Donie Cassidy (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

The Order of Business is No. 1, statements regarding the current situation in Zimbabwe; and No. 2, Electricity Regulation (Amendment) (EirGrid) Bill 2008 — Committee and Remaining Stages. It is proposed that No. 1 will commence at the conclusion of the Order of Business and will conclude within 75 minutes. Spokespersons may speak for five minutes and Senators may share time. The Minister is to be called upon ten minutes from the end of the debate for concluding comments and to take questions from party leaders. It is proposed to take No. 2 at the conclusion of No. 1.

Frances Fitzgerald (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I would like to move an amendment to the Order of Business to allow a discussion on the economic situation, as requested last week. A number of new reports published in recent days have given us further reason for concern. In April 2008, the current Taoiseach stated that he was not worried about the slowdown in the construction sector. In September 2007, he stated, "Our economy is stronger than at any time in our country's history." One must question his actions as the Minister for Finance. Dr. Alan Barrett, author of the ESRI report, stated, "Everyone knows the downturn in the public finances is because Government blew the finances from the boom which everybody knew would be temporary".

A further report yesterday is cause for concern because it stated that, in comparisons between the first quarter of this year and the first quarter of 2007, GDP fell by 1.5%, the output of new houses fell by 30%, industrial production registered a decline and the private sector is contracting. Last week, Senator Ross and other Members referred to the banks, which will appear before a committee tomorrow. What contacts have there been between the Government and the banks?

People are worried. It is a question of facing reality, trying to determine precisely the economy's state from the Government's perspective and how the latter intends to handle this serious situation. Frontline services are suffering cutbacks.

Frances Fitzgerald (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Instead, there should be better management of public finances and an attempt to deal with the appalling waste on a variety of projects over many years. Before entering the Chamber, I received a telephone call from a woman who was concerned about her father. He is in hospital and needs a bed in a nursing home. The family does not know whether he will get a contract bed. This case is replicated across the country.

Yesterday, the Carers Association launched a report entitled, Listening to Carers, which it undertook with the Equality Authority of Ireland. As every Senator knows, families are being unsupported because of cutbacks in home help services. The current system of delivering care to the elderly in communities is unsustainable because families, who do not have the necessary supports or provision of care, will not be able to cope. What has happened to the €110 million promised for the fair deal on nursing homes? Will it be ring-fenced or will it be siphoned off to address other emergencies?

Both Houses are entitled to be told by the Government how it intends to handle this economic crisis. In the absence of a clear plan or rationale, there will be HSE cutbacks and finances will be moved from areas of need.

I must again refer to the other report published since the House last met, the report of the expert group on mental health services. We have had several discussions here on the need to prioritise mental health services and to implement the strategy, A Vision for Change. Yet, the expert group which was asked by the Government to examine this area has advised it does not know where the money has gone. Some €24 million of €51 million funds allocated to implement the mental health strategy, A Vision for Change, have not been used.

I call for a debate on the economy to enable the Leader and the Members of the House to hear of the experience of Senators on the current situation. We must hear from the Government about how it intends to deal with the current crisis.

Joe O'Toole (Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context

On a radio show last Sunday morning I talked to a white Zimbabwean farmer — or Rhodesian farmer, as we would have referred to him previously — who employs 150 people. He spoke about the reign of terror at play there and about the abductions, kidnappings and beatings. He spoke freely and expressed his disappointment at the western world. He talked about Archbishop Tutu asking for military intervention and supported that request. He talked about President Mbeki letting the people down, he having been supported by Zimbabwe when he fought for rights in his own country many years ago.

Two hours after this man finished answering questions from me on issues such as sanctions and other matters on the telephone, he was abducted from his farm. He was beaten, his mother-in-law and father-in-law were taken with him and they were tortured. I have left on the Cathaoirleach's desk a photograph of him lying in a coma in a Harare hospital. This is work of the man whose success is now being feted, hugged and feasted in Egypt.

David Norris (Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context

It is shocking.

Joe O'Toole (Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I wrote to the Minister for Foreign Affairs yesterday requesting that the Irish Government take urgent action to protect decent people who are challenging the repressive regime in Zimbabwe.

Senators:

Hear, hear.

Joe O'Toole (Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I would like the House to support that point.

Senators:

Hear, hear.

Joe O'Toole (Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I wish to raise another matter, which has been raised on two or three occasions previously, the question of the economy, competitiveness and wages. It is interesting to stress again a point I have made many times. The issue in question is not only about salaries, pay pauses and all that goes with that. What we set out to do was to ensure that people shared the wealth of this country. The point is often made that salaries and labour costs are the problem. I will leave the House with one piece of information; the best paid workers in Europe are in the Scandinavian countries, in Finland, Sweden and the other Nordic countries. Their economies are also the most competitive. That is the question the Government must answer and the one with which we must deal when we talk about examining saving public funds. I look forward to a fuller debate on this issue. Senator Fitzgerald's proposal to have a debate on the economy is crucially important.

Alan Kelly (Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Being consistent with what I said last week, I, too, would welcome a debate on the economy. It is necessary that it take place prior to the recess.

The figures released since we last met are startling. We knew that housing output would be one third of what it was last year. People have mortgages, yet rates have increased to6%. People with young families are finding it tight in terms of managing their finances. They are suffering.

We need to debate this issue. We need to come up not only with words but solutions and to offer some advice to the Government who have mishandled this area and have done so for many years. I have said on record previously that the current Taoiseach has been responsible for the turnaround in the economy.

I want to raise an issue I have raised previously, that of not only how the Department of Health and Children works with the HSE but how the HSE conducts its affairs separate from the way outlined in its strategy. On a number of occasions I have referred to the requirement to publish the Teamwork report into acute services, especially as it affects the north west. I have even submitted FOI requests on it or similar reports but have received no response. Yet to my amazement, I found the basic tenets of this report contained in an e-mail. This is the way the HSE decides to run its affairs. It is spin after spin. One can take my word, these e-mails are real. Reports are emanating from meetings with Professor Drumm in which he is telling hospital managers what is happening to their future, without ever saying so publicly. I have seen these reports and e-mails in which he has made decisions about acute care, particularly in the mid west, and the effect they will have on Nenagh General Hospital, Ennis General Hospital and the mid west general hospital in Dooradoyle, Limerick. Acute services will be cut from Nenagh General Hospital and the accident and emergency department and care of the elderly will be affected. We can have an argument about this issue. We can discuss it and disagree on it, and I vehemently disagree, but at least he should say so publicly.

The Teamwork report was meant to be published in February, March and April but has not yet been published. Yet I can receive its contents in an e-mail. Many politicians in the mid west have seen this e-mail. This is ridiculous and it has to stop. The HSE cannot run its affairs by spin which is what it is doing. I ask the Leader to approach the Minister and the Taoiseach in regard to this matter. This issue has gone on for too long. Let Professor Drumm announce his strategies and go public on them and let us have real debate rather than this drip feed of information that has continued for far too long.

Fiona O'Malley (Progressive Democrats)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I thank you, a Chathaoirligh, and the Ceann Comhairle, for the wonderful family day that took place at the weekend. I was here on Sunday where I met you, a Chathaoirligh. It was a tremendous weekend which saw these Houses and this building in a new light. There was great excitement among all those who participated. I look forward to another such day. I acknowledge it was a good idea and should be repeated.

Will the Leader ask the Minister with responsibility for the Office of Public Works to come before the House? I make this request in light of the very embarrassing revelations that the renovation of offices for Deputy Bertie Ahern cost so much money. It is particularly unfortunate for Deputy Ahern because, I am sure, he did not request such expensive work to be done on his behalf. I understand it did not need ministerial approval. Given that we are moving into a situation where money is tight, it is an outrage and an embarrassment——

Fiona O'Malley (Progressive Democrats)
Link to this: Individually | In context

——that this amount of money is paid to refurbish some offices. I feel particularly sorry for Deputy Ahern because I am sure he is embarrassed about it.

Fiona O'Malley (Progressive Democrats)
Link to this: Individually | In context

It is also embarrassing to learn that the Office of Public Works paid the market rate for the work. It is embarrassing for everybody in politics because all of us suffer as a result of it. I am sure the Minister would like to come before the House to explain the position and to let us know that nothing like it will happen again. That €200,000 should be spent on office refurbishment is outrageous and it should not happen. It is an insult to every other citizen in the country to be told that it is the market rate. We all know better.

Maurice Cummins (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

It was waste in the first place.

Fiona O'Malley (Progressive Democrats)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I would be grateful if the Leader would request the Minister with responsibility to come before the House.

Paul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I second Senator Frances Fitzgerald's proposal in regard to the amendment to the Order of Business. This is a very serious and sharp economic downturn. I do not think any Member on either side would deny that. Contrary to what was said by the Taoiseach, as quoted by Senator Fitzgerald, we need to worry very much about construction because everything is contracting. The cranes are coming down all the time, many are down already. They have disappeared off the sites, many of which have closed. Sadly, more are closing.

A matter about which everyone in the House will be seriously concerned is the contraction on council housing programmes. We are well aware of the local authority housing lists. This is important infrastructure for our people. We must continue the house building programme at local authority level. We do not want to see it contracting. The county manager in any local authority area will verify that.

Regardless of the meeting tomorrow between the banks and the joint committee, I said two weeks ago that I accept banks have liquidity ratios to meet and must be prudent. The banks and the Government need to speak with the one voice on this but we are going nowhere. If this continues we will not have a recession but stagnation. I support the amendment to the Order of Business because it is important that we have the debate as a matter of urgency, and that we hear the Government's proposals, because it is up to the Government to address the matter.

Pat Moylan (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Senator Coghlan should speak on the Order of Business. We can discuss those issues in the debate if granted by the Leader.

Paul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

As ever, I accept what the Cathaoirleach says.

I asked the Leader some weeks ago to allow a debate on the local electoral areas that were announced recently. I understand he was favourably disposed. I am sure they are wise in most respects but in the other House last week Deputy Healy-Rae drew attention to an anomaly, and I endorse what he said in that regard. l do not understand how Dromin alongside Killorglin town and encompassing Dunmaniheen was included in the Dingle electoral area when areas much further from Killorglin such as Kilbonane and Lahard——

Pat Moylan (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

That Bill will come before both Houses soon. I saw it circulated recently. We can discuss the matter then.

Paul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

——are removed from Killarney to Killorglin. That is just one instance but there are many other anomalies. I am sure the Cathaoirleach is aware of such cases in the midlands. It is important that we have the debate. I am not sure about the Bill to which the Cathaoirleach referred. I believe he is referring to the Electoral (Amendment) Bill relating to the new Dáil constituencies whereas I am talking about council electoral areas. The Leader was favourably disposed to a debate previously. I would like to hear his opinion on the matter I have raised. Perhaps he intends to discuss those matters also when the Bill to which the Cathaoirleach referred will be discussed.

Labhrás Ó Murchú (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

The vast majority of people in Northern Ireland subscribe to the Christian faith and they regard that as their cherished birthright. Throughout all the difficult and brutal times in Northern Ireland, the Christian churches stood together united against strife and tried to promote a positive approach among people. The church leaders played a significant and central role in the peace process. It is very encouraging to see young people wanting to continue that tradition. Not only that, but they want to manifest this by wearing a symbol that relates to their religion, generally a crucifix. It is wrong that the regulation, which I understand will be implemented in the near future, will prevent young people in Northern Ireland from wearing a crucifix or for that matter, a pioneer pin. It is a pity that we are preventing this at a time when we would like to see young people embrace religion and not just be concerned with material things. It is taking multiculturalism too far when the native population has to accept that type of development. I do not believe our very welcome visitors would expect that of us.

I also remember a very generous action in a religious sense some years ago when there was a demand to take the angelus off the radio. It was the Church of Ireland that defended the Catholic Church on that occasion. The reason I raise the matter here is that if this is going to happen in Northern Ireland, one can take it as fairly certain there will be a strong lobby to prevent young people here expressing their Christian beliefs when they go to school. That is not right and it is not good for society. It is not in keeping with tradition. I do not believe any country should be expected to give up its birthright in that way.

Rónán Mullen (Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I congratulate my colleague, Senator Ó Murchú for raising a pertinent issue and speaking about it with his usual eloquence.

I rise to ask for a further debate on human trafficking in light of the disturbing new statistics available from Ruhama, which, as everybody here knows, does excellent work accompanying people involved in prostitution. Ruhama reports a two thirds increase in the number of referrals to it. People may not know that 90% of women in the sex industry are non-nationals and many of them are trafficked persons. Ruhama also reports dealing with a number of minors. One such minor in the sex industry was trafficked into the country at the age of 14. Since the enactment of the Criminal Law (Human Trafficking) Act it is a crime to purchase the services of a trafficked person. However, we need further debate to see how we can tackle the demand as well as the supply. It is time to reopen the debate about following the Swedish model where it is a crime to purchase the services of a person in prostitution.

We also need to end the complacency within officialdom. A spokesperson for the Garda press office, who recently appeared on a TV3 documentary on trafficking, said that basically trafficking was not a big problem. He said they had not found evidence of significant levels of trafficking into this country for sexual exploitation. He said they had only found "snippets". Where is the Garda getting its statistics? Given that Operation Quest is confined to Dublin, where is the serious intent not just to find out about the extent of trafficking but also to tackle it? We need to end the complacency. We need to have a debate and we should start in this House. It should focus on the need to criminalise the users of persons in the sex industry so that we can tackle the demand as well as the supply and make this country a cold house for traffickers.

Pat Moylan (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

The point is made.

Rónán Mullen (Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I wish to raise the issue of Zimbabwe. I welcome what Senator O'Toole has said on the matter. I was in Áras an Uachtaráin recently. On my way out I saw a tree that had been planted, the inscription on which stated gurbh é Robert Mugabe an duine a chur an crann sin.

That was in the good days when this man may have represented a beacon of hope.

David Norris (Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context

In a debate in UCD he attacked gay people and got applauded by the audience for doing it.

Rónán Mullen (Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Since then this man and his bestial regime have not been planting trees but have been pursuing a scorched earth policy in human terms.

Pat Moylan (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

We cannot have the debate now. The point is made.

Rónán Mullen (Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Why does the international community look on impotently while he does it? When will we act?

Larry Butler (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Social partnership has served us extremely well over the years. I have listened to various comments from the social partners that things are not going too well in that process. When we have a recession or a downturn in the economy it is important to get agreement with the social partners. I support the Minister for Social and Family Affairs, Deputy Hanafin. The unions have an obligation to protect people on low wages, people who have old-age pensions and single people living very close to the poverty line. We have made considerable improvements in these areas. The Minister has said that these people will be protected. However, the unions have an obligation to secure a partnership agreement at this time. Senator O'Toole said that benchmarking was a cash cow and an ATM.

Joe O'Toole (Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context

On a point of order, I never made either comment.

Larry Butler (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I want to inform the Senator that the cow is dry and the ATM is empty. He should talk to his colleagues in the unions to look after the people who are less well off. The unions have a major part to play in this.

Pat Moylan (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

The Senator has made his point.

Larry Butler (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

The public service needs to be paid for. It is paid for by the people who make money and export our goods. All of us, including the unions, have an obligation to ensure that we continue to work to make ourselves efficient in providing jobs. Recently 500 jobs went to Bangalore. Why are the unions not sitting down with management in that regard? They could agree to extend the working week, for argument's sake, with more productivity.

Joe O'Toole (Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context

That is because they announced it before they spoke to the unions.

Pat Moylan (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

The Senator's point is made.

Larry Butler (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

It is all very well for people to talk now. We have a job to do.

David Norris (Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context

The Government should get on and do the job.

Larry Butler (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I want a debate on the economy. I want to put down markers here that are very relevant.

Pat Moylan (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

The Senator can do that in the debate.

Larry Butler (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I am not listening to the other side of the House too much because I know the trouble they got the economy into years ago.

Nicky McFadden (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I welcome the remarks of the Minister for Social and Family Affairs, Deputy Hanafin, over the weekend when she said her Department will be able to assure the hundreds of unfortunates who have lost their jobs that they will be looked after. As a spokesperson in the Seanad for social and family affairs I welcome the Minister's reassurance. However, I attended a meeting on Friday, of which Senator Cassidy will be aware, about the fact that in Westmeath disabled persons and essential repairs grants have run dry. These are the most vulnerable people in our society and we will apply for more money to top up this fund to keep these people out of nursing homes and hospitals. Will the Leader clarify whether we will be able to get this extra money to keep the old and infirm out of hospitals and allow them to live in the comfort of their own homes without it being at the expense of all the people who will have to be looked after by the Department of Social and Family Affairs? People have been on this waiting list for two years. If the money is already spent by July, it does not augur well for the rest of the term. For the people of Westmeath, those awaiting essential repairs and disabled persons grants, I ask the Leader to clarify the position.

Ann Ormonde (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I support the call of my colleague, Senator Mullen, for a debate on human trafficking, especially in the context of sexual exploitation. We all have read many reports down through the months, one of which, I recall, suggested the Garda must have an input into how this issue is reported. We must have an up-to-date position. Our having a debate in the House would highlight the concerns that exist. I support that.

Paschal Donohoe (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I join Senator O'Malley in recognising the success of the Oireachtas family day over the weekend. I was lucky enough to be able to attend on Sunday and it was a delight to see so many people who have not been in the Oireachtas before come in, see how it works and have an opportunity to see the wonderful premises in which we are privileged to serve. It was an inaugural event which I hope will be repeated in the future. I recognise the role the Cathaoirleach played in welcoming people as they came in and making everyone feel at home.

I also concur with Senator O'Malley's request for a debate on the operation of the Office of Public Works. I admire her political deftness in raising the point because it merits discussion. I do not share her surprise at the money that was spent. I remind her that this expenditure took place in a Government of which she is a member and which she supports.

Fiona O'Malley (Progressive Democrats)
Link to this: Individually | In context

It needed no political sanction.

Paschal Donohoe (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

The OPW is part of the Government which the Progressive Democrats supports and in which it has a Minister who sits at the Cabinet table. While I am disappointed to see such continued waste in Government spending, I am not surprised to see it happen.

Frances Fitzgerald (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Hear, hear. Former Deputy Tom Parlon.

Paschal Donohoe (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I concur with Senator Fitzgerald's request for a debate on the economy. In February 2007 the ISEQ index stood at more than 10,000 points. At lunchtime today it was slightly in excess of 5,000 points. Standard & Poor's, the rating agency on which many of our companies depend, issued six statements in which it changed the ratings Irish banks enjoy. It slightly downgraded the ratings two of our leading mortgage providers enjoy.

Tomorrow afternoon the Minister for Finance will come to the House to debate the OECD report on public services. Given it is the day when the Exchequer returns will be published and on which there are continued warning signs on the health of the economy upon which our public services depend, I suggest we use this opportunity with the Minister for Finance to debate the points Senator Fitzgerald and others have made. Otherwise, there will be a sense of unreality about the debate tomorrow that would lead to me to think the Government is trying to dodge that debate instead of engaging in it.

David Norris (Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I would welcome a debate on the economy and I share the concern expressed by colleagues, in particular with regard to the response of the Government to what is a critical economic situation, which appears to be to license every possible form of gambling, including casinos, which would not give one much encouragement.

I hope to take the opportunity to speak on Zimbabwe so I will not refer to it now except to repeat what I said in a previous intervention, namely, that President Mugabe was actually cheered out of the O'Reilly Hall when he attacked gay people, which was very regrettable.

On that subject, I am sorry that owing to a health problem I was not able to be in the House last week to mention the Government's proposed civil partnerships Bill. What is the timescale for this legislation? I will not be going into paroxysms of forelock-touching gratitude for an improvement in my second class status, which is what it is and nothing else. This is in defiance of the republican principles that are so often prated about in this House and in defiance of the very clear words of the former Taoiseach, Deputy Bertie Ahern.

On foot of this, I asked the appropriate authorities in this House if I could pass on pension rights to my partner. The answer was "No". That is the degree of equality we have. While I welcome that some of these matters will be addressed in the civil partnerships Bill, it is second class citizenship. The Minister's office contacted me subsequently and I understand a number of these matters will be dealt with under separate headings in the Finance Bill and the Social Welfare Bill. I am not sure this is the best way but I will consider it and it will probably have my support.

Nothing would be more likely or calculated to drive me into the arms of the Minister, Deputy Dermot Ahern, than the opposition of people such as Senator Walsh on the Government side, and, regrettably, some on my own side.

Pat Moylan (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Please, Senator. This is the Order of Business.

David Norris (Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I must say this. I feel very angry, hurt, upset and disgusted by the mean-minded attempts by a small rump around here to drain every little atom of celebration, affirmation and joy from these proceedings. Those people are usually the ones who go on about being Christian. I deplore this. It makes me ashamed that there should be such mean-mindedness in this House.

Pat Moylan (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Senator——

David Norris (Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context

If there is a real concern about marriage, I will sign up to anything. Where do Senators think I came out of? I came out of a long, good and happy marriage.

Pat Moylan (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

The point has been made.

David Norris (Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I will support marriage and everything in terms of civil partnership and civil marriage for gay people. Members should ask that grandmother, Mrs. Gill, in the heartland of this country whether she is supporting marriage or attacking it. I know who is attacking marriage in this country. It is the people who do not know when they are well off, how to support marriage or how to be generous.

Pat Moylan (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

The point has been made. I call Senator Regan.

Eugene Regan (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I refer to a statement made by the Leader, Senator Donie Cassidy, last Thursday, when he referred to the new Senators in the House. He complained about certain interruptions from these benches. We have been very patient with the Leader in his replies each week to the Order of Business and the questions raised. Indeed, we have been more patient than Senators on the Fianna Fáil benches, who appear to scarper when he begins his reply.

On the issue of talking down to new Senators and referring to them as if it is their first day in school, the new Senators in this House come with a wealth of experience and qualifications and much political acumen.

Alan Kelly (Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Well said.

Eugene Regan (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I ask that the Leader would desist from talking down in that fashion.

The Leader also has a tendency to avoid the specific questions raised in the debate. I asked last week if he would comment on the lack of experience and qualifications, whether in the economic, commercial, banking or financial spheres, of the Taoiseach, Tánaiste and Minister for Finance to manage the economy. I got no answer. The Leader has an unfortunate tendency to lecture these benches and to introduce old stories——

Donie Cassidy (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

The Senator is no stranger to lecturing himself.

Eugene Regan (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

——that are designed to distract from the points that are made and the failures of the Government which are highlighted by Members on this side of the House. I find his replies tedious, tiresome and long-winded and I ask that the Leader would not talk down to new Senators in this House ——

Pat Moylan (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

The point is made. We are on the Order of Business now.

Eugene Regan (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

——and I ask that he would bear that in mind. If we are to have constructive debates, new Senators should not be denigrated in the manner in which they have been.

On the basis of treating people equally, I wish to refer to a case to be heard in the European Court tomorrow relating to mandatory retirement ages. The case has been referred from the United Kingdom and centres on the question of whether the European framework employment directive has been properly implemented. We have implemented that legislation in Ireland and we have mandatory retirement ages in the private and public sectors. It is time to review the issue of retirement ages. The OECD has presented a report, which has been approved, but not implemented, by this Government, which calls for an end to the compulsory retirement age of 65, in light of the pension crisis in Europe. I ask the Leader to clarify the Government's position on this issue. Has the Government intervened in the European Court case, the hearing of which takes place in Luxembourg tomorrow? I ask him to arrange a debate on the issue of retirement ages and mandatory retirement.

I second the request made by Senator Frances Fitzgerald to amend the Order of Business to allow for a discussion on the economy.

Ivana Bacik (Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I support the comments of my colleague Senator Norris regarding civil partnership. In particular, like him, I was very disappointed to read of a small rump of Fianna Fáil Senators who are opposing the principle of civil partnership. I hope they will not have any influence on the Government in changing tack on this policy.

I also support those who have spoken about the Oireachtas family day, which I attended on Sunday. It was hugely encouraging to see so many people coming in, enjoying the sunshine and having the Houses of the Oireachtas open to them for the first time. It was a wonderful experience. I am sure I am not the only Member who agrees with what Miriam Lord wrote in yesterday's The Irish Times, namely, that at a time when we are reading about appalling and horrific events in Zimbabwe and the dreadful distortion of democracy in that country, there is lesson for us all on how important it is that we make our Houses of Parliament accessible to all and that we make sure our democracy works in a transparent and open way. The events on Saturday and Sunday were part of that process.

I should point out that the hot air balloon was not working when I was here on Sunday and a few people commented to the effect that it was the first time there was a shortage of hot air in Leinster House, but we can take such quips on the chin.

I support Senator Fitzgerald's call for a debate on the economy. I read that the Minister for Finance, Deputy Brian Lenihan, has described himself as having to make "savings", not cutbacks but one person's savings are another person's cutbacks. As others have said, when HSE frontline staff are being told that they cannot recruit people to replace colleagues on maternity or annual leave, it is time for an urgent debate on the economy.

I also support calls for a debate on human trafficking. I read of Ruhama's recent figures on trafficking and one issue of particular importance is that the majority of the women that organisation is working with who were trafficked here for sexual purposes last year are living outside Dublin. Although we have legislation in place, we must also have supports in place, particularly for those women in isolated rural areas where organisations like Ruhama cannot provide a service.

Pat Moylan (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

We are on the Order of Business.

Pat Moylan (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

The point has been made.

Pat Moylan (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

The point has been made.

Pat Moylan (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I understand but the Senator has repeated the point on a number of occasions.

Donie Cassidy (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

And they will not hear from them.

Fiona O'Malley (Progressive Democrats)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Unbelievable.

Larry Butler (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

More hot air from Senator Buttimer.

Frances Fitzgerald (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

It is not hot air.

John Gerard Hanafin (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I ask the Leader for a debate on the economy at the earliest opportunity although not today. It is opportune for us to have a debate because there is a misconception as to what is happening. A slowdown is taking place. There will be negative growth this year by a very small percentage. However, we have already seen two such slowdowns in the past ten years and have managed them very well. If the ESRI report is read in full, it shows that growth in the economy will resume within 18 months. What are needed are a steady hand and head and prudent management, which I am sure we will get from this Government.

I would also like to note on the Order of Business today that we often see the tyranny of the liberals. This tyranny allows them to use abusive terms like "rump" to speak about people who hold legitimate views. People should see how intolerant these so-called liberals truly are.

David Norris (Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I will pray for the Senator.

Shane Ross (Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I join with what everybody said about the Oireachtas family day, which was tremendous. Perhaps we could spare a thought for the ushers who did a tremendous job on that day and are not always appreciated.

Paul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Hear, hear.

Shane Ross (Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I know the ushers give freely of their time and it could not have been done without them.

I am not sure whether I am in total agreement on the need for a debate on the economy. We have had many debates on the economy in this House and if we were very honest about it, I am not sure whether anyone listens to them.

Talks are taking place in Government Buildings to which Senator Butler referred. The reality is that the social partners, particularly the trade unions, IBEC and Father Seán Healy, who is representing somebody up there, are listened to far more than are we in this House. These are not just pay talks because they involve issues that confront the entire economy. If we really think the social partners read the Seanad debate every time an issue emerges or when they come to a decision or discuss the subject, we are fooling ourselves. If we are going to discuss the economy, we should be listened to and not just talk to a Minister of State who does not necessarily have much input into what happens in Government Buildings. The issue is whether the social partners have too much power and whether we have very little or no power.

The second issue I raise is the one raised by Senator Regan. We are all a bit long-winded and are rather indulged by the Chair. I have learned to admire and listen to at length what Senator Regan has to say on the Order of Business. To accuse the Leader of being long-winded in his reply is somewhat unfair. His replies are full, frank and combative but Senator Regan would be the first person to accuse him of not giving a full reply if he did not answer the Senator's questions. There may be come criticisms that can be made of him but that one is extraordinarily unfair. He tries, not always successfully, to reply to our questions reasonably adequately. He does so in a full way but Senator Regan's criticism is totally unfair because if the Leader replied in one minute, refused all requests and said goodbye, Senator Regan would be the first to criticise him. His replies are excellent and we should applaud him.

Paul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

The Leader was not expecting that plaudit.

Maurice Cummins (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

The humanitarian organisation, GOAL, has expressed its concern with the ongoing situation whereby millions of euro of Irish taxpayers' money is going to the Government of Ethiopia. Ethiopian troops have forcibly displaced entire rural communities and villages and recently assassinated at least 150 civilians. Ethiopian troops are also involved in Somalia. Over recent months, GOAL volunteers and aid workers have witnessed a major increase in malnourished children attending the clinics, yet it is only in the past few weeks that the Government of Ethiopia has accepted that there is a famine and is looking for aid. This has taken place after the Ethiopian Government refused visas to aid workers to help these people.

Does the Irish Government believe the Ethiopian Government can be trusted to spend public money for the good of some of the world's most vulnerable people? I question the practice of funding Ethiopia bilaterally. I ask that the Minister clarify the position as a matter of urgency.

Joe O'Reilly (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I support the request for the overdue debate on the economic situation in this country, which is grievous and needs addressing. It is the product of many years of mismanagement by this Government. I want this debate to be focused on front-line services. There have been cutbacks in the effort to reduce class sizes and in the summer works scheme in schools and mental health services. There is also the embargo on recruitment of front-line staff in the Health Service Executive. When the Leader and Senator McFadden have doled out largesse to Westmeath County Council for the continuation of necessary schemes, I trust they will see fit to support similar requests from Cavan County Council. We need a focused debate on those issues when addressing the topic of the economy.

I support Senator O'Toole because what is happening in Zimbabwe is the greatest horror in the world. Our Government should be at the front of that, as it should on the Ethiopian question.

Pat Moylan (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

There is a debate on that later.

Joe O'Reilly (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I join in the good wishes towards the Cathaoirleach, the Ceann Comhairle and the staff, including Cáit Hayes, Michelle Conville and the ushers, on the great success of the family day at Leinster House. I was privileged to be there with my family. It was an excellent day and this wonderful exercise should be repeated. I join in the remarks referring to the Cathaoirleach. It was great to see him at the front welcoming families. It can only get rid of the disconnect between people and the Parliament.

Fidelma Healy Eames (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Last week, I spoke about the need for the re-instatement of the school BCG vaccination programme for sixth class pupils. In a further development, it appears we have no immunisation programme for babies and public health doctors are in broad agreement that this is the best time for a child to be vaccinated. The longer a child is without a vaccine, the more unprotected he or she is. Yesterday, a mother of a seven month old baby telephoned me to state she could not get the vaccine for her child anywhere in Galway. When will the BCG vaccine for babies be available to protect them against TB?

I support Senator Fitzgerald's amendment to the Order of Business with regard to a debate on the economy. Yesterday, I spoke to a major developer in Galway. He has one of the last remaining construction sites open in Galway. He told me that 50 different workers come to the site every day to seek jobs. Yesterday, we also learned that interest rates have broken 6% for the first time in recent years.

Pat Moylan (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

This will be included in the debate if the Leader agrees to it.

Fidelma Healy Eames (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

On the day we learned that all learner drivers must be accompanied from now on, it appears it is vital the Taoiseach, Deputy Cowen, is accompanied by someone qualified to manage and lead the economy at this critical juncture. He has failed in his provisional in finance.

I have two questions for the Leader in this regard. Why, as Minister for Finance, did the Taoiseach, Deputy Cowen, not let the people know the truth about the economy? The figures were rolling into the Department of Finance. What are the sound fundamentals in our economy at present? The people of the country need to know them so we know where we are going. This must be addressed in our debate.

Donie Cassidy (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Senators Fitzgerald, O'Toole, Kelly, Coghlan, Donohoe, Norris, Regan, Bacik, Buttimer, Hanafin, Ross, O'Reilly and Healy Eames called for a special debate on the economy. On the Order of Business tomorrow are statements on the OECD report on integrated public service reforms. On Wednesday week, the Minister will be before the House for a debate on the economy. As all Senators know, the official figures for the first six months will be announced tomorrow and everyone will know them in good time. We can have a full and lengthy debate in the House in which Senators can express their views and be of assistance to the Government on the proposals. We have experienced Senators in the House as well as new, young and energetic Senators whom we welcome very much.

Paul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

That was a good recovery.

Pat Moylan (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

The Leader to reply to the Order of Business without interruption.

Donie Cassidy (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I look forward to helping and assisting anyone who needs help in the area of the wisdom in which they have experienced their own lives and made a success of it. Let us face it. Everyone who got themselves elected to this House has a special talent.

Frances Fitzgerald (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

No doubt about it.

Donie Cassidy (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

The Government would appreciate that these talents were not wasted and were put to good use.

Looking back on the past ten years we see all that was done. Senator McFadden and the Cathaoirleach, who come from the midlands, will agree with me with regard to the new dual carriageway from Kilbeggan to Athlone opening in three weeks' time, just in time for Senator Healy Eames and the Galway races and all those great activities taking place in the west.

Paul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

We are off again.

Donie Cassidy (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Substantial sums are being spent on infrastructure, especially on roads. More than 600,000 houses were built during the past ten years.

Alan Kelly (Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

What about broadband?

Donie Cassidy (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

We also had 600,000 jobs created during the past ten years.

David Norris (Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Where are they now?

Donie Cassidy (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

The boom has been there for ten years. It has not been a secret. It was all done under the stewardship of good Fianna Fáil-led Governments.

Frances Fitzgerald (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

What about health, education, and class sizes?

Pat Moylan (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

The Leader, without interruption.

Donie Cassidy (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I always welcome all constructive criticism. I thank Senator Regan for his remarks but I must agree with the sentiments expressed by the father of the House, its most experienced Member, with regard to the activities, hard work and endeavour I am trying to bring to the House to make it act in a positive fashion. I thank him for these remarks. We are all privileged to be Members of this House and to serve our country. I look at it in that regard every day I attend the House.

Senators O'Toole, Mullen and O'Reilly referred to the situation in Zimbabwe, statements on which will be taken following the Order of Business. I fully agree with their sentiments, particularly those of Senator O'Toole. It is an appalling situation in which the poor people of Zimbabwe find themselves. We will do anything we can on an all-party basis to help them. The Minister for Foreign Affairs, the Taoiseach, the country and the Government must do everything in their power to ease the plight of the poor people of Zimbabwe.

Senator Kelly referred to the HSE and the way it is conducting its affairs. He gave an example of the release of e-mails without consultation with public representatives. I will pass his views on to the Minister for Health and Children.

Senators O'Malley, Donohoe, Bacik, Ross and O'Reilly offered their congratulations to the Cathaoirleach. I also congratulate him and the Ceann Comhairle on their magnificent gesture in opening up the Houses of the Oireachtas to the public over the weekend. It was very much appreciated by everyone who attended and the hard work of the ushers and other staff, the Superintendent and the Captain of the Guard in making this possible was appreciated. It demonstrated to all of us how the public appreciates the great work and endeavour in which we are engaged. It may not be flavour of the month with the media but the people of Ireland are as sound as they ever were. They have always acknowledged the great democratic process in these Houses and they showed that in their thousands over the weekend.

Senators O'Malley, Donohoe and Buttimer expressed serious concerns about the amount spent on the refurbishment of the office of the former Taoiseach. I understand the approval of a Minister was not needed for this but it seems an enormous sum.

Donie Cassidy (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

The Committee of Public Accounts will have Office of Public Works personnel before it to discuss where the money was spent and the cost details because this amount seems way above odds relative to the amount of work.

Frances Fitzgerald (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

It is another example of the ongoing mismanagement of the public finances.

Donie Cassidy (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

However, I do not know how work took place other than what I read in the newspapers. In fairness to all Members, it seems excessive and we would like to know——

Donie Cassidy (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

The offices of the Taoiseach and former Taoisigh must be in standing with the position and those privileged to have been appointed to hold it.

Pat Moylan (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

The Leader, without interruption.

Donie Cassidy (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Let us see what the Office of Public Works tells the Committee of Public Accounts in due course.

I apologise to Senator Burke for not responding to him last Thursday. Both himself and Senator Coghlan referred to the local election areas Bill. I look forward to it being discussed in the House. I do not know when the Government will ask for it be taken but the Bill to change the Dáil and European Parliament constituencies, which affects Westmeath and Longford, as Senator McFadden will be aware, has been published and that will come to the House in due course.

Senator Ó Murchú commented on the Christian churches in Northern Ireland and the wearing of the crucifix and the pioneer pin. I fully agree with the Senator's sentiments. Perhaps it is a step too far. However, he has put the House on notice in this regard and it will not forget the views of the Senator.

Senators Mullen, Ormonde and Bacik called for a debate on human trafficking and I have no difficulty agreeing to that. The Independent group have Private Members' time in the first sitting week in September and that would be the earliest opportune time for this to be discussed in the House.

Senators Butler and McFadden raised concerns about the social partnership talks. Last week I wished the talks well. I watched the "One to One" television programme last night in which one of the most experienced and successful civil servants in the history of the State was interviewed. He served three Taoisigh and he played a major role in bringing the Ryder Cup to Ireland. He outlined his views regarding the challenges facing Ireland. Senator Butler has enormous experience in this area and it would be a wise move to take on board Padraig Ó hUiginn's suggestion that the new agreement should provide income tax relief in return for moderate pay increases. Perhaps this could make the economy competitive again.

The greatest challenge facing us in the new pay talks is getting Ireland back to being competitive. It is frightening when 580 jobs will be lost at the one of the most successful companies in Ireland, which has played a major role in road safety in particular and reducing premiums when the challenge was put down to the insurance industry. The chief executive of Hibernian Insurance provided all the assistance I required as Chairman of the Joint Committee on Enterprise and Small Business at the time and thorough research was carried out. A total of 580 jobs is a huge number to lose and I am disappointed they may leave the country in the long term.

Senator McFadden made the case for additional funding for essential repairs in County Westmeath. I will come back to her on that but I will do everything I can. I assure her regarding the plight of those most in need. If we were all asked who we represent and appreciate, we would reply those on the margins, those who are underprivileged and our senior citizens, who have made an immeasurable contribution to give us the Ireland we have in the 21st century.

Senators Norris, in particular, and Senator Hanafin referred to the civil partnership Bill. Its publication is expected later in the autumn.

David Norris (Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Will that be the full Bill?

Donie Cassidy (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

The heads of the Bill have been published. We are in the consultation stage. That is what is taking place in the parliamentary parties and Fianna Fáil will discuss it and ascertain the views of the parliamentary party over the coming weeks.

Senator Regan asked about the Government's position on mandatory retirement and the retirement age. I will make inquiries and come back to him on it.

Senator Buttimer called on the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government to come to the House for a debate on the toxic waste in Cork Harbour. This is an alarming occurrence and I am sure all Members, including the Deputy Leader, will support Senator Buttimer regarding the importance of assisting——

Dan Boyle (Green Party)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I welcome the Senator's concern.

Donie Cassidy (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Senator Cummins is a hard working and dedicated Whip in ensuring the proceedings of the House run smoothly. He raised questions about the Government's aid programme to Ethiopia and the terrible situation in which the Ethiopian people find themselves. I will pass his strong views on to the Minister for Foreign Affairs following the Order of Business.

Finally, Senator Healy Eames raised the issue of BCG vaccinations and asked when they will be available in Galway. The Senator received a good deal of quite justifiable coverage in the national press over the weekend. I will make inquiries and revert to the Senator in the next day or two.

Pat Moylan (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Senator Eugene Regan has moved an amendment to the Order of Business: "That a debate on the economy be taken today." Is the amendment being pressed?

Frances Fitzgerald (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Yes.