Charlie McConalogue (Donegal North East, Fianna Fail)
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130. To ask the Minister for Education and Skills his views on recent reports that guidance counsellors are spending 59% less time on one-to-one student counselling than they did just two years ago; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [2345/14]

Charlie McConalogue (Donegal North East, Fianna Fail)
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No doubt the Minister is aware that the reason we are counting from two years ago is that in the budget, and starting the academic year 2012-2013, the Minister removed what had previously been an ex-quota allocation, which provided that at secondary level there was specific allocation for guidance counselling teachers and hours of which students could avail. This was removed and schools were left to fend for themselves and to find resources from within their existing budgets.

Ruairi Quinn (Dublin South East, Labour)
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Since September 2012, guidance provision is organised by school management from within the staffing schedule allocation. In this way principals have discretion to balance guidance needs with the pressures to provide subject choice. I acknowledge that bringing guidance within quota is challenging for schools, but the alternative was an increase in the 19:1 pupil-teacher ratio. My Department helped shelter the impact of the budgetary measure for DEIS post-primary schools by improving their pupil-teacher ratio to 18.25:1.

The survey quoted by the Deputy is focused on guidance counsellors and, in particular, on the time spent by them in a one-to-one setting giving career guidance and student counselling. It is important to note that guidance is a whole-school activity that does not just involve the guidance counsellor. Wherever possible, group work and class-based activity should be used to maximise the amount of time available for those pupils who are in most need of one-to-one support.

Charlie McConalogue (Donegal North East, Fianna Fail)
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The Minister does a fine job of making it sound as though secondary schools have a choice. He uses the word "discretion" and says they have the discretion to balance needs. The reality is that the Minister removed their choice and their ability to deliver this service. Does the Minister believe the role guidance counsellors carry out is important and has a real impact on students? It offers real assistance in terms of students' mental health, particularly for those experiencing difficulties within the school system. It also has a real impact in guiding students towards the next level and third level.

Let me bring some figures to the Minister's attention. For example, 9% of students who start first year at university do not progress to second year and 16% of students starting at institutes of technology do not progress to second year. Apart from the difficulty this creates for those students, it is also a significant cost to the State. The advice these students get from a guidance counsellor is critical.

Figures from the Irish career guidance survey indicate the time allocated for one to one sessions with students is only 41% of what it was prior to the cuts. Will the Minister revise the very short-sighted cut he introduced and examine the impact it has had, the damage it does to students and their futures and the knock-on costs at third level and reintroduce the previous allocation in order that career guidance can be restored?

Ruairi Quinn (Dublin South East, Labour)
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I recognise what the Deputy has said and I am familiar with the statistics he quoted. When I am - or my successor is - in a position to increase the number of guidance counsellors in a school, I will happily do so. I would not return to the situation where guidance counsellors were outside the quota and could only be deployed for certain purposes by the principal and leadership of a school. They must be part of the total team. If we have more guidance counsellors in the school system, they should be part of the team because offering guidance and counselling is a whole school responsibility, not demarcated around one individual. This has been the finding of successive reports. I accept as a non-professional educationist without qualifications that this is the right way to go. When resources become available, we will increase them for the very good reasons cited by the Deputy, but with regard to returning to the situation as it was, the answer is no.

Charlie McConalogue (Donegal North East, Fianna Fail)
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Education is a whole of government responsibility, but this does not detract from the fact that it is primarily the Minister's role.

Ruairi Quinn (Dublin South East, Labour)
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Yes.

Charlie McConalogue (Donegal North East, Fianna Fail)
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Although everyone in a school has a guidance and counselling duty of care to students, guidance counselling is a profession which has developed very steadily and incrementally over a number of years. Guidance counsellors are now highly trained professionals who are able to give a service which is much wider and more rounded than it was in the past when the role was more about giving career guidance. The impact of the cut, whereby after two years only 41% of the previous number of one to one sessions take place, is a drastic reduction in a very crucial service. The Minister needs to examine the issue. It is not acceptable that when students need the service and knock on the door of the guidance counsellor, he or she is not available because he or she is in a classroom, which is the case in many instances. Students cannot access the service. As we have seen from the figures at third level, it is having a very real impact in terms of students not going down the avenue best suited to them when they leave secondary school. I ask the Minister to revisited this issue in the next budget and not leave it for his successors to pick up on.

Ruairi Quinn (Dublin South East, Labour)
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I have noted what the Deputy has stated and I will bear it in mind when the next budget comes to be discussed.