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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Defective Concrete Blocks: Discussion (1 May 2024)

Pearse Doherty: One of the reasons we asked for this hearing was the excellent work the redress focus groups have done, and I really appreciate the fact that all the groups before us are interacting with them on this. The scheme does not work for so many people, but today we are not really going into that level of detail. We are talking about the existing scheme and the fact that some people are trying to...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Defective Concrete Blocks: Discussion (1 May 2024)

Pearse Doherty: In the case of a house in Buncrana, say, where it is an outer leaf remediation option, they will certify that the replacement of the outer leaf is now structurally sound. The question then is whether the bank will allow somebody to come along, let us say Bernard, and purchase that house knowing that the property has not been deemed structurally sound. What has been deemed structurally sound...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Defective Concrete Blocks: Discussion (1 May 2024)

Pearse Doherty: That is fair enough. That is very clear. It is where there is no certification from the engineers. However, what is being said is the engineers will provide the certification but only for the remediated works. In other words, they will provide a certification for the outer leaf, but not the house. If the Leas-Chathaoirleach wants to buy that house, the question is whether he go to the...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Defective Concrete Blocks: Discussion (1 May 2024)

Pearse Doherty: This is what I am hearing back home. They want this really simplified. I am outlining a scenario here where Engineers Ireland has certified the work. The remediation work was on outer leaf because that was all that was appropriate, although maybe another engineer was overruled on that. It was on the outer leaf, the certification is there but it is not a certification for the entire...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Defective Concrete Blocks: Discussion (1 May 2024)

Pearse Doherty: That is fine. When the bank is informed that there is deleterious material but it is not showing signs in the inner leaf, the fact there is certification solely for the outer leaf allows the banks to fully mortgage that property, that is, to fully provide a loan for that property. Is that what the BPFI is saying?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Defective Concrete Blocks: Discussion (1 May 2024)

Pearse Doherty: That is something the banks are not doing at the moment. Is it what Ms Byrne is suggesting?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Defective Concrete Blocks: Discussion (1 May 2024)

Pearse Doherty: Okay.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Defective Concrete Blocks: Discussion (1 May 2024)

Pearse Doherty: We have scenarios at present where people are looking for loans from some of the BPFI's members in the banks. It is option 1, which is full demolition and rebuilding and it is stated very clearly by one of the main street lenders that people need to rip out the foundation as well. That is not part of the scheme, but at least one bank is demanding that in these circumstances and I do not...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Defective Concrete Blocks: Discussion (1 May 2024)

Pearse Doherty: Okay.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Defective Concrete Blocks: Discussion (1 May 2024)

Pearse Doherty: For a remediated house, Ms Byrne is making it clear to this committee the banks do not require certification on the entire property. The banks, therefore, will be willing to lend to a person to purchase an affected house that still has deleterious materials in the foundations or inner blocks provided the outer leaf was replaced and certified. She is saying the BPFI's members are happy to...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Defective Concrete Blocks: Discussion (1 May 2024)

Pearse Doherty: I have a question for her on the insurance aspect of this. At present, some homeowners cannot get their homes insured despite the fact deleterious material is not a peril under the insurance, so they would not be able to claim anyway. Maybe Ms Murdock can explain why that is and why insurance companies are now only providing contents-only insurance for some affected houses. In the context...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Defective Concrete Blocks: Discussion (1 May 2024)

Pearse Doherty: Is Ms Murdock aware of any of her members not renewing or removing insurance from affected properties currently that are not remediated?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Defective Concrete Blocks: Discussion (1 May 2024)

Pearse Doherty: It has not then been brought to Ms Murdock's attention that impacted households are in some cases being provided with contents-only insurance and cannot get their homes insured because there is defective material present.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Defective Concrete Blocks: Discussion (1 May 2024)

Pearse Doherty: All right, but regarding the phrase "a good state of repair", has Ms Murdock been in one of these houses?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Defective Concrete Blocks: Discussion (1 May 2024)

Pearse Doherty: It might be helpful to the committee, if it is possible, for Insurance Ireland to contact its members to ask what happens when, on renewal or the taking out of a new policy, the insurance company is informed there is deleterious material in the blocks. What is the impact then in terms of insurance and has insurance not been provided on that basis? Finally, I will turn to the BPFI. I spoke...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Defective Concrete Blocks: Discussion (1 May 2024)

Pearse Doherty: With respect, banks can do that for those who are eligible. I made the point that this is not everybody. There are people going to the financial institutions now. The people who are rebuilding at the moment and who are having to put their hands in their pocket or to beg, borrow or steal the €70,000 to €80,000 are going to the financial institutions but the interest rates are...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Defective Concrete Blocks: Discussion (1 May 2024)

Pearse Doherty: I appreciate that. Thanks.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Defective Concrete Blocks: Discussion (1 May 2024)

Pearse Doherty: Given everything Ms Murdock has said and the fact that deleterious material is not a peril that ever was covered by insurance, should there be any issue with an affected home being denied home insurance on that basis? Obviously it should not.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Defective Concrete Blocks: Discussion (1 May 2024)

Pearse Doherty: That is an hour and ten minutes away. Has the Leas-Chathaoirleach forgotten to set his watch?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Defective Concrete Blocks: Discussion (1 May 2024)

Pearse Doherty: Okay. Is it fair to say that the expectation is that the standard will change?

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