Jackie Cahill (Tipperary, Fianna Fail)
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I welcome the following representatives from Women in Agriculture Stakeholders Group, WASG, all joining remotely: Ms Hannah Quinn-Mulligan, chairperson; Ms Louise Crowley, Macra na Feirme representative; Ms Caroline Farrell, Irish Farmers' Association, IFA, representative; Ms Vanessa Kiely O'Connor, Irish Creamery Milk Suppliers Association, ICMSA, representative; and Ms Mona O'Donoghue-Concannon, Irish Cattle and Sheep Farmers' Association, ICSA, representative. They are very welcome to this meeting. We received their opening statement, which has been circulated to members, and will be published on the Oireachtas website. They will be given ten minutes to make the statement before going into questions and answers.

Before beginning, I will read the note on parliamentary privilege. Witnesses are protected by absolute privilege in respect of the evidence they are to give to the committee. However, if directed by committee to cease giving evidence in relation to a particular matter and they continue to do so, they are entitled thereafter only to a qualified privilege in respect of their evidence. They are directed that only evidence connected with the subject matter of these proceedings is to be given. They are asked to respect the parliamentary practice to the effect that, where possible, they should not criticise or make charges against any person, persons or entity, by name or in such a way to make him or her or identifiable.

I now call the WASG representatives to make opening their statement. It is their first time to be before the committee and they are most welcome. I am sure this will be the first of many times they will ask to come before committee to make their views known. I call Ms Hannah Quinn-Mulligan to make the opening statement.

Ms Hannah Quinn-Mulligan:

A Chathaoirligh agus a dhaoine uaisle, ar dtús báire tá mé féin agus an grúpa fíorbhuíoch daoibh go léir ó thaobh an cuireadh a thug sibh dúinn.

We are grateful to be here. Many of the members might already know me as an agricultural journalist, but I also have the privilege to farm with my grandmother in County Limerick. Like many members of the committee, I had a farm childhood that was both blessed with warm summer days helping to bring in hay bales and cursed with the dubious honour of standing in gaps in the biting cold of winter. Farming is in my blood, as it is for many of the colleagues here with me. Growing up, all I wanted to be was a farmer, like my grandmother. Yet, the reality of the day is that I am one of fewer than 500 young women throughout Ireland of my generation who are under 35 years of age, who grew up to be farmers and who are in receipt of farm payments. An even more frightening statistic is that there are more women over the age of 80 who the Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine considers to be actively farming than there are women under the age of 40 who are considered to be actively farming. That same figure is not shared by our male counterparts in farming. This highlights the impact of a long-held tradition where farms are passed from generation to generation by way of the eldest son.

The family farm is sacred to rural Ireland. However, just as no man is an island, the reality is that hardly any farm operates without the input of both partners. For example, when my great-grandfather had to emigrate to England to work on the railroads to support his family, it was my great-grandmother who milked the cows every morning and evening and got their nine children off to school. Women have always shared the workload on Irish farms, yet the official recognition of that work has never happened. Central Statistics Office, CSO, figures show that 70,000 women are getting up every single day to help out on farms in some capacity, yet roughly just 16,000 women are in receipt of payments. Just 3.8% of all farms in Ireland are held in joint male-female names. The figures are not improving organically, and the primary aim of the Women in Agriculture Stakeholders Group, WASG, is to push the number of women farming in their own name and in partnerships to 25% by 2030 through the mechanics of the Common Agricultural Policy, CAP.

The group is made up of representatives from the IFA, the ICMSA, the ICSA, Macra na Feirme, the Irish Natura and Hill Farmers Association, INHFA, the Irish Organic Association, IOA, West Women in Farming, and South East Women in Farming. It is completely voluntary. Since coming together just over a month ago, we have made our first CAP submission and have met with senior officials in the Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine to discuss it. We also have a social media presence and a mailing list, and we have the support of women of all ages.

I know the submission has been circulated to committee members already, so I will not bore them overly with the points. In it, we have the target to reach 25% of female farmers by 2030, through partnerships and single owners. We are saying there should be a 60% targeted agriculture modernisation scheme, TAMS, grant for women over 40, because the figures we received show that less than 4% of TAMS money went to women. There should be a female-only knowledge transfer, KT scheme and a top-up scheme for KT groups that have at least three female members. We would also like a partnership tax credit to work in line with a succession tax credit similar to that, whereby a woman could enter into a formal partnership with a male farmer - it could be a daughter, daughter-in-law, or wife - over a five-year period and the farmer would receive €5,000 a year tax credit, but the farm would have to be divided 50:50 between the farmer and the woman coming onto the farm. Another point we would like to touch on is that the Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine must commit to plan and fund a national women in agriculture dialogue as set out in Food Vision 2030.

We welcome any questions committee members might have on our submission. We thank members again for having us here.

Jackie Cahill (Tipperary, Fianna Fail)
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It is a pleasure. I will take questions two at a time from members so that we can make the best use of the remaining time we have. The first two members are Deputy Fitzmaurice and Deputy Carthy.

Michael Fitzmaurice (Roscommon-Galway, Independent)
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First, I welcome the witnesses. It is great to see them. I have daughters myself, and when I need a hand, sometimes they are out quicker than the lads. Ms Quinn-Mulligan talked about the CAP going forward. Regarding the mentality, I presume, and I would have looked into a bit of this, that the reason the numbers are greater for those later in life is, say, the spouse would be dead or something and they were handing the farm over to the other person. I think that was the reason I got before on that.

What are the actions regarding CAP and otherwise? This is about a sea change in the whole farming community, to be quite frank about it. It is about respect for people who are doing much of the work. It is well known there are many women throughout this country who are basically keeping the farm going, as Ms Quinn-Mulligan has rightly pointed out. What are the obstacles the witnesses face? Do they face sexism in the whole industry, that someone would look at them and that there is this attitude there? Is it education as well early on in schools and in the agricultural colleges? I know the numbers of ladies in the agricultural colleges who are studying agriculture science has gone up a lot. I have been monitoring that. What are the steps we need to take to make sure we achieve what the witnesses talked about, the 25% by 2030? We can have goals, but we need to make sure we get a level playing field. What are the things we can do for the people who own farms so that they give a fair chance to the daughters, nieces or whoever on the farm?

Matt Carthy (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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Tá fáilte roimh uilig, our guests. This is timely and important conversation. I welcome the work the stakeholders' group has been doing with a very able chair in Ms Quinn-Mulligan. While she was often scary to us as a journalist, I have no doubt she will be a very able and available source of information to us as we deal with the challenges to ensure the official figures recognise the realities on the ground.

To me, to increase the numbers of women farmers, we first need to recognise that women are already farmers. It is just that the official figures do not acknowledge that. To me, there are four different areas in terms of how we can address those issues, on which Ms Quinn-Mulligan or the other guests could comment. First, we had better admit and face up to it that there are cultural issues that need to be addressed on farms and in communities. Essentially, we have moved to the point where women are quite able. The reality is they do everything on the farm apart from owning it. How do we address those cultural barriers? Second, we need to identify where there are legislative gaps. I wonder if our guests have any ideas in terms of where legislation is required and where this committee could perhaps start to instigate that. Third, and this was addressed in the opening statement, there needs to be budgetary consideration.

We have recognised that we cannot encourage transition or new ownership with young farmers without putting in place budgetary measures for that to happen. Ms Quinn-Mulligan mentioned TAMS, which is a good proposal. The partnership tax credit also seems like an interesting idea and I would appreciate a little bit of elaboration on that.

The CAP process will be a big part of the work we will be involved in over the next 12 months. I understand that proposals on women in agriculture were part of the recent CAP negotiations but they did not make it into the final agreement. Do the witnesses have any views as to why that was the case? Where did resistance come from? Was it within the Council of Europe, the European Parliament, the Commission, all of those or none of those? Did it simply get lost? Recognising that, what needs to be in the next CAP strategic plan? From a domestic level, what can we hold up as a barometer and as a first step to show that we are taking seriously the issues Ms Quinn-Mulligan has mentioned when it comes to the future of CAP?

Jackie Cahill (Tipperary, Fianna Fail)
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I will hand back to the witnesses and to whoever wants to take the questions from Deputies Fitzmaurice and Carthy.

Ms Hannah Quinn-Mulligan:

I am happy to take those. I thank the Deputies for their questions because they give me a chance to clarify some points. Deputy Carthy is right that unfortunately a lot of the support measures that were originally in place for women in CAP were dropped. There are still some fundamental areas in the legal text of CAP to give us a foundation with which to go forward. If you look at Article 6(1)(h), it specifically states that women have to be supported in the next CAP. Everyone on the committee knows that it comes down to the member states how that will be articulated. Part of our mandate is how we think it should be worked out or how we envision it working out. If we look at the Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine's strengths, weaknesses, opportunities and threats, SWOT, analysis, and to come back to Deputy Fitzmaurice, it references cultural bias. That is the phrase that is used for favouring men over women when it comes to land inheritance. It states:

In Ireland, less than 12% of landholders are women presumably as a result of traditional cultural bias towards male successors, resulting in women rarely inheriting land. This has had a significant negative impact on the participation of women in agriculture at all levels and has reinforced a perception that farming is a male occupation.

It also states:

This poses a further challenge as women are often cited as more likely to drive the change necessary to ensure the future viability of some farm enterprises.

Many of us will agree that there are huge challenges facing agriculture. Not to incentivise or encourage one half of the farm family to be involved in farms does not make any sense.

Deputy Fitzmaurice touched on the numbers in agricultural science courses. If you look at Teagasc it is worrying because only about 10% of participants in its courses are women. If you look at UCD, there is a higher proportion and it is a 50:50 split. If you listen to Dr. Monica O'Gorman, who was on "CountryWide" a couple of weeks ago, she will tell you that the majority of the men are going into primary agriculture roles such as dairy when it comes to specifying it later on in the course but that women are more often going into innovation roles because they know they will not inherit the land. That is scary to me because it goes back to agriculture facing all of these challenges. We cannot spark some kind of brain drain in agriculture. We need young men and women coming back to farms to face all of those challenges. Education is something we need to look at.

We got a freedom of information, FOI, request back from the Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine on the last knowledge transfer, KT, scheme. Overall, out of around 20,000 participants, just 3,000 were women. If you break that down to individual counties, in Wicklow, for example, only two women took part in that scheme. In Longford, only three women took part in it. These are low numbers. The idea behind female-only KT schemes is not to create any form of segregation because the mixed schemes will still be there for anyone who wants to take part in them. They will be there to create the environment where you can ask questions, including technical questions, about your farm without being made to feel stupid. There are fantastic men out there and I have received so much support from men, but if you are in a minority in any situation, whether you are a woman or a man walking into a room, to put up your hand and ask a question can be very difficult. For example, I was one of three women with about 100 men doing my green certificate in Pallaskenry. As supportive as the management and teachers were, I hated asking questions or putting my hand up because the lads would be either trying to take Snapchat videos or they would be staring you out of it. That is the idea behind the female-only KT schemes. We are not necessarily saying that any extra funding is needed for those but we are saying it would be incorporated into the KT programme itself. I might bring in Ms Kiely O'Connor or Ms Crowley on this at some point because they are part of a female-only discussion group that started organically and they find it very supportive.

I want to touch on Deputy Carthy's questions as well. He talked about the cultural issues and I would say that, traditionally, people have thought of the physical barriers before women. My tractor does not know if a man or woman is turning the key in the ignition. I am a beef farmer but I have been known to milk cows in my lifetime as well. When you come down to it, the buttons on a milking machine and a washing machine are not different. Anyone who says differently has not turned on a washing machine in a while. The physical barriers that were in place are not there anymore so that cannot be used as an excuse.

A big part of the partnership tax credit we are thinking of is that it works similarly to the succession tax credit. It runs for a five-year period and it is there to encourage bringing in women over 40 years of age who are already working on farms in a formal capacity. This will give them the recognition they deserve and need, but work is also being done by my colleague, Ms Kiely O'Connor, who is the ICMSA representative. She has looked into the likes of the McKinsey & Company report, which states that farms and businesses become more economically viable and productive when a partnership is in place. It does not just make sense as an inclusivity factor; it also makes sense as an economic factor.

Ms Kiely O'Connor might share why she finds the female-only discussion group beneficial, she might share some of her thoughts on partnerships and she might give us a rundown on her background. She is a Limerick native but she has ended up dairy farming in County Cork. I would welcome her sharing some of her thoughts on those matters.

Ms Vanessa Kiely O'Connor:

I thank members for being here. As Ms Quinn-Mulligan said, I am representative from the ICMSA and a full-time farmer in my own right. My circumstances are that I am not from a farming background. I took agricultural science as a secondary school subject and that sparked my interest in agriculture. I did a year in agricultural college and a farm apprenticeship to be trained as a farm manager. That is how I ended up in Cork. I did not have any bias because none of my family were into farming so they did not see any obstacles. If that was what I wanted to do, it was not a problem.

Ms Vanessa Kiely O'Connor:

-----over in France. That was my intention when I was doing that course because there was no option for partnership in Ireland-----

Ms Vanessa Kiely O'Connor:

-----and if I wanted to continue in farming that was what I was going to do. As it happened, I would meet my future husband walking across the road on the first farm I worked at-----

Ms Vanessa Kiely O'Connor:

-----and we are here.

I have the qualification and I have the full running of the farm. I have been well supported by my husband. He supports what I do 100% because he can see that I can do the job. My mother and father-in-law had no issues with handing the farm down to us because we were enthusiastic and we had the energy of youth to succeed at what we were doing.

I come from a very positive background. Not every woman has that. As time would move on-----

Ms Vanessa Kiely O'Connor:

-----was not able to attend my farming organisation meetings. You cannot do everything and might be unable to put yourself forward. Maybe women have not put themselves forward because they have so many other things to be doing. Looking to a solution and bearing in mind what happened with Covid and the fact we are now all able to get on social media, do we have an opportunity to use online platforms for meetings to get more women involved? For a woman with children who is interested in farming and would like to be part of agricultural policymaking, is there an opportunity in this regard? I feel very strongly about it. It took 13 years, or until my children reached second level, before I could make time to allow myself to come forward.

Ms Vanessa Kiely O'Connor:

-----because I have been proactive in agriculture, but that option is not available to every woman. Every woman has a different story to tell.

I worked on farms where a husband and wife were my master farmers. A family could be reared on a farm with both partners living on it. Given current prices and profits, one person may now have to work off the farm. That-----

Ms Vanessa Kiely O'Connor:

-----on the farm under pressure. There are so many factors and so many stages of life where women face some challenges. If a majority of policymakers are men, we will not have the desired influence because our voices will have been forgotten. While we might be appreciated by our husbands or partners, if we are to have everybody on board and move agriculture forward, we really need to get going on this.

Paul Daly (Fianna Fail)
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I thank the witnesses from WASG. On a lighter note, I warmly welcome the fact we have members of the IFA, ICMSA, ICSA and INHFA coming to us collectively with a common goal. Maybe the delegates will pass on to their male counterparts in their representative bodies the message that if they work collectively and all sing from the one hymn sheet, they can be a hell of a lot more successful. I say that somewhat in jest, but it is unique to have all the representatives present on a common mission.

I welcome the delegates. Deputy Fitzmaurice and others have mentioned the education aspect. I would like to address it also. I ask the delegates to go back a step further. How can we encourage more of our secondary school students, particularly the female ones, to consider agricultural science? These students are in their formative years. Before students fill out their CAO forms or make career decisions, could there be a campaign to influence them or at least inform them of the benefits of taking up agricultural science at third level? That might sow the seeds at a time when they are needed to encourage more females, in particular, to pursue careers in agriculture.

My partner is chairperson of Westmeath IFA. I still cannot get over the fact that, in 2018, she was the first ever female in the role. From that perspective – I am not being critical – do the representative organisations, which are male dominated, have an agenda to try to encourage more activism on the part of the female farming community?

My last question is on cultural and societal issues. How can we prevent elderly farmers from being very wary about, or dead set against, signing over their land to a daughter for fear that, when she marries, she will change her name? How do we overcome the fear of land no longer being in the family name? This is one of the main barriers preventing succession involving a daughter as opposed to a son.

Brian Leddin (Limerick City, Green Party)
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I welcome our guests and thank them for one of the better submissions this committee has received in my time as a member, or in the past 12 months. I am especially happy to see three Limerick women here today. Obviously, Limerick is leading the way when it comes to women in farming.

I have one point to make with respect to the composition of this committee. Senator Boylan, who is present, is our only female member. This is a matter we should consider as a committee. There is no gender balance on the committee. We must be mindful, as we go forward, of trying to seek a balance. We have to hold our hands up and say we do not have a balance at the minute. By not having one, I do not believe we can address the issues our guests are talking about in the way we should.

My question has been covered by previous speakers. If we are to have more women in farming, we have to look to school-leavers and younger women in particular. In that context and in the context of CAP, I am interested in hearing from Ms Crowley, who is representing Macra na Feirme. My question has been asked and, perhaps, to some extent answered in the contributions by Ms Kiely O'Connor and Ms Quinn-Mulligan. We have heard repeatedly how difficult it is to get young people into farming. It seems it must be exponentially more difficult to get young women into farming. I would like to believe, in the context of CAP, that this is being examined seriously. I would like to hear more about that.

Ms Hannah Quinn-Mulligan:

I thank both members for their questions. I will answer Senator Daly's question, and if Ms Crowley wants to answer Deputy Leddin's question, we can work it that way. On the Senator's first point, it is really heartening to see all the farming organisations coming together on this. When I reached out to people to form the group initially, the support I received from them was overwhelming. That was fantastic to see. Many of them were wondering themselves how they could go about doing what we are doing. I am not saying all were doing so but all of them gave a positive response. I am happy to say Irish Grain Growers has asked to be part of the group, and we are accepting its application at our next quarterly meeting. That would be a big deal for us. When we look at knowledge transfer scheme figures, we see that just 53 women in the entire scheme took part in the tillage section. That is not good enough and something we need to work on. I am very happy that ICOS has reached out and would also like to join the group. We are going to accept it too. Many people in the room might know that four out of the five major dairy processors do not have a single female farmer elected to their boards. In 2021, we have to ask if that is good enough in our most valuable indigenous industry, agriculture. I would say it is not.

While farm organisation support has been fantastic and the outpouring of support from women has been brilliant, the desired change will never happen without the support of men.

We have received support from men privately by email or Instagram and other social media, but it will not happen without the support of the members of the committee and it will not happen without the support of people in government. This is why it is fantastic to be invited here today to get our points across. Ultimately, this is not about making women superior, it is just about equality. It is about putting a temporary measure in place in the next Common Agricultural Policy cycle in Ireland that will help to level the playing field.

With regard to younger women, I love going to the National Ploughing Championships every year just to see how enthusiastic the young women are. I am a Hereford breeder, and I should not admit it but in the Angus competition the young women who come from non-farming backgrounds were just so enthusiastic about farming, it is really heartening to see. There are young women out there. It is devastating that fewer than 500 young women under the age of 35 received farm payments. When we put that figure on social media, a lot of them were unaware of that. This is why we got so much support from them. We have a generation of women now growing up who always considered themselves farmers. How do we translate this into actual farm ownership? I think it is a question of when you see it you can be it. If we see more women going to knowledge transfer events, if we see them becoming more involved in farming organisations, and if we see them being elected to the boards of co-ops, that is how we will do it. It is to be hoped some of the measures we are putting in place will ensure this happens.

I am not going to ignore Senator Daly's question about the name. I am aware I have a very long one myself, which I have inherited, and there are a couple of other women on here with very long names. It is a really important element. Places in Ireland are known as Ryan's farm or O'Donoghue's farm and that kind of thing. They are landmarks. It is 2021, however, and I promise that the worst thing that will happen with a double-barrelled name is that the children will just learn the alphabet that much faster. It is not a big deal anymore and it should not be considered a big deal anymore. If the name is that important, it can just be turned into a double-barrelled version or a woman can keep her maiden name in a marriage. It should not be the deal breaker at this stage. If the farmer in the family is a woman and she is the better farmer, then ideally the farm should go to her. That is it. I will pass over to Ms Crowley now for Deputy Leddin's question.

Ms Louise Crowley:

I will follow up on Ms Quinn-Mulligan's last point on the maiden name issue. There are quite a number of farmers, especially in the dairy sector, that for business reasons have gone into companies. The actual family name issue is not as big anymore. I know that, for myself, I would hope to get married at one point. Because my farm has a farm name, which is a company name, I do not believe that losing my maiden name would be an issue. It is something you can work around.

On the question of getting younger people into farming and how we tackle this, I believe there is a significant element lacking in education from the ground up. Some programmes are starting up with primary schools such as face time with a farmer and getting that farmer into the classroom to educate our young children so that they know people, including women, are out there farming and that it is an option.

Like Ms Quinn-Mulligan, I went to an agricultural college. I went on to an institute afterwards, but when I did my leaving certificate in 2013, I was in the last year to do agricultural science in that school. This was a country school in Croom in County Limerick. That year 20 students chose to do agricultural science for their leaving certificate and I was the only farmer on the course. There were 19 people from outside of the industry who took an interest and yet the school pulled the subject. Anyone since has had to avail of the subject outside of school hours if he or she wants to be educated on it. With rural schools especially, farming is around them and the schools should be providing agricultural science on the curriculum.

I went on to an agricultural college, and as with Ms Quinn-Mulligan, there were 107 lads on my course and I was the only female. It was not an issue for me but the agricultural college felt obliged to ring me before the course started to ask me if I was going to be comfortable to attend as the only female, or did I want to go to another college like University of Limerick or Cork Institute of Technology. It did not bother me. I knew what I wanted to do and I was going to go farming, but the educational element could turn other women away from it instead of opening their arms and trying to overcome any issues they might have. We really must stop viewing a woman going into an agricultural course as something special. We are more than capable of doing the jobs, and with some elements such as the rearing of the calves and the milking of the cows, a lot of people would say we are far better. Maybe it is the maternal instincts or having more patience. There is a lot we can bring to it that is better than our male counterparts. It is not there in the education system, however, and it is not giving enough of the chance to get people into it.

Martin Browne (Tipperary, Sinn Fein)
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I welcome the new group and it is brilliant to see. I totally agree with what Ms Crowley has just said. Education is vital for all of this to change. It is not just about changing attitudes in the farming sectors. Attitudes need to change right across the board.

I just want to put it out there in response to Deputy Leddin's remarks that I believe Tipperary is leading the way in that we have chairpersons in the north and south Tipperary Irish Farmers Association, respectively, Imelda Walsh and Erica O'Keeffe, who are there before us leading the way.

I have spent 40 years in and around the farming sector. I have no doubt about the figures from the CSO about the 70,000 women because I have seen for 40 years how hard they work on farms and they continue to do so. As Ms Quinn-Mulligan has said, when somebody is sitting on that seat the tractor, does not know if it is a female or a male who is turning the key.

The freedom of information figures show that just 4% of TAMS payments are made to women. The group is proposing 60% of TAMS grants for all female farmers. In what way is the group working to bring that around?

This committee has heard before about the organic sector in Ireland and that it is lagging behind in terms of progress. It was reported recently that approximately 25% of licensed organic operators and women. Will the witnesses explain to the committee what they believe are the reasons this percentage of female participation is vastly above the percentage of overall female representation in farming?

I would be interested if the witnesses could expand their views on the issue of succession, which is predominantly along the male side of the family. What are the witnesses' views on tackling the traditions, which the witnesses touched on a while back, as well as the technical aspects such as the CAP and overall policy?

Before I finish I must say I believe the group will have widespread support from the committee in achieving what it is out to achieve, and I think I can speak for all of the committee here. As Senator Daly has said, their male counterparts could take a lesson from that group whereby if everybody would work together, it would be easier to progress things along. It is easier for a committee to support people if everybody is singing from the one hymn sheet. I congratulate the group and I offer the witnesses the best of luck and continued support going forward.

Lynn Boylan (Sinn Fein)
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I welcome the speakers. As somebody from Dublin it is very interesting to be listening to this discussion on women in farming. I sympathise with Ms Crowley. I was one of two women who took the Coillte ground felling and chainsaw course. While it did not bother me, I could see why it would put other women off doing the same course with Coillte. The witnesses have answered a lot of the questions with the previous speakers, but is there a formal education programme?

It is right to get in at primary school level because students make choices as they progress to secondary school and their choice of subjects dictates the path they will take. Are there formal education programmes to go in at primary school and follow up in transition year to reinforce the point that there is a future for women in farming and they should consider farming?

Agriculture is changing and we are in a transitional phase. Does that open up new opportunities? Ms Quinn-Mulligan is right that it makes no difference who is operating machinery but is there something to the fact that there are more women involved in organic farming? Does diversification and the transition we are making on climate provide new opportunities for women to get involved in farming?

Tim Lombard (Fine Gael)
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I apologise for missing part of the presentation. I was speaking in the Seanad. It is great to have this group before the committee. This is an important day. We need to promote women in agriculture and also acknowledge the women who are in agriculture. My mother, who is 72 years of age, has worked all her life on the family farm. There is a legacy issue that needs to be addressed, in particular in respect of pensions. Women who worked at home and did not pay PRSI were not on the books and the only reason for that was poor accountancy. That is a significant legacy issue affecting many rural families and it must be addressed.

Role models such as Caroline Walsh are important. Women who are role models in agriculture need to be promoted. We need to step up to the mark and start talking about the real female leaders we have in agriculture. I attend agricultural meetings almost weekly at this stage and they are 90% male. Farming is a male-orientated and male-dominated space and it is going to be very hard to bridge the gap and get females into that space. Certain strong-minded, tough, focused do that well. My 11-year-old daughter who is very shy farms with me at home at weekends. I do not know if she would manage in that kind of a scenario. We need to start thinking about how to help get people like her involved in farming at that basic level.

The TAMS figures are crazy - off the Richter scale in many ways. We have a scheme in place for young farmers. We are discussing parity here and how we achieve it. We have an opportunity to have young farmers and female participation in agriculture treated in the same way. That would be a real driver in the industry to ensure we achieve the parity we need.

This is also a cultural issue. The current generation of farmers is predominately made up of males aged over 55 years. Changing the ethos will take an awful lot of work and thinking outside of the box. Campaigns, role models and leaders are really important. I see this with the veterinary practice we use at home. Two of its best vets are females. When they come into the yard my two little girls jump for joy because they see what can happen on the ground. These are the kinds of role models we need to see. People want to get involved when they see that kind of activity on the ground.

This is an important engagement but it cannot be our last one. We must have ongoing dialogue to go over issues in the agricultural industry that need to be addressed and ensure we have parity and female participation at a very high level. It is great to have our guests here.

Ms Caroline Farrell:

Senator Paul Daly mentioned what the different organisations were doing to increase women’s participation. I am sure he is aware of our diversity report which seeks to encourage women and young women farmers into the organisation.

Another issue - I think it was mentioned by Senator Lombard and perhaps I picked it up wrong - is that this committee is male-dominated. Apart from Senator Boylan, all members are male. Perhaps members should get women’s views, apart from their own, when they are discussing these issues. Just because you are a man does not mean you cannot listen to other women. That is really what I am trying to say. It would be great to see many more women on any or all of these committees and in all walks of life. Just because they are not visible does not mean they are not there. On most farms, the farmer, a man, is out there in front but much of the organisation, forward planning and business management is done in the boardroom, which is generally the kitchen table. Just because the women are not visible does not mean they cannot make a point or contribute to the committee’s formation of its opinions on what might be right for women.

Jackie Cahill (Tipperary, Fianna Fail)
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Does Ms Quinn-Mulligan wish to sum up?

Ms Hannah Quinn-Mulligan:

Ms Kiely O'Connor wishes to speak.

Ms Vanessa Kiely O'Connor:

On the issue of young women in agriculture, it would be easy to target young children from primary school age upwards by bringing them out to farms, reconnecting them with food and the food chain and opening their eyes to the opportunities available to them. I have done this.

Jackie Cahill (Tipperary, Fianna Fail)
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The signal is very poor and we are finding it very hard to hear Ms Kiely O'Connor.

Ms Vanessa Kiely O'Connor:

Can members hear me?

Jackie Cahill (Tipperary, Fianna Fail)
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I ask her to try again.

Ms Vanessa Kiely O'Connor:

Women aged in their 40s should not be forgotten and should be included in the knowledge transfer schemes. I care about this because they have very little opportunity to upskill. Women who returned during Covid and have now decided to stay on the farm deserve the right to upskill on the farm and to progress. We have a great opportunity in that regard.

I am sorry the sound at this end has been bad. That is the point I wanted to make.

Jackie Cahill (Tipperary, Fianna Fail)
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Ms O'Donoghue-Concannon also wishes to contribute.

Ms Mona O'Donoghue-Concannon:

I thank the committee for the opportunity to be here today. I reiterate what all the ladies are saying. I am a full-time farmer farming under my husband. Recognition is something that we greatly need. I am just hitting 40 years of age and I have never done a green certificate. I cannot be in a partnership with my husband because anyone aged over 40 cannot go into a formal partnership. I have a business degree and I worked full-time on the farm for over ten years. These are the barriers.

I urge members to listen to our views. We are very active and enthusiastic. As many of the members picked up, we are all willing to come together in our organisations. We have their backing, which is great, and we can work together to get our points of view across.

A question was asked about what the organisations are doing. I was the first female vice president of the ICSA.

The backing I received from the organisation was fantastic, as was the backing of the wider community when I was out and about. If we do not get the Government and others on board, we will be climbing a wall we cannot reach the top of.

Jackie Cahill (Tipperary, Fianna Fail)
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I call Ms Quinn-Mulligan to make a brief summary. It must be brief because we are actually out of time.

Ms Hannah Quinn-Mulligan:

That is not a problem; I will be quick. On the points raised about TAMS, the idea is to provide a 60% grant for women over the age of 40, but there would be a clause included to make sure it is not abused. There would have to be a formal partnership arrangement in place whereby over a five-year period, the farm would have to be divided 50:50. This is to encourage more male-female partnerships for women over the age of 40 and farming with their husbands, for example. There would be a clause included to make sure it is not taken advantage of.

On education, Ms Kiely O'Connor made a good point about having a ground-up approach in primary schools. Senator Lombard also made a good point about role models. If some of these policies are put in place, younger women will see older women more visibly active on farms. They are currently active but they are not visible. That is a big part of the issue for us.

I refer to agricultural meetings. Three of the women at this meeting have rearranged their milking time. They should have been milking cows at this time. This is major issue for us, which we included in our submission, and needs to be taken into account when agricultural meetings are being arranged, be they farm organisation or Department meetings. I refer to the CAP consultation plan, for example. The Department had three meetings in a row, all of which were held at the exact same time - between 7 and 9 o'clock. A number of women contacted me to say they could not join those meetings because they had a full day at work, they were running around working on the farm, and then had to put their kids to bed or do something to get them ready for school the next day. This should be borne in mind. We should start thinking outside the box on the issue of meetings. Perhaps they could be held on a weekend or in the middle of the day instead.

On behalf of the group, I thank the committee for inviting us. As Senator Lombard said, I hope this is just the first of many more meetings in the future.

Jackie Cahill (Tipperary, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the witnesses. That was an informative session and we appreciated hearing the views of the witnesses. As I said at the outset, I imagine this has been the first of many requests the WASG will receive to come before the committee to put forward its views. I ask the secretariat to assist the witnesses in leaving the meeting as there are a number of items the members and I have to deal with before we adjourn.