Results 361-380 of 1,054,726 for in 'Dáil debates' OR (speaker:Máiría Cahill OR speaker:Michael Creed OR speaker:John Paul Phelan OR speaker:Brendan Smith OR speaker:Mattie McGrath OR speaker:Aengus Ó Snodaigh OR speaker:Pearse Doherty) in 'Committee meetings'

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: General Scheme of the Conclusion of IBRC Special Liquidation and Dissolution of NAMA Bill: Department of Finance (18 Sep 2024)

Pearse Doherty: When Mr. Carville says “expeditiously”, does that give comfort to NAMA in relation to fire sales, when it sold property that turned out to incur multiple millions of euro in losses, because the developers who bought those properties flipped them for hundreds of millions of euro shortly afterwards? Does that word “expeditiously” trump value for money or the...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: General Scheme of the Conclusion of IBRC Special Liquidation and Dissolution of NAMA Bill: Department of Finance (18 Sep 2024)

Pearse Doherty: I will ask the original question again. Was it not NAMA’s objective to recover as much of the €74 billion in loans it had on its books at the point in the end of 2021? Was that not the objective?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: General Scheme of the Conclusion of IBRC Special Liquidation and Dissolution of NAMA Bill: Department of Finance (18 Sep 2024)

Pearse Doherty: Therefore, it was to recover as much of the €74 billion in loans it had on its books at that point in time. Is that not a fair assumption of what NAMA was required to do?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: General Scheme of the Conclusion of IBRC Special Liquidation and Dissolution of NAMA Bill: Department of Finance (18 Sep 2024)

Pearse Doherty: Is Mr. Carville therefore saying that it was not NAMA’s objective to recover as much of the €74 billion loans it had on its books? Is that what he is saying? I have asked him three times and he will not say “Yes”. If you-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: General Scheme of the Conclusion of IBRC Special Liquidation and Dissolution of NAMA Bill: Department of Finance (18 Sep 2024)

Pearse Doherty: Let me just say this. I have never said in any of the questions I put to Mr. Carville four times that it was NAMA’s job to get the €74 billion back. I asked if it was not the case that it was NAMA’s job to recover as much of that €74 billion it had in the loans on its books at the end of 2011.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: General Scheme of the Conclusion of IBRC Special Liquidation and Dissolution of NAMA Bill: Department of Finance (18 Sep 2024)

Pearse Doherty: It therefore was its job to get as much of those loans back. It had €74 billion in loans. When Mr. Brendan McDonagh came before this committee and said NAMA would pursue the developers to the ends of the earth, the sentiment of what he was telling us was that it was going to try to recover as much of the €74 billion in loans that it, as an organisation, legally had. Would...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: General Scheme of the Conclusion of IBRC Special Liquidation and Dissolution of NAMA Bill: Department of Finance (18 Sep 2024)

Pearse Doherty: That was not the lens that was suggested when the Minister for Finance came to the Seanad or the Dáil. They were very open about this before this committee. The idea was not just to recover the amount of money that was paid. There were substantial haircuts. Property prices were at some of the lowest points. Deputy Murphy mentioned substantial haircuts; for Irish Nationwide the...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: General Scheme of the Conclusion of IBRC Special Liquidation and Dissolution of NAMA Bill: Department of Finance (18 Sep 2024)

Pearse Doherty: Let us do a counterfactual in relation to the assets underpinning those loans, which NAMA was asked to manage. It is in the title: National Asset - not "fire sale", "sale" or "try to find a floor in the property market" but "Management" - Agency. Property prices have increased since 2011 by 127%. I was in the Seanad at the time of the legislation and a report came out showing property...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: General Scheme of the Conclusion of IBRC Special Liquidation and Dissolution of NAMA Bill: Department of Finance (18 Sep 2024)

Pearse Doherty: You can answer it because it is a simple question.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: General Scheme of the Conclusion of IBRC Special Liquidation and Dissolution of NAMA Bill: Department of Finance (18 Sep 2024)

Pearse Doherty: Okay. Let us be clear. Mr. Carville knows the answer to this. If NAMA held on to the assets it disposed of during 2013, 2014 and 2015-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: General Scheme of the Conclusion of IBRC Special Liquidation and Dissolution of NAMA Bill: Department of Finance (18 Sep 2024)

Pearse Doherty: Let me ask the question. If Mr. Carville does not want to answer it, that is fine, but let me put it. If NAMA had held on to the assets and disposed of them today, would it have made billions of additional euro for the Irish taxpayer? Is that not a blatant fact?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: General Scheme of the Conclusion of IBRC Special Liquidation and Dissolution of NAMA Bill: Department of Finance (18 Sep 2024)

Pearse Doherty: Sorry, do you dispute the fact?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: General Scheme of the Conclusion of IBRC Special Liquidation and Dissolution of NAMA Bill: Department of Finance (18 Sep 2024)

Pearse Doherty: No, I am not.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: General Scheme of the Conclusion of IBRC Special Liquidation and Dissolution of NAMA Bill: Department of Finance (18 Sep 2024)

Pearse Doherty: NAMA sold those assets and those assets have increased in price significantly since that sale. Is that not a fact?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: General Scheme of the Conclusion of IBRC Special Liquidation and Dissolution of NAMA Bill: Department of Finance (18 Sep 2024)

Pearse Doherty: We would be having a different conversation because instead of crystallising a €40 billion loss, we would be talking about a fraction of that. I agree that it would be a very different conversation about the taxpayers' losses that were incurred not by NAMA but by Nationwide and the reckless lenders of bankers in Anglo, AIB and Bank of Ireland. That loss would have been less. That is...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: General Scheme of the Conclusion of IBRC Special Liquidation and Dissolution of NAMA Bill: Department of Finance (18 Sep 2024)

Pearse Doherty: Hang on. Come on. Let us be serious. Do not take that approach. If property prices were half the price they were in 2012 that they are today, then would it have been more beneficial to me to sell property back in 2012 when I was getting half the price compared to today? This is stuff I can talk to my 12-year-old about. What would the cost of managing the property over that ten years be...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: General Scheme of the Conclusion of IBRC Special Liquidation and Dissolution of NAMA Bill: Department of Finance (18 Sep 2024)

Pearse Doherty: Let me go onto the legislation. I was responding to a point that has been made numerous times. I am not personalising this because, as I have said numerous times, this is about the profits. All employees from NAMA will go into the NTMA. Is that correct?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: General Scheme of the Conclusion of IBRC Special Liquidation and Dissolution of NAMA Bill: Department of Finance (18 Sep 2024)

Pearse Doherty: There are senior people in NAMA because they are overseeing a large organisation and are responsible for managing a team. Will they hold their paygrade as they go into a subdivision of the NTMA?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: General Scheme of the Conclusion of IBRC Special Liquidation and Dissolution of NAMA Bill: Department of Finance (18 Sep 2024)

Pearse Doherty: Is it not a matter for this legislation, where the heads of the Bill state that in respect of all entitlements nobody will be at a loss as a result of the transfer to the NTMA? I think it might be head 19.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: General Scheme of the Conclusion of IBRC Special Liquidation and Dissolution of NAMA Bill: Department of Finance (18 Sep 2024)

Pearse Doherty: It is. That is why when Mr. Carville says this is a matter for the NTMA, it is not. It is actually a matter for this legislation. What is the pay of the most senior people in NAMA at the minute?