Dáil debates

Thursday, 17 October 2024

Ceisteanna Eile - Other Questions

Air Navigation Orders

11:10 am

Photo of Matt CarthyMatt Carthy (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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52. To ask the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport the total number of flights that he is aware of that have illegally trafficked weapons of war through Ireland; the details of same; the munitions which have been illegally transported; the response of his Department to such; and if the Department has reported a criminal breach of Irish law to An Garda Síochána. [42029/24]

Photo of Catherine ConnollyCatherine Connolly (Galway West, Independent)
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74. To ask the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport further to Parliamentary Question No. 264 of 9 September 2024, the steps he is taking on foot of reports that aircraft carrying munitions of war operated in sovereign Irish airspace without exemptions, given that the air transportation of munitions of war across State airspace without an exemption is an indictable offence; the number, carriers or operators, origin, destination and volume of munitions on such flights identified to date, in tabular form; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [41699/24]

Photo of Paul MurphyPaul Murphy (Dublin South West, RISE)
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79. To ask the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport the steps he has taken to stop overflights carrying weapons to Israel; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [42116/24]

Photo of Matt CarthyMatt Carthy (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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88. To ask the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport the standard operating procedure of his Department, and-or agencies under his aegis, should he or they become aware that an aircraft is currently transiting sovereign airspace with undeclared weapons of war. [42030/24]

Photo of Paul MurphyPaul Murphy (Dublin South West, RISE)
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92. To ask the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport the action he will take against airlines illegally overflying the State which are carrying weapons to Israel; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [42115/24]

Photo of Duncan SmithDuncan Smith (Dublin Fingal, Labour)
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110. To ask the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport for an update on his Department's work to identify and stop any overflights of arms shipments destined for Israel; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [41982/24]

Photo of Gino KennyGino Kenny (Dublin Mid West, People Before Profit Alliance)
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111. To ask the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport if he is aware of media reports that aircraft carrying weaponry from the US to Israel are continuing to fly through Irish airspace; the action he has taken to end such flights since this first came to light in August 2024; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [42108/24]

Photo of Matt CarthyMatt Carthy (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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The Minister previously gave commitments that Irish airspace was not being used to transport weapons bound for Israel. He now knows that not to be the case. He mentioned some ambiguity earlier. I put it to him that there should be no ambiguity at this stage. What is the total number of flights through Irish sovereign airspace that the Minister is aware of that have been used to illegally traffic weapons of war destined for use by the IDF and other Israeli military forces?

Photo of Eamon RyanEamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
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I propose to take Questions Nos. 52, 74, 79, 88, 92, 110 and 111 together.

In my earlier answer, I outlined the requirement to receive an exemption to carry munitions of war on civil aircraft in Irish sovereign territory or on Irish-registered aircraft wherever they are operating. I outlined the two categories the majority of granted exemptions fall into. I also outlined the difference between Irish-controlled and Irish sovereign airspace. I wish now to provide some detail on the complexity of international aviation, with a focus on what are referred to as transit rights, which comprise overflights and stops for non-traffic purposes, for example, refuelling or crew change.

The Chicago Convention 1944 and its annexes provide the framework that governs the safe operation of international aviation. Over 190 states are contracting parties to this convention, Ireland included. Article 35 of this convention sets out the requirement that munitions of war must not be carried on civil aircraft without the express permission of all states overflown and landed in.

Article 5 of the convention also provides for the right of overflights and non-traffic stops, without first obtaining permission to do so for non-scheduled flights. Similarly, the International Air Services Transit Agreement provides for the same rights for scheduled air services.

The provisions I have outlined have been provided for in Irish law, the import of which means that my Department does not receive prior notification of overflights by operators of states which are parties to such agreements, save where there is an intention to carry munitions of war.

Flight plans can be submitted up to three hours prior to operations. These are submitted to Eurocontrol, an international organisation tasked with the managing the capacity of European airspace. Once validated, flight plans are then directed to the relevant air navigation service provider with responsibility for the airspace the operator wishes to use. In Ireland, that provider is AirNav Ireland. Flight plans will contain a range of information such as the type of operation, the time and points of origin and destination and any technical or fuel stopsen route. There is no specific requirement for a flight plan to include information on munitions of war being carried.

This information serves to illustrate to the House that unless an air operator has sought an exemption to carry munitions of war, there is no mechanism by which my Department will have knowledge of the type of cargo that is being carried on such overflights. As I have outlined the mechanism governing overflights, I can advise that it would be unusual for my Department to receive information indicating that an aircraft which is already overflying is carrying munitions of war. Such a scenario has not arisen in the past. It would be a complex matter to deal with in real time, and obviously safety considerations would be paramount. Should such a scenario arise, my officials would engage immediately with the air operator concerned to confirm the detail of what is being carried. Consideration would then be given to the most appropriate course of action.

The purpose of the recently communicated notice to airmen, or NOTAM, was to serve as a reminder of our legislative requirements to pilots-in-command. I await the completion of these examinations by my officials. The actions to be taken then will have to be determined in accordance with the provisions of the legislation. An offence is provided for in Irish law and my officials are exploring the legal powers which regulate this matter. Any potential action must be supported by robust evidence.

This is a unique situation and the legislation in question dates from the 1970s and 1980s. This legislation is already being examined in the context of considering the introduction of a system of random inspections, as signalled by me in the summer. Amendments to address any deficiencies brought to light by recent events will also be the subject of this consideration.

To summarise, we operate under international law and with our European colleagues to make sure we uphold our right that no munitions cross Irish airspace or land in Irish airports without the express permission of the Irish Government. This was the case prior to any of this information raised during the autumn period by The Ditch. We said we had to strengthen and enhance our ability to search, sample and sanction and that is what I intend to do going back to the Government, including any evidence presented. We need to see the proper evidence and we have contacted all the airlines cited in the media information provided to try to assess in each individual case what the reality was.

We are united in this House. We all agree that we do not want to facilitate the carriage of munitions, particularly if they are engaged or used in, or enable, what is an ongoing tragedy and travesty in Gaza, south Lebanon, the West Bank and the Middle East. No one seeks to approve, condone or accept any such support, but we have to make sure what we do in regulating that is in compliance with international law and gives real certainty and clarity. There are a lot of overflights, many of which, as I set out in the Department's response, are in real-time situations where there is not absolute certainty about what the aircraft is carrying. We need to enhance our ability to have that certainty and that is what I intend to do, learning from what has been seen and has happened in recent weeks and months.

11:20 am

Photo of Matt CarthyMatt Carthy (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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To me, that response says "long finger" and "procrastinate". The Minister has been in government for five years and throughout that time there have been serious concerns. One is in respect of the use of Irish airports, particularly Shannon Airport, and that there could be a facilitation of the transportation of munitions bound for war. Not a single inspection had taken place in this Government's term.

Now we find out - not through any efforts on the part of the Minister's Department but from a media organisation - that it is very likely that Irish sovereign airspace has been abused in a way that runs contrary to both international and domestic law. The Minister's response is that his officials are looking into it. By the time they come back with a substantive response, the Minister will be out of government and it will be somebody else's responsibility.

I put it to the Minister that this is not good enough. It is a very serious matter. The Minister is correct that this House is largely united in saying we do not want to have any hand, act or part in Israel's genocide in Gaza or its ongoing flagrant breaches of international law. Most Members of this House cannot do anything about that issue but the Minister can. He could have but did not. The articles in The Ditch first started to appear in August. In response to a parliamentary question I tabled, the Minister stated that The Ditch had not furnished him with the information that formed the basis of its articles. He did not say in that response that he had not actually sought it. Will the Minister confirm that at this point there is nothing in any of the articles in The Ditch , which point to specific individual flights that traversed Irish airspace with munitions of war ultimately bound for the IDF, that he can refute? Will he confirm that each of the operators in question has been instructed that it is not permitted to traverse Irish airspace until this matter is resolved? That should be the first step, at a minimum.

Photo of Catherine ConnollyCatherine Connolly (Galway West, Independent)
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It is a pity there is so little time and I am a stickler for time. We are clearly colluding with genocide when we do not conduct inspections, random or otherwise, of planes landing in Shannon Airport. As we know through The Ditch and other sources and dedicated people on the ground, a number of American soldiers have gone through that airport. The Minister set out the provisions of the Chicago Convention and referred to another agreement. He told us it is clearly against the law to carry weapons and arms in civilian aircraft. I am referring to the Americans doing that. What has the Minister done to ensure we are not breaking the law? Will he tell us that? What inspections have been carried out? What investigations has he carried out? When will the investigation he is currently undertaking be completed given the urgency of the matter?

Photo of Eamon RyanEamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
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On a regular basis, we uphold the law by refusing applications for munitions to be either carried through Irish airspace or land in Irish airports. It is a relatively small number. Each year, on a routine basis, the Minister for Transport will assess any such application and, on a regular basis, say "No" under international law and under our rights as set out in the Chicago Convention. It is important that we uphold the rights in international law and get it right in international law, so we have that power and capability.

The response to the concerns people had preceded what was published in The Ditch. As I said, earlier this summer before any of that analysis or information became available, I went into the Seanad and made it explicit and clear that we needed to strengthen our legal provisions and give us enhanced capability, first, to search aircraft on a random basis when on the tarmac in Irish airports; second, and difficult as this is, I believe it can be achieved through international law, to sample what the manifests are in overflights so we can check whether an application should have been made, and it may not have been made; and, third, to strengthen and improve our ability to sanction in that regard.

This Government was steering in that direction, publicly and had committed in these Houses to do so, before any of that information was revealed in The Ditch. In response to that information, we reiterated and put out an international restatement of our insistence that any carrier using Irish airspace or landing in Irish airports carrying munitions had to, under international law, apply to do so. We contacted every single one of the air carriers cited in those articles and are still looking for further details from them.

It has taken some time, longer than I would like, but we are persistent in getting and collating that information. Initial sight of that information would indicate that a number of the flights suggested were not in breach of international law and were not carrying munitions as might be defined by the Chicago Convention. Therefore, we have to be careful about sweeping statements and real certainty when the evidence needs to be considered in much more detail. We will continue to do that and more importantly, enhance the legislation so that we can provide assurance to the Irish public that yes, we are upholding our rights in that way. It is not easy, but it is something to which we are absolutely committed, particularly because of the circumstances of what is happening in Gaza, Lebanon and the West Bank and to back up the case and stand we have taken in the International Court of Justice and in supporting the International Criminal Court and UNRWA, financially and immediately, in the most important way in the middle of that crisis. There is no lack of commitment; far from it, t is the exact opposite, for us to play our part in every way we can to halt that particular war and the atrocities that are occurring on a daily basis. We need to do that through international law if we are to have real strength in our impact.

11:30 am

Photo of Matt CarthyMatt Carthy (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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For all of those actions on the part of the Irish Government, if we want to be generous and describe them as such, here is what we know for sure. Israel could not be conducting a genocide in Gaza, carrying out its relentless attacks on the West Bank or be engaged in its invasion of Lebanon, including putting Irish peacekeeping members of the UNIFIL mission at risk, were it if not for the arms and munitions with which it has been supplied. We have had a number of very positive, strong statements from members of Government, but when it counts, this Government has been falling short every time. We had the ludicrous situation where the Taoiseach was sitting in the Oval Office and did not put the very particular demand of the Irish people to the US President that the US needs stop arming and financing Israel. He said it was not for him to tell a country what to do. Therefore, even if we take that at face value, which I do not, by the way, we have to look at what is happening here.

The Minister said that some of the information is not correct. Will he state which information published in The Ditch articles is not correct? How can he come to the determination that some provisions in those articles are not practical, yet he cannot come to a determination in respect of them all? Let me ask the Minister this very clearly. Have any munitions of war to his knowledge been transported through Irish sovereign airspace? Is the Minister satisfied that this has indeed been the case, despite the fact that he was very open in saying that there were absolutely no circumstances in which it was happening? Previously, the Minister issued a tweet, in fact, to give assurance to the Irish people. That tweet, and the assertions in this House that this action simply was not happening, have now been challenged. The Minister has not been able to say that is actually not true. Therefore, we have to assume that, in fact, Irish sovereign airspace has been used for that purpose. We need to know what the Minister is going to do about that.

Photo of Catherine ConnollyCatherine Connolly (Galway West, Independent)
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While the Minister is telling us he is going to search, sample and sanction, he has given us no details of that. In an earlier reply, he said he was bringing a memo to Government with regard to searching, sanctioning and sampling. When is that going to happen? Why has it not happened before this? The Minister stands here and tells us that he wants to reassure the public. The only way to reassure the public is to stop reliance on the reassurance of the American Government, because they are our friends. That is what we have been told repeatedly in this Dáil.

I want to pay tribute to the people on the ground who have peacefully protested and shown their concerns, who have ended up before the courts and in jail, and who have begged us to inspect the planes and to stop taking the reassurances. When will the search, sampling and sanction happen? Will it happen before this Government falls? What steps are necessary to ensure that? Why have they not been taken before given that America is utterly complicit in genocide of the Palestinian people, which as now extended into Lebanon?

Photo of Eamon RyanEamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
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I was in New York at the United Nations General Assembly where I was asked to present the Irish Government's position in an initiative we are taking with Arab and other European states to advance the two-state solution. At the sidelines of that meeting, I had the great privilege of meeting the Prime Minister of Palestine. He could not have been more supportive of what the Irish Government and Irish people have been doing. He could not be more explicit as to how we have actually stood up and tried to protect the rights of their people. I heard it previously. I remember going on an Oireachtas visit to meet the head of the Arab League, who similarly spoke about what the Irish soldiers have done in south Lebanon. At the moment of greatest risk, when villages were subject to attack, the Irish soldiers stood on the bridge and said, "You shall not pass”. He said they would never forget that. That is what our soldiers are doing today, putting themselves in danger and standing up for what the Irish people believe, that is, international peace and the rule of law. I cannot go through every particular article or different example, but I have asked my Department to do so, and it is following up to check every single incident mentioned. I do not refute that is an issue of concern. If we find there are munitions being carried that way, that is something we will take with the utmost seriousness and to which we will have to respond. The response is legislative, and that does take time.

I will cite what I heard Senator Black say yesterday. She made the valid point that even now, when advancing the occupied territories Bill, there is a realisation that we cannot introduce legislation, particularly in this most complex area, that of aviation, of international law. We need some time to work out the complexities as to how we would apply-----

Photo of Catherine ConnollyCatherine Connolly (Galway West, Independent)
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The legislation is there-----

Photo of Eamon RyanEamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
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-----better searches, better sampling and better sanctions. That will not be delivered in the lifetime of this Government but absolutely, it is my intention to go back to my Government colleagues when I have the information provided by the analysis being done by the Department to report on this issue, and also-----

Photo of Catherine ConnollyCatherine Connolly (Galway West, Independent)
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When will that be?

Photo of Eamon RyanEamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
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In the coming weeks. At the same time, I will indicate what progress my Department, which has been working on this for some six months now, is making on the complex issues of how we improve our legal powers in this area, which we need to do. That does take a certain amount of time because we need to get it right. In the interim, we will do everything we can. I have already put out a notice to all carriers reiterating and repeating our rights under international law that no munitions would be carried without the express approval of the Irish Government. That is something we do and will continue to do an ongoing basis.

Question No. 53 taken with Written Answers.