Dáil debates

Tuesday, 15 October 2024

3:10 pm

Photo of Seán Ó FearghaílSeán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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I call the Government Chief Whip to move the proposal for this week's business, in accordance with Standing Order 35.

Photo of Hildegarde NaughtonHildegarde Naughton (Galway West, Fine Gael)
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I move:

Tuesday's business shall be: - Motion re Approval of Appointment of Members of the Legal Services Regulatory Authority (without debate)

- Motion re Referral to Joint Committee of proposed approval by Dáil Éireann of the Horse and Greyhound Racing Fund Regulations 2024 (without debate, and any division claimed to be taken on Wednesday immediately following the Motion re Extension of the Civil Law (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act, but no earlier than 6 p.m.)

- Motion re Leave to Introduce Supplementary Estimates [Votes 20 to 22, 24 to 26, 29, 32, 34, 37, 38 and 40] (without debate)

- Motion re Proposed Approval by Dáil Éireann of the Social Welfare (Consolidated Claims, Payments and Control) (Amendment) (no. XX) (Jobseeker’s Pay-Related Benefit) Regulations 2024 (without debate) - Statements re Child Protection (not to exceed 1 hour and 42 minutes)

- Social Welfare Bill 2024 (Second Stage) (to conclude within 1 hour and 57 minutes and any division claimed to be taken immediately prior to Committee Stage on Wednesday)

Tuesday's private members' business shall be the Motion re Disability Services, selected by Sinn Féin. Wednesday's business shall be: - Motion re Proposed approval by Dáil Éireann of the Remediation of Dwellings Damaged by the Use of Defective Concrete Blocks Act 2022 (Section 11) Order 2024 (without debate)

- Motion re Proposed approval by Dáil Éireann of the Remediation of Dwellings Damaged by the Use of Defective Concrete Blocks Act 2022 (Designation of Sligo County Council) Order 2024 (without debate)

- Finance Bill 2024 (Second Stage) (to conclude after the first round)

- Motion re Extension of the Civil Law (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2021 (to conclude within 57 minutes)

- Social Welfare Bill 2024 (Committee and remaining Stages) (to commence no earlier than 6 p.m. and to conclude within 60 minutes)

- Gambling Regulation Bill 2022 (Amendments from the Seanad) (to conclude within 2 hours and 30 minutes)

Wednesday's private members' business shall be the Motion re Vat Rate for the Hospitality Sector, selected by the Independent Group. Thursday's business shall be Second Stage of the Maternity Protection Bill 2024 [Seanad] (to adjourn either at 6 p.m. or after 4 hours and 16 minutes, whichever is the later, and any division claimed to be taken immediately prior to Committee Stage on Wednesday 23rd October, 2024).

Thursday evening business shall be the Motion re Report entitled "Final Report of the Joint Committee on Assisted Dying”.

Proposed Arrangements for this week’s business:

In relation to Tuesday’s business, it is proposed that: 1. the ordinary routine of business as contained in Schedule 3 to Standing Orders shall be modified to the following extent:
(i) the Dáil may sit later than 10.32 p.m.; and

(ii) the time allotted to Government business shall be extended in accordance with the arrangements for that business, with consequential effect on the commencement times for the items following in the ordinary routine of business, namely, private members’ business, Parliamentary Questions to the Minister for the Environment, Climate and Communications, and topical issues;
2. the proceedings on the Motion re Approval of Appointment of Members of the Legal Services Regulatory Authority shall be taken without debate;

3. the proceedings on the Motion re Referral to Joint Committee of proposed approval by Dáil Éireann of the Horse and Greyhound Racing Fund Regulations 2024 shall be taken without debate, and any division claimed thereon shall be taken on the conclusion of the Motion re Extension of the Civil Law (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2021 on Wednesday, but in any event, no earlier than 6 p.m.;

4. the proceedings on the Motion re Leave to Introduce Supplementary Estimates [Votes 20 to 22, 24 to 26, 29, 32, 34, 37, 38 and 40] shall be taken without debate;

5. the proceedings on the Motion re Proposed Approval by Dáil Éireann of the Social Welfare (Consolidated Claims, Payments and Control) (Amendment) (no. XX) (Jobseeker’s Pay-Related Benefit) Regulations 2024 shall be taken without debate;

6. the Statements re Child Protection shall not exceed 1 hour and 42 minutes, and the following arrangements shall apply thereto:
(i) the order of speaking and allocation of time shall be as follows:-
- opening statement by a Minister or Minister of State - 20 minutes;

- statement by representative of Sinn Féin - 20 minutes;

- statements by representatives of the Labour Party, Social Democrats, People-Before-Profit-Solidarity, the Regional Group, the Rural Independent Group and the Independent Group - 10 minutes per party or group; and

- statements by non-aligned members – 2 minutes; and
(ii) members may share time; and
7. in relation to the proceedings on Second Stage of the Social Welfare Bill 2024:
(i) the first speaking round shall be in accordance with the arrangements agreed by¯
(a) the Order of the Dáil of 30th July, 2020, for Second Stage, save that the times shall be halved in each case, and

(b) the Resolution of the Dáil of 20th September, 2023, in relation to 2 minutes for non-aligned members; and
(ii) on the conclusion of the first speaking round, a Minister or Minister of State shall be called upon to make a speech in reply, which shall not exceed 10 minutes, whereupon proceedings shall be brought to a conclusion: Provided that any division claimed on the Second Stage proceedings shall be taken immediately prior to Committee Stage on Wednesday, but not before 6 p.m.
In relation to Wednesday's business, it is proposed that: 1. the ordinary routine of business as contained in Schedule 3 to Standing Orders shall be modified to the following extent:
(i) the Dáil may sit later than 9.30 p.m.;

(ii) the only Parliamentary Questions to the Taoiseach pursuant to Standing Order 46(1) which may be answered shall be those under the aegis of the Government Chief Whip, with consequential effect on the time for commencement of the SOS pursuant to Standing Order 25(1), and on the commencement times for the items following in the ordinary routine of business; and

(iii) the weekly division time may be taken later than 8.45 p.m. and shall in any event be taken on the conclusion of proceedings on the amendments from the Seanad to the Gambling Regulation Bill 2022;
2. the proceedings on the Motion re Proposed approval by Dáil Éireann of the Remediation of Dwellings Damaged by the Use of Defective Concrete Blocks Act 2022 (Section 11) Order 2024 shall be taken without debate;

3. the proceedings on Motion re Proposed approval by Dáil Éireann of the Remediation of Dwellings Damaged by the Use of Defective Concrete Blocks Act 2022 (Designation of Sligo County Council) Order 2024 shall be taken without debate;

4. in relation to the proceedings on Second Stage of the Finance Bill 2024, on the conclusion of the first speaking round in accordance with the arrangements agreed by Order of the Dáil of 30th July, 2020, for Second Stage and the Resolution of the Dáil of 20th September, 2023, providing for two minutes for non-aligned members, a Minister or Minister of State shall be called upon to make a speech in reply, which shall not exceed 10 minutes, whereupon proceedings shall be brought to a conclusion;

5. the proceedings on the Motion re Extension of the Civil Law (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2021 shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion after 57 minutes, and the following arrangements shall apply thereto:
(i)the order of speaking and allocation of time shall be as follows:-
- opening speech by a Minister or Minister of State - 10 minutes;
- speech by representative of Sinn Féin - 10 minutes;
- speeches by representatives of the Labour Party, Social Democrats, People-Before-Profit-Solidarity, the Regional Group, the Rural Independent Group and the Independent Group - 5 minutes per party or group;

- speeches by non-aligned members – 2 minutes; and

- a speech in response by the Minister – 5 minutes; and
(ii) members may share time;
6. the proceedings on Committee and remaining Stages of the Social Welfare Bill 2024 shall be taken no earlier than 6 p.m. and shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion after 1 hour by one question which shall be put from the Chair, and which shall, in relation to amendments, include only those set down or accepted by the Minister for Social Protection; and

7. the proceedings on the amendments from the Seanad to the Gambling Regulation Bill 2022 shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion after 2 hours and 30 minutes, and any amendments from the Seanad not disposed of shall be decided by one question which shall be put from the Chair, and which shall, in relation to amendments to the Seanad amendments, include only those set down or accepted by the Minister for Justice. In relation to Thursday's business, it is proposed that: 1. the ordinary routine of business as contained in Schedule 3 to Standing Orders shall be modified to the following extent:
(i) topical issues pursuant to Standing Order 37 may be taken earlier than 7.24 p.m. and shall in any event be taken on the adjournment of proceedings on Second Stage of the Maternity Protection Bill 2024 [Seanad], or where those proceedings conclude within the allocated time, on the conclusion thereof; and

(ii) the proceedings on the Motion re Report entitled "Final Report of the Joint Committee on Assisted Dying" may be taken earlier than 8.12 p.m., and shall in any event be taken on the conclusion of topical issues, with consequential effect on the time for the adjournment of the Dáil;
2. the proceedings on the Second Stage of the Maternity Protection Bill 2024 [Seanad] shall, if not previously concluded, be interrupted and stand adjourned either at 6 p.m. or after 4 hours and 16 minutes, whichever is the later, and any division claimed thereon shall be taken immediately prior to Committee Stage on Wednesday 23rd October, 2024; and

3. notwithstanding the Order of the Dáil of 10th September, 2020, the arrangements for the proceedings on the Motion re Report entitled "Final Report of the Joint Committee on Assisted Dying" shall be as provided for in Standing Order 102(4), save that the concluding response by a Minister or Minister of State shall not exceed 5 minutes.

Photo of Seán Ó FearghaílSeán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Is that agreed?

Photo of Pádraig Mac LochlainnPádraig Mac Lochlainn (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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It is not agreed. There is a motion to be decided without debate before the Dáil tomorrow night to increase the cap on the defective concrete blocks scheme by 10%. The difficulty is large numbers are engaged in the scheme - the Minister, Deputy O'Brien, is here for this - who will be short tens of thousands of euro. In some cases, it is more than €100,000. It is crucial that they can avail of this cap too. My understanding is it is the Minister's intention to make it possible for them to avail of the cap but it requires an amendment of the 2022 legislation. I appeal for a timeframe - if it could happen this week or, at the very latest, next week. We need an amendment to the 2022 legislation to make sure families who are short huge amounts of money can avail of this increase.

It would be very cruel if that does not happen before the Taoiseach calls an election. Please make it happen as soon as possible.

3:20 pm

Photo of Ivana BacikIvana Bacik (Dublin Bay South, Labour)
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The Labour Party has drafted legislation, as the Taoiseach may know, to make unincorporated associations accountable for paying redress for abuse that has been committed by members or those under the power of those organisations. The need for this Bill was brought to the fore by the recent scoping inquiry on sexual abuse in schools but, of course, it would apply not just to religious orders but also to other unincorporated associations, including political parties and others. On 3 October, when I raised this matter with the Taoiseach, he said he would refer that Bill to the Attorney General and I believe he has confirmed that since.

Photo of Simon HarrisSimon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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Yes.

Photo of Ivana BacikIvana Bacik (Dublin Bay South, Labour)
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Can the Taoiseach advise if he can provide an update on this before the general election and will we see this Bill capable of being brought into law?

Photo of Gary GannonGary Gannon (Dublin Central, Social Democrats)
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To the Taoiseach, I say that nobody has a monopoly on compassion for any tragedy to be discussed in this House, no less one that incorporates a genocide that is being inflicted on the people of Gaza, so let us just park that issue there.

Equally, few of us have had the opportunity that the Taoiseach had in the past week to stare square in the eye the people who are arming those perpetrating the genocide. Two things the Taoiseach failed to mention were first, genocide, and, second, the sale of arms.

The Taoiseach has brought to the House the opportunity to bring forward the occupied territories Bill ,which is, of course, welcome but we are very close to the calling of a general election. The Taoiseach said he will engage with the Opposition next week. What does that mean in reality? He said that there will be amendments to the Bill. As the Taoiseach is in government, why does he offer this faux attempt at a sort of reunification of the House at this point? He can tell the House what amendments are necessary, whether the Government will bring them and when we can pass them, because the situation is too urgent for any more equivocation.

Photo of Paul MurphyPaul Murphy (Dublin South West, RISE)
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First, I wish to object to the use of a number of guillotines this week. Second, I make the point strongly that we need a debate or a question-and-answer session this week on the issue of munitions flying through Irish sovereign airspace. We have been requesting this debate, as have others, since the Dáil came back and all the evidence suggests that munitions continued to fly through Irish airspace on their way to the Israeli army to be used in the horrific, barbaric genocide that is unfolding before our eyes involving the burning of people to death while they are connected to intensive care units. This is absolutely horrific. We know that the number of airlines involved in this has expanded. FedEx, Lufthansa and Delta Air Lines are the ones which have been added. The Taoiseach told us earlier, and this is the answer we get every single time, that permissions are required to fly through and that no permissions have been granted, as if that is the end of the story. That is far from the end of the story, however, because the point is that the permissions have not been granted and yet the munitions have still gone through. What are we going to do about it? Weeks and weeks are passing and at the very least, we need a debate about this issue this week.

Photo of Mattie McGrathMattie McGrath (Tipperary, Independent)
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There are thousands of restaurant owners and small business people outside the Dáil, including pub owners, hotel owners and representatives of the catering industry. This is a vital industry to rural Ireland and it is a slap in the teeth for them that the Government totally turned its back on them and it did not reduce the VAT rate to 9% in the recent budget. I am appealing now, on behalf of the Rural Independent Group, that we have a proper debate on this and that something be done. There are 270,000 people employed in this business, 69% of whom are outside of Dublin. This is a vital part of our rural economy and to our recovery here also in this country. They expected to get some lifeline. Already, 615 restaurants have closed in this year alone, that is, over the past 12 months. I and they cannot imagine this. They are completely flabbergasted that the Government did not give them some sop in the budget to try to keep them alive. They needed a lifeline and they did not get it. We are appealing here now for a debate on this issue and that the Government make some amendments in the Finance Bill. I also object to that Bill being guillotined, as well as the guillotining of the Social Welfare Bill. The Taoiseach is seeking short-term electoral gain rather than securing businesses, many of which are family businesses of second and third generation, which give of their time and provide employment. The employees are also here with the restaurant owners today and this is a very serious situation for rural Ireland.

Photo of Thomas PringleThomas Pringle (Donegal, Independent)
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I also fully support the opposition to the guillotines that are being used this week. I also call for a debate on the occupied territories or on the transfer of munitions through Irish airspace to Israel. That is very urgent and pressing. The Government should recognise that it is happening at this stage and should do something about it.

Photo of Seán Ó FearghaílSeán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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As there is no one else, I call the Taoiseach to respond.

Photo of Simon HarrisSimon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Ceann Comhairle. Responding to Deputy Mac Lochlainn, the Minister, Deputy O'Brien, assures me that the changes that are being brought in with regard to that cap level will be retrospective to those within the scheme.

I want the Deputy's constituents to know that, and I know Deputy Pringle's bona fides on this. It will take a period of time to draft the amendment. I will ask the Minister to directly clarify with Deputy Pringle in relation to the timeline. Any changes that are made in relation that cap will be retrospective for those in this scheme.

3:30 pm

Photo of Pádraig Mac LochlainnPádraig Mac Lochlainn (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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Before the election. Will this be before the election?

Photo of Simon HarrisSimon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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I will have to ask the Minister to comment on the timeline.

Photo of Pádraig Mac LochlainnPádraig Mac Lochlainn (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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The Taoiseach has the control over that-----

Photo of Simon HarrisSimon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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I have control within constitutional parameters. I am not making light of a very serious issue and I do take that point. I will ask the Minister, Deputy O'Brien, to engage with the Deputy directly.

Deputy Bacik asked about legislation. I have asked the Attorney General to look at that. I will get the Deputy an update in this Dáil, yes. Let me see if I can get that update quite quickly. I am happy to engage with Deputy Bacik directly in relation to that.

The point I am making to Deputy Gannon - I do not have much time to be too expansive on this - is that there are serious issues with the current legislation, the occupied territories Bill, and that is fine as nobody suggests legislation that comes forward is perfect. The context has changed. It has been the advice of successive Attorney Generals - this is truth to the matter - that whether or not the Government wanted to pass the Bill it could not. The International Court of Justice, ICJ, has changed the context. Formal advices will be provided to the Government next week as to what that may look like. I am saying very honestly that we will then engage in good faith with the Opposition on what the next steps might look like. I would be in a position to maybe be more fulsome on this next week. With regard to Deputy Pringle's suggestion about being able to debate it in the Dáil or whether to have a briefing, or whatever is most appropriate, we are happy to do that.

On Deputy Murphy's suggestion, I understand that the Minister, Deputy Ryan, has agreed to have a debate and, I have been told by the Whip, is certainly happy to have a debate on that issue of munitions. The Minister is not here at the moment as he is attending the Energy Council. There are some transport questions this week that will be taken by the Minister of State, Deputy Lawless. I suggest we just work with the Minister. He will have that debate but he is not here at the moment as he is at the Energy Council. I am happy to schedule that.

I take seriously Deputy McGrath's points on the challenges facing the hospitality sector and its cost base. We can have a debate another time on some of the things we have done in trying to assist in that budget . From the point of view of the Dáil Order of Business this week there is significant time through a Private Members' motion being given to debate that issue this week. There will be an opportunity when we debate the Finance Bill to consider these matters too.

Photo of Seán Ó FearghaílSeán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Is the Order of Business agreed?

Deputies:

Not agreed.

Question put: "That the proposed arrangements for this week's business be agreed to"

The Dáil divided: Tá, 70; Níl, 50; Staon, 0.


Tellers: Tá, Deputies Hildegarde Naughton and Cormac Devlin; Níl, Deputies Pádraig Mac Lochlainn and Mattie McGrath.

Colm Brophy, James Browne, Richard Bruton, Colm Burke, Mary Butler, Thomas Byrne, Dara Calleary, Ciarán Cannon, Jack Chambers, Niall Collins, Patrick Costello, Michael Creed, Cathal Crowe, Cormac Devlin, Alan Dillon, Stephen Donnelly, Paschal Donohoe, Francis Noel Duffy, Bernard Durkan, Damien English, Alan Farrell, Frank Feighan, Joe Flaherty, Charles Flanagan, Seán Fleming, Norma Foley, Noel Grealish, Brendan Griffin, Simon Harris, Seán Haughey, Martin Heydon, Emer Higgins, Neasa Hourigan, Heather Humphreys, Paul Kehoe, John Lahart, James Lawless, Brian Leddin, Josepha Madigan, Catherine Martin, Steven Matthews, Paul McAuliffe, Charlie McConalogue, Helen McEntee, Aindrias Moynihan, Michael Moynihan, Hildegarde Naughton, Malcolm Noonan, Darragh O'Brien, Joe O'Brien, Jim O'Callaghan, James O'Connor, Willie O'Dea, Kieran O'Donnell, Patrick O'Donovan, Fergus O'Dowd, Roderic O'Gorman, Christopher O'Sullivan, Pádraig O'Sullivan, Marc Ó Cathasaigh, Éamon Ó Cuív, John Paul Phelan, Anne Rabbitte, Neale Richmond, Brendan Smith, Niamh Smyth, Ossian Smyth, David Stanton, Robert Troy, Leo Varadkar.

Níl

Chris Andrews, Ivana Bacik, Richard Boyd Barrett, John Brady, Martin Browne, Pat Buckley, Holly Cairns, Matt Carthy, Joan Collins, Catherine Connolly, Rose Conway-Walsh, Réada Cronin, Seán Crowe, David Cullinane, Pearse Doherty, Paul Donnelly, Dessie Ellis, Mairead Farrell, Gary Gannon, Johnny Guirke, Marian Harkin, Danny Healy-Rae, Brendan Howlin, Gino Kenny, Martin Kenny, Claire Kerrane, Pádraig Mac Lochlainn, Mattie McGrath, Denise Mitchell, Imelda Munster, Paul Murphy, Johnny Mythen, Gerald Nash, Cian O'Callaghan, Louise O'Reilly, Darren O'Rourke, Eoin Ó Broin, Ruairi Ó Murchú, Aengus Ó Snodaigh, Thomas Pringle, Maurice Quinlivan, Patricia Ryan, Seán Sherlock, Róisín Shortall, Bríd Smith, Duncan Smith, Peadar Tóibín, Pauline Tully, Mark Ward, Jennifer Whitmore.

Question declared carried.

3:45 pm

Photo of Matt CarthyMatt Carthy (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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Families of children with disabilities in County Monaghan are extremely frustrated by the way they have been treated by this Government. They describe their lives as a battle every day just to get the services they need. Monaghan needs a special school but Ministers continually point to a process without explaining what that process is or what criteria have led to the situation whereby Monaghan has no special school but similar counties have a number. Last June, the Taoiseach told me he would meet the campaigning families with local Oireachtas Members. Why has that meeting not taken place? The Taoiseach's office responded to me in August, saying that he was in the process of identifying a suitable date. Has that process concluded? Will the Taoiseach let us know when he will meet the families to hear first-hand the challenges they face as a result of the inaction of his Government in delivering the services their children need?

Photo of Simon HarrisSimon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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I will do my best to get through the many requests that the Deputy has made.

Photo of Matt CarthyMatt Carthy (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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Just to meet them. That is the request. Will the Taoiseach meet them?

Photo of Simon HarrisSimon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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I will, but I will also speak-----

Photo of Matt CarthyMatt Carthy (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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When?

Photo of Heather HumphreysHeather Humphreys (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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There is a process.

Photo of Paschal DonohoePaschal Donohoe (Dublin Central, Fine Gael)
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There is a process.

Photo of Matt CarthyMatt Carthy (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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What is the process?

Photo of Heather HumphreysHeather Humphreys (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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The Deputy was strong on process last night.

Photo of Paschal DonohoePaschal Donohoe (Dublin Central, Fine Gael)
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I thought you were all in favour of process.

Photo of Matt CarthyMatt Carthy (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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What is the process, Minister?

Photo of Simon HarrisSimon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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There is a serious-----

Photo of Matt CarthyMatt Carthy (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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The Minister has been in Cabinet for eight years. Where is the special school for Monaghan?

Photo of Heather HumphreysHeather Humphreys (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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The Deputy knows the process.

Photo of Simon HarrisSimon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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The Minister has done a great job in Cabinet and the people of Monaghan know that too.

Photo of Matt CarthyMatt Carthy (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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They have no special school. The Taoiseach promised to meet the families who are looking for it and has not done so.

Photo of Simon HarrisSimon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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They do know that. They will tell Deputy Carthy all about it soon too. May I answer the question?

Photo of Mattie McGrathMattie McGrath (Tipperary, Independent)
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The election is on.

Photo of Simon HarrisSimon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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There is a serious issue with the need for a special school in Monaghan. My understanding is that the Department and National Council for Special Education, NCSE, are currently working to finalise special school capacity for September 2025 and Monaghan will be addressed as part of that process. I will engage with that group directly.

Photo of Matt CarthyMatt Carthy (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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When?

Photo of Seán Ó FearghaílSeán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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I call Deputy Bacik.

Photo of Simon HarrisSimon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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I do not need to do it through Deputy Carthy. I can do it myself, thanks. It is a democracy.

Photo of Matt CarthyMatt Carthy (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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The Taoiseach committed to meet them in June. He clearly needs somebody's assistance.

Photo of Paschal DonohoePaschal Donohoe (Dublin Central, Fine Gael)
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Deputy Carthy is in bad form.

Photo of Simon HarrisSimon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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I do not need Deputy Carthy's assistance.

Photo of Seán Ó FearghaílSeán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Stop taking other people's time, please.

Photo of Paschal DonohoePaschal Donohoe (Dublin Central, Fine Gael)
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Deputy Carthy is in bad form today.

Photo of Matt CarthyMatt Carthy (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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The Taoiseach has promised the Dáil that he would meet the families.

Photo of Seán Ó FearghaílSeán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Please, Deputy. You are taking up other Members' time.

Photo of Matt CarthyMatt Carthy (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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Surely it is in order to ask him why that has not taken place and when it will take place.

3:50 pm

Photo of Seán Ó FearghaílSeán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Please, you are taking up other Members' time. I call Deputy Bacik.

Photo of Ivana BacikIvana Bacik (Dublin Bay South, Labour)
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It is some weeks since the budget but those locked out of securing housing are realising how little it does for them because house prices and rents are still going up and availability is not keeping pace with demand for homes. I know the Taoiseach will agree on this because we are all so aware of the chronic housing shortage and the impact it is having on so many people and communities. The Government's targets are too low and it is not even meeting its own targets for social and affordable housing. We have been promised revised upwards housing targets for many months but they still have not been published. Yesterday, Paul O'Donoghue wrote a very insightful piece in The Journal about the lack of an evidential basis for much of the housing policy the Government has introduced. He questioned the effectiveness of the housing assistance payment, HAP, the landlord tax relief and the help-to-buy scheme and pointed out that these schemes lack an evidential basis for successful outcomes. Does the Taoiseach concede that Housing for All has failed, that it is based on faulty policies and, in particular, that the targets need to be revised upwards to ensure increased supply? When will the Government publish those revised upwards targets?

Photo of Simon HarrisSimon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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I do not accept the presentation on Housing for All because we have seen housing supply very significantly increase. There were fewer than 7,000 homes built in 2011 when my party and Deputy Bacik's went into government after the financial crash. That figure will be closer to 40,000 this year. I agree that there is a need for new targets. I also agree that there is a need to significantly increase the scale of ambition for the second half of this decade. That will be discussed at the next meeting of the Cabinet committee on housing, which is to be scheduled very shortly. I am hoping it can take place by the end of this month.

Photo of Holly CairnsHolly Cairns (Cork South West, Social Democrats)
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Five women in Northern Ireland have been killed in the space of just seven weeks: Sophie Watson, Montserrat Martorell, Rachel Simpson, Mary Ward and Mandy Magill. Per capita, Northern Ireland is now one of the most dangerous places in Europe to be a woman. Violence against women is an epidemic and always has been. Our society, culture and institutions are steeped in violence against women and changing that is not easy. It is present on our streets, our workplaces and our homes. We have had a lot of debates in this Chamber in the past year about the need to take further action. We talked about a zero-tolerance approach to gender-based violence and making that a reality but when the budget came around, there was only an additional €7.9 million allocated for domestic, sexual and gender-based violence initiatives. Will the Government increase the funding allocated in the budget? Gender-based violence does not recognise borders. We are all on one island and violence against women is present in every part of it. Is the Government looking into any all-island initiatives or approaches to try to work together on this?

Photo of Simon HarrisSimon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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The Deputy is entirely right to make the point that domestic, sexual and gender-based violence absolutely does not respect any borders. She makes a very fair and interesting point about the need to see if we can collaborate on the island of Ireland on this. I know from memory that the Northern Ireland Executive very recently launched its own strategy on domestic, sexual and gender-based violence and perhaps in that context, I could speak with the First Minister and deputy First Minister of Northern Ireland about seeing where we could collaborate. That is a constructive and helpful suggestion and I thank the Deputy for that.

I will ask the Minister for Justice to specifically come back to the Deputy regarding the additionality of funding around domestic, sexual and gender-based violence. While I understand that one figure, I am conscious that there are a number of different elements across the Minister's brief and wider government that will advance the implementation of the strategy.

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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Tens of thousands of health workers across the health service are balloting for industrial action against the pay and numbers strategy. I have raised this with the Taoiseach, the Minister for public expenditure, Deputy Donohoe, and the Minister for Health repeatedly over recent weeks. Workers are feeling forced to take industrial action because the pay and numbers strategy, despite protestations by the Government that there is no recruitment embargo, is, in effect, a recruitment ceiling or embargo by another name. It is preventing hospitals from recruiting the staff they need to ensure patient safety, safe staffing levels and to prevent the workforce from being completely overrun and demoralised, which is where many thousands of health workers are at the moment and, critically, endangering patient safety.

Is this not an absolutely incredible indictment of this Government, which has failed to properly to resource and staff our health service, that this now erupts into industrial action? Will it pre-empt the need of these workers to go on strike by simply scrapping the pay and numbers embargo on recruitment into our health service and ensure we have safe staffing levels right across that service?

Photo of Simon HarrisSimon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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We are nowhere near strike action. I understand that a ballot was begun by the INMO today and that FÓRSA will begin a ballot later this week. Any objective, fair analysis would acknowledge that growth in numbers of staff in our health service has never been as high, with recruitment in 2023 being the highest since the foundation of the Health Service Executive. As of August 2024, there were 27,900 more working in our health service than there were when the Government came to office. I understand there was an initial engagement on some of these matters with the WRC and the HSE remains available to engage. That would be the best way to proceed.

Photo of Cathal BerryCathal Berry (Kildare South, Independent)
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I support the Government's position and indeed, that of the Opposition, in respect of what is happening in south Lebanon at the moment where we have one man who is trying to hold the entire world to ransom. He wants to turn Beirut into Mariupol and Lebanon into Gaza and the only thing standing in his way is the thin blue line of UN peacekeepers. Mr. Netanyahu is claiming that the best way to protect the lives of UN peacekeepers is to withdraw them from the theatre. Does the Taoiseach agree that the very best way of protecting the lives of the UN peacekeepers is for the Israel Defense Forces to stop shooting at them?

Photo of Simon HarrisSimon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Deputy for his own service and expertise in this area and I absolutely and fully agree with him. Peacekeepers and peacekeeping have a very particular level of protection in international law and in terms of international norms regarding conflict. When I spoke to President Herzog of Israel yesterday, I made it clear to him in the strongest possible terms that what Israel had done in recent days amounted to a breach of international law. We will continue to make that point and will make it at the European Council this week as well. All of us stand in full support and solidarity with the brave men and women from Ireland and other countries who are serving with distinction with the UNIFIL mission.

Photo of Mattie McGrathMattie McGrath (Tipperary, Independent)
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I wish to raise the case of Lorraine, a 55-year-old Cashel woman who requires a patient transfer service by ambulance from her home in Cashel to UHL tomorrow at 11 a.m. for an infusion to prevent a further relapse in her multiple sclerosis. Her mother Kathleen is 82 years of age. This is a very sad situation. The trip did not happen last week because the voluntary ambulance service driver became ill and was unable to bring her. The ambulance service is unable to bring her tomorrow and as of now, there is nobody to bring this lady to the hospital. She is a young lady who was a nurse. She is paralysed from her neck down and is almost completely blind because of a relapse. She now requires full-time care. Without the necessary infusion on Wednesday, which is already a week late, her condition will further deteriorate. This is a sad situation. The ambulance service in County Tipperary is stretched. The staff are doing a great job in south Tipperary and Clonmel but they need a new ambulance base urgently and they need support. This is a very sad situation.

Photo of Simon HarrisSimon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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I will certainly look into the ambulance situation and ask the Minister for Health, Deputy Donnelly, to revert to the Deputy on it. Obviously, in relation to his constituent, Lorraine, who has multiple sclerosis and her transport situation, I do not have the information to hand but I will pass that directly on to the Minister for Health and ask that the HSE would reach out to the Deputy and his constituent Lorraine.

Photo of Cormac DevlinCormac Devlin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
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I am sure the Taoiseach will have seen media reports of the high-profile case of Naveed Rana, a taxi driver who was jailed last week for five and a half years for repeatedly sexually assaulting a young woman he was driving home. At the time of the assault, Mr. Rana was reported to be out on bail for serious drug offences. Does the Taoiseach agree that it is completely unacceptable for anyone charged with a serious offence and out on bail to operate a taxi? According to section 36 of the Taxi Regulation Act 2003, a mandatory disqualification should have happened. In most other sectors, a person would be suspended pending the determination of such a case. Will the Taoiseach raise this with the National Transport Authority? An urgent review of the regulations in this area is needed. The NTA must prevent a recurrence of this scenario, restore public trust in public transport and ensure regulations are adhered to.

Photo of Simon HarrisSimon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Deputy for raising this extraordinarily important issue. He is entirely right on the importance of people being and feeling safe as they access transport, including taxis. I recently met with the Ministers for Transport and Justice and their officials specifically on the issue of safety on public transport, including taxis.

My understanding from memory is that the Minister for Justice has a review under way on a number of these matters. I will seek an urgent update for Deputy Devlin.

4:00 pm

Photo of Aengus Ó SnodaighAengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
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Given that planes laden with weapons of war destined for Netanyahu's war criminals fly through Irish airspace daily to continue the slaughter of the innocents in Palestine, are the Defence Acts and the Transport Act robust enough to stop that crime? Why have they not been acted on given that an international crime is being committed? When will the Taoiseach instruct the authorities to act or do we need new laws to be passed to stop the Zionist munitions being transported across Irish airspace to be used against Palestinian civilians or even against UN peacekeepers, including Irish soldiers in Lebanon?

Photo of Simon HarrisSimon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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I thank Deputy Ó Snodaigh for raising this really important matter. As he rightly said, it is expressly prohibited for civil aircraft to carry munitions of war in Irish sovereign territory without being granted an exemption to do so by the Minister for Transport. Of course, no such exemptions have been granted but there have been many reports of this now happening. It is a very serious issue. The Minister for Transport has his officials engaging with the air operators concerned. The Minister has also agreed to have a debate in this House on these matters.

Photo of Willie O'DeaWillie O'Dea (Limerick City, Fianna Fail)
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The Government is committed to balanced regional development, something we all support. Page 60 of the programme for Government contains a commitment to develop the cities of Limerick, Cork, Waterford and Galway as viable alternatives to Dublin. In the National Development Plan 2021-2030, the indicative capital expenditure on those four cities for the period ending in 2030 is €8.3 billion. The comparable figure for Dublin is €31.3 billion, almost four times as much. I know there is a population difference but even the per capita investment is still skewed to the east coast. Does the Government propose to alter the capital distribution within the national development plan to realise its objective of balanced regional development?

Photo of Simon HarrisSimon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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I thank Deputy O'Dea for raising this important matter. It is probably fair to say that there are a number of national projects based in Dublin that obviously provide benefit to people from Limerick and people from the regions. I would have to look into it but I imagine that has had some impact on the figures but I take the point that he makes. We need to continue to actively prioritise and promote balanced regional development and using our capital budget is one way to do that. I would say to the Deputy is there will be a number of opportunities, including when we debate what to do with Apple funding, probably in the next Dáil, to seek to make progress on the issue of further capital funding in the regions, particularly Limerick which I am sure is on the Deputy's mind.

Photo of Brendan GriffinBrendan Griffin (Kerry, Fine Gael)
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I acknowledge some of the very positive measures included in the budget to assist small and medium-sized enterprises and particularly hospitality businesses and retail businesses. However, I also point out that these businesses are facing enormous difficulties with their cost bases at the moment. We had a major protest on the streets of Dublin here today from many people involved in those businesses who are finding it really difficult to do business at the moment and whose future survival requires further intervention from Government. Is it a priority of Government to further intervene and provide the types of supports required by businesses throughout the country, including in my own constituency of Kerry, to survive into the future and to be able to trade without facing such high costs of doing business?

Photo of Simon HarrisSimon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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Deputy Griffin makes an excellent point. I know it is an issue of concern for small businesses particularly in the hospitality and retail sector across Ireland. I know we have a lot of hospitality in County Kerry. From my visits there with the Deputy, I know how important this issue is. He is right to highlight the broader issue of the cost base. I highlight this when I meet people in the hospitality sector. When I walk into restaurants and cafés, they seem very busy. To a layperson like me it looks like a business doing well. However, the owners pull me aside and say they are still struggling to make ends meet. The Government needs to do a broader review of the cost base for our small and medium businesses and the Minister, Deputy Peter Burke, wishes to lead that. I think there is more we can do on that. A lot has come on businesses all at once. There is a sense of feeling somewhat overwhelmed and that is having a real impact. As the Deputy said, we have taken a number of measures in the budget to try to help but we are determined to do more.

Photo of Patrick CostelloPatrick Costello (Dublin South Central, Green Party)
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The Department of Education is not sufficiently invested in school buildings in Dublin South Central. Our Lady of Good Hope special school still does not have a PE hall. Parents in Bunscoil Synge Street contacted me recently about the Catholic Guides who are selling their community hall on Synge Street facing the school. Bunscoil Synge Street and the secondary school are growing schools. Here is an opportunity to invest in much-needed school buildings in the area. Will the Department of Education buy this hall for the school so that at least one school can have proper resources as a first step to correcting the lack of investment in Dublin South Central schools?

Photo of Simon HarrisSimon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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I thank Deputy Costello for raising the issues for Our Lady of Good Hope and for Bunscoil Synge Street. I know he raises on a very regular basis the issue of schools' capacity and facilities in his constituency of Dublin South Central. At Cabinet today we just agreed a very significant Supplementary Estimate for the Department of Education recognising its capital needs. I will ask the Minister to respond to the Deputy directly on the project he mentioned.

Photo of Pádraig Mac LochlainnPádraig Mac Lochlainn (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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I raise the issue of fair pay and conditions for school transport escorts. They are a really crucial part of disabled children's lives. Parents all across the State have provided testimony about this. Unfortunately they do not get paid during the school holidays and they have to sign on. They are left waiting and waiting. In my constituency I have met large numbers of them. I have also been contacted by escorts in other constituencies. Their pay is being reviewed but it has been dragging on for months. I ask the Taoiseach to speak to the Minister for Education and try to reach a decision as soon as possible to show them how much we value these people. That is what the parents want and what the children want. Let us show how much we value them by giving them proper pay and conditions so they do not have to sign on every time the school holidays start.

Photo of Simon HarrisSimon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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I thank Deputy Mac Lochlainn for raising this important matter. He is right to highlight the very important work done by our school transport escorts. I will seek an urgent update for him from the Minister for Education on this and revert to him directly.

Photo of Danny Healy-RaeDanny Healy-Rae (Kerry, Independent)
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I raised the issue of a pathologist for Kerry on 19 June. There has been no improvement since. Last week we had a delay of eight days for a Rathmore man. On Sunday evening my long-time best friend and neighbour, Tim John Healy, passed away and there is no account of his post-mortem yet. When a sudden death happens and the remains go away to the morgue, all people want to do is to get the body home and have a dignified funeral. I wish to sympathise with Tim John's wife, Noreen, and their children Siobhán, Geraldine, Denise and Timmy. It is not fair. If a pathologist cannot be provided in Kerry, I am asking for some other arrangements to be made with Limerick, Cork or somewhere.

Photo of Seán Ó FearghaílSeán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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I thank the Deputy.

Photo of Danny Healy-RaeDanny Healy-Rae (Kerry, Independent)
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The undertakers in Kerry are quite prepared to bring the remains there to do it.

Photo of Seán Ó FearghaílSeán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Okay, the Deputy's point is made.

Photo of Danny Healy-RaeDanny Healy-Rae (Kerry, Independent)
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All that is happening in Kerry at the minute is that Margot Bolster, the State Pathologist, is doing her level best. She comes on Saturdays, Sunday mornings, bank holiday Mondays.

Photo of Seán Ó FearghaílSeán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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We have only a minute for the question.

Photo of Danny Healy-RaeDanny Healy-Rae (Kerry, Independent)
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Aisling Quilter and Helen Lucey in the-----

Photo of Seán Ó FearghaílSeán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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We do not really need------

Photo of Danny Healy-RaeDanny Healy-Rae (Kerry, Independent)
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They look after the post mortems and do great work.

Photo of Seán Ó FearghaílSeán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Right.

Photo of Danny Healy-RaeDanny Healy-Rae (Kerry, Independent)
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They are being hindered in this regard and I ask the Taoiseach to do something about it.

Photo of Simon HarrisSimon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Deputy for raising the matter. I extend to Deputy Healy Rae my sympathies on the passing of his friend Tim John Healy, and also to Noreen and the family. I am sorry for their loss. On the issue of pathology services in Kerry, I understand the sensitivities with time. At a time of tragedy or sadness, people just want their loved one back. I will certainly seek an update on the pathology service. I will ask the Minister to revert to the Deputy directly on some of the suggestions he made of working with other areas.

Photo of Seán Ó FearghaílSeán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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As we are out of time, I will take 30-second questions from the two remaining Deputies.

Photo of Paul MurphyPaul Murphy (Dublin South West, RISE)
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Two years ago this week, tens of thousands of third level students led by USI walked out of lecture theatres to protest over the student accommodation crisis and the cost-of-living crisis. Two years on, they will do exactly the same this Thursday, 17 October at 11.30 a.m. Most of their problems have only got worse. The housing crisis has got worse and the cost-of-living crisis has got worse. In reality they face a profiteering crisis with big landlords and private companies seeking to make money.

They will be marching out looking for a scrapping of student fees, for proper student accommodation and for a minimum wage that is equal to the living wage.

4:10 pm

Photo of Aindrias MoynihanAindrias Moynihan (Cork North West, Fianna Fail)
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The rut is on and the wild deer are out there. They are a lot more active and visible across the countryside but particularly crossing roads. When they are crossing roads, they are not interested in traffic or anything. They are only focused on one thing. They are a danger and a hazard on the road. Many drivers are totally unfamiliar with how to deal with the situation and unaware of the seasonality of the whole issue. There needs to be a road safety and awareness campaign to minimise the danger on the roads arising from that season. Can the Taoiseach raise it with the RSA to ensure that they make people aware of the danger and road hazard that is there at this time of year, in much the same way there would be road hazards at other times of year?

Photo of Simon HarrisSimon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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Our colleague, the Minister, Deputy McConalogue, tells me that his Department is undertaking a recruitment campaign with regard to management teams at the moment. I accept very much the points the Deputy makes around the hazard they can be to road users, and the dangers. I will also ask the matter be raised with the RSA.

In response to Deputy Murphy, students will absolutely continue, no doubt, to protest and highlight issues of concern to them but I would say to them that we have cut their fees, increased their grants, increased the PhD stipend, extended the rent tax credit and invested more in third-level education than ever before in the history of the State.

Photo of Seán Ó FearghaílSeán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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I suspect getting in the way of a rutting stag might be more dangerous than being in the way of a canvassing politician. I thank the Deputies for raising those matters.