figures - and I know the Minister and his colleagues could spend that very large amount very wisely if it could be freed.

Leo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
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For the Limerick tunnel, some €5.2 million was paid in 2013, with €2.659 million being paid for the M3. The amount is increasing. The Deputy is right in that this was a bad deal. Not only did the deal not take account of the possibility of a downturn but it assumed the economy and therefore traffic would continue to grow forever. Much capital development in Ireland was done on that basis and there has been much cost for infrastructure we possibly did not need.

I considered the possibility of renegotiation but came down against it for two reasons. First, I have nothing to offer and in any negotiation there must something offered in order to get something in return. I have nothing I want to give the companies in question. I spoke to my Portuguese colleague and what has happened there is quite different. The country had a system of shadow tolls, with the Portuguese Government paying the toll for the driver. As part of the renegotiation, new tolling points were introduced but I have decided against that. I do not intend to introduce any new tolling points anywhere in the country during my term of office. It was the Portuguese solution but I do not favour it.

There is another important point. I am trying to get private sector funders to invest in public-private partnerships again. I was very keen to initiate the projects at Newlands Cross - which the Deputy knows very well - and Rathnew going and they have been started. I am keen to get the Gort to Tuam route started in the next few months. The one way to ensure this cannot happen is to try to break deals already made with similar or the same companies. That would destroy confidence in the public-private partnership process and funding will not come if funders are concerned that the Government will try to change a deal in five years. If funding is received in such a case, there will be a premium because companies will factor in the risk.

Catherine Murphy (Kildare North, Independent)
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The deal was flawed from the outset. Will the Minister review the figures on what was provided? If there is a flaw in them, the contract would not be as robust as the Minister states. A review could open opportunities in that respect. The deal was not only fundamentally flawed from an economic perspective as we need decreasing numbers of vehicles on the road if we are to deal with climate change. We are at variation with European obligations in that respect as well. The issues have changed so I ask the Minister to carry out that review.

Leo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
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I am not arguing with the Deputy's implication that this was a bad deal. In fairness to the previous Administration, most people at the time believed the economy would continue to grow and very few predicted the scale of collapse that occurred. I can review the contracts but when we did so before, they were solid and had EU approval with respect to State aid. It is very difficult to see a basis for renegotiation on a legal technicality or similar grounds.

With regard to the Limerick tunnel, there was a toll holiday last November which resulted in a 20% increase in the number of trucks going through toll plazas but the increase was 70% in Limerick. The heavy goods vehicles are going through Limerick to avoid that toll.

Ironically, one way to reduce the traffic guaranteed payments would be paying the tolls and making it toll-free for HGVs to use the Limerick tunnel. Even though the Government would then have to pay the tolls the trucks would have paid to the company the fact more trucks would be going through would reduce the traffic guarantee. This is one option we are considering.