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Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (15 Jul 2015)

Susan O'Keeffe: Mr. McCarthy raised a point about the solvency in the draft and I wonder if you could just seek a further clarification because it was raised as one of the drafts.

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (15 Jul 2015)

Susan O'Keeffe: Thank you. Mr. Sheehy said in his evidence that the expression about solvency, about the banks being all solvent, that that would be in the final draft and it was taken out. I am just wondering what your recollection of that particular part of the draft was?

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (15 Jul 2015)

Susan O'Keeffe: So it came out.

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (15 Jul 2015)

Susan O'Keeffe: Thank you, Chair. Mr. McCarthy, on page ... sorry, page 4 of your own statement, you say, "The European Commission and the ECB favoured a front loading of adjustment within an overall adjustment of at least €15bn by 2014." Do you recall what rationale they provided for that kind of adjustment in such a short period of time? Do you also recall what the Irish view was and what the IMF...

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (15 Jul 2015)

Susan O'Keeffe: Okay. If I could take you to 2007, its a document DOF01962. Now, I appreciate this would have been a Department of Finance document, I'm just wondering whether you would have been briefed at that point. This is November 2007, Mr. Ahern would have been Taoiseach, about the funding availability for Irish banks being tight and if the present market conditions persist in 2008, there's an...

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (15 Jul 2015)

Susan O'Keeffe: Okay. And then again in January, the scoping paper that we've heard about, the examining the legal framework for any crisis management operations taking place. Again, this was a Department of Finance document but would you have been notified that that sort of work was in preparation and that a scoping document had been drawn up? When I say you, now, I mean you and the Taoiseach.

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (15 Jul 2015)

Susan O'Keeffe: Okay, but it wasn't something ... you weren't unaware, you weren't in the dark, the Taoiseach wasn't in the dark about that progress?

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (15 Jul 2015)

Susan O'Keeffe: Okay. So DOF03372, this was part of the briefing document that was given to Mr. Lenihan as he came in as Minister for Finance, this was the document which was marked highly confidential and relates to Seán Quinn and the Quinn Group. Now again, I'm asking whether or not this information here, relating to the Quinn Group, would have been known by the Taoiseach? I appreciate now that he...

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (15 Jul 2015)

Susan O'Keeffe: Okay. So, in ... Mr. Cowen has given evidence that he would have been notified some time in March about the contracts for difference. So, you're saying you were not aware? You, as Mr. McCarthy, were not aware and you're not aware whether Mr. Ahern was aware?

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (15 Jul 2015)

Susan O'Keeffe: Okay. So when Mr. Cowen then came in as Taoiseach, in May, would you then have become aware or do you recall when you did become aware if, indeed, you did at all, become aware?

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (15 Jul 2015)

Susan O'Keeffe: Okay.

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (15 Jul 2015)

Susan O'Keeffe: Okay. So the whole question surrounding the Financial Regulator and what he knew in relation to what was going on in the Quinn Group, you knew nothing about that? Okay. Did it come up, the whole issue raised, as you say it became public knowledge at a later point, did it form part of any of the discussions the night of the guarantee?

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (15 Jul 2015)

Susan O'Keeffe: Okay. You will be aware I think of DOF03290, this would be the Indecon information that Mr. Alan Gray sent to Mr. Cardiff and again I know he ... I think he sent it to a couple of other people, I'm wondering whether you'd had sight of it before it ... at that time, and whether the Taoiseach might have had ... the Taoiseach, Mr. Cowen, might have had sight of it at the time?

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (15 Jul 2015)

Susan O'Keeffe: Would Mr. Gray ever have consulted with you directly, for example, as Secretary General, when he was preparing that document?

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (15 Jul 2015)

Susan O'Keeffe: No. On the night of the guarantee, when Mr. Cowen has given in evidence that he spoke with Mr. Gray on the telephone that night, were you present when that call took place?

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (15 Jul 2015)

Susan O'Keeffe: Were you present when Mr. Lenihan and Mr. Cowen withdrew to have a conversation? They withdrew from the meeting. Were you part of that conversation?

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (15 Jul 2015)

Susan O'Keeffe: You weren't. Okay. On your ... in your own book of documentation, that's DOT 00454, this is a note that was given by Joe Lennon to the Taoiseach, and this refers to, "AIB and Bank of Ireland are requesting an urgent meeting with yourself [meaning the Taoiseach] and the Minister for Finance this evening." First of all, this is hand dated 13/09/08. Is that, in your view, simply an error?...

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (15 Jul 2015)

Susan O'Keeffe: Okay. Now, you see that in the note it says, "BOI say they lost €2 billion in wholesale deposits today. AIB are having difficulty in getting cash in the overnight money market." Now, on page 11 of his testimony, Mr. Goggin said ... of Bank of Ireland, "The primary reason we were there was because of the impending Anglo default." So, in this note here, taken by Mr. Lennon and passed-----

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (15 Jul 2015)

Susan O'Keeffe: I'm sorry, I just had that reference there.

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (15 Jul 2015)

Susan O'Keeffe: -----passed to the Taoiseach, obviously they were saying this. So did this matter of the Bank of Ireland and its wholesale deposits and AIB having difficulty, would that form part of the meeting then?

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