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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Housing, Local Government and Heritage: Peter McVerry Trust: Discussion (30 Sep 2025)

Eoin Ó Broin: Does Mr. O'Brien think the same level of investment should take place at a Department level? He had considerable experience prior to taking on this role. Does he think there should be the same level of assessment by the Department when assessing the costing gap he spoke about?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Housing, Local Government and Heritage: Peter McVerry Trust: Discussion (30 Sep 2025)

Eoin Ó Broin: Yes, but it sets the rules within which the local authorities award the contracts.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Housing, Local Government and Heritage: Peter McVerry Trust: Discussion (30 Sep 2025)

Eoin Ó Broin: I welcome the fact that Mr. Mulligan has said that going forward the approach will be a "full-cost recovery model", which is very sensible in my view. How many of the current services that the trust is contracted to provide operate under the old deficit funding model or are underfunded? Has Mr. Mulligan a sense of the scale percentage wise of the underfunding of those?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Housing, Local Government and Heritage: Peter McVerry Trust: Discussion (30 Sep 2025)

Eoin Ó Broin: -----or service level agreements?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Housing, Local Government and Heritage: Peter McVerry Trust: Discussion (30 Sep 2025)

Eoin Ó Broin: My next questions are on creditors. I refer to service providers who were not paid from the period of the crisis in 2023. Are there still outstanding creditors who have not been paid? I am not asking for individual creditors to be named. Do our guests have a sense of quantum of that and how that will be resolved, particularly as Mr. O'Brien said that a lot of the actual documentation is...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Housing, Local Government and Heritage: Peter McVerry Trust: Discussion (30 Sep 2025)

Eoin Ó Broin: Obviously I am not going to ask for any of the details of that. It would not be appropriate. It would be fair for us to ask, what is the total quantum of money that those creditors claim is owed to them?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Housing, Local Government and Heritage: Peter McVerry Trust: Discussion (30 Sep 2025)

Eoin Ó Broin: Yes, that is okay.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Housing, Local Government and Heritage: Peter McVerry Trust: Discussion (30 Sep 2025)

Eoin Ó Broin: Has everything else been resolved at this stage?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Housing, Local Government and Heritage: Peter McVerry Trust: Discussion (30 Sep 2025)

Eoin Ó Broin: No, no. I thank Mr. Mulligan for that. One of the concerns many of us have is staff retention. One of the things that many of us experienced at a constituency level in the 18 to 24 months up to the summer of 2023 was already evidence of a high turnover of staff. Some of us thought that was individual projects or services. Of course it was much more systemic. Staff recruitment and...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Housing, Local Government and Heritage: Peter McVerry Trust: Discussion (30 Sep 2025)

Eoin Ó Broin: That was a very low base last year.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Housing, Local Government and Heritage: Peter McVerry Trust: Discussion (30 Sep 2025)

Eoin Ó Broin: Yes.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Housing, Local Government and Heritage: Peter McVerry Trust: Discussion (30 Sep 2025)

Eoin Ó Broin: Does Mr. Mulligan know how many vacancies there are across the organisation either as a number or a rough percentage of the staff complement?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Housing, Local Government and Heritage: Peter McVerry Trust: Discussion (30 Sep 2025)

Eoin Ó Broin: I wish to express a concern which I am our guests are more aware of than I am. Given the very complex needs of the folks that the trust works with in respect of housing first and the very significant level of support required, a very significant level of vacancy in that service in particular would be quite a concern.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Housing, Local Government and Heritage: Peter McVerry Trust: Discussion (30 Sep 2025)

Eoin Ó Broin: Is that something the trust shares? How is the trust trying to address that in the transfer of housing first to other organisations at a later stage?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Housing, Local Government and Heritage: Peter McVerry Trust: Discussion (30 Sep 2025)

Eoin Ó Broin: I thank the witnesses.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Housing, Local Government and Heritage: Peter McVerry Trust: Discussion (30 Sep 2025)

Eoin Ó Broin: Does Mr. Mulligan have a timeline for when he hopes all 50 actions will be completed?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Housing, Local Government and Heritage: Peter McVerry Trust: Discussion (30 Sep 2025)

Eoin Ó Broin: I join my colleagues in acknowledging the enormously important work done by the Peter McVerry Trust and to pay tribute to all the staff who have had an exceptionally difficult number of years, including those staff who left and those who left who played a role in bringing all this to light. If they had not done that, we would not necessarily be here having this conversation. As a committee,...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Housing, Local Government and Heritage: Peter McVerry Trust: Discussion (30 Sep 2025)

Eoin Ó Broin: Even ones that might be pre-existing tender arrangements-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Housing, Local Government and Heritage: Peter McVerry Trust: Discussion (30 Sep 2025)

Eoin Ó Broin: I have a comment and two final questions. Our remit is very different from that of the Committee of Public Accounts, especially given its focus on the Accounting Officers and the finances. In fairness, Deputy McAuliffe has a dual role. We spent a lot of time in private session in the previous committee trying to work out our best approach to this. Our big concern is housing and homeless...

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