Michael McDowell (Independent) | Oireachtas source

It has not. I would put a lot of money on that it has not. Therefore, under Part III of the Gaming and Lotteries Act 1956, whatever happens in any part of Wexford, despite the abolition of the urban district councils and the like, is unlawful. What can a local authority do? The only people who can act in this matter are members of An Garda Síochána. They can prosecute. They can seize machines under this Act. There are extensive powers of seizure and they are not doing it for some reason. They have been bamboozled by wealthy proprietors of these establishments and doubtful, dodgy lawyers who have suggested the Revenue Commissioners have issued licences for these machines. That is what has happened as a matter of practicality and that was not the fault of the local authorities.

I do not see why the then Minister, Phil Hogan, introduced legislation to abolish urban district councils and town councils. There is, however, no reason whatsoever arising from their abolition to draw the conclusion that the entire county council, or if it chooses the municipal area of a county council, should not have the choice as to whether we have these machines in Navan. There is absolutely no reason that should not be the case. The powers the Minister of State has envisaged under section 96 for vetting these premises will still exist. I have no problem with the gambling authority saying this particular premises is unsuitable because it is right next door to two schools. I have no problem with them saying this premises is totally unsuitable because it interconnects with a youth club or something like that and therefore is unsuitable. I have no problem with them saying it is insufficiently secure or there are not sufficient means of excluding 17-year-olds or whatever from going into these premises. All of that can exist but one extra ingredient can be added, which is the people and the area, through their local authority representatives, have said that this is an area in which the power to run these kind of premises should or should not be permitted.

As a matter of logic, we cannot simply say that it has been patchy. It was not patchy when the UDC in Enniscorthy said no. There were no casinos there. It was not patchy when all of the places closed down in Dublin. What has changed is that money is talking and it is big money that is talking. Other people have mentioned private clubs. They are a facade for criminality because they do not operate under this Act, which only permits gaming among ordinary people participating in games where all the people's chances of winning, including the banker as is actually provided in the Act, are equal. I know that in this city, gambling clubs were established pretending to be private members' clubs where, apart from the working-class people who are hammered and exploited in the casinos that have grown up, people with large wodges of money have ruined themselves at poker tables while addicted to playing poker with people who are twice as clever as they are.

I am saying this to the Minister of State because I do not want to name a single person but I do know that very wealthy people established those clubs and very wealthy people seem to have persuaded the Garda authorities not to exercise their powers under this Act so that if you go into some of them you will find roulette tables where any person going in does not have the chance of becoming the banker. They are running blackjack tables where you cannot go up and say I would like to run the table for the next half hour if you do not mind. They are profit-making enterprises by people who have ruthlessly run these places.

Sport has been contaminated by this gambling culture; it really has been. I have come across cases where people are playing lower division soccer who are feeding gambling habits, throwing games and betting on who will get the first goal in fairly basic Irish football. I recall that in my own profession as a barrister, one colleague was absolutely ruined by gambling. He was thrown out of his profession. I have seen solicitors' firms where one partner has brought the whole firm down with a crash, leaving the whole family devastated by gambling. I fully accept that the Minister of State's answer to a lot of what I am saying will be that is happening anyway and we have to control it. I accept that and I accept the criticisms of Members of this House levelled at those who have tried to water down this legislation and to liberalise further the gambling that is envisaged in this by pretending the horse racing industry could collapse if we do not control it.

When you look at what is happening in Britain and when the Minister of State tells me it is not going to happen here when money talks, money does talk. Money spoke for the private members' card clubs in Dublin. Money spoke that the law was never enforced in relation to them. I am deeply pessimistic, I have to say. I am really pessimistic that a valuable opportunity is being lost here to protect vulnerable people. The most vulnerable are those at the bottom of the social and economic ladder, who are most vulnerable to the amusement hall or casino culture. The wealthy are not in there. The middle classes are rarely in there-----