Mark Daly (Fianna Fail)
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In November 2010 Fine Gael published a document, Reinventing Government, which states "We want to introduce a new system of public appointments in which positions are advertised". Deputy Leo Varadkar said back then that this is part of our new political plan and at the same time he called for a moratorium on appointments to State boards and public bodies. I call for a moratorium now and ask Leo not to be a hypocrite. He too should stop-----

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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The Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport.

Mark Daly (Fianna Fail)
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I am calling on the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport not to be a hypocrite because if what is happening now was wrong at the time, it is wrong today. It is blatant, shameful, disgusting cronyism of the highest order. It is jobs for the boys and girls but not many for the girls and should stop. I remind Senators opposite of what is stated in the programme for Government, to which Fine Gael and the Party Labour signed up: vacancies for paid directorships on public boards will be advertised on the website, yet we see evidence of cronyism. Yesterday 64 voluntary and community organisations had their budgets cut and staff were let go. Three staff members were let go from the Irish Deaf Society. That is shameful. Ministers are too busy packing State boards and cutting funding to voluntary organisations; they are cutting funding for those that represent the most vulnerable. This is a stark example of those on the inside versus those on the outside. Why are budgets being cut? Ministerial office holders, like Leo-----

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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The Senator should refer to him as the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport.

Mark Daly (Fianna Fail)
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The Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport is too busy stuffing State boards. Ministers are not paying attention to their budgets. My colleague, Senator John Crown, has called for the Minister for Health, Deputy James Reilly, to stay in his current position. I would like him to come into the House before he goes anywhere else to explain the shambles in the Department of Health. We have seen the medical card disaster and the budget overrun by €158 million by May this year. We have seen appointments to State boards under the Minister's Department, with one person appointed because he was a good footballer for his county. Surely that is not a qualifying criterion for appointment to any Sate Board. The Department of Health is in a shambles and as a result 64 voluntary and community organisations have had their funding cut.

In 2010 the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport and the Taoiseach said there would be a new political plan and a democratic revolution - real reform is what they promised. In the past six months only 12 Bills have passed through both Houses, the worst performance of any Government in a generation. Deputy Enda Kenny promised openness and transparency.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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He is the Taoiseach.

Mark Daly (Fianna Fail)
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The Taoiseach promised openness and transparency.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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The Senator is over time. Does he have a question for the Deputy Leader?

Mark Daly (Fianna Fail)
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I seek a debate on openness and transparency. Last Thursday Senator Paul Coghlan promised openness and transparency on the part of the British Government in the case of the Dublin and Monaghan bombings. He might inform the House how he is getting on. Last Friday in The Guardianthere was a special report on the Ballymurphy massacre in which ten unarmed civilians were shot in the space of 36 hours by the Parachute Regiment.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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Does the Senator have a question for the Deputy Leader? He is way over time.

Mark Daly (Fianna Fail)
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Yes, I have. I am looking for a debate on openness and transparency. While we can all name Jean McConville, the mother of ten who was abducted and murdered-----

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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Does the Senator have a question for the Deputy Leader?

Mark Daly (Fianna Fail)
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Yes; it is related to the need for openness and transparency, on which I am looking for a debate.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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The Senator can raise these issues during the debate.

Mark Daly (Fianna Fail)
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I challenge the Members opposite to name the mother of eight who was shot in Ballymurphy by the Parachute Regiment. When Senator Paul Coghlan is attending the British Embassy tea party this summer, instead of asking for more cake, he might ask for the truth.

Paul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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I hope I am invited to a tea party, to whichever one the Senator is referring. I am sure he knows all about cronyism. Let it be stated the Government was the first ever to give members of the public the opportunity to apply for positions on State boards. Departments will continue on their websites to invite expressions of interest in vacancies on the boards of bodies under their aegis. This process has increased the pool of talent available and allowed the Government to target specific skills sets in filling vacancies on State Boards.

Mark Daly (Fianna Fail)
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All Fine Gael members.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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Senator Paul Coghlan to continue, without interruption

Paul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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Unlike all previous Governments, the Government has cast the net much wider in seeking talent to serve on State boards.

Mark Daly (Fianna Fail)
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From the party membership.

Paul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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I challenge the Members opposite to name anybody whom they believe is not qualified to fill a position for which he or she has been proposed or is filling on a State Board. I will leave it to the Deputy Leader who I am sure will respond more fully on the issue.

Mary White (Fianna Fail)
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We have talked about the local elections results already.

Paul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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The local elections are over. We must look ahead.

Mark Daly (Fianna Fail)
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As the Senator asked and to be helpful to him-----

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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Will the Senator, please, resume his seat?

Mark Daly (Fianna Fail)
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-----the Minister, Deputy James Reilly, said some of the people he had appointed-----

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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The Senator has made his contribution already.

Mark Daly (Fianna Fail)
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I know, but Senator Paul Coghlan was challenging us to give information. I just wanted to be helpful to Sir Coghlan.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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Will the Senator, please, resume his seat? Does Senator Paul Coghlan have a question for the Deputy Leader?

Paul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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I actually do not. I was going to raise something else, but in view of the interruption, I will deal with it tomorrow.

Fiach MacConghail (Independent)
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I acknowledge in the Seanad the passing of one of Ireland's most under-rated writers, the extraordinary Dermot Healy whom I knew. We met at funerals, wakes and festivals. There is a terrible sadness when a poet and an artist leaves us without a celebration and acknowledgment. Eileen Battersby could not have put it better in The Irish Timestoday when she wrote that Dermot Healy "began as a fully formed writer". One of the great Irish novels of the 20th century was A Goat's Songwhich will stand the test of time. Of course, his memoir, The Bend for Home, is his apotheosis. I am sorry for his loss and extend the condolences of the House to his family, his wife and the members of the artistic community who are mourning his loss. The writer, Michael Harding, wrote about him:

He told me once that prose is poetry in the sense that a bird is still a bird when it sits still. And the last image he flung at me, with the glee of a Zen master, his eyes hugging me, his wisdom falling like rose petals from a teacher's hands was this: "If you want to break a dog's heart", he whispered, "throw a stone into the sea."

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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Is the Senator looking for a debate on the issue?

Fiach MacConghail (Independent)
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I do not want to wait for another 20 years.

Sean Barrett (Independent)
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I express some concern about the wording of No. 1, a motion on the draft protection of young persons in employment regulations. We all support the motion and nobody supports it more staunchly than the Deputy Leader. However, the title of the draft regulations contains the words "Exclusion of Workers in the Fishing and Shipping Sectors". Fishing is an extremely dangerous activity, as we know from the mortality statistics, while shipping involves people being away from home. Perhaps we might have a debate on the motion, rather than merely sanction it. I raise this matter because of the Deputy Leader's strong record on the protection of young people and because it is proposed that No. 1 be taken without debate.

Sean Barrett (Independent)
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I thank the Deputy Leader. I am happy to hear it.

On a happier note, I congratulate Mr. Jean-Claude Juncker on becoming President of the European Commission with the support of the Taoiseach. There are interesting links between Ireland and Luxembourg as two small countries in the European Union. During the occupation of Luxembourg the arch duke joined the Irish Guards regiment of the British army and participated in the liberation of his home country in that uniform. Wearing shamrock on St. Patrick's Day is common to both small nations. Three of his grandsons also served in the regiment. I look forward to warm relations between Luxembourg and Ireland and hope Mr. Juncker will look after the interests of smaller countries within the European Union.

Yesterday was Mr. George Hamilton's first day as Chief Constable of the PSNI. He attended a seminar on restorative justice in west Belfast. I wish him well on his appointment and for continued warm relations between the PSNI and An Garda Síochána.

John Gilroy (Labour)
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When Senator Mark Daly reduces the deaths of people in the Northern Ireland conflict to a mere counting game, it is something of which he should be absolutely ashamed. If that his type of republicanism, not mine. It is the type of republicanism in which no decent minded person would ever indulge, but that is not the issue I wish to raise. I refer to mental health issues.

Mark Daly (Fianna Fail)
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I asked the Senators opposite for the mother's name.

John Gilroy (Labour)
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Is it the names of Francis Quinn, Hugh Mullan, Joan Connolly, Daniel Taggart, Noel Phillips, Joseph Murphy, Edward Doherty, John Laverty, Paddy-----

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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That is not relevant to the Order of Business.

John Gilroy (Labour)
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Which of them? With which names does Senator Mark Daly want to play games?

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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That is not relevant to the Order of Business.

John Gilroy (Labour)
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Senator Mark Daly reduced the deaths of people to a mere counting game. It is absolutely disgraceful and shameful.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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That is not relevant to the Order of Business.

John Gilroy (Labour)
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Sinn Féin moved from it years ago.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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Does the Senator Gilroy have a question for the Deputy Leader?

John Gilroy (Labour)
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I have plenty of questions for her. Sinn Féin moved from it years ago and reached out a hand to its former opponents and enemies. That is not something Senator Mark Daly has even moved towards. It is despicable nationalism; it is despicable republicanism, the republicanism of no decent minded person.

I have raised mental health issues time and again. Many find section 59 of the Mental Health Act 2001 troubling. This matter was raised previously by Senator David Norris. The section provides for the administration of electronic compulsive therapy, ECT, without people's consent, whether they are unwilling or unable to give it. It needs to be repealed. This Minister of State with responsibility for this area has indicated her willingness to repeal the element relating to being unwilling to give consent. The Leader agreed to have a comprehensive debate on mental health issues in September, but it is important to bring this issue to the attention of the Minister of State, as she is drafting legislation to repeal the section.

Terry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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I would like to follow up on Senator Mark Daly's interesting contribution. With regard to fairness and transparency in making appointments, I refer to a position advertised - an Irish member of the Council of Europe committee for the prevention of torture and inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment. I hope the media report on this issue. The closing date for the receipt of nominations is 3 July, at noon. The nomination process is interesting. Selection will be based on an examination of the applications received and a short list of the most suitable candidates will be placed before the Minister for consideration. The Minister may, at her discretion, consider and select additional persons not on the list. That is real transparency as far as the Government is concerned. As a member of the Council of Europe, I will maintain a watching brief on the way the position is filled. It has to be filled in a fair and equitable way. The curriculum vitae field does not have a section on the political party to which the applicant is affiliated, whether it be Fine Gael or the Labour Party. That is the usual requirement in how all appointments are made. They must have declined to include it in this application form.

It is for a four-year period and is a very prestigious position.

Tom Shehan (Fine Gael)
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If the Senator applied, he would be out of here and life would be much easier. I will second his nomination.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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Senator Leyden without interruption.

Terry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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Mr. Seán Aylward, the former Secretary General of the Department of justice, was the outgoing member. It is very important that the right candidate be selected on a fair and equitable basis and because he or she is qualified for the position, not because he or she is a card-carrying member of Fine Gael or the Labour Party. The Minister for Justice and Equality, Deputy Fitzgerald, can prove she is without blemish on her character if she goes ahead with this appointment properly and chooses the person best qualified. I have confidence that she will.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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The Senator is way over time.

Terry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy Leader of the House would be ideally qualified to act and I recommend she apply for it because she certainly will get it.

Marie Louise O'Donnell (Independent)
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If the Senator is confident, why do we need a big speech?

Terry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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The Labour Party is not getting a commissionership. The Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government, Deputy Hogan, has been given the job and is on the way to Europe.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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The Senator is way over time. He must resume his seat.

Terry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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I wish him well in his position.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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That is irrelevant to today's business.

Terry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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It is very relevant. It follows up on Senator Daly's statement and I have asked the Deputy Leader to ask the Minister to allow a fair and equitable application process.

Hildegarde Naughton (Fine Gael)
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I raise the issue of the free travel pass for senior citizens and recent speculation that it might be stopped or withdrawn for some of those of pensionable age in the next budget. The present review of the system is not due to any wish on the part of the Government to withdraw the pass but rather that the Minister wishes to review the operation of the scheme in relation to the avoidance of fraud and the provision of the service via private operators. The free travel scheme permits free travel on most CIE public transport services, the Luas and a range of services offered by more than 90 private operators throughout the country at an annual cost to the Exchequer of €75 million. More than 745,000 customers are eligible for free travel and when spousal and companion passes are taken into account, more than 1.1 million customers have free travel eligibility.

Under the programme for recovery, increases in subventions for private operators were frozen and no new operators were allowed to join the scheme. Given the state of finances at the time, this decision was warranted. What is happening now is a review of the situation as the programme comes to a close. I note the comments by the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport, Deputy Varadkar, that the removal of the benefit is not on the Government's agenda. For the avoidance of all doubt, perhaps the Deputy Leader would invite the Minister to address the House on the matter. I would be happy to put it down as an Adjournment matter if that is a more convenient method of addressing the speculation.

Marie Louise O'Donnell (Independent)
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Like my colleague, Senator Mac Conghail, I lament the passing of the poet and novelist Dermot Healy. When such people pass away, a pulse of the nation is gone somewhere into the ether. We do not cherish our poets, playwrights and artists half enough. Their contribution to the country can be greater than and above politics. I lament it even more when I see what is happening to the arts in education. Emphasis is constantly being put on computers and technical education, while not enough money and emphasis is put on artistic education, which can do as much for young people. We have lost a great heart beat, and we tend to forget that when we get caught up in politics. He was a marvellous writer and a lovely man. He was from Cavan, where I attended school for many years. I knew him well and lament him greatly. He cherished this country. He lived in Sligo, loved it and wrote about it, and it is something special. It is a tragedy that he has passed away.

A young German student was brutally murdered in this country two years ago and his trial was recently heard in the Central Criminal Court. His parents stood with great dignity and eternal sadness as they lost him. He was his mother's only son. The assailant got a sentence of nine years. While I am not one to take on the courts, there is something wrong in society when the punishment does not fit the crime.

A six year sentence was handed down to a person who was importing garlic and people are being brutally murdered-----

Mark Daly (Fianna Fail)
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Hear, hear.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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Senator O'Donnell cannot comment on individual sentencing.

Marie Louise O'Donnell (Independent)
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-----on our streets. I am asking a question. Punishments must fit the crime. They must be a deterrent to crime - they must be at a level to be a deterrent. There is one murder a week in this country. We have had 62 violent murders in the past year. I request that the Minister for Justice and Equality come into the House. A conversation must begin, through politics, about what we can do to ensure sentencing is a deterrent to crime in terms of future assailants, future violent crime and people having had to leave this country without their children because they have been knifed on the street. I am sick of it.

Tom Shehan (Fine Gael)
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It is glaringly obvious this afternoon that Members opposite from the Fianna Fáil group cannot hide their hurt, anger, disappointment and probably disillusionment-----

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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Has the Senator a question for the Leader?

Tom Shehan (Fine Gael)
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-----at the loss of their greatest vote getter, Brian Crowley. As Trapattoni used to say, "the cat is in the sack" but I wonder is it that the cat has been let out of the sack by the grouping that the former Fianna Fáil MEP, Brian Crowley, has joined?

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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That has nothing to do with the Order of Business. Has the Senator a question for the Leader?

Tom Shehan (Fine Gael)
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One cannot but observe-----

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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Has the Senator a question for the Leader?

Tom Shehan (Fine Gael)
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I do. I ask the Deputy Leader to request the Minister for Social Protection to come into the House in order that we can have a debate on homelessness. I know of the case of a young man who granted might have a few blemishes on his CV but he is a citizen of the State. He is homeless and while accommodation is provided in a hostel-type building, he will not go there because he has found it is full of drugs and drink and, hence, he cannot receive any social welfare payment because he does not have an address. I believe that in other counties people in similar circumstances are being accommodated by community welfare officers etc., but that is not the case in County Kerry. This young man has no money. He made a good point recently when he said to me, "Tom, if you had not eaten for three days, you would steal too."

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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That might be a suitable matter for an Adjournment debate.

Tom Shehan (Fine Gael)
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No, I believe this is a big debate. I request that the Minister for Social Protection come into the House to debate this matter. A debate on homelessness must commence sooner rather than later. It is a serious debate that needs to take place.

David Cullinane (Sinn Fein)
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In the past few weeks several calls have been made for a debate on health care with the Minister for Health, Deputy James Reilly. We were told by the Leader that the Minister would be in last week----

Mark Daly (Fianna Fail)
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He could be out soon enough

David Cullinane (Sinn Fein)
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-----which he was, to take a debate on Senator Feargal Quinn's Bill on private health insurance. Any issue that was raised by a Senator on any side of the House, which was outside the scope of the Bill, was ruled out of order. The debate on that Bill was not the appropriate time to have a proper debate with the Minister for Health on the wide range of issues that are affecting health care. I again call for a proper debate on health care. The issue of the medical card fiasco, which was mentioned already, is still not resolved. There are still people without their medical cards and we have not had a proper resolution of that issue. The budget overrun is just a symptom of what is wrong in the health service. We have a budget overrun but front-line services are under attack all of the time.
We had the cronyism which led to the resignation of the then junior Minister, Deputy Róisín Shortall, hospital beds and wards are closing and have been for some time. Now we have the OECD report which shows that Ireland has fewer doctors. We pay consultants more than the average rate in OECD terms yet we are continuously told by the Minister for Health that the reason we do not have enough consultants is that we do not pay them enough or that they will not come to work in this State for the salaries that are in place. The OECD report, interestingly, shows that in terms of State money consultants in this State get much more than in any state in Europe, which is what we in Sinn Féin have been saying for some time. It also states that we spend less per capitathan any other country in the OECD region on health care.

That is why we have a crisis in health care. We are just not investing and spending enough. I come from a school of thought, from which the Labour Party once came, whereby if one wants proper public services one has to raise enough taxes in a fair and progressive way to pay for them. Let us get back to that and have a debate on health care and the problems therein. I ask that the Minister be invited to come to the House for a debate in the coming weeks. I will not table an amendment to the Order of Business. I have flagged the issue a number of times. I hope the Deputy Leader will convey my request to the Leader for a debate to be arranged in the next few weeks. Whether it is the old Minister for Health or a new Minister does not matter. We need the person who has responsibility for health care to come to the House as soon as possible.

Terry Brennan (Fine Gael)
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I wish to comment on the review of the free travel pass for pensioners, as has been mentioned already by my colleague Senator Hildegarde Naughton. The Government very much values the free travel scheme. The review is being conducted with a view to modernising the scheme; it is not about taking it away. That is not the agenda of the Government. I am glad to say pensioners will be protected in the review of the free travel scheme. We are all aware that issues relating to the misuse of passes, fraud and ID must be addressed. Any suggestion that the Government will remove the free travel pass from pensioners is not a reflection of what is on the agenda, as stated by Senator Hildegarde Naughton. Pensioners who are entitled to it will not have it taken from them. I am happy to allay any fears pensioners may have on the review issue. Those who have travel passes will keep them and those who are misusing them will be found out.

Denis O'Donovan (Fianna Fail)
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I rise to pay tribute to the Minister for Justice and Equality, who got specific training in this House when she was leader of the Opposition in the last Government. The announcement today that she is taking on board the recommendation of the Joint Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality to empower GSOC to do a proper job, among other things, is a positive development. I said previously that even though the principle was good, GSOC was toothless. The Minister is a breath of fresh air in the Department of Justice and Equality. She is committed to restoring confidence in the Garda Síochána and modernising the dinosaur that is the Department as it has existed for many decades. Sometimes I am very critical of Ministers, but today is a day for paying tribute to the Minister, Deputy Frances Fitzgerald. I wish her well and congratulate her on what she has done.
This year and last year I called for debates on farming, fishing, rural decline, sustainable jobs for rural Ireland, and legal services - the legal services Bill has yet to come before the House - and others have called for a debate on health care. These debates have been promised ad nauseam. Given that the House is going into recess within the next three weeks, I demand that these debates take place beforehand if at all possible.
No. 5 on the Order Paper is the Education (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2014. However, this Bill was published only in the past three or four days. It is a Bill on which we could reflect and debate next week or the following week, rather than rushing into it today, which is a mistake. In view of the fact that so many other debates have been demanded, I ask the Deputy Leader, given that it was published on 24 June, to arrange to take the Second Stage debate before the summer recess and the other Stages in the autumn. As it is not an urgent matter, I ask the Deputy Leader to reflect on it. I am making a fair point. I am not being opportunist or antagonistic towards the Deputy Leader.

It could be dealt with in a less rushed fashion, given the fact that many debates have been promised on various issues, some of which I have outlined, but have not been arranged. Some of those promises date back more than 12 months.

Catherine Noone (Fine Gael)
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I welcome the further reduction in roaming charges today thanks to the European Commission. Ms Neelie Kroes, the Commission's vice president, has done the right thing, as it will benefit tourism and business. In our digital age, it is important that businesses continue to thrive at home and abroad. This is a step towards the realisation of a vision of an interconnected Europe and I encourage the Commission to go further and allow people to use their telephones as if they were at home by the end of the year. This is the Commission's intention.

I wish to raise the issue of water safety, given the two tragic drownings last weekend. The forecast is for good weather. While we are glad of that, water safety is something of which we must all be mindful. One in three drownings is alcohol related. Of the 140 people who died last year, one third had alcohol on board. A large percentage of those in question were under 21 years of age. I put this problem down to the ridiculously cheap drink that is available to young people. One can get a can for 89 cent in Lidl or a 250 ml bottle of beer for 41 cent in Aldi. International surveys shows that, if the price of drink is cut, people buy more. It is not necessarily targeted at them, but this benefits young people who want to purchase drink. I call on the Deputy Leader to invite the Minister of State, Deputy White, to the Chamber as soon as possible to discuss the upcoming legislation, particularly as regards minimum pricing. We are constrained somewhat, as we are waiting to see what happens with the Scottish Government's case in the EU. This is a serious issue and I would appreciate if attention was given to it.

Fidelma Healy Eames (Fine Gael)
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I support Senator O'Donnell's call for a debate on a review of sentencing so that we might have a fair approach. It causes a great deal of hurt and pain when questionable sentences are handed down.
Last Friday, I was delighted to be present for the awarding of an honorary doctorate to European Commissioner Máire Geoghegan-Quinn at NUIG in recognition of her public service, particularly in her current Commission role over research and innovation in which she is widely regarded as having done well. However, I was gobsmacked by the report in today's Irish Independentthat, on retirement and without meaning to cast slight on the Commissioner, she will be due a pension of more than €3,000 per week under current rules.

Marie Louise O'Donnell (Independent)
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What?

Fidelma Healy Eames (Fine Gael)
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It is an immoral amount of money for any individual.

Marie Louise O'Donnell (Independent)
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Some €3,000 per week.

Fidelma Healy Eames (Fine Gael)
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Under our recently released policy document, one pension should be enough for anyone. I call for a debate on pensions, particularly public service ones. What is fair and reasonable? Pensions are a time bomb, but €3,000 per week would make for many travel passes.

The same Commissioner has advised the Taoiseach to move swiftly to lobby hard for a high-value Commission portfolio. I agree. I call on the Taoiseach to be confident and to bat hard for a high-value portfolio, particularly an economic one. Ireland has earned its spot. We saved the EU's banking system. I will throw another name in the ring for the role, one not previously mentioned. He has credibility in Europe.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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The Senator is way over time.

Fidelma Healy Eames (Fine Gael)
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It is the Minister, Deputy Noonan.

Imelda Henry (Fine Gael)
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I move an amendment to the Order of Business to the effect that No. 18 on the Order Paper be taken before No. 1.

Labhrás Ó Murchú (Fianna Fail)
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A number of people have referred to the free travel pass.

I was glad to hear the positive comments made by the Government's side. We all realise that this particular document is very valuable. Its receipt is a cause for celebration because it is a testimonial to the worth of our senior citizens and an acknowledgement of the contribution they have made to the State, particularly in very difficult times. A lot of them would view the free travel pass as a birthday and anniversary card rolled into one on the occasion of its arrival in their house. I would be very sad if I thought it would in any way be diminished as a result of the review that is due to take place. We should remember that the travel pass gives senior citizens a sense of independence and mobility, which is very important when people are advancing in years. Many of these people live on their own and might wish to visit relatives, or they may have to visit a sick person a long way from home. There are so many cases, and if there are abuses - and I am not too sure what abuses are being referred to - obviously the matter must be examined. However, the basic concept of the travel pass must be protected at all costs.

I genuinely believe - I am not suggesting this is going to happen - that if we start in any way tinkering with what was a very generous scheme when it was first set up, it will make a lot of senior citizens feel very uneasy about their future. I know many people who fall into that category, and the pass makes their lives liveable. I know that is an exaggeration, but it does, in effect. I appeal to the Government to be very cautious in ensuring we do not add extra concern onto the shoulders of people who already have had a lot of disappointments and concerns. All of us in this House, from all political persuasions, want to see the right thing done in this case.

Michael Comiskey (Fine Gael)
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I second Senator Henry's proposal. I also want to raise an issue that I raised back in the spring - costs for hauliers in the Republic of Ireland, particularly hauliers who operate along the Border, because £10 must be paid every time a vehicle enters and exits the North. The same applies to all hauliers in the country, but the cost is of particular importance to hauliers who operate along the Border. I know this because I have been contacted by a number of them over the past week or ten days. The Irish Road Haulage Association was here last week to brief us on a number of issues. Hauliers must pay huge costs due to the price of insurance and diesel, so a £10 fee is an added cost. Some hauliers travel from Donegal into the North and then leave the jurisdiction via Cavan or Monaghan, because they want to go through the North in order to deliver items in other parts of the Republic. Action should be taken and something must be done to help hauliers with their business, because they employ quite a large number of people and move many goods from one part of the country to another. The £10 fee is an unfair cost for them and we must do something to help them out.

Thomas Byrne (Fianna Fail)
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I call for an urgent debate to be arranged on the independent commission on electricity transmission, headed by Mrs. Justice Catherine McGuinness as chairperson. The commission was tasked with looking at Grid West and Grid Link in terms of an underground solution. I believe an underground proposal for the west of Ireland route was made subsequent to the setting up of the commission. We have heard today that the commission has washed its hands of the North-South electricity transmission route. It has been thrown out. Unfortunately, that is what we expected, because this was done in the heat of an election, and, as we all know, that is what Pat Rabbitte tends to do during an election.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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The Minister, Deputy Rabbitte.

Thomas Byrne (Fianna Fail)
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That is what he tends to do during elections. It is the second time this has happened in north Meath. The issue of wind turbines was treated in exactly the same manner. One thing is said before an election but there is a different scenario post-election. This is a really serious issue. The people of the north east have been treated with disdain and contempt and are now effectively second-class citizens. I refer to the people in Cavan, Monaghan and parts of south Meath and west of Navan who are affected by this major imposition on their lives.

We need a full debate on why certain counties are getting overhead lines and other counties, such as those where the Taoiseach lives and counties where a by-election is due in the coming weeks, are getting underground lines. I want an answer to that question and the Seanad is a good forum for a full debate. We need equality of treatment for people in this country.

Martin Conway (Fine Gael)
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I agree with the sentiments expressed by Senator Marie-Louise O'Donnell about a debate on sentencing. Members of the Joint Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality went to Stormont as part of deliberations leading to the committee's positive recommendations on Garda oversight. We met the justice committee of the Northern Ireland Assembly for an interesting discussion. The chief justice comes before that committee on an annual basis and explains the rationale behind sentencing. Members of the Oireachtas committee asked about the separation of powers and the response indicated that if issues arose that could not be discussed, the chief justice said so. That is an excellent suggestion for the House. The Committee on the Procedure and Privileges could consider inviting the Chief Justice to make a statement to the House and have a discussion on justice issues and the rationale and thinking behind sentencing. It would be a useful exercise and is appropriate to Seanad Éireann. It could be considered for the autumn.

I agree with the call by Senator Noone for caution in respect of water safety during the fine weather. It is a splendid country at the moment, people are enjoying themselves and thousands of tourists from all over the world are enjoying the fine weather. I pass on my sympathies to the families that have lost loved ones as a result of drowning and I call on people to be careful and cautious and to treat water with the respect it deserves. I also appeal to people to bring home their rubbish from the beach and not to leave it there. We have beautiful beaches but they are being destroyed every day by people leaving rubbish there. It is not too much to expect people to bring home rubbish and not have local authority workers, who do a fantastic job, working at 6 a.m. needlessly cleaning up rubbish.

Mary White (Fianna Fail)
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It gives me great pleasure to remind Members in the Chamber that Mr. Charles Haughey, when he was Minister for Finance, introduced free travel for older people in 1967. It was a milestone in legislation. The other milestone he introduced was the Succession Act, whereby a man could no longer sell the family home over the head of his wife. Recent press reports, including in The Irish Timesyesterday, frightened older people, those over 66 and those with disabilities. My Government colleagues have raised this point and denied it but a senior Government source quoted in The Irish Timesstated it was unlikely that additional money will be made available next year. Many of the private transport providers have said they can no longer afford to do it. We hear regular discussions about a less restrictive budget in 2015. Why should the free travel scheme not benefit from this? The House should fully support the campaign of Age Action Ireland entitled "Hands off our travel passes".

Paul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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No fear.

Mary White (Fianna Fail)
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This is a neoconservative Government.

Pat O'Neill (Fine Gael)
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Typical Fianna Fáil scaremongering.

Mary White (Fianna Fail)
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Older people are discarded by society because they are no longer of use-----

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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Has the Senator a question for the Leader?

Mary White (Fianna Fail)
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We should also oppose all the restrictions proposed for Government consideration, including limiting the times when older people can travel. Of course, we are against fraud-----

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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Is the Senator looking for a debate?

Mary White (Fianna Fail)
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-----but I am looking for the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport, Deputy Varadkar, to tell us, in respect of the report yesterday, that there is no question of touching the free travel scheme introduced by Fianna Fáil and Mr. Charles Haughey.

Pat O'Neill (Fine Gael)
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The comments by Senator White amount to typical scaremongering. The free travel scheme, which is a great benefit to the people of this country, will be retained but the Government must take steps to cut out fraud and that is why people have received letters in respect of identification.

I wish to raise two matters on the Order of Business, one of which has been raised already. I raised this matter last April. I asked that swimming lessons be put on the curriculum at schools. A total of 40,000 students every year receive certificates under schemes run by Irish Water Safety - one of the best organisations in the country - which oversees voluntary water safety at different venues. This means 450,000 children are not benefiting. I ask that the schools, headmasters, principals and so on take up the primary aquatics water safety scheme, a free scheme set up by Irish Water Safety. Children can proceed from PAWS level 1 to up to level 8, which is swimming. This is very important because we have seen incidents recently. I sympathise with the families affected where we have had tragedies in the past two weeks because we have had very good weather. We need greater awareness. I heard on the radio this morning that more than 500 people were rescued last year by our lifeguards, an amazing statistic. If we did not have the people who are well trained by Irish Water Safety and other water safety bodies we would have had far more tragedies.

I call on the Deputy Leader to ask the Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine to come to the House to discuss what is at present a crisis in the beef industry. Another major problem is the grid pricing system and it is failing and robbing farmers. Farmers have a better chance of picking the lottery numbers than of knowing the price they will get for their animals when they are sent to the factory.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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Senator, are you seeking a debate on the issue?

Pat O'Neill (Fine Gael)
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I am. I want to finish this point. When the factories and farm organisations agreed on a new grid system some years ago it was supposed to benefit all in the industry such that quality would be paid for. Now the factories are using the grid system to their advantage. There are penalties in the same grade. Farmers face penalties for under age, over age and under weight cattle.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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Senator, those are issues you can raise during the debate.

Pat O'Neill (Fine Gael)
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Certain breeds are being discounted. The quality assured bonuses are being reneged on. I offer one example. This week-----

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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Is the Senator seeking a debate?

Pat O'Neill (Fine Gael)
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I am seeking a debate. Under the old grading system, if a farmer had-----

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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Senator, you are way over time.

Pat O'Neill (Fine Gael)
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The farmer was repaid exactly the same. At present, the cattle are being discounted in some factories by 70 cent on other factories.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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Senator, you are way over time.

Pat O'Neill (Fine Gael)
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An R3 grade animal is being discounted by 66 cent.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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Senator, resume your seat, please.

Pat O'Neill (Fine Gael)
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An 03 animal, especially a heifer, is being downgraded by 87 cent.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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Senator Mullen is next.

Pat O'Neill (Fine Gael)
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Sorry. I want to make one point.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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You are way over time.

Pat O'Neill (Fine Gael)
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Senator Mullen is very interested in this.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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Senator, you are way over time. We are all interested but you are way over time.

Pat O'Neill (Fine Gael)
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At present an R grade bullock is worth €230 in certain factories and an O grade heifer is worth €287.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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Senator, you are way over time. Resume your seat, please.

Pat O'Neill (Fine Gael)
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We need a debate on this immediately.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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Senator, resume your seat.

Rónán Mullen (Independent)
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Some colleagues have mentioned the free travel system, the maintenance of which is absolutely essential. There are many ways by which our treatment of older citizens in recent years has become quite shameful, including the elimination of various services and allowances and so on. It seems to me that the free travel system is probably among last remaining examples of evidence that we have some regard for our older citizens and it must remain non-negotiable.
In yesterday's edition of TheIrish Timeswe read that in Denmark high-voltage cables are placed underground in scenic areas and away from centres of population. The writer referred to his home island of Funen and how it is almost free of overhead lines. He stated:

Dig them down; it costs a hell of a lot of money but it is worth it. Pylons are not an issue in Denmark any more.

The fact that the Government has not supported this legislation to date is telling. I will be calling votes on the Order of Business in due course to ensure we can debate this legislation. If we are committed to real representation of the communities that elect us, there can be no doubt that we ought to pass that legislation or very similar legislation.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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Is the Senator proposing an amendment to the Order of Business?

Rónán Mullen (Independent)
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Not at this point.

John Crown (Independent)
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It is a given that the country found itself in a very difficult situation financially and found itself making what have been called difficult choices, clearly choices that were more difficult for some than for others, over the last few years. The two parties in the Government signed up to a programme which was largely based on trying to get the public finances into order through a process of curtailed public spending known as austerity. One of the most painful parts of that, of course, was the decline in spending on the health service to save money and, as a result, a decline in services. That there has been a decline in services is apparent in that waiting lists are longer and staffing levels are lower. I have seen figures of up to 10% for a global decrease in the number of those employed in the health service and 13% in the number of nurses employed in the health service over the last five years. While the pain and decreased numbers have occurred, what savings have occurred?

I recently saw figures, and we are depending on the very frail accountancy processes of the HSE and the Department of Health, which suggest that €14 billion was being spent in 2010 and that the projected figure for this year, when one factors in the various supplements that are made, is €13.8 billion. In return for a decline in service and a drastic reduction in the number of staff there has effectively been no saving of money. How have these resources been spent?

I have a suspicion that if one decides not to replace three nursing posts but when one is desperately stuck to replace them with two agency nurses who cost as much as three nurses, and the same applies to physiotherapists and junior doctors, one has a system where there is still a decline in the service and fewer people in post, but one spends just as much money. Is it possible to get answers to these core questions? What has been the year-by-year spend on the public health service in this country since 2008, what are the staffing numbers during that time and what number of people have been employed on an agency basis? Something does not add up. We have taken the pain in double terms. Patients and staff have taken the pain, but the savings have not been made. Something is badly wrong. This would be a good topic for debate in the House with the Minister for Health. It would be an opportunity to dissect the data, see what has been achieved and give the report card on austerity in the health service over these years.

Thomas Byrne (Fianna Fail)
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That is not true.

Mark Daly (Fianna Fail)
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We will nominate the Senator, despite her wishes.

Mark Daly (Fianna Fail)
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An excellent choice.

Mary White (Fianna Fail)
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The Minister must speak to the private companies.

Paul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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Senator White is suffering from selective amnesia.

Mary White (Fianna Fail)
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Who was the senior Government source who commented on this matter yesterday?

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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Senator Henry has proposed an amendment to the Order of Business: "That No. 18 be taken before No. 1."