Dáil debates
Thursday, 7 November 2024
Ceisteanna ar Pholasaí nó ar Reachtaíocht - Questions on Policy or Legislation
12:20 pm
Pearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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Before I begin with my question, I want to add to the comments made by the Tánaiste on this last sitting day of the Thirty-third Dáil, about the work of all the staff who have ensured the smooth running of these Houses during difficult times. I thank the ushers, cleaners, kitchen staff and those who ensure the proceedings are broadcast and the media which plays a vital role in making sure that the debates are spread further and further afield.
As I was reminded by the Tánaiste, we were stretched here. Many of us like to forget the convention centre days, but people stretched themselves in relation to that. I want to add to those comments.
When the Tánaiste mentioned the convention centre days, those were the days when he was claiming that the banks were never bailed out. I am not sure whether he will go into the general election campaign with that slogan or whether he has resiled from that; time will tell.
We are going into an election. The Taoiseach will call the election tomorrow. The Irish people have waited almost five years to have their say and it is now vital that voters have every opportunity to hear and see what parties have to offer. We have learned that Virgin Media has refused to hold any leadership debates in the course of the general election campaign. In 2020, there were seven leadership debates three on RTÉ, three on Virgin Media and one on TG4 with some controversy obviously as our party leader was excluded from the initial debate. It is shocking that this has been reduced to two leadership debates altogether, with RTÉ having a monopoly. Does the Tánaiste believe that it is important that RTÉ and Virgin Media both host leadership debates during the election campaign as it is an important public service role for both our two main operators?
12:30 pm
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I do believe in debate and discussions; I always have. I have engaged in them. By the way, I think it is good that the Government has gone full term; I have been very consistent on that. It allows us to do policies on a medium- to long-term basis which is good for the country. I think having elections every two years would be bad for the country and would be disruptive. I note the Deputy's comment that the people have waited five years. People expect governments to go full term. Generally speaking, they want governments to go the distance and then we have an election when people can adjudicate in respect of what a government or an opposition brings forward in policy terms as an alternative. Different methodologies can be used such as the debating formats, interviews and so on. I have no involvement-----
Pearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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Therefore, the Tánaiste does not want the Virgin Media debate.
Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Please, let the Tánaiste answer.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I have been involved in more debates than the Deputy ever has been. I have no problem with debates and I hope that debates can be organised but I do not govern all that.
Louise O'Reilly (Dublin Fingal, Sinn Fein)
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Good, so he does want to be involved.
Ivana Bacik (Dublin Bay South, Labour)
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On the last sitting day of the Dáil, I add my own words of thanks on behalf of the Labour Party to you, a Cheann Comhairle, and to all the staff here in the Oireachtas who make the complex run smoothly for all of us. I thank them for their great help and support over this term; it is deeply appreciated.
As we face into our own election, we are all conscious of enormous impact internationally of the US election result just yesterday for Ukraine, for Gaza, for climate action, for women's rights, for migrant rights and indeed for Europe. Yesterday, Irish media reported that internal Government briefings warned of potential impacts of Trump's win for Ireland's economy. When we saw Irish troops in Lebanon targeted by Israel, I was very grateful to the Tánaiste for his constructive engagement with Opposition leaders at that time. I ask for the same transparency and the same engagement to take place even as we face into an election campaign and that the outgoing Government would brief Opposition leaders on the potential impact of president-elect Trump's win for the economy and for Ireland more generally. It would be helpful if we saw that. Many of us do have concerns about what a more protectionist American trade policy will mean for Ireland. It would be helpful if we could have those briefings.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I acknowledge what the Deputy has said about the US presidential election. Given the strength of the economic relationship between the United States and Ireland it is a very important relationship. More than 200,000 jobs are provided by US companies in Ireland directly, with many more indirectly. Irish companies provide approximately 100,000 jobs in America and more indirectly. This Government has weathered many significant economic shocks. We have had to navigate Brexit and the aftermath of Brexit. We have had to deal with the first pandemic in 100 years, and we did. We had to deal with the inflation that came after it with the post-Covid inflationary spike, which was exacerbated by the Russian invasion of Ukraine, the first war on European soil since the Second World War. As a country and a government, we have weathered very severe economic shocks.
There are terrible wars in Sudan, the Middle East and Ukraine. The German Government has collapsed. The world is in turmoil and we need to have a government that can manage and navigate that for the next five years. I will give consideration to what the Deputy said. There are many subjective views there and governments need-----
Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Thank you, Tánaiste.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I will discuss it with the Deputy. There are no big surprises in what has been identified.
Gary Gannon (Dublin Central, Social Democrats)
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As the Tánaiste is a proud Corkonian, I am a very proud Dubliner. It irked my attention this week when I heard him refer to the fact that several of our cities are unsafe. It is not that I disagree because there is a perception of unsafety. However, as leader of Fianna Fáil and a member of Cabinet, does he accept responsibility for the decline in our capital city? We have seen our policing numbers fall. We have seen dereliction blight our streetscapes. All the while throughout this term I have asked for some action. We got a document with recommendations but no budget. What culpability does the Tánaiste accept for the fact that our city is in a little bit of decline, and needs investment and State intervention?
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Generally speaking, when talking to people we find they do not feel as safe in urban environments, particularly at night, as they once would have. Many factors are responsible for that in cities and in towns across the country. Obviously, Covid interrupted training in Templemore and recruitment of gardaí and we would have loved to have recruited more gardaí. There are also other factors in terms of how cities will develop into the future. We need a much stronger residential footprint in cities now than was the case historically. Cities are changing in terms of the old anchor model with big department stores and so on. There is a lot of change going on. We need to invest in the public realm as we have. I just mentioned €170 million for the North Quays in Waterford. All of that will help in terms of a better public realm and better safety.
Gary Gannon (Dublin Central, Social Democrats)
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That is not in Dublin.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I am talking about cities in general; the Deputy mentioned cities in general. Of course, I work most, if not all, of the week here in Dublin. I have a great affection for Dublin. I like Dublin and I walk a lot around Dublin. The task force report has been produced and the city council has resources. The various local authorities around Dublin have substantial resources. We will continue to provide more. When the Deputy will look at our manifesto, we have significant funding for Dublin in that regard.
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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As this Dáil comes to an end, I thank the staff. We might be banging our head off a brick wall with the Government, but we are always pushing at an open door with all the staff here.
Here is scandal that is illustrative of what Deputy Bríd Smith was talking about as to whose interests get prioritised in Irish society and why we have a housing crisis. For niche living in Dún Laoghaire in a facility built by a Celtic tiger developer for what was supposed to be 200 units for people to live in, people can book holiday accommodation on booking.com, a breach of the planning permission on which we have called for enforcement. It has been turned into a hotel. When we campaigned to get social and affordable housing on that site, we were ignored but a Celtic tiger developer is now charging more than €200 a night on booking.com. For that people get a fold-out bed in a room the size of a disability car parking space and shared facilities in the area. It is an absolute scandal. This is one of the people who helped crash this economy and leave us with the legacy of the housing crisis. Why has that been allowed to happen under this Government's remit? The same people who crashed this economy because of greed over property are doing it again on a site that should be providing accommodation that is affordable for ordinary working people in this country.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I am not aware of the specific site. However, from the beginning of this Government, we have been determined to bring about a step change in the number of social and affordable homes that would be built in the country and we have done that compared with what was done in the previous number of years. As I said earlier, 12,000 social homes were delivered last year, approximately 8,000 of which were newly built. We need to get to a situation we are building more than that-----
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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What about this?
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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-----and acquiring state land.
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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We are seeing profiteering and flagrant abuse.
Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Please-----
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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The planners in the local authority should deal with a situation like that. If the Deputy is saying there has been a fundamental breach of the planning laws, it should be dealt with. The planning laws should be enforced and that is a matter for the local authority. It should get on and do it.
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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This developer is a well-known name.
Verona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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I also thank all the staff who have been helpful in the short time I have been here. I may never be back, but I have enjoyed it.
I also want to pay respects to the family of Brandon Roche in Wexford.
His body was recovered from Wexford Harbour yesterday, after a ten-day search. He will be buried tomorrow. This is almost the 70th time I have stood here expressing concerns about mental health in Wexford. Brandon's body has been recovered less than two weeks after my last representation.
The figures I have come from responses to parliamentary questions, so they are facts - they are not made up. The response from the HSE is that in 2023 there was of a total of 677 referrals to the child and adolescent mental health services in the whole of Wexford, of which 202 were seen, less than a third. Brandon Roche was 19. Two thirds of the referrals made by doctors, accident and emergency services or through the National Educational Psychological Service, NEPS, were not seen.
12:40 pm
Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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I thank the Deputy.
Verona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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That is 475 individuals. The Ceann Comhairle will have to indulge me because this is a life-or-death issue. It is 475 children with nowhere to go. GPs and their families are at a loss as to what to do. I have mentioned this 70 times. Two weeks ago, the Minister said 24-7 services were available through the accident and emergency unit. These are referrals from the accident and emergency unit, but they are not being seen. Two thirds of children are not being seen.
Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Let us try to get an answer for the Deputy.
Verona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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We can send every voluntary organisation to search for a body for ten days – from the RNLI, to Slaney Search and Rescue and all of the rescue services, but we cannot do prevention. We cannot see the children to assist the families when that is needed.
Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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I thank the Deputy. The time is up now.
Verona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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This is a failing of the Government - of the Minister, the Tánaiste, the Taoiseach, and the Minister of State sitting behind the Tánaiste.
Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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I ask the Deputy to please allow the Tánaiste to respond.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I extend my deepest sympathies to the family of Brandon Roche. It is a very sad situation for his family and friends. Our thoughts and prayers are with them.
Prevention is the key in terms of mental health more generally, but it begins earlier in life. The most important programmes are the social, personal and health education, SPHE, programmes in primary schools where children build up self-esteem, mutual respect and the values that hopefully can build resilience in life. All schools are now developing well-being curricula and programmes to try to demonstrate the interdependence of all of us, if one likes, and the need to help each other as we grow and develop in life.
We have invested. We have done a lot with non-governmental organisations in the mental health advocacy area. We fund a lot of those organisations, including Jigsaw and Pieta House. They received well over €100 million. They engage with young people and help them when their mental health is impaired or under pressure or when issues arise.
Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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I thank the Tánaiste.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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We must continue to do that. I pay tribute to all of the search and rescue teams and organisations, some of which we fund, including the Civil Defence and others across the board.
Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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We are over time.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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It is a sad situation. We must keep working on it. Investment has increased but it is a societal issue as well.
Mattie McGrath (Tipperary, Independent)
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Ar an gcéad dul síos, ba mhaith liom mo bhuíochas a ghabháil leis an gCeann Comhairle agus le gach éinne atá ag obair sa Teach seo.
On behalf of the Rural Independent Group, I extend my gratitude and thanks to you, a Cheann Comhairle, Peter Finnegan, Brigid McGlynn, and all the staff, from those we meet at the front gate when we come in, the ushers especially, to the cleaners, secretarial staff, printers, gardaí and everybody else, for looking after us so well in the Thirty-third Dáil. I express my heartfelt thanks.
What do hotels like Racket Hall in Roscrea, Dundrum House Hotel, Hearns Hotel in Clonmel and Kilcoran Lodge Hotel, a beautiful hotel in Cahir, have in common? They form a vein through the centre of Tipperary. The British had a policy of dividing and conquering, but the Government is dividing and conquering the people now. It is dividing the people. Without consultation, and against the will of the people, the Government has forced International Protection Accommodation Service, IPAS, persons into these hotels. The Government has stopped them trading as hotels, which is hugely damaging to the economy. The fact is that there was no consultation whatsoever and the will of the people is being denied. People will have a chance to reflect on what the Government has done to them in three weeks' time. It is shameful the way Tipperary has been treated.
Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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I thank the Deputy.
Mattie McGrath (Tipperary, Independent)
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It is a noble county with noble business people. The good people of Dundrum are still at the gates and will remain there because they have not been consulted. It flies in the face of democracy to spend €446,000 on modular units in Clonmel, which should cost €70,000-----
Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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I thank the Deputy.
Mattie McGrath (Tipperary, Independent)
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-----when the Government cannot house the 15,000 people who are homeless. It is a shameful legacy.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I agree that Tipperary is a most noble county, and a beautiful one, but on the specific issue Deputy McGrath references, the Government has taken a position that in the future it does not want hotels to be used for the purposes of housing asylum seekers. Hotels in towns in particular are a vital piece of the tourism infrastructure. We are endeavouring to create State-owned facilities and accommodation to deal with those coming to the country seeking asylum. It is acknowledged that the use of hotels in the core parts of towns can be detrimental to their economic and tourism development. That is something I believe in, notwithstanding all of the challenges that are coming our way in respect of this issue. Other broader policy issues will be required as well.
Joan Collins (Dublin South Central, Independents 4 Change)
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On behalf of the Independent Group, I thank staff across all the grades and work areas for their help and support and their generosity of spirit over the past Dáil term.
My question relates to the survivors and families of the Dublin and Monaghan bombings. I met with representatives of the families recently and I presume the situation has not changed. I was informed that despite promising he would meet the families, the Tánaiste has not yet met them. They met civil servants but they have not met the Tánaiste directly, which they were under the impression would happen.
These families have been through years of stonewalling, surveillance and hurt. There is a decades long history of mishandling and neglect from the Garda and the State. They have been waiting decades for the release of key case files. The least they deserve is for promises made to them to be kept. Will the Tánaiste confirm that he will meet with the families and update them today in the House on when the files on Operation Newham will be released?
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I have met with relatives. I attend the ceremony every year.
Joan Collins (Dublin South Central, Independents 4 Change)
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Yes, it was at the ceremony that the Tánaiste committed to meeting the relatives.
Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Could Deputy Collins please allow the Tánaiste to reply?
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I will meet them. There has never been an issue with meeting Relatives for Justice.
Joan Collins (Dublin South Central, Independents 4 Change)
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The Tánaiste has not met them.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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My Department has been very helpful. I have been supportive of the work of Relatives for Justice. They certainly have not been stonewalled by the Irish State. I am very clear on that. The Irish Government has led the way in trying to put pressure on the British Government to release particular material and files on the Dublin and Monaghan bombings. I am still committed to it, irrespective of what happens in the general election. The future Irish Government will be very committed to pursuing this.
Joan Collins (Dublin South Central, Independents 4 Change)
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Could the Tánaiste confirm that he will meet them during the election, which is a busy time?
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I am not playing elections with them.
Seán Haughey (Dublin Bay North, Fianna Fail)
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It has been an honour and privilege to serve in this House for so many years. I thank my constituents for their loyalty and support over so many years and for placing their trust in me. I also thank you, a Cheann Comhairle, for all your encouragement and help, and the staff of the Houses of the Oireachtas for their unfailing courtesy and for ensuring the smooth running of this House.
There has been some discussion already this morning about our economic model. As the Tánaiste knows, we are a small, open economy. President-elect Trump has promised to reduce US corporation tax, which poses a threat to our foreign direct investment, a model which has served us so well since the late 1950s. There is also the threat of imposing tariffs on EU goods and services. How concerned is the Tánaiste about our economic model? As a party and a country, we believe in free trade. What do we need to do to protect that and to ensure jobs, employment and economic growth going forward?
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Deputy for his question. I also pay tribute to him for his outstanding contribution to this House as a parliamentarian over many years.
He has always been attentive, dutiful and informed on the issues of the day, be they domestic, European or international. His consistency and application are exemplary. Perhaps Deputies in the new Dáil could follow his example in terms of work ethic, which the Deputy has in abundance.
On the question asked, the United States is entitled to reduce corporation tax, just as we as a country have decided to reduce corporation tax. The more worrying aspect is the introduction of tariffs on goods imported into the United States, which would probably then provoke a response from Europe with reciprocal tariffs. Ireland is a small, open economy which depends on free trade and fair trade. It is extraordinary that the House has not been in a position to ratify the Comprehensive Economic and Trade Agreement, CETA. That tells its own story about a disconnect between this House sometimes and the economic realities of our country's lifeblood, which is trade. We export most of what we produce.
The tariff issue and protectionism predate President Trump. A more protectionist and isolationist trend has been emerging in America over the past ten or 15 years. We saw it during Covid. Likewise, in Europe there are elements around strategic autonomy developing - this idea of a more protectionist Europe. None of that is good for Ireland.
12:50 pm
Martin Browne (Tipperary, Sinn Fein)
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I thank the Ceann Comhairle and all the staff for their friendship and help during my term here.
South Tipperary has been failed by this Government and Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael governments over the years. The St. Michael's unit in Clonmel has been closed. We have no mental health beds in south Tipperary. The Minister of State, Deputy Butler, who is seated behind the Tánaiste, closed St. Brigid's Hospital in Carrick-on-Suir and has refused to open it. On 25 October, I asked the Minister of State about the community nursing home in Cashel. She gave me a long list of things that are happening in Nenagh and Clonmel but did not mention Cashel, the issue I asked about. At that stage, €184,000 had been spent but not a block laid or even a site chosen. In the week and a half since, we have been told another €20,000 has been spent, meaning €200,000 has been spent with no site chosen. We need to know what is happening. This is another complete failure by this Government and previous governments. It is another waste of public money, with €200,000 of public money spent and nothing to show for it.
Mary Butler (Waterford, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Deputy for the question. There is a little bit of short memory going on here. My very first meeting, as Minister of State with responsibility for mental health and older people, was in the Minella hotel in Clonmel.
Mary Butler (Waterford, Fianna Fail)
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I was three days into the brief at the time and the Deputy was present. The Deputy asked me to do two things that day. He asked me to build and open a crisis house in Clonmel, which I did it, and to open a Jigsaw facility, which I also did. Let us get the facts on the ground. The Deputy is talking about older people now. There is, correctly, a new community nursing unit, CNU, in Clonmel. I remind the Deputy that Clonmel is also in his constituency.
Martin Browne (Tipperary, Sinn Fein)
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I know that. I asked about Cashel.
Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Allow the Minister of State to answer, please.
Mary Butler (Waterford, Fianna Fail)
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The new CNU will be handed over to the HSE in the next three to six months. It is a 50-bed, en suite, state-of-the-art unit which cost €25 million.
Mary Butler (Waterford, Fianna Fail)
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In case anybody might think we forgot about south Tipperary, my good friend, Councillor Imelda Goldsboro, is at the doors and she has not forgotten one thing about what is happening in Clonmel.
With regard to the CNU the Deputy spoke about, Councillor Roger Kennedy was in touch with me during the week and I engaged again on the matter. I found out from the HSE that it will have a plan in place in the next three months. That is in relation to the site but to reassure the Deputy, this is one of seven CNUs that will be built next year. The money is ring-fenced for the unit and it will go ahead.
Martin Browne (Tipperary, Sinn Fein)
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Some €200,000 has been wasted.
Pádraig O'Sullivan (Cork North Central, Fianna Fail)
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Last winter, the Tánaiste, the then Minister for Finance, Deputy Michael McGrath, and I surveyed the damage that had occurred at Sarsfields GAA Club in Glanmire following extensive flooding. The astro turf pitch and bar area were destroyed and the clubhouse damaged. The main pitch has to be reinstated. There have been long delays with insurers, loss adjusters and so on. To be fair, the State and the Government have always said they would stand by the club and would not be found wanting when that process had been completed. I have been in regular contact with the Minister of State, Deputy Thomas Byrne, who has visited the site more than once and has been consistent in his support for the club. Now that all of the issues surrounding the loss adjusters and insurance have been resolved, will the Tánaiste confirm, preferably before we leave today, when the State support that was pledged will be with the club?
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I met the Deputy at Sarsfields grounds after the flooding. The club played a role in helping to alleviate the danger to the town when those horrific floods happened. We went to the Minister of State, Deputy Thomas Byrne, and, in what was an exceptional measure given the impact of the floods in destroying the entire grounds, an allocation to the club of €570,000 was announced some weeks ago. A Supplementary Estimate was formally passed through the House yesterday to enable that grant to be paid, along with others, and an instruction has issued from the Department for the grant to be issued. It will, I hope, be in the bank next Monday or next week. That has now happened.
Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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That is good news anyway.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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It is good news all around.
Brendan Smith (Cavan-Monaghan, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Ceann Comhairle and all the staff in the Houses for the courtesy and support they have shown over the years.
Our small and medium enterprises, which are the backbone of our economy, particularly in smaller urban and rural areas, have faced particular challenges over the last few years due to increased costs. Many of those businesses fear for their viability into the future. Serious problems have now arisen for a large percentage of them in accessing the new power up grant of €4,000. The first increased cost of business scheme, ICOB, had 17 categories and paid 50% of the rates of a business. ICOB 2 paid 50% of rates as well but the 17 categories were reduced to two, namely, accommodation and food service, and wholesale and retail. Only the businesses that had classified themselves within those two categories in ICOB 1 got ICOB 2. The businesses within the other 15 classifications did not get any notification that they were ineligible for ICOB 2 and many did not follow up as, in many instances, only small payments were due because their rates bills were relatively small. Now, businesses that received ICOB 1 but not ICOB 2 are not eligible to apply for the much better power up grant of €4,000 announced in the recent budget. This is devastating for many businesses and must be changed. The Department must ensure that all businesses that got ICOB 1 get the power up grant. These businesses were not informed about the changes and they need this financial support. This morning, I received many calls from small businesses which put themselves in the classification they thought was right. There were 17 classifications and a business could easily fit into one of those categories. A decision was made at administrative level which is totally unfair. It must be changed immediately.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Deputy for raising this issue. The power up grant announced as part of the budget builds on the successful increased cost of business scheme that this year has paid out some €244 million to more than 75,000 businesses right across the country. The power up grant now has a budget of €170 million. Qualifying businesses will receive a grant of €4,000. More than 29,000 retail and hospitality businesses have registered for the grant since it was launched on 24 October. In order to get payments to eligible businesses by the end of the year, the qualifying criteria for the power up grant are aligned with the ICOB scheme. As the Deputy said, there are two types and he is correct that the businesses that did not receive a second payment under ICOB are not eligible to register for the power up grant. It is my understanding that the Minister of State, Deputy Calleary, has said this was being looked at within the Department with a view to seeing if we can do something to sort it out. The Deputy raised a fair point and it is one that needs to be examined.
Brendan Smith (Cavan-Monaghan, Fianna Fail)
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Will the Tánaiste ensure this is addressed as a matter of urgency because businesses need these payments before the end of this year?
Verona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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The closing date is tomorrow.
Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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It is urgent.
Darren O'Rourke (Meath East, Sinn Fein)
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In 2009, Meath had a population of 180,000 and had 315 gardaí. In 2024, the county has a population greater than 220,000 and has 306 gardaí. It has had an increase in population of over 40,000 and a reduction of nine in the number of gardaí. We have had record resignations from An Garda Síochána and missed recruitment targets every year, including post Covid. Under Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael, we have cemented Meath's position as the county with the lowest number of gardaí per population. Does the Tánaiste accept that is an abject failure?
1:00 pm
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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As I said earlier, Covid-19 had an impact on recruitment more generally. We need more gardaí and we need them more quickly. Recruitment has increased significantly over the past two years. Over the next number of years, there will have to be significant and substantial recruitment of members of the Garda to ensure the requisite number of gardaí are in towns the length and breadth of the country and not just in the major cities. That is an issue, and I acknowledge it as an issue. It was not for the want of investment over the past number of years. The impact of Covid has been quite far-reaching.
Fergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael)
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As someone who leaving the House, the unfailing constant in this House is the ushers and their friendly way they deal with us as we go from the front to the back benches and places in between. It is important that we acknowledge that. I also acknowledge the catering staff, cleaners and people you meet every day. This place could not work without them. They are absolutely fantastic.
I have raised many issues over the years. I welcome the module in the Covid inquiry that will deal with the approach to nursing homes, but 23 people died in Dealgan House, the only nursing home in the country the HSE took over because it was deeply concerned about what happened. Will the Tánaiste change the terms of reference to the nursing home module to include an examination of Dealgan House and what happened there?
This goes to the heart of our country. If people die in the way that those people died and we ignore them, that is not good enough. If they were children, would we not add them to the inquiry? They were older people, including people with dementia. They suffered and died and there was nobody there for them. That is why the HSE went into the nursing home. That is a fact. While I always recognise the good work of the Minister of State, Deputy Mary Butler, I ask the Tánaiste to do that.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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First, the Government has taken a decision to establish the inquiry in the form that it has. It is open to a new Government to examine that. It certainly will examine it.
Fergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael)
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Would you recommend that it would?
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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We have to be conscious that to do it for just one nursing home could be problematic.
Fergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael)
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It is the only one the HSE took over. That is the point.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I am not saying no to it.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Others may come forward. I do not want to make cast-iron guarantees on one specific home without looking at the broader issue of nursing homes more generally, which needs to be examined.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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It has come to our attention that Kathleen Watkins, the famous musician, harpist, writer and broadcaster, has passed away this morning, five years after her beloved Gay Byrne passed away. She was the first continuity announcer on RTÉ on the opening night of Teilifís Éireann on new year's eve 1961. She was an iconic figure in Irish broadcasting, in terms of the history of modern broadcasting from the 1960s onward. She was a dignified woman who made an outstanding contribution in her own right to the world of music, broadcasting and, latterly, children's writing. She wrote Pigín of Howth and other books which were extraordinary works in themselves. Ar dheis Dé go raibh a h-anam dílis.
Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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I think we would all like to be associated with that. People of our generation would particularly regard her as a national treasure and inspiration to many. We send our deepest sympathies on behalf of the House to her daughters and extended family.
Gino Kenny (Dublin Mid West, People Before Profit Alliance)
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Forty-five years ago, children from St. Mary's Youth Club went travelled to Wicklow, to the Glen of Imaal . If the Tánaiste is familiar with that walk, he will know it brings you up to Lugnaquillia, the highest mountain in Leinster. It is a fantastic walk. On that fateful day, one of the children picked up an object which he thought was part of an engine but seconds later it exploded, as it was an unused shell from a tank. It killed three children and maimed many more. In September, thejournal.ie uncovered evidence that was not flagged at the time in terms of warnings from children who had previously done the same. None of those children ever received a State apology. Would the Government consider giving the children and families whose loved ones were killed on that day a State apology?
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I would. The new Government would be in a position to do that properly and comprehensively, having looked at all of the issues of the terrible events of 45 years ago, and to do so in an informed and proper way. I recently received correspondence on this. It will fall to the new Government to examine that.
Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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Seo í an uair dheireanach a labhróidh mé sa Dáil. Gabhaim buíochas leis an gCeann Comhairle agus an fhoireann uile atá sa Teach seo as ucht na hoibre ar fad a dhéanann siad agus an bealach a chaitheann siad linn i gcónaí. Tá siad go deas réchúiseach, tuisceanach agus stuama.
Mar is eol don Tánaiste, níor aontaigh mé riamh leis an gcinneadh a rinneadh sa bhliain 2012 fáil réidh le hionadaíocht thofa ar bhord Údarás na Gaeltachta. Cuireadh ann é den chéad uair i 1979. Tá a fhios agam go ndearna an tAire Airgeadais, nuair a bhí sé ina Aire Stáit don Ghaeltacht, agus an tAire Stáit reatha, an Teachta Thomas Byrne, go leor oibre ar Bhille Údarás na Gaeltachta. An cheist atá agam ná, ar tharla nár ritheadh an Bille sin ina Acht agus tá sí ar Chéim an Choiste, má thoghtar an Tánaiste arís, an bhfuil sé i gceist ag an Rialtas geallúint a thabhairt go leanfar leis an mBille sin san Oireachtas san áit ar thosaigh sé ag scor na Dála seo? Tá imní ar an bpobal ar fud na Gaeltachta faoi.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Ar dtús báire, táim sásta geallúint a thabhairt go leanfar ar aghaidh leis an reachtaíocht sin. Sula dtéimid isteach in aon rialtas eile, ba chóir don Teachta bheith cinnte nach mbeimid ar an taobh seo den Teach ag dul isteach i rialtas gan an gheallúint a bheith laistigh den chlár Rialtais nua go gcríochnófar an Bille seo agus é a chur i bhfeidhm. Mar aon leis sin, gabhaim buíochas leis an Teachta Ó Cuív as ucht an méid seirbhíse atá tugtha aige mar Theachta Dála agus mar Aire i rith na mblianta. Is Teachta Dála den scoth é an Teachta Ó Cuív agus ba Aire den scoth é chomh maith.
For the benefit of those not as proficient in Irish, I want to pay tribute to Deputy Ó Cuív for his outstanding parliamentary service to this country over quite a number of years and as a Minister. I have never come across a Minister, in particular a Minister for rural affairs - he was the champion of the creation of that Department – who could leverage funding from every other Department. He would inevitably come up with 2% of the eventual allocation of what he was looking for, but he always got it. Whether it was for a school on an island, a medical facility or whatever, he would always make a compelling case for it and I would suggest to Deputy Shanahan that perhaps he is a good role model in terms of leveraging from the system, working with Ministers and so on. He created an art form in terms of having that capacity.
I was in An Spidéal in Connemara the other day. One could feel the affection for Deputy Ó Cuív, the loyalty to him and the sense of the community being proud of who they elected to Dáil Éireann to represent them, go háirithe duine a bhfuil cumas na Gaeilge aige agus atá báúil do na Gaeltachtaí agus teanga na tíre.
Louise O'Reilly (Dublin Fingal, Sinn Fein)
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I want to add my words of thanks to the Ceann Comhairle, as our Chairperson, and to the staff of the Houses who never ever fail to look after us.
I want to ask the Tánaiste about the latest grant scheme to support small businesses.
It genuinely looks like this one is going the same direction as the others, with €1.4 billion allocated and €1.1 billion returned to the Exchequer because the Government made it too complicated, convoluted and almost impossible for small businesses to access. If a business looks on the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment's website, it will see that retail and hospitality are covered. However, if one clicks on the frequently asked questions, FAQs, it states that retail, hospitality and beauty are covered. I can confirm, in case the Tánaiste is not aware, that those who are working in the hair and beauty industry are struggling every bit as much with the escalating costs of energy, doing business, and so on.
The closing date is tomorrow. I ask that the confusion be cleared up and that a straightforward, streamlined way for struggling businesses to access this much-needed money be provided. I have spoken to accountants and business owners. They tell me they are confused. They will say that it is almost like the Government does not want them to access this money. It is exactly what happened with the increased cost of business, ICOB, scheme, where €1.4 billion was allocated and €1.1 billion was returned to the Exchequer because it simply could not be accessed. It is not the case that businesses do not need the money. They very much do but it seems like the Government is putting barriers and confusion in their way. Given that the closing date is tomorrow, I ask for this to be cleared up and for there to be an extensive campaign to let people know how they can access this grant.
1:10 pm
Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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How familiar is the Tánaiste with the hair and beauty sector?
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Actually quite familiar. One of the happiest places to campaign in is the hairdressing saloon, from experience.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I was recently at one place. Obviously, I know what the Ceann Comhairle is referring to.
Louise O'Reilly (Dublin Fingal, Sinn Fein)
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I will say nothing.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I was with Deputy Stephen Donnelly in Wicklow recently. We walked into a barber shop and Deputy Donnelly said he always gets very lonely when he comes into this place. It is an issue for those of us who are more challenged.
That said, I will talk to the Ministers urgently in respect of this. A total of 29,000 retail and hospitality businesses have already registered for the grant since it was launched on 24 October. A total of €170 million has been allocated. We want it to be allocated. We do not want to create obstacles.
Louise O'Reilly (Dublin Fingal, Sinn Fein)
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I am only telling the Tánaiste what the accountant told me this morning.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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The whole idea was to try to alleviate pressures that small businesses are undoubtedly under because of the increased costs and so on, particularly in hospitality, retail and beauty. I will follow it up.
Matt Shanahan (Waterford, Independent)
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I too thank all the staff and ushers, and the Ceann Comhairle, for their support over the last while. I advise the House that President Higgins has agreed to ring the peace bell at Áras an Uachtaráin for 11 minutes on 11 November, from 11.03 a.m. Perhaps this House could do something in unison to support that initiative. I will drop the Ceann Comhairle a note on it.
To check in with the Tánaiste and be clear for the Waterford voters, there is a hard no to the SETU engineering public private partnership. I remind the Tánaiste that it was first promised in 2007, rehashed in 2009 and promised again in 2018. At the start of Government, it was put into a second batch while Cork and Dublin projects were progressed. All that stands there now are furze bushes and dandelions. There is also a hard no to the runway extension at Waterford Airport, where €25 million was promised by the Tánaiste's Government in 2007. Despite €500 million having been spent on national aviation, not a cent has been given to Waterford Airport in this programme for Government. I have a new slogan for the Tánaiste and the Government parties. They should say "Airports 24-7, SETU for Waterford: all promised, nothing done, stand by for more promises."
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Come off it now. I know an election is coming.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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It is certainly not true about SETU. I mentioned pharmacy earlier and the veterinary college too. The two latest investments involve the procurement of the Waterford Crystal site and the establishment of the South East Technological University. It is unfair to say what the Deputy is saying.
Matt Shanahan (Waterford, Independent)
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There is a €300 million ask.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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The PPP is progressing. It is not a hard no. The airport is not a hard no either. The business case has to be submitted. Just earlier in the House, people were saying that we are not spending money carefully enough. My understanding is that the Department asked for the business case. It has been resubmitted. That can be dealt with positively.
Pauline Tully (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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What does Government plan to do regarding what can only be described as a crisis in children's disability services? The progressing disability services model was established. Children's disability network teams, CDNTs, were set up throughout the country in 2021, but they are not working. The delay in addressing this crisis will have knock-on consequences on all of those children who require services and on their ability to live independently. Early intervention is key, yet the delay in this will mean that we are creating a significant level of dependency. As it stands, the number of applications overdue for completion for assessment of needs stands at 12,722 at the end of quarter 3. That is a 30% increase on the end of last year. The HSE is outsourcing the assessments of needs to private operators, private psychologists and so on, and the cost of that keeps rising as well. We are spending money on vital services but there is no oversight of it and the price keeps going up. There is not even a standardised assessment of needs process. Parents tell me that sometimes it only takes an hour and a half. For over €3,000, an hour and a half for an assessment of needs does not sound right to me. How will it be addressed?
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I never supported progressing disability services when I was in opposition when it was first brought in in 2013. I do not believe it is working and I do not believe it has worked. I believe a multidisciplinary school-led programme should be developed with multidisciplinary therapy teams in schools, beginning with special schools. I recall a time when special schools had therapists on-site and it worked. Progressing disability services was of the view that we should take them out of the special schools and have a broader service for a wider population, but what seems to have happened is that the service has been diluted and too much burden was placed on the CDNTs, which have large numbers. It is not simple but in my view, it clearly has not worked. I am making our commitments as a political party in respect of the multidisciplinary team-based approach in schools. That is a red line issue for me before I go into any other government again. There are issues on the clinical side and with clinical governance, which I get, but what is going on cannot be allowed to continue.
Richard Bruton (Dublin Bay North, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Ceann Comhairle for the extraordinary way in which you have handled the role that you hold. You have upheld the highest of standards. You have been remarkably courteous and very fair in your rulings. The next Dáil will miss you. I have been around for a good while and have seen many cinn comhairle. You have been exceptional in the way you have handled the office.
I have represented an urban community for 44 years now. In my last contribution, I will go back to and talk about my rural roots. I believe rural Ireland is at a moment of fantastic opportunity with the opening up of broadband, renewables, the opportunity for carbon management, the huge asset that is our towns and villages and the new direction coming from the national planning framework to kickstart that. It has been hugely fulfilling for me, in this, my final week, to be able to produce a document on the future of rural Ireland, something that we did with the Fine Gael policy lab. There is a real opportunity that needs to be seized. We need to nurture and enrich some of the phenomenal exemplars of good practice in the community, one of them remarkably led by a former person of this parish, Dr. Jerry Cowley in Mayo. We also need to reimagine the extraordinary assets in our towns and villages and engineer their delivery, as the Housing Commission has said. We need to create scope for more innovative leadership at local level. We need to have more conscious rural targets for electric vehicles and retrofitting.
This is a moment of real opportunity. I hope whoever enters government will take this opportunity to heart and make a shift in the way the State thinks about leadership at a local level, because we are too centralised in the way we think. Every Government Department has to reorient how it regards local government and create new structures that will be more fulfilling for the future.
1:20 pm
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I first thank the Deputy for his service to the country. I remember well when I became Minister for education, he was my Opposition spokesperson in education and he had an extraordinary grasp of the detail of the brief at the time, as reflected in the many parliamentary questions, both written and oral. At that time, parliamentary questions-----
Richard Bruton (Dublin Bay North, Fine Gael)
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I would not have matched Bernard Durkan.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Priority questions at that time was nearly a better model because the Opposition person had about three or four minutes or more per question. Ministers might prefer the present system where it is one minute and one minute, but that is what the Opposition today wants. It does not often see things through, but anyway.
The one thing I agree with Deputy Bruton on is the opportunities opening up for rural Ireland and I have seen it myself as I have travelled the length and breadth of the country. Sometimes there is a very negative narrative around rural Ireland but it is actually growing and I think technology is a great enabler. One thing I will say is I reacted at the time with dismay to the decision of our previous Government, of which I was not a member and was in opposition, to abolish town councils and town commissioners. Many towns that grew around the country had leadership at local level who had a vision for their town. In my own area, I think of towns like Kinsale or the Clonakiltys of this world where they had a vision locally and it worked. The town commissioners across the country worked, including many in Waterford, Lismore being one. It was in our document last time and I think all parties should have it if we are serious about it. Deputy Howlin was Minister at the time, or was in that Government, and he says he now regrets that decision.
Anyway, the Deputy is making a broader point on what can be done for rural Ireland and I am 100% in agreement with that. It is growing. We need investment in water, the grid and housing because grid and water connections are the big holdback currently.
Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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I thank the Tánaiste. Last but by no means least, I call Deputy English.
Damien English (Meath West, Fine Gael)
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First, for my last contribution and much like Deputy Bruton, I thank the Ceann Comhairle for his great work. I thank Mr. Peter Finnegan and all the team for looking after us as Deputies and Ministers from all sides of the House and always in a very balanced way. No matter what level of service you look for in this House and no matter what angle it is, we are all treated equally which is the way it should be and again, part of the service we provide to our communities is enhanced by all the team here and the many levels as well. In particular, I think the Ceann Comhairle has many times, certainly when I held the housing brief, had to sit here night after night and listen to many of us repeat the same thing over again from both sides of the House, probably for a couple of years. Finally and thankfully, all those debates led to many positive changes in housing. This is only work in progress and we will build on it. Sometimes having to listen for hours and hours here does pay off for all us. I thank the Ceann Comhairle for his patience and courtesy to us all.
I wish to raise two issues with the Tánaiste. Deputy Smith very clearly went through the categories of small businesses we have been trying to reach with supports from the schemes and I want to add to that. Every effort has been made by the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment under the Minister, Deputy Burke, and Ministers of State, Deputies Calleary and Higgins, in trying to reach the businesses that need support. There were different analyses and reports done to feed into trying to choose the categories that need it but we have missed a couple of key categories. Deputy Smith outlined where the opportunity to categorise yourself might have been missed in the summer. Certainly, as we approach trying to reach businesses with supports, this scheme closes tomorrow for applications and it would be great to be able to extend it for a week or two to give some businesses a chance to reorganise that. We have to look at where we are with our SME community, however, not just with this scheme but going forward for any Government.
Over the past three or four Governments, certainly the Fine Gael, Fianna Fáil and Green Parties in this Government, have really reached out and tried to help small businesses at key times of crisis, be it covid, Brexit or the war in Ukraine. There were major interventions that were well received by business owners and that protected many thousands of jobs. I have no doubt about that but we are still going through a new phase. We have brought in many changes to labour laws, sick pay and many other areas that everybody agrees were right. There is no doubt about that. They were all right and nobody would take them back but we have to recognise it makes it difficult for small businesses we are all used to and that are a key part of our communities, be that the corner shop, the play and leisure sector, the tourism sector, the small coffee shop or restaurant. I am singling out small businesses because it is harder for them to absorb all these costs that will probably be there forever. These changes are there to protect workers and to give them greater rights. They absolutely need them but we must recognise that if we want these smaller businesses that do not have large HR departments or cannot afford to carry all those extra costs, we need to find new ways to permanently support that sector if we want it to remain in the way we are used to.
We talk about rural Ireland and our communities where there are massive opportunities right throughout the country because this country is being run extremely well. We need to bear in mind, however, that we also want to hang on to those businesses and jobs we have always had because they are very often the first jobs all of us had as young people growing up. We need to find a category. There is no lack of desire to help them, I want to be clear on that. The political will is there but it is about being able to find a way that singles out these categories that need protection so we can then reach them with permanent supports and schemes going forward. I want to flag it now. There is a chance with this scheme but more generally, we need to bear in mind there are categories of businesses that need a different kind of permanent intervention if we are to protect them and keep them there for years to come.
Again, I thank the people of Meath-West and Meath who have supported me in votes and many other ways since 2002 and before that in the local authority and parts of Westmeath on occasion as well. I thank everybody for their support. It was a pleasure and an honour to represent them here.
Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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I thank Deputy English. We wish him well in the next phase of his career.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I first wish Deputy English the very best in his future career. He has been a very hardworking and committed Deputy. He has also been a very friendly Deputy which matters, as does courtesy and so forth. He gave everything as a Minister and I want to acknowledge that. Regarding the issue he raised, there is no doubt there has been an increase in the cumulative cost base of small businesses. That is a very real issue out there at present. Those various increases have all come together: the convergence of the minimum wage to the living wage by 2026, the guidance from the Low Pay Commission has been a factor and the various changes we have made. They are all coming together and it is therefore acknowledged and understood. The report he did at the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment said it impacted most on the hospitality and retail businesses in particular. ICOB was designed to try to at least alleviate some of those pressures. The new power up grant is also designed to try to alleviate those pressures over the winter period. A total of 29,000 businesses have now signed up for the power up grant. There is €170 million to be made available to small businesses to try to alleviate the pressures put on them. It is an issue that needs constant attention by any new Government in the future, of that there is no doubt.
Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Before we conclude, I thank members of the Government, leaders of the political parties and all Members for their friendship and co-operation throughout the period of the Thirty-third Dáil. I have thoroughly enjoyed the job and working with all the Deputies. I might get a bit frustrated from time to time but not as frustrated as some of the Deputies become on occasion as they seek to advance their programmes and cases.
I of course wish the members retiring well. Many of them are going to face new challenges in life and I hope they enjoy a long, happy and healthy retirement. For those going forward, I wish them the very best and success in the election. My hope is that the Thirty-fourth Dáil will be populated by more females, more women, more young people and more people from a diverse background. I think we all want to see that happen.
Finally, I want to thank Mr. Peter Finnegan and the entire team he manages. It is a large team who provide a whole range of services to us. I have never had the privilege of working with a more committed and dedicated team of people whose only interest ever has been ensuring that Members here get the best possible support they can in making Dáil Éireann the best parliamentary assembly it can be. I thank them from the bottom of my heart for that.
Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Leis sin ráite, tá muid chun sos a ghlacadh ar feadh 40 nóiméad. You might have noticed we are a bit over time.