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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: EU Regulations and Directive on International Protection, Asylum and Migration: Discussion (23 Apr 2024)

Michael McNamara: No. The other country accepted responsibility and that it would take them back. A decision was made to transfer them and three of the 188 were transferred. Where is the problem?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: EU Regulations and Directive on International Protection, Asylum and Migration: Discussion (23 Apr 2024)

Michael McNamara: Yes, but why would the Department run out of time? It has six months.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: EU Regulations and Directive on International Protection, Asylum and Migration: Discussion (23 Apr 2024)

Michael McNamara: No, the other countries did not frustrate it. They accepted they were taking these people back so what is the problem in the Department with implementing the Dublin III regulation?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: EU Regulations and Directive on International Protection, Asylum and Migration: Discussion (23 Apr 2024)

Michael McNamara: They were.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: EU Regulations and Directive on International Protection, Asylum and Migration: Discussion (23 Apr 2024)

Michael McNamara: You cannot issue a transfer decision without another country accepting responsibility, so that was done. I will move on. The Minister says it does not work generally. Senator Ward suggested, and I would have assumed the same thing, that Ireland would be a beneficiary and we would send back more people than we accept but in 2022 we took back 15 people and transferred two. In the same...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: EU Regulations and Directive on International Protection, Asylum and Migration: Discussion (23 Apr 2024)

Michael McNamara: What will change with the new rules? If we cannot operate the existing rules, how can we operate the new rules any better?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: EU Regulations and Directive on International Protection, Asylum and Migration: Discussion (23 Apr 2024)

Michael McNamara: It is not 2,000 times bigger.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: EU Regulations and Directive on International Protection, Asylum and Migration: Discussion (23 Apr 2024)

Michael McNamara: As I said, last year there were 188 acceptances and three were transferred. I want to move on.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: EU Regulations and Directive on International Protection, Asylum and Migration: Discussion (23 Apr 2024)

Michael McNamara: These were people who were accepted and the Department managed to transfer three.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: EU Regulations and Directive on International Protection, Asylum and Migration: Discussion (23 Apr 2024)

Michael McNamara: The Minister said we will not opt in to the returns procedure because we are not in Schengen. Does she accept that at present there is the application in the first instance, a right of appeal to IPAT, and then people may apply for permission to remain if they are unsuccessful up to that point? This is where the delays are. How many cases involving people who have been unsuccessful in the...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: EU Regulations and Directive on International Protection, Asylum and Migration: Discussion (23 Apr 2024)

Michael McNamara: I asked for this figure two months ago and the Minister said she would give it to me when she had it to hand. She still does not have it to hand. Does she have any handle on immigration? Does the Department have a handle on it? I do not mean the Minister personally. Does the Department have a handle on what is happening in immigration in Ireland?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: EU Regulations and Directive on International Protection, Asylum and Migration: Discussion (23 Apr 2024)

Michael McNamara: I have asked for very basic figures on the numbers outstanding. These are applications to the Minister as the Minister for Justice.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: EU Regulations and Directive on International Protection, Asylum and Migration: Discussion (23 Apr 2024)

Michael McNamara: Yes, it does.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: EU Regulations and Directive on International Protection, Asylum and Migration: Discussion (23 Apr 2024)

Michael McNamara: I also asked for month-on-month figures. It is important to see whether there is a trend. Is the backlog getting bigger? That is what I hear at the Four Courts but it is anecdotal unless the Minister gives the figures. Only she and the Department have the figures but they are not giving them, which makes me a little bit suspicious. Until now, the IPO and IPAT have been doing reasonably...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: EU Regulations and Directive on International Protection, Asylum and Migration: Discussion (23 Apr 2024)

Michael McNamara: Applications that are now taking two to three years to process will be processed in 12 weeks. I find that difficult to accept. Will Senators and Deputies get to vote on all the measures individually or will we be told it is all or nothing and that we will not vote on these various regulations and Bills individually?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: EU Regulations and Directive on International Protection, Asylum and Migration: Discussion (23 Apr 2024)

Michael McNamara: It will be all or nothing.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: EU Regulations and Directive on International Protection, Asylum and Migration: Discussion (23 Apr 2024)

Michael McNamara: They are separate pieces of legislation. We have opted in to the procedures directive. There will be a recast procedures directive. It might be logical that we opt in to that. In the context that we took back 15 persons and transferred two in 2022 it seems the burden sharing will be one way. It will not be a panacea. It does not offer the solutions that one might expect it would offer,...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: EU Regulations and Directive on International Protection, Asylum and Migration: Discussion (23 Apr 2024)

Michael McNamara: On the burden sharing, and given that 15 people were transferred back to Ireland in 2022 and two people were transferred out, we seem unable to operate the existing system. How can we have confidence that we will operate a new one?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: EU Regulations and Directive on International Protection, Asylum and Migration: Discussion (23 Apr 2024)

Michael McNamara: I have other questions but I will await the second round. I thank the Chair and the Minister.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: EU Regulations and Directive on International Protection, Asylum and Migration: Discussion (23 Apr 2024)

Michael McNamara: Can I ask a question?

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