Donie Cassidy (Fianna Fail)
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The Order of Business is No. 1, Social Welfare and Pensions (No. 2) Bill 2009 - Committee and Remaining Stages, with Committee Stage to be taken at the conclusion of the Order of Business and Report and Final Stages to be taken at the conclusion of Committee Stage; and No. 2, earlier signature motion, to be taken without debate at the conclusion of No. 1. The business of the House shall be interrupted between 1.15 p.m. and 2.30 p.m.

Paschal Donohoe (Fine Gael)
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The new Governor of the Central Bank declared yesterday that he might not be the banking type and that he might not play golf as well as the bankers. We did not employ him to be either of these things, rather we were looking for somebody who could provide for strong governance, straight talking and a clear analysis of where the country stands. It was, however, refreshing to hear some of what he said yesterday. He was persistent in acknowledging the failings and drawbacks of the NAMA scheme being proposed by the Government, that the banks should have taken the greater share of the risk than the taxpayer and that banks would need more money in the new year, something not provided for in the budget. Most importantly, he called for a public inquiry into the causes and effects of the banking crisis. We should act upon this because if we look at those countries which conducted an inquiry into what had gone wrong in their banking systems that had led to financial crises, they were better protected when the next collapse happened. Countries such as Finland, Sweden and Denmark coped with crises in the early 1990s, had a public discussion of what had gone wrong and put in place measures with the consent of the public and often with cross-party support. This time these countries have not suffered huge blows to their national finances, unlike Ireland. I call on the Leader to take this proposal to the Minister for Finance, keeping in mind that there will have to be an allocation of responsibility for what went wrong. The Government will feel uncomfortable about this, but a well conducted inquiry would be in the national interest and lead to the country being better protected in the future should a a similar crisis occur.

The Children's Mental Health Coalition launched its manifesto on mental health yesterday. I raise this issue because of my experience of it in my constituency. Time and again, I come across children of three to five years of age who are within years of being lost to the penal system and to lives of abuse or crime or whose lives will be cut tragically short. We have talked time and again about the Ryan report, the Murphy report and all the measures that need to be taken. I ask the Leader to organise a debate in the new year on the measures being sought by the coalition to deal with the status of juvenile mental health in the Vision for Change programme published in 2006. We can look at measures that would not cost much money to implement but which ethically amount to the right thing to do and which would make great economic sense. If we do not make these interventions now, the country, community and the economy will all suffer in the future.

Joe O'Toole (Independent)
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I draw the attention of the House to motion No. 21 on the Order Paper. Members on all sides of the House had issues with the European Union negotiating a free trade agreement with Colombia at a time when there were major human rights problems in that country. There is a motion on the Order Paper which concurs with the views of the 12 MEPs from the Republic of Ireland and which I ask the Leader to consider taking tomorrow morning. It is not an all-party motion, but I know the Green Party still supports it. Perhaps it might be taken without debate tomorrow morning with all-party support.

I have lived for the last 39 years in the part of the country where the Ward Union Hunt takes place. While I do not have much time for the people involved, I would like to make a particular point. The safest stags in Ireland are those chased by the elderly gentlemen of the Ward Union Hunt. There is not the remotest danger of a stag being caught because not one has been hunted down in the past 38 or 39 years. The Ward Union Hunt is a harmless group which adds much merriment and diversity to life. As all arguments for and against hunting are imperfect, I do not take either side. I suggest, however, that rather than pulling ourselves apart, any legislation introduced on hunting should provide for the devolution of power on the issue to the local authorities. Each local authority should decide its position on hunting because there is no way someone from south Dublin, the centre of County Meath and west Kerry will agree on the issue. They will have different views because they engage in different types of hunting. Whether hunting should take place is, therefore, a question for the local authorities. The Green Party's position has always been to consult and devolve power to the lowest possible level. I ask that such an approach be adopted in this case.

Someone should examine some of the daft decisions the Government is taking. I do not refer to major cutbacks which we will discuss later but to cuts in funding to drug support units. Given that these units deal with the drugs problem, an issue raised by Senators on both sides every second day, it is nonsensical to cut their funding.

The most ridiculous decision is to cut supply panels for schools. The panels are groups of teachers co-ordinated by the Department to make a substitute or temporary teacher available when one is required by a school at short notice for a short period. I am not aware that the State incurs any costs by providing this essential and excellent service because it is a matter of administration. Given that cutting the panels which are few in number will not yield significant savings, I do not understand the reason for the decision. I raise this issue because it would be helpful if the Minster for Education and Science were to come before the House, not to argue about money but to outline the rationale for taking this daft, irrational decision which has no basis in terms of its potential to deliver savings. He should provide the memorandum setting out the case for his decision which will remove support for schools, especially in rural areas, thereby creating a further problem for them.

Alex White (Labour)
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Senator Donohoe raised the statement by the Governor of the Central Bank, Professor Patrick Honohan, before the Joint Committee on Economic Regulatory Affairs yesterday in which he argued that an inquiry into recent developments in the banking sector was required. I strongly support the Governor's position. Professor Honohan also stated he was sure the average discount to be applied to the €77 billion loans acquired by the National Asset Management Agency would be different from the 30% estimate provided in September. We know already that the basis on which we are operating is wrong and will need to be updated. We have been informed by Government spokespersons that it will be necessary to invest further State money in capitalising the banks. We must, therefore, conclude that in analysing the budget this week and last week we were operating with sight unseen, as it were, in terms of what will be the true budgetary position in the coming months. It is vital that the Government confirm and clarify precisely what is in store in terms of further State moneys being invested in the banking system.

I concur with Senator Donohoe on the urgent need for a full-blooded inquiry into what led to the banking crisis. Most of us have suspicions, for which there is significant supporting evidence, about what occurred. The matter should be investigated carefully and meticulously in a public manner, as has been done in other countries, as Senator Donohoe noted. For example, in the early 1930s one of the reasons public discourse in the United States turned around and members of the public were prepared to countenance difficult measures was the decision to hold a public inquiry into what had occurred, with full public disclosure and scrutiny.

I ask the Leader to clarify the Minister for Health and Children's comment yesterday in respect of a commitment on the part of the Government to introduce legislation to regulate assisted human reproduction. The Supreme Court made an extremely important decision yesterday in which it again pointed to a failure on the part of the Houses of the Oireachtas to implement legislation in this area. Once again, the Supreme Court has had to plug the gaps outrageously left by us, the legislators. The Government is primarily responsible for introducing legislation in this area.

When decisions such as the Supreme Court ruling of yesterday are made, it is often argued that there are many views and significant disagreement on the issue in question. I anticipate that the Leader may make the perfectly reasonable argument that assisted human reproduction is a complicated issue. While there are many views on it, the responsibility of legislators is not to sit back and do nothing, as we have done many times when it became clear there were many views on an issue, but to face up to the fact and work out carefully and meticulously, perhaps in committee, how precisely we should legislate. Assisted human reproduction is an important and sensitive issue on which legislation should be introduced at the earliest possible time.

Dan Boyle (Green Party)
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The time of the House would be well served by discussing the views and comments of the new Governor of the Central Bank, Professor Patrick Honohan. The manner in which he spoke to an Oireachtas committee yesterday and his undoubted expertise show that his appointment was an excellent one. Having such a person running the Central Bank in the critical years ahead will be a source of comfort to many citizens. There was little new in what he had to say. Further capitalisation of the banks will occur and involve further consultation with both Houses. Members will have an opportunity to discuss how capitalisation should proceed and they should fully utilise it.

On the question of whether an inquiry should be held into developments in the banking system, I am on record as calling for such an inquiry, as did Mr. Colm McCarthy who produced a recent report on behalf of the Government. Now that the Governor of the Central Bank has called for such an inquiry, there is no reason to resist the proposal. We need to get as many facts as possible into the public domain to enable us to move forward and, I hope, deal with a new reality for the financial institutions and what they can achieve in the future.

Paul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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I strongly concur with Senator Donohoe on the comments made by the Governor of the Central Bank before the Joint Committee on Economic Regulatory Affairs yesterday when he called for a US congressional style probe into developments in the banking sector. Professor Honohan is a breath of fresh air who is much different from everybody and everything that preceded him in the Central Bank. Other countries have benefited from the type of investigation he proposed. Much could be learned from a detailed examination of what took place. We are unsure of whether the National Asset Management Agency will be a success. The agency must succeed in the national interest. Further capitalisation of the banks will also be required. I ask the Leader to outline the Government's position on Professor Honohan's proposal. We have heard from the Deputy Leader who is very much in favour of it. Senator Ross will no doubt agree that the insiders are still in charge of the banks. No one has resigned and we are relying on the people who steered the ship onto the rocks to get it off them. There is something not right about this and the sooner the investigation commences, the better. I look forward to hearing the Leader's views on the matter.

Mark Daly (Fianna Fail)
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I ask the Leader to arrange a debate on the situation in Gaza. As the first anniversary of the Israeli invasion of Gaza approaches, I commend the Minister for Foreign Affairs, Deputy Micheál Martin, on his strong stance on the issue. His request to visit Gaza was refused by the Israeli authorities, as was a similar request by the French Foreign Minister. Despite this refusal, the Minister for Foreign Affairs called on the Israelis to allow a European Union delegation to visit the area to see the humanitarian crisis which has evolved in the past 12 months as a result of the destruction of Gaza's infrastructure.

A London court has issued an arrest warrant for the Israeli Foreign Minister for war crimes. Ireland was one of only five EU countries to support a United Nations resolution calling for an investigation into war crimes in Gaza. The 554-page report investigated by the Joint Committee on Foreign Affairs could be discussed during the debate. It contained a report of a disturbing incident where three girls aged nine, five and four were shot by Israeli soldiers even though they were holding a white flag in their hands when they approached an Israeli tank. A soldier appeared from the tank and shot the three girls dead. If that is not worthy of investigation by the Israeli Government, no crime is. However, the Israelis do not want anyone to investigate why these three girls, holding a white flag when they approached a tank with two Israeli soldiers sitting on top and posing no threat were shot and killed. I commend the Irish Government on being only one of five countries in the EU to seek an investigation into war crimes in Gaza. That our EU colleagues do not deem these lives lost worthy of investigation is a disgrace. I ask the Leader to organise a debate on these crimes and others.

Shane Ross (Independent)
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I endorse the calls by Senator Donohoe for a full-blooded inquiry by the Oireachtas into the banks over the past ten to 15 years. If there is not to be an Oireachtas inquiry, why does the Seanad not hold an inquiry? We have the required procedures.

David Norris (Independent)
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Hear, hear.

Shane Ross (Independent)
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Let us not go back to the Taoiseach, who was deeply involved as Minister for Finance. Let us just do this. Can we do that?

Donie Cassidy (Fianna Fail)
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Is it in Senator Ross's book?

Shane Ross (Independent)
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Banking has been cowboy country for ten years in this nation. The bankers were the cowboys, there was legalised looting and this is worthy of an inquiry. One of the interesting points about Professor Honohan's appearance at the committee meeting yesterday, which I attended along with Senator Coghlan, is that he was very keen to put clear water between him and what happened before. In the coded words of central bankers, it was clear that he was condemning his predecessors and politicians.

Pat Moylan (Fianna Fail)
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Does Senator Ross have a telephone in his possession that he should not have?

Donie Cassidy (Fianna Fail)
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There is a tweeter in operation on the far side.

Shane Ross (Independent)
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I apologise. I cannot turn it off; it does not work as a telephone.

Pat Moylan (Fianna Fail)
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In future, I request that Senators leave telephones outside the Chamber. I have requested this on a number of occasions.

Shane Ross (Independent)
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We should call in politicians, developers, bankers, regulators and civil servants. The type of inquiry sought by Professor Honohan would not be an expensive legal witch hunt but would be undertaken on the basis of the precedent set in this House and the Dáil by the DIRT inquiry. That was the most successful inquiry by a committee ever held in the history of this House. It was cheap, quick and public. Many other inquiries are investigating possible criminal activity and are held behind closed doors for good reason. The purpose of this inquiry is to let the public know what is going on and to see these people. No one is on a vindictive witch hunt but those responsible for the economic crisis in this country have enriched themselves and walked away, leaving a deficit of €20 billion. Let us see the whites of their eyes before us and let the people see it on television and in public.

Terry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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The Oireachtas is well qualified to carry out such an inquiry. The bankers did not learn much from the DIRT inquiry because they did not change their ways much as a result. Much research on the bankers has been carried out by Senator Ross and this would be an excellent work to start from. It would be a worthwhile exercise and we have been encouraged to do so by the Central Bank.

I support Senator Daly's request regarding the serious situation in Gaza. The new high commissioner in the European Union should take a personal interest in this matter and go to Gaza and see the situation there. They cannot refuse someone in her position at this time. Some 1.5 million people live in an open prison in an area no larger than the smallest county in Ireland.

Pat Moylan (Fianna Fail)
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Is the Senator seeking a debate? I do not want Second Stage speeches.

Terry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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Bethlehem is surrounded by a massive wall in this historic period and it represents a serious situation. We should raise this matter here as many times as possible.

Does the Leader have any indication from the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform regarding the new legislation on the defence of the home? Fine Gael published a Bill and has been supportive of these proposals. It would be appropriate that the proposals would make progress through the Seanad as quickly as possible. There is no time to waste in this regard. People need security because there has been an increase in the number of burglaries.

Frances Fitzgerald (Fine Gael)
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An increase of 15%.

Terry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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I attribute some of the increase to the ease of selling gold, as advertised extensively at the moment. I have carried out some research on this. It is quite easy to send gold by post. Identification is required and I do not wish to cast aspersions on the companies involved. Most of the robberies involve valuable gold that is left in bedrooms and is not regarded by most people as being of great worth unless one collects enough of it and sends it to a company. The company seeks identification but, if one sends this by post, it is very easy to forge identification. It is easy to satisfy the requirements sought by some of these companies, which I will not name at this point. The Cathaoirleach will be delighted to hear this.

Pat Moylan (Fianna Fail)
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I would appreciate if Senator Leyden would conclude.

Terry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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There is a growth in the number of burglaries involving gold and I think it is too easy to dispose of the gold. The Consumers' Association of Ireland should examine the requirements for the sale of gold as advertised on television and radio.

Jerry Buttimer (Fine Gael)
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In endorsing the comments of previous speakers on the need for an independent inquiry into banking and the issues that brought us into the economic abyss, it is important that the Leader puts on the record the Government's intention with regard to the proposal by Professor Honohan yesterday. Unlike other jurisdictions, no one has been held accountable in this country except the ordinary citizen who was forced to bail out the banks. Even though it has become a cliché, the banks are not allowing liquidity to flow. Small and medium-sized enterprises are struggling, homes are being repossessed and ordinary taxpayers are struggling, yet we have those who Senator Ross identified as allowing us to get to this point swanning around or hiding because of their ignominy. There is a need for a debate and it should be held as a matter of urgency. Senator Ross is correct in saying that if the Government does not have the moral courage to hold an inquiry, the Seanad should hold one. Before I was elected, I remember watching the DIRT inquiry, which was a very good one.

I ask the Leader to invite the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government to this House on two issues. I agree with Senator O'Toole regarding the need for local authorities to have devolution of powers for hunting. Local authorities make regulations and rules and implement by-laws. Our elected councillors and non-elected officials in each local authority are best placed to serve and put in place laws regarding local areas.

I ask the Leader, as I have asked the Deputy Leader, to invite the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government to this Chamber. Last night on the Adjournment I sought an independent investigation into flooding in Cork. The reply of the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government to this House was disappointing and lacked integrity. It was a public relations spin exercise. I hope Senator Boyle agrees with me that we need an independent investigation. Will the Leader commit to holding an independent inquiry?

Niall Ó Brolcháin (Green Party)
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I call for a debate on community development. I heard many Senators talking about the top-down approach to the banks. We cannot take our eye off the ball in respect of social justice, community development and grassroots democracy. There is, as people will probably be aware, a major issue in respect of the merging of various agencies, CDPs and local area partnerships. It is vital that we get this process right. I ask the Government and the Taoiseach to ensure this process is operated to the best effect. Although I respect the fact that there will be cutbacks in this area, we need to be very careful about it.

I support Senator Daly's call for a debate on Gaza. When I was mayor of Galway, I was in constant contact with the mayor of Beit Lahiya, which is the third biggest city in the Gaza Strip. The man in question, Ali Abu Marasa, telephoned me regularly to tell me what was going on. At times, his house was surrounded by tanks. The people of Gaza have experienced absolutely appalling situations. It was very interesting to hear at first hand how people's daily lives were affected.

I am not sure what it is about stags and the Green Party. Stags keep coming up in relation to the Green Party.

Niall Ó Brolcháin (Green Party)
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There are many types of stag hunt. A particular type of stag hunt was spoken about by Senator O'Toole and others. The Senator seemed to miss the point. It is wonderful for all these gentlemen to be riding around the country if the stags are safe. Stags are absolutely magnificent and beautiful creatures.

Paul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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Especially the Kerry red.

Niall Ó Brolcháin (Green Party)
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Indeed. The Green Party has no issue with those mentioned by Senator O'Toole - the harmless old gentlemen who ride around the country. From what I can see, such activities do not need a stag at all. I think that may be the way forward.

Maurice Cummins (Fine Gael)
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The Senator's party seems to have something against stags.

Nicky McFadden (Fine Gael)
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I propose an amendment to the Order of Business, that the Leader respond to Senator Ross's call for a public inquiry into the banking crisis. I suggest that the Seanad is the best forum to lead such an inquiry.

Donie Cassidy (Fianna Fail)
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Does the Senator want an Oireachtas inquiry?

Nicky McFadden (Fine Gael)
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I ask the Leader to do that. Many wholesalers welcomed the decision, announced in last Wednesday's budget, to reduce the level of excise duty imposed on alcohol from midnight that night. A wholesaler in my constituency, who has been through the trauma of having their premises flooded, has said that their Christmas stock is worthless as a result of the reduction in excise duty. Their customers can now go to the supermarket to buy alcohol at a lower price. The wholesaler will lose out by between 10% and 12%. I call on the Leader to ask the Minister for Finance to put in place a compensation package for wholesalers who find themselves in the dreadful position of having worthless stock.

David Norris (Independent)
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I support Senator Daly's call for a debate on Gaza. It was interesting that an arrest warrant was issued against Tzipi Livni. The same thing previously happened in the case of President Augusto Pinochet. It is interesting that national and international courts are being employed to hold political leaders to account. I welcome that development. It is also interesting that the British Government and the British Embassy in Tel Aviv have speedily distanced themselves from the arrest warrant. They are ignoring their ethical and criminal responsibilities in this case.

I would like to raise a seasonal issue. Last night, I attended a concert at St. Ann's Church on Dawson Street. The superb music was provided by the gay and lesbian choir, Gloria. The church was packed to the rafters with happy people and families. Most of the large collection that was taken will be given to the Irish Hospice Foundation. Those who provided sign language facilities to a group of deaf people in attendance were absolutely unbelievable and fantastic. I spent a lot of time watching the balletic movements of their hands, which made the words come alive. I would like to ask for a debate on inclusiveness in this context. It seems to me that we have empty churches all over the city. Last night, the gay community packed a church with people whose spirituality has been denied for so long. Similarly, the State marginalised various groups of people, including gay people, for many years. A wonderful energy can be released when we are inclusive.

As I would not like to leave Scrooge out of the Christmas picture, I ask the Leader to arrange for the Charities Acts to be revisited. I spoke a number of years ago about the huge number of charity collections on the streets of Dublin. Yesterday, a swarm of 24 collectors from a certain national charity met a shoal of 12 collectors from another national charity. I support both of the charities morally, financially and politically. It is ridiculous that so many young people are allowed to invade the streets. When I raised the matter some time ago, I was told it would be dealt with in the Charities Bill 2007, but that did not happen. In the old days, regulations governed the number of days on which each charity could collect and the number of collectors who could congregate in each area. The enforcement of such rules would be welcome.

A Member of the other House, Deputy Neville, was interviewed on the news earlier today about the important issue of the use of unparliamentary language. He was harassed and hectored about the fact that there were very few people in the Chamber last week. This is an absolute canard. I appeal to members of the media to stop being so bloody dishonest. They know perfectly well where we are. They are in the environs of the Houses and know the reason people are not all sitting in the Chamber is because they are working. If the entire Chamber was full for the entire day, they would be the first to complain that we are sitting on our backsides, taking money from the taxpayers and doing nothing. I ask the media to wise up, tell the truth and stop peddling things they know to be lies.

Niall Ó Brolcháin (Green Party)
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Hear, hear.

Pat Moylan (Fianna Fail)
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I would like to clarify that the matter raised by Senator McFadden is not appropriate to be dealt with by means of an amendment to the Order of Business.

Nicky McFadden (Fine Gael)
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I thank the Cathaoirleach for that clarification. I will table a motion on the matter.

Paudie Coffey (Fine Gael)
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I support the calls from many Senators for an inquiry into the mismanagement of the banking sector over recent years. The inquiry should include a review of the role of the Financial Regulator in this debacle. The negligence of the Financial Regulator in allowing the banks to run amok has had huge implications. We are familiar with the effects of unregulated lending on all sectors of the economy. I referred during yesterday's debate on the Social Welfare and Pensions (No. 2) Bill to a high-profile case in Waterford. A family with a disabled child was evicted from its home over the course of a few months by a company called Stepstone Mortgages. I understand that the company, which has gone out of business, is owned by the famous Lehman Brothers, which went bankrupt in 2008. It is clear that unregulated lending is having an impact on ordinary families. If some action is not taken in this regard, there will be many more casualties.

I ask the Leader to make provision for a debate on care for the elderly. The recent budget has implications for our elderly and how they will be cared for. While many of us agree there should be a carbon tax, this will have a huge impact on the elderly in rural areas who are dependent on solid fuels. The carbon tax will have implications with regard to how they can sustain themselves and heat their homes. The cut to the carer's allowance will have implications for the services provided for the elderly and will also have an impact on State services because, where care is not provided in the home, there will be further demand on State services to provide that care.

On the provision of geriatric services in the long term, we heard of the high profile case concerning Deputy Jackie Healy-Rae and Kenmare. In Waterford, we have been waiting over ten years for a new 50-bed unit for St. Patrick's Hospital, which covers the entire south east. The population is ageing, there will be bigger demands from the elderly and we will need more care and spaces for them. It is Christmas time and I ask that we think of our elderly. I call on all Members to do all they can over the Christmas period to support our elderly. In the new year, if it cannot be accommodated before Christmas, we should have a solid debate on care and long-term services for the elderly.

Ivana Bacik (Independent)
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I note Senator Ó Brolcháin referred to the Green Party as having a strange connection with stag hunting.

Pat Moylan (Fianna Fail)
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Does the Senator have a mobile phone with her, as has been the case with other Members?

Ivana Bacik (Independent)
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I do not.

Pat Moylan (Fianna Fail)
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Someone very close to the Senator has a phone. I apologise to the Senator if it is not hers. It is certainly interfering with the microphone. I have made this request on a number of occasions. The next time this begins, I will certainly adjourn the House for a period until Members remove the phones. The Senator should continue.

Ivana Bacik (Independent)
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I support the Green Party's call for a ban on stag hunting, which is a barbaric practice. I am glad to see Green Party members standing firm on this. Senator Prendergast commented that they might wish to rename themselves "the stag party", although that is probably not worthy of following up.

Pat Moylan (Fianna Fail)
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Could we have questions to the Leader on today's Order of Business?

Ivana Bacik (Independent)
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I ask the Leader for a debate on the issue of stag hunting, which seems to raise passions. Before anyone accuses me of being involved in the urban-rural divide, I grew up in the country and remember people following the fox hunts on foot in Cork, so I know it can be part of a community. However, there are other ways of doing it, such as drag hunting and so on.

It is important to remember that the Greens, while they are supporting animal welfare on this important issue, have still been making savage cuts in terms of human welfare in the social welfare Bill we opposed but which, unfortunately, passed Second Stage yesterday. I ask the Leader for a debate on the impact these social welfare cuts will have on the most vulnerable, assuming the Bill passes.

Donie Cassidy (Fianna Fail)
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The Senator will have all day today.

Ivana Bacik (Independent)
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Assuming the Bill passes, we need a debate on the impact the cutbacks are having, including the reductions in carer's benefit and jobseeker's allowance for young people. We need to know the impact this is having on young people in practice.

I support calls for a debate on Gaza, which is an important issue on which there is cross-party consensus. Finally, I am glad to see legislation announced by the Minister, Deputy Harney, on assisted human reproduction. I ask the Leader for an early debate on this issue.

Pat Moylan (Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy's time is concluded. I call Senator Fitzgerald.

Ivana Bacik (Independent)
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Just because there are sensitive and complex issues here does not mean we should not face up to our responsibilities as legislators and legislate. We have the report from the Commission on Assisted Human Reproduction to guide us.

Frances Fitzgerald (Fine Gael)
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I support the calls by a number of Senators with regard to having an inquiry into the banking sector and what has happened to our economy and finances. I congratulate Mr. Patrick Honohan on the clarity of the statement he made to the joint committee yesterday. I want to raise one aspect of what he said, namely, that he was concerned that confidentiality was being overused and that "the regulatory staff can end up appearing passive and defensive when called to speak on specific issues in public". The public have many questions about what happened and why it happened. There is huge concern and people question whether things have really changed or are still the same. We need to have the inquiry to understand fully what happened and to convince the public in an open and transparent way, so they can see things really are changing, which is critical.

I ask the Leader to come to the House tomorrow with proposals in this regard, to outline what role he and the Government believe the Seanad can play in regard to this inquiry and to outline Government on it at this time. Patrick Honohan yesterday seemed to assume there would be an inquiry. Perhaps the Leader could clarify that.

Feargal Quinn (Independent)
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It may seem strange to support Senator McFadden's call in regard to the reduction of tax on alcohol. I was contacted yesterday by a person who explained that reducing the duty on alcohol on 9 December means that those small wholesalers referred to by Senator McFadden which bought all of their alcohol before Christmas and have not yet sold it, of which there are approximately 50 in the country, suddenly find themselves with a burden they had not anticipated and which will probably put a number of them out of business. I have no idea how to solve the problem and I do not know what could be done. I am told that in 1984 the Minister at the time had Revenue move into the wholesalers when there was a similar reduction in duty on alcohol in order to be able to determine the amount of alcohol they had in their possession at that time. It appears that 50 or 60 wholesalers which are selling alcohol to retailers will lose a substantial sum. While I do not know how the problem will be solved, it draws attention to the same situation that was referred to by Senator McFadden.

My other point relates to the time of year. Today, in London, an effort is being made, based on the biblical story, to feed 5,000 people with food that would otherwise have been wasted. I use the example to remind us, as a country, of the amount of food we waste at a time when people are going hungry. Much of this is due to the retailers themselves and the tradition of having "buy one, get one free" deals. In a number of cases, this has been changed to "buy one, get one free later". It is a very small step but it means that those customers who are tempted to buy two products when they really only need one will get a token to get the second product free at a later date. This means there will be far less waste. The amount of food being wasted at both household and retail level is such that we could solve a great many of the problems we have by just paying more attention at this time of year.

Mary White (Fianna Fail)
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I call for a debate on the issue of ageism, which I have raised before. I would like the Members of the House to go to the GPO. We have had a lot of truck about the relocation of the Abbey Theatre to the GPO in honour of the 1916 centenary. As a child and a teenager, every time we came to Dublin my father brought me to Cúchulainn's statute at the front of the GPO to read the Proclamation of 1916. Everybody should visit it and bring their children. One of the profound sentences in it is that we would cherish all of our children equally. That meant all people in society.

Today, I wish to raise the matter of the forced retirement of people at 60 and 65 years of age. Ageism is endemic in our society. The Equality Authority gets more complaints about ageism than any other issue. In the United States, research has proven that at the age of 65, men will live another 17 years and women will live another 20 years, on average. The Irish Examiner in a piece today said it is daft to exclude older people from the workforce when they have judgment, experience and networking skills.

I call on the Government to have vision with regard to including older people at a time of recession. Many people in the public sector have taken early retirement, which is their choice. I am talking about the choice of men and women in this country to retire if they so wish. In the United States, one can take early retirement and early pension at 62, or full pension at 65, but one can stay on and work after 65 if one so wishes. Why the heck can we not wake up in this country and include that cohort of older people who have plenty of skills?

Donie Cassidy (Fianna Fail)
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When announcing the Order of Business, I should have included No. 33, motion 20 re the budget forecast, to be taken at 5 p.m. and to conclude not later than 7 p.m. No. 1, the Social Welfare and Pensions (No. 2) Bill 2009, shall resume at the conclusion of No. 33 motion 20, if not previously concluded.

Senators Donohoe, O'Toole, Alex White, Boyle, Ross, Buttimer, McFadden, Coffey and Fitzgerald all called for an inquiry into banking systems in Ireland and the putting in place of safeguards for the future so the experiences of the past will not be realised again. This is a worthwhile call and I wish to be associated with our congratulations to the new governor of the Central Bank, Mr. Patrick Honohan, who certainly made his mark at the committee meeting yesterday.

As someone, along with Senators Ross and O'Toole, who was a Member of the Oireachtas during the DIRT inquiry, the Oireachtas Committee on Finance and the Public Service should set up a similar committee to investigate the proposal made this morning about bankers, investors and everyone associated with the banking world. It is a worthwhile suggestion and we could take it to the Committee on Procedures and Privileges. If it wanted to sit on Mondays and Fridays when we do not sit, we could consider if the Seanad Chamber could be given the opportunity for it to sit here. That is a matter over which the Cathaoirleach has total control and I fully respect that but to give the committee the respect and everything the people would wish to see happen and taking place, I would like to think we could do everything we possibly could here in Seanad Éireann.

While the committee members might be deliberating on that, and we fully support them in it, I certainly will announce to the House this morning that immediately after the Christmas recess I intend to have a debate in this House on banking specifically to see how banking can be freed up. I will have the Minister for Finance himself come to the House to discuss this because I have never seen so many retail friends who are holding on just for Christmas and who do not want to wake up on 1 January. This is a serious situation and it is a huge challenge. The SME sector is going through a dreadful time and we must do all we can. It is my intention on the first Thursday after the recess, if the Minister's diary allows him to be available, that we will have the Minister for Finance, Deputy Brian Lenihan, in the House to have a debate on money becoming available for the SME sector as a matter of urgency and what we can do about it. We are not worth our salt as legislators, neither the Dáil or the Seanad, if we do not.

Now that we have taken so much equity in our major banks and will have to take more and will have to invest more on behalf of the taxpayers, the priority has got to be jobs and competitiveness next year. The Government has taken on a serious challenge on competitiveness in the public sector but those in the private sector have experienced reductions as much as 50% in their income and in their wages. We must protect the captains of industry who employ people and continue to employ them. Their savings are now nearly at an end, their overdraft facilities are almost at an end and something must be done in this regard. I ask colleagues over the Christmas period to be prepared for that all-day debate that we hope we can have on 21 January on how we can free up capital for small and medium-sized businesses and the retail sector in particular.

Senator Donohoe and others expressed serious concerns regarding children at three, four and five years of age and about supports for children. Senator Mary White and Senator Prendergast called for a debate on suicide. I acknowledge and congratulate the Minister of State, Deputy John Moloney, on working so hard in this portfolio since he was appointed by the Taoiseach and on the €47 million his Department has acquired and ring-fenced in the budget. It is a start to meet the challenge, as the Senators have said this morning, and I gave a commitment yesterday that we will have a debate on this at the earliest time after we come back.

Senator O'Toole raised No. 33, motion 21, the all-party motion regarding free trade with Colombia. We certainly have supported our MEPs and our Government in everything they are trying to do about the dreadful circumstances in which the people of Colombia find themselves.

Senators O'Toole, Buttimer, Ó Brolcháin and Bacik raised the issue of hunting, with Senator O'Toole proposing this should be left to local authorities in each area. This is something we can discuss when the legislation is to come to the House. I understand it is at an advanced stage and Senator O'Toole has made a worthwhile proposal and suggestion in this regard in the Seanad this morning.

Senator O'Toole also called for a debate on education and I have already agreed and acceded to this taking place. He also called for a debate with the Minister for Health and Children, as did Senator Alex White, on the Supreme Court decision. We certainly will discuss this at the earliest time after our return. The Minister has made a statement on it since then and we will do everything we can in this House to support the sensitive circumstances in the Supreme Court outlined to the House by Senator White.

Senators Daly, Ó Brolcháin, Leyden, Norris and Bacik called for a debate on Gaza. Senator Daly outlined the 550 page report to the House and the horrific experience of three young girls being shot dead. I have no difficulty in agreeing to having the Minister for Foreign Affairs come here and discuss this after the recess.

Senator Leyden raised the report of the Law Reform Commission regarding the protection of persons in their home. The commission also presented a draft form of a Bill for legislation for the consideration of the Minister and we will deliberate on this over Christmas and I have no difficulty in having a debate on this on our return.

Senator Buttimer called for a debate with the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government on flood issues. As I have said in the House yesterday, this is something we certainly will try to do everything we can and not let go away to see whether we can help and assist those unfortunate people who have had this horrific experience over recent weeks.

Senator Ó Brolcháin called for a debate on community development and I have no difficulty in having time left aside for this. Perhaps at its next Private Members' Time, the Green Party could consider having this as the topic.

Senators Prendergast and Mary White called for a debate on ageism and everything to do with the challenges facing those who have a huge amount of experience and complete dedication to work. I fully agree with Senator Mary White on outlining the experience of those in the workforce in the United States of America. Perhaps the Government should seriously consider this and I certainly agree to have a debate on that take place in the House. It is something for our parliamentary party, in which the Senator has always been so forceful in deliberating on those issues. I fully support that this morning.

Mary White (Fianna Fail)
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I got it into the programme for Government in June 2007 that a person would have control over his retirement date.

Pat Moylan (Fianna Fail)
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The Leader is replying to the Order of Business.

Mary White (Fianna Fail)
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We should deliver on that.

Donie Cassidy (Fianna Fail)
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I fully agree with the Senator's views regarding the Abbey Theatre going to O'Connell Street and I refer to my comments on yesterday's Order of Business. Senator McFadden and Senator Quinn outlined to the House the difficulties being experienced as a result of the budget decision on the reduction in excise duty which comes at a difficult time. I will convey their strong views to the Minister and ask for an indication regarding this massive challenge which I heard debated on radio yesterday. It is a difficult issue but I am confident the Department of Finance will meet these distributors at least half way.

Senator Norris spoke about the evening he spent in St. Ann's church. Anyone who missed his television appearance last Sunday night will have an opportunity to see it again on Friday night when he appears on "Val Falvey TD". The matter with regard to the Charities Bill can be taken up on the Appropriation Bill tomorrow morning. It is the first item on tomorrow's Order of Business.

Senator Norris spoke about how the Houses of the Oireachtas are portrayed in the media and how the empty seats are highlighted. We know that colleagues have to be in their offices and have to meet deputations and attend meetings in various locations. If memory serves me right the editing of the broadcast of this House is entirely in the control of the Joint Administration Committee, the former broadcast committee and it is one of its functions. As a member of that committee I will raise it with the new Chairman when he takes office in the next few days to see what can be done. Colleagues are working hard enough and long enough and this is an area we should highlight. I have often viewed myself in this House. I question why the editors would identify empty rows in the Chamber all the time rather than take head and shoulder shots of speakers or of the beautiful background such as the fireplaces and the doors and give an impression of the beautiful ambience of this Chamber. It is important to remain positive.

Senator Coffey raised the issue of the plight of senior citizens in Waterford and hopes they can be blessed as happened the people in Kenmare. I support him in his call. The next time the Minister is in the House I suggest Senator Coffey raises this issue. I will speak to the Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism, Deputy Cullen, in the meantime to see what he can do. I know the people of Waterford are delighted with their new bridge and the new road as a result of the Minister's hard work and endeavour down through the years and the beautiful city of Waterford will benefit from it. Senator Coffey asked for a debate on the elderly. The social welfare Bill is in the House all day today. As this is the last sitting week before the recess I strongly suggest the Senator brings this to the Minister's attention while she is in the House today.