Paul Murphy (Dublin South West, RISE)
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4. To ask the Minister for Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth if Tusla has stopped using the services of a company (details supplied); if so, when it stopped; to provide details of payments to the company in 2024; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [43567/24]

Paul Murphy (Dublin South West, RISE)
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Has Tusla stopped using the services of Supervised Access Ireland? I spoke about this in the Dáil last week when we were making statements on child protection. There are a number of serious issues with Supervised Access Ireland, including the treatment of workers and the overcharging of parents using its services. It seems that Supervised Access Ireland received a fair bit of money in 2024. It seemed a lot over the period in which its services had apparently been used.

Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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Following issues with this service provider, Tusla's director of services issued a direction to all regional chief officers on 15 January of this year to stop using the services of this company. Tusla informed my Department on 10 September that one Tusla local area inadvertently re-engaged this particular service. The service was wrongly engaged for supervised access where another funded agency was not in a position to provide the service required. The company was engaged by Tusla on three dates in September and one in October.

Paul Murphy (Dublin South West, RISE)
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Was that in 2024?

Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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Yes, it was this year. Tusla has advised that this arrangement ceased on 8 October this year. Two children in a sibling group availed of this service for supervised access in one local area. It was one family. This company supervised four visits. I want to make it clear that this is not acceptable and should not have happened. We have raised the issue directly with Tusla.

The spend on this company in 2024 was €101,986. The vast majority of this was payment for services in 2023. Tusla has assured my Department that this company is not currently being used and will not be used again in the future and that all Tusla areas are aware of this direction. As a result of the engagement on 10 September this year and the information about this inadvertent use of the service, my Department is again in contact with Tusla to absolutely confirm that this particular service provider is not being used in any area of the country.

Paul Murphy (Dublin South West, RISE)
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I have two follow-up questions. Does the Minister know whether any other State body continues to have contracts with this company? I do not have the information in front of me but, as far as I know, even after Tusla had stopped using this service, with the exception of the unit that continued to do so, another arm of the State was continuing to use the company's services.

On the broader issue, does the Minister accept that there is a need for a public supervised access service as exists in other European countries? When I came across this issue, I was shocked that the State, through the courts, mandates that the only way people may see their kids is through supervised access but does not provide any mechanism through which that can happen. People have to go to these private companies, which really have them over a barrel and are able to charge extortionate rates. In this particular company, gross overcharging was taking place and workers were being mistreated. Does the Minister accept the need for a public supervised access service?

Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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I always have a preference for the public over the private, particularly in the area of child law and child protection. It is a real concern to me that, because of Tusla's past deficits in recruitment, it is too reliant on private sector providers, whether for supervised access, residential services or fostering services. That is why I have put a lot of investment into Tusla. More than €1 billion is now invested in Tusla every year. I prioritised investment so that it can grow the State apparatus. We have put more money into the foster care allowance so we can keep more foster carers in the public sector. That is my position. My position is always to favour the public over the private, including in the area of supervised access. I cannot give the Deputy an absolute answer on other State bodies that may use these services. Tusla certainly raised its concerns about this particular organisation with the HSE when it gave that direction in February of this year.

Catherine Connolly (Galway West, Independent)
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I inadvertently forgot that Deputy Claire Kerrane has the next question. We will then move on to Deputy Ó Cathasaigh.