David Stanton (Cork East, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I thought I was finished yesterday, but I am glad to be here this morning. I thank the Minister of State for being here.

The various grants the Government has made available to support small businesses are extraordinarily welcome and very important. The increased cost of business grant and the power up grant are the two most recent ones. In every scheme, anomalies will always arise. A number of anomalies has arisen here, which I want to draw attention to this morning, and that I ask the Minister of State and the Department to look at. One is the issue whereby a business is running an operation in a property but it is renting the property and the property owner is paying the tax. This happens because sometimes property owners were left with the rates bill in the past if the business was not paying the rates. The arrangements were made in many cases where the rates cost would be included in the rental cost, and the landlord would pay the rates and would ensure that it was paid. What has happened now is, because the business itself is not paying the rates, it is deemed ineligible for the power up grant and the increased cost of business grant. That is quite unfair.

I have been looking through some of the documentation the Department has put together. In fairness to the Department and the Government, they have done great work in this particular area. The Minister, Deputy Peter Burke, stated that "the priority has been to ensure that as many businesses as possible" in the hospitality and retail sectors that are facing great difficulty due to increased costs of running a business "receive the money as quickly as possible". However, these particular small businesses are now excluded. Another frequently asked question is who is eligible for the grant. The eligibility criteria states: "Your business must be a commercially ... [traded entity] currently operating from a property that is commercially rateable." If the rates are being paid, even indirectly, I contend that we can find a mechanism whereby the business can actually receive the grant and it can be kept in business and keep people employed. It should not be beyond the bounds of possibility to do that.

Other issues have arisen as well. Somebody applied for the increased cost of business grant and did not tick the fact he or she was a retailer. The person might be a retailer anyway, but, for example, if the person was involved in art or something else instead, if he or she goes for the power up grant, the algorithm in the computer the person applied through will not allow him or her go any further and he or she is stopped. The person contacts the local authority, which says it cannot talk about that as it is a Department issue, but there is no one to talk to. There is a number of business owners around the country doing the best they could, were honest and straightforward and did not tick the correct box the first time and now cannot go forward for the power up grant. Again, I ask the Minister, and the Department, if it is listening, to have a look at that and see if there is a way of actually sorting that out.

A third anomaly is if somebody was in a rateable property and rates were being paid, and the person moved to a different property during the course of this particular grant being administered. The person is paying rates on the second property as well. That person also cannot draw down the power up grant because he or she moved properties and the property he or she is in now is different. The person has not had the time involved in paying rates through that property in 2023 to claim it back. The ratepayer needs to talk a person, not a computer, in order to fix that. It is unfair on the people if they have paid the rates and did everything upfront, lawfully and so on. I ask that it be looked at and fixed.

The final issue is slightly unrelated to the point this morning is that the Government has also made grants available for businesses to put solar panels on the roofs of its properties to cut down the cost of electricity. If the property is rented, the landlord or property owner cannot apply because he is not the business owner, and the business owner cannot apply because he does not own the premises. Again, there is a lacuna or anomaly there where nobody wins. Perhaps the Minister of State can shed some light on this.

Thomas Byrne (Meath East, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Gabhaim buíochas leis an Teachta as an ábhar seo a ardú ar maidin.

As Deputy Stanton is aware, the power up grant scheme was announced in the budget to deliver a grant of €4,000 to eligible businesses right around the country. The scheme follows the success of the increased cost of business, ICOB, scheme which has paid out more than €244 million to 75,000 SMEs, including 39,000 SMEs in the retail and hospitality sector. The power up grant was introduced in recognition of the difficulties that businesses in the retail and hospitality sector continue to face. Businesses in those sectors that received a second grant under the ICOB scheme are in line to receive an energy grant of €4,000 under power up. Local authorities that are administering the scheme have emailed relevant businesses in the hospitality and retail sectors that received the second ICOB payment with information on how to register. In order to get payments to businesses before the end of the year, the registration period is short, so I would urge eligible businesses to register before the 8 November deadline.

Deputy Stanton specifically asked about landlord and tenants, and the Minister, Deputy Burke, has informed me that the criteria for the power up grant are aligned with the increased cost of business scheme. Businesses that are tenants and received the second payment under the increased cost of business scheme can register as long as they are ratepayers. A tenant who pays his or her rates to the landlord, who then pays the local authority, is not eligible. The person running the business must be the ratepayer. While the Minister is aware that some businesses have entered into arrangements with their landlords whereby the landlord pays the rates for his or her tenants, the legal position is that tenants whose rent incorporates their rates obligation, which is remitted by the landlord, cannot be deemed to be ratepayers.

The Minister recognises the issues the Deputy has raised, however, as stated, there are legal reasons for not including tenants who pay rates through their landlord. The Deputy will appreciate that it would be inappropriate and potentially counterproductive for the Minister to attempt to interfere with existing commercial arrangements between small businesses and their landlords in the context of any business grant scheme. The priority has been and continues to be to ensure that as many businesses as possible in the hospitality and retail sectors, which are facing great difficulties due to the increased costs associated with running a business, receive the money as quickly as possible. Again, I urge businesses which received the second ICOB grant to register by 8 November. Businesses that are having difficulty registering should contact their local authority directly.

David Stanton (Cork East, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I thank the Minister of State for his response. I understand exactly what is being said here, but I will quote to the Minister of State from the frequently asked questions on the Department website. Under the question "What is the eligibility for the grant?" the response states that: "Your business must be a commercially trading entity currently operating from a property that is commercial rateable." It does not say that the business owner has to be paying the rates. The rates are being paid. I understand the criteria to encourage people to pay rates and acknowledge people who actually pay rates, but these people have been paying their rates albeit indirectly, and now they are being penalised massively because of it. I ask and plead with the Department officials, who I know are listening to this debate this morning, to find a way so that if the rates have been paid, the grant is allowed to be paid to the business owner who is struggling. It should not be beyond the bounds of human ingenuity to allow that to happen.

There is another issue I wish to bring up with the Minister of State and Department this morning. In some instances, people did not for whatever reason apply for the increased cost of business, ICOB, grant. They forgot about it and did not do it or were away and missed the deadline. I understand they also now cannot apply for the power-up grant because part of the criteria is that they must have received a second payment of the ICOB. Again, it should not be beyond the bounds of possibility for the Department to find a way to allow these people to actually do that. The date of 8 November is a tight deadline. Perhaps one thing to do would be to move that and give it another week.

It is hugely important that the Department has some kind of helpline so people can ring up if they run into these blockages. The local authorities are saying it is not their problem and that they are only administering the scheme. There is nobody to talk to, however. The Department could have a helpline people could ring to talk to a human and say they have a problem they wish to discuss to find a resolution. Getting back to my main point, however, if the rates have been paid honestly, fairly and upfront, even though it is indirectly, surely we can find a way to make the money available to the business that actually made the money available, even though it was done through the landlord.

Thomas Byrne (Meath East, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I thank the Deputy very much. As I said, the reasons I have stated are the reasons the Minister has given. I will certainly forward the issues the Deputy raised directly to the Minister. He does recognise these issues. Any business that is having difficulty registering for the grant should certainly contact their local authority, which has the responsibility for administering this. On the bigger picture, however, I will certainly pass the Deputy's comments to the Minister.