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Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2024
Vote 1 - President's Establishment (Revised)
Vote 2 - Department of the Taoiseach (Revised)
Vote 3 - Office of the Attorney General (Revised)
Vote 5 - Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions (Revised)
Vote 6 - Chief State Solicitor's Office (Revised)
(24 Apr 2024)

Pearse Doherty: In respect of the Taoiseach's awareness of the processes for freedom of information, FOI, within his Department, he will obviously be familiar with them given he has been a Minister for the past eight years. I assume that, like all of us, he is contacted not just by email anymore but also by text messages, WhatsApp and so on, and that some of that would fall into Government business. Is...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2024
Vote 1 - President's Establishment (Revised)
Vote 2 - Department of the Taoiseach (Revised)
Vote 3 - Office of the Attorney General (Revised)
Vote 5 - Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions (Revised)
Vote 6 - Chief State Solicitor's Office (Revised)
(24 Apr 2024)

Pearse Doherty: I presume people do contact the Taoiseach by WhatsApp and text message, including officials, or is he saying his officials contact him only by email?

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2024
Vote 1 - President's Establishment (Revised)
Vote 2 - Department of the Taoiseach (Revised)
Vote 3 - Office of the Attorney General (Revised)
Vote 5 - Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions (Revised)
Vote 6 - Chief State Solicitor's Office (Revised)
(24 Apr 2024)

Pearse Doherty: The Taoiseach is a Minister. He is used to officials contacting him by text message and to members of the public perhaps having his details from different arrangements or engagements, maybe even in his life previous to this, where they might send a WhatsApp message looking to meet him or asking for a discussion.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2024
Vote 1 - President's Establishment (Revised)
Vote 2 - Department of the Taoiseach (Revised)
Vote 3 - Office of the Attorney General (Revised)
Vote 5 - Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions (Revised)
Vote 6 - Chief State Solicitor's Office (Revised)
(24 Apr 2024)

Pearse Doherty: Has it been standard practice for the Taoiseach to create records of his text messages and communications through social media apps?

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2024
Vote 1 - President's Establishment (Revised)
Vote 2 - Department of the Taoiseach (Revised)
Vote 3 - Office of the Attorney General (Revised)
Vote 5 - Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions (Revised)
Vote 6 - Chief State Solicitor's Office (Revised)
(24 Apr 2024)

Pearse Doherty: I refer to text messages, WhatsApp communications and so on.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2024
Vote 1 - President's Establishment (Revised)
Vote 2 - Department of the Taoiseach (Revised)
Vote 3 - Office of the Attorney General (Revised)
Vote 5 - Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions (Revised)
Vote 6 - Chief State Solicitor's Office (Revised)
(24 Apr 2024)

Pearse Doherty: Has the Taoiseach sent them all to the Department?

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2024
Vote 1 - President's Establishment (Revised)
Vote 2 - Department of the Taoiseach (Revised)
Vote 3 - Office of the Attorney General (Revised)
Vote 5 - Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions (Revised)
Vote 6 - Chief State Solicitor's Office (Revised)
(24 Apr 2024)

Pearse Doherty: Yes, or in the Taoiseach's previous role.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2024
Vote 1 - President's Establishment (Revised)
Vote 2 - Department of the Taoiseach (Revised)
Vote 3 - Office of the Attorney General (Revised)
Vote 5 - Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions (Revised)
Vote 6 - Chief State Solicitor's Office (Revised)
(24 Apr 2024)

Pearse Doherty: Is it the Taoiseach's position that it is only when communications have been requested that he will forward them to the Department?

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2024
Vote 1 - President's Establishment (Revised)
Vote 2 - Department of the Taoiseach (Revised)
Vote 3 - Office of the Attorney General (Revised)
Vote 5 - Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions (Revised)
Vote 6 - Chief State Solicitor's Office (Revised)
(24 Apr 2024)

Pearse Doherty: That is not the case. The reason I raise this is that it falls under the Taoiseach’s Department, but also that the previous Taoiseach deleted records in the past from WhatsApp and, therefore, they were outside the reach of FOI. Deleting a FOI document or record, whether it is a text message or on WhatsApp, is an offence if it falls into that category of communication. I might just...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2024
Vote 1 - President's Establishment (Revised)
Vote 2 - Department of the Taoiseach (Revised)
Vote 3 - Office of the Attorney General (Revised)
Vote 5 - Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions (Revised)
Vote 6 - Chief State Solicitor's Office (Revised)
(24 Apr 2024)

Pearse Doherty: The Taoiseach feels he does not have to send on those documents.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2024
Vote 1 - President's Establishment (Revised)
Vote 2 - Department of the Taoiseach (Revised)
Vote 3 - Office of the Attorney General (Revised)
Vote 5 - Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions (Revised)
Vote 6 - Chief State Solicitor's Office (Revised)
(24 Apr 2024)

Pearse Doherty: No, I referred to any "official government business issued or received through a private email account". A private email account could be accessed through a Government phone or, indeed, "[an]other private messaging service"-----

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2024
Vote 1 - President's Establishment (Revised)
Vote 2 - Department of the Taoiseach (Revised)
Vote 3 - Office of the Attorney General (Revised)
Vote 5 - Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions (Revised)
Vote 6 - Chief State Solicitor's Office (Revised)
(24 Apr 2024)

Pearse Doherty: A private messaging service is a text message or WhatsApp message that the Taoiseach would receive on his Government phone, and the circular states that must be forwarded as soon as is practicable. It is not a case of when it has been asked for.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2024
Vote 1 - President's Establishment (Revised)
Vote 2 - Department of the Taoiseach (Revised)
Vote 3 - Office of the Attorney General (Revised)
Vote 5 - Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions (Revised)
Vote 6 - Chief State Solicitor's Office (Revised)
(24 Apr 2024)

Pearse Doherty: The Taoiseach has not done that so far, however.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2024
Vote 1 - President's Establishment (Revised)
Vote 2 - Department of the Taoiseach (Revised)
Vote 3 - Office of the Attorney General (Revised)
Vote 5 - Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions (Revised)
Vote 6 - Chief State Solicitor's Office (Revised)
(24 Apr 2024)

Pearse Doherty: I refer also to the Taoiseach's previous roles as Minister.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2024
Vote 1 - President's Establishment (Revised)
Vote 2 - Department of the Taoiseach (Revised)
Vote 3 - Office of the Attorney General (Revised)
Vote 5 - Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions (Revised)
Vote 6 - Chief State Solicitor's Office (Revised)
(24 Apr 2024)

Pearse Doherty: No, I just want to know how-----

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2024
Vote 1 - President's Establishment (Revised)
Vote 2 - Department of the Taoiseach (Revised)
Vote 3 - Office of the Attorney General (Revised)
Vote 5 - Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions (Revised)
Vote 6 - Chief State Solicitor's Office (Revised)
(24 Apr 2024)

Pearse Doherty: It is just that every time an FOI request is made, it appears that nobody communicates with Ministers by text message or WhatsApp-----

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2024
Vote 1 - President's Establishment (Revised)
Vote 2 - Department of the Taoiseach (Revised)
Vote 3 - Office of the Attorney General (Revised)
Vote 5 - Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions (Revised)
Vote 6 - Chief State Solicitor's Office (Revised)
(24 Apr 2024)

Pearse Doherty: Indeed, on the other side, in the case of Leo Varadkar, where there was evidence the communication had happened, we found that the messages had been deleted.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2024
Vote 1 - President's Establishment (Revised)
Vote 2 - Department of the Taoiseach (Revised)
Vote 3 - Office of the Attorney General (Revised)
Vote 5 - Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions (Revised)
Vote 6 - Chief State Solicitor's Office (Revised)
(24 Apr 2024)

Pearse Doherty: Okay. I appreciate that regarding the obligation to create the record in the first instance. In regard to the Taoiseach's own set-up, he has appointed a number of special advisers so far and I think all of them come from either a journalism or PR background. They are not.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2024
Vote 1 - President's Establishment (Revised)
Vote 2 - Department of the Taoiseach (Revised)
Vote 3 - Office of the Attorney General (Revised)
Vote 5 - Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions (Revised)
Vote 6 - Chief State Solicitor's Office (Revised)
(24 Apr 2024)

Pearse Doherty: Which one does not have a public relations, PR, background or a journalism background, of the five who have been pointed so far?

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2024
Vote 1 - President's Establishment (Revised)
Vote 2 - Department of the Taoiseach (Revised)
Vote 3 - Office of the Attorney General (Revised)
Vote 5 - Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions (Revised)
Vote 6 - Chief State Solicitor's Office (Revised)
(24 Apr 2024)

Pearse Doherty: I was aware that five were appointed by the Taoiseach. All of those five were from a background of either journalism or PR. However, will the Taoiseach give us the detail as to the number of special advisers he has and also the plans for the number of special advisers he plans to have? I am very conscious he is new in the job so there may be changes afoot.

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