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Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Future Ireland Fund and Infrastructure, Climate and Nature Fund Bill 2024: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 May 2024)

Pearse Doherty: That has been legislated for. The Minister queried my point on having a modest surplus, an example of which I gave as €1 billion, and why would the Government not put money into the fund. Is it the Minister's assessment that if there was a general Government balance of €1 billion the Government would still have to put €6.5 billion into the fund or, indeed, almost half...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Future Ireland Fund and Infrastructure, Climate and Nature Fund Bill 2024: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 May 2024)

Pearse Doherty: So even if the fiscal position is improving does the Minister believe that the section allows for the Minister to make that assessment?

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Future Ireland Fund and Infrastructure, Climate and Nature Fund Bill 2024: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 May 2024)

Pearse Doherty: Okay.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Future Ireland Fund and Infrastructure, Climate and Nature Fund Bill 2024: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 May 2024)

Pearse Doherty: The Minister has addressed some of the issues concerning the draw down of funding in response to amendments tabled by Deputy Nash. The Bill does not specify what use would be made of the transfers from the fund from 2041 onwards. Is there a reason for that? We have discussed some of the demographic challenges in terms of ageing, particularly pensions and health ageing costs. I ask the...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Future Ireland Fund and Infrastructure, Climate and Nature Fund Bill 2024: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 May 2024)

Pearse Doherty: Yes. What is the annual rate of return those numbers are based on? Is it 5%?

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Future Ireland Fund and Infrastructure, Climate and Nature Fund Bill 2024: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 May 2024)

Pearse Doherty: Okay. I thank the Minister.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Future Ireland Fund and Infrastructure, Climate and Nature Fund Bill 2024: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 May 2024)

Pearse Doherty: I move amendment No. 8: In page 12, between lines 16 and 17, to insert the following: “ “designated housing project” has the meaning assigned to it by section 21;”. This amendment moves us on to the infrastructure, climate and nature fund, as opposed to the future Ireland fund. "Infrastructure, climate and nature fund" is a nice name, but the only drawdowns...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Future Ireland Fund and Infrastructure, Climate and Nature Fund Bill 2024: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 May 2024)

Pearse Doherty: I am sorry, but I did not get what the Minister was saying at the end. The amendments before us do not alter the total amount that can be drawn down, that is, the cumulative amount of €3.15 billion by 2030. Instead of just having designated environmental projects, I also include designated housing projects and therefore, within the portion of that fund from 2026 on, it could be used...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Future Ireland Fund and Infrastructure, Climate and Nature Fund Bill 2024: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 May 2024)

Pearse Doherty: The Minister mentioned "by any yardstick". No one is taking away that there are more houses being built than in previous years, but let us look at other yardsticks. Homelessness, house prices and rents have increased every year since the Minister has been in government. Those are other yardsticks to measure whether the collective efforts of Government are actually working. This is...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Future Ireland Fund and Infrastructure, Climate and Nature Fund Bill 2024: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 May 2024)

Pearse Doherty: I move amendment No. 9: In page 12, line 26, to delete “designated environmental projects” and substitute “designated environmental projects or designated housing projects”.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Future Ireland Fund and Infrastructure, Climate and Nature Fund Bill 2024: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 May 2024)

Pearse Doherty: In the rest of this legislation, in the main, many of these sections are just a repeat of the sections we have had before. I wish to record that my observations in respect of many of these sections are similar to those in respect of earlier sections. However, I do not want to repeat them because they are cut and paste. Is that okay? I just wanted to put that on record.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Future Ireland Fund and Infrastructure, Climate and Nature Fund Bill 2024: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 May 2024)

Pearse Doherty: This is a section where there is a bit of difference from the previous one in respect of the future Ireland fund. To make sure I am reading this correctly, can I clarify that this section provides that where there is or is likely to be a significant deterioration in the economic or fiscal position of the State, not more than 25% of the net asset value of the fund can be drawn down to support...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Future Ireland Fund and Infrastructure, Climate and Nature Fund Bill 2024: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 May 2024)

Pearse Doherty: I move amendment No. 13: In page 16, between lines 24 and 25, to insert the following: “Designated housing projects 21. The Minister for Housing, Local Government and Heritage may designate in writing a housing project (in this Part referred to as a “designated housing project”) where he or she is satisfied that the project contributes directly or indirectly, or is...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Future Ireland Fund and Infrastructure, Climate and Nature Fund Bill 2024: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 May 2024)

Pearse Doherty: I move amendment No. 15: In page 19, between lines 15 and 16, to insert the following: “(b) housing and infrastructure deficits,”.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Future Ireland Fund and Infrastructure, Climate and Nature Fund Bill 2024: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 May 2024)

Pearse Doherty: This is the same as previous assessments. I do not want to talk about the fiscal council and the valuable work it does but, after the passage of this Bill, what legal weight is on the recommendation of IFAC? I presume the Minister just has to consider it and that after that he or she can just put it up on a shelf if he or she wishes or can take the recommendation and implement it or tweak...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Future Ireland Fund and Infrastructure, Climate and Nature Fund Bill 2024: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 May 2024)

Pearse Doherty: I move amendment No. 16: In page 20, between lines 13 and 14, to insert the following: “(c) housing and infrastructure deficits in relation to such years as the Minister considers appropriate,”.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Future Ireland Fund and Infrastructure, Climate and Nature Fund Bill 2024: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 May 2024)

Pearse Doherty: I do not agree with the way in which sections 25 and 26 have been drafted, the reason being the considerations that have been stipulated, again by the Irish Fiscal Advisory Council. All you have to do is have regard to them. Again, it fails to deal with, for example, the issue of infrastructure or housing deficits in determining its consideration. I just wanted to make that point as to why...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Future Ireland Fund and Infrastructure, Climate and Nature Fund Bill 2024: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 May 2024)

Pearse Doherty: May I make a point? It may not be tied to this section, but we are trying to get through this. All the reports being made available, including the report from IFAC and the report from the NTMA, will be published. Is that correct? Will every report be published? In terms of the timing, the IFAC report happens on a date in September, from memory. It is just before the budget cycle. Will...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Future Ireland Fund and Infrastructure, Climate and Nature Fund Bill 2024: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 May 2024)

Pearse Doherty: The reason I have concern with this is that heretofore IFAC has published all of its stuff; it is not given to Government. This legislation strays from that, where it provides it to Government. It should be simultaneously published, in my view. IFAC is independent.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Future Ireland Fund and Infrastructure, Climate and Nature Fund Bill 2024: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 May 2024)

Pearse Doherty: On section 31, can we get the follow-up note from the Department on the justification of the 15% investment in terms of maximum aggregate turnover of a particular investment in fossil fuel undertakings? We would still be able to make investments that had less than 15%. I know it stems from previous legislation but I would appreciate if we could get the note for consideration before Report Stage.

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