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Select Committee on Justice and Equality: Estimates for Public Services 2024
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána (Supplementary)
Vote 21 - Prisons (Supplementary)
Vote 22 - Courts Service (Supplementary)
Vote 24 - Justice (Supplementary) (17 Oct 2024)

Helen McEntee: Good afternoon, Chair. I thank members for making time to consider these Supplementary Estimates. I am joined from the Department by Ms Yvonne Furey, assistant secretary, Ms Niamh Merrigan, assistant principal, and Mr. Aonghus O'Connor, principal officer. On Vote 20, budget 2024 reflects the commitment of the Government to ensuring our communities are safe and that An Garda...

Select Committee on Justice and Equality: Estimates for Public Services 2024
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána (Supplementary)
Vote 21 - Prisons (Supplementary)
Vote 22 - Courts Service (Supplementary)
Vote 24 - Justice (Supplementary) (17 Oct 2024)

Helen McEntee: It is due to a recruitment competition. It is a matter of going through the process working with the Public Appointments Service. It is likely it will be next year before we have some of our first new recruits. The competition resulted in 1,800 people applying to become members of the Garda Reserve. We are still going through that recruitment process with the 1,800 applicants.

Select Committee on Justice and Equality: Estimates for Public Services 2024
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána (Supplementary)
Vote 21 - Prisons (Supplementary)
Vote 22 - Courts Service (Supplementary)
Vote 24 - Justice (Supplementary) (17 Oct 2024)

Helen McEntee: No one has been recruited yet. It was hoped that it would happen by the end of the year, but it will most likely be early next year.

Select Committee on Justice and Equality: Estimates for Public Services 2024
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána (Supplementary)
Vote 21 - Prisons (Supplementary)
Vote 22 - Courts Service (Supplementary)
Vote 24 - Justice (Supplementary) (17 Oct 2024)

Helen McEntee: I will have to come back to the Deputy with the exact figure in Dublin. I do not have that currently. We have set a target of having an additional 2,000 members of the Garda Reserve by 2026.

Select Committee on Justice and Equality: Estimates for Public Services 2024
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána (Supplementary)
Vote 21 - Prisons (Supplementary)
Vote 22 - Courts Service (Supplementary)
Vote 24 - Justice (Supplementary) (17 Oct 2024)

Helen McEntee: I am happy that the reserve competition was opened for the first time in approximately seven years. I am satisfied there was significant interest in the competition. Obviously, I want to see our newer members come through as quickly as possible.

Select Committee on Justice and Equality: Estimates for Public Services 2024
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána (Supplementary)
Vote 21 - Prisons (Supplementary)
Vote 22 - Courts Service (Supplementary)
Vote 24 - Justice (Supplementary) (17 Oct 2024)

Helen McEntee: The competition is ongoing. While I would have liked to have seen it completed by the end of the year, the process is progressing well. I hope to see new Garda Reserve recruits fully through the system by early next year and out on the beat supporting our gardaí.

Select Committee on Justice and Equality: Estimates for Public Services 2024
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána (Supplementary)
Vote 21 - Prisons (Supplementary)
Vote 22 - Courts Service (Supplementary)
Vote 24 - Justice (Supplementary) (17 Oct 2024)

Helen McEntee: To answer the initial question about the reason for the underspend this year, we had funded for the higher end of that target. There were 746 trainees last year. Obviously, we do not have the full and final number for this year. While I appreciate we have not reached the higher end of our target, a number of things have been done to ensure we can increase Garda numbers, not just this year...

Select Committee on Justice and Equality: Estimates for Public Services 2024
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána (Supplementary)
Vote 21 - Prisons (Supplementary)
Vote 22 - Courts Service (Supplementary)
Vote 24 - Justice (Supplementary) (17 Oct 2024)

Helen McEntee: Yes. While I would like it to be higher, I am happy that last year we had six times more people than we had in the previous year. Obviously, we want that to continue.

Select Committee on Justice and Equality: Estimates for Public Services 2024
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána (Supplementary)
Vote 21 - Prisons (Supplementary)
Vote 22 - Courts Service (Supplementary)
Vote 24 - Justice (Supplementary) (17 Oct 2024)

Helen McEntee: Yes, six times more compared with the previous year in which we started recruitment post-Covid. We are now essentially back to where we were pre-Covid. We need to go higher. We need to hire 1,000 Gardaí per year to be able to respond to and deal with the challenges we have with retention and retirements. While we do not have the final figures for resignations or retirements this...

Select Committee on Justice and Equality: Estimates for Public Services 2024
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána (Supplementary)
Vote 21 - Prisons (Supplementary)
Vote 22 - Courts Service (Supplementary)
Vote 24 - Justice (Supplementary) (17 Oct 2024)

Helen McEntee: The group has not given its first initial report. It is due in the next week.

Select Committee on Justice and Equality: Estimates for Public Services 2024
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána (Supplementary)
Vote 21 - Prisons (Supplementary)
Vote 22 - Courts Service (Supplementary)
Vote 24 - Justice (Supplementary) (17 Oct 2024)

Helen McEntee: It is looking at all of the options, to be honest.

Select Committee on Justice and Equality: Estimates for Public Services 2024
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána (Supplementary)
Vote 21 - Prisons (Supplementary)
Vote 22 - Courts Service (Supplementary)
Vote 24 - Justice (Supplementary) (17 Oct 2024)

Helen McEntee: Potentially, yes. Nothing is off the table.

Select Committee on Justice and Equality: Estimates for Public Services 2024
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána (Supplementary)
Vote 21 - Prisons (Supplementary)
Vote 22 - Courts Service (Supplementary)
Vote 24 - Justice (Supplementary) (17 Oct 2024)

Helen McEntee: We need to look at all options. I hope that with the increase in the retirement age, those figures may vary slightly. At the same time, we know what the enormous recruitment in the early 1990s will mean for the coming years. We need to ensure that at the other end, we increase the numbers going into the organisation. The work that has been done to date has got us to this point. To start...

Select Committee on Justice and Equality: Estimates for Public Services 2024
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána (Supplementary)
Vote 21 - Prisons (Supplementary)
Vote 22 - Courts Service (Supplementary)
Vote 24 - Justice (Supplementary) (17 Oct 2024)

Helen McEntee: I did not. Gardaí can apply for other jobs if they retire and decide to continue working in other areas. I know that some of them work in different elements of the justice system. If somebody retires-----

Select Committee on Justice and Equality: Estimates for Public Services 2024
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána (Supplementary)
Vote 21 - Prisons (Supplementary)
Vote 22 - Courts Service (Supplementary)
Vote 24 - Justice (Supplementary) (17 Oct 2024)

Helen McEntee: I do not think anything should be off the table but it is not something that has been proposed. It is not something that has been-----

Select Committee on Justice and Equality: Estimates for Public Services 2024
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána (Supplementary)
Vote 21 - Prisons (Supplementary)
Vote 22 - Courts Service (Supplementary)
Vote 24 - Justice (Supplementary) (17 Oct 2024)

Helen McEntee: -----put forward. That is not to say that the committee I have established is solely focused on recruitment. It is also focused on retention so if what the Deputy has proposed were to come up, it would be considered. It has not yet been put forward as an option.

Select Committee on Justice and Equality: Estimates for Public Services 2024
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána (Supplementary)
Vote 21 - Prisons (Supplementary)
Vote 22 - Courts Service (Supplementary)
Vote 24 - Justice (Supplementary) (17 Oct 2024)

Helen McEntee: I will not have that information until the committee reports to me.

Select Committee on Justice and Equality: Estimates for Public Services 2024
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána (Supplementary)
Vote 21 - Prisons (Supplementary)
Vote 22 - Courts Service (Supplementary)
Vote 24 - Justice (Supplementary) (17 Oct 2024)

Helen McEntee: The committee has not reported yet.

Select Committee on Justice and Equality: Estimates for Public Services 2024
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána (Supplementary)
Vote 21 - Prisons (Supplementary)
Vote 22 - Courts Service (Supplementary)
Vote 24 - Justice (Supplementary) (17 Oct 2024)

Helen McEntee: I have not been made aware of that. However, I know that more people have been trained in public order duty overall. I do not have the exact figure but I can get it. There has been a significant increase in the number of members who are trained for public order and that would include the driving of vehicles. I can get a breakdown for the Deputy.

Select Committee on Justice and Equality: Estimates for Public Services 2024
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána (Supplementary)
Vote 21 - Prisons (Supplementary)
Vote 22 - Courts Service (Supplementary)
Vote 24 - Justice (Supplementary) (17 Oct 2024)

Helen McEntee: I absolutely do. The 100 vehicles are not all public order vans. They are a mixture of vehicles for the different fleets. There is funding for training in this year's budget. I expect it to include driver training as well as firearms and any other type of training that is required. There has been a significant increase in the number of gardaí who are trained for public order but I...