Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Minister of State for coming into the House to reply to this debate. This is a very emotive and important issue in my constituency. It has been going on for more than a year now. The Minister of State, to be fair to him, has been very active in attempting to come to a resolution. So far, unfortunately, his efforts have not been greeted with success, but we hope things will change very shortly because we all have to answer to our constituents. That is one of the things we have the pleasure of doing every three, four or five years, whenever it may be. In this case, I have tried to make allowances for the OPW and I have come to a conclusion. We have had weekly meetings, monthly meetings, working group meetings - all kinds of exchanges - and at the same time we have had to keep faith with the people who protested, now called the gatekeepers, and others who raised their concerns when it became obvious that what they had enjoyed in the past, that is, Castletown House and the 200 acres, approximately, of its environs, was about to become restricted insofar as their access to it was concerned. This came about when a person who purchased the adjoining property decided to restrict access to the house and put a gate across the road and so on.

The problem that immediately arises is whether the State has a right to access its property. It is a fundamental and important issue. It can be replicated again and again throughout the country in different locations. Whether the State has the right to visit and revisit its own property - not anybody else's property but property that it owns and has owned for many years - is the question. That will ultimately have to be decided legally. There may be no other way around it. People said a year ago, when this whole thing started, "It will take too long." Well, as a certain finance Minister uttered in Brussels some years ago, it takes as long as it takes but it has to be resolved. That means that the State has to make the case as to whether it is reasonable to expect that an adjoining landowner may restrict the State in its access and may render the State helpless and, as a result, may allow the house, which is a protected structure, to go into decay. In the past 12 months, no maintenance has been done, the grass and the weeds have grown all over, and the house has been neglected. It is neglected because the State's employees, its operatives, have not been able to travel to and from or to go through the house in the normal way, except because the OPW decreed, or the county council decided, that there was another way, the way that was accessible 300 years ago or thereabouts, when the house was built. That was onto the main street of Celbridge, which is heavily trafficked and is an area of extreme congestion at school times because there are schools all around.

The tableau prevails. The situation is the same as it was a year ago. I know the Minister of State has in mind a number of initiatives. We do not have time now because if this Dáil session does not deal with this issue, it will not be dealt with. I would be ashamed to have represented an area whereby this kind of situation occurred and we did not or could not do anything about it. It does not work that way, it does not happen that way and it will not happen that way, please God, when the Minister of State gets to grips with it.

Kieran O'Donnell (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
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Before I get to this very important matter, I join others in expressing my sympathy on the passing of the lady of the House in her time, Deputy Mary O'Rourke, to her family. Deputy Andrews is opposite. When we were first elected in 2007, Mary O'Rourke was a senior Member of the House. She was very vibrant. She was that combination of intellect and robustness. More than anything else, however, it is a sad passing for her two sons and her family. I acknowledge her contribution to Irish society.

I thank Deputy Durkan for his long-standing interest in Castletown estate. I know how keenly interested he is in finding a resolution, as I am. As he will be aware, when I came into office, I took over the chairing of the working group myself in my capacity as Minister of State. We have had four meetings. I had a meeting quite recently and I have a further meeting scheduled for next Tuesday, 8 October. I am endeavouring at the moment, once again at the request of the working group, to consider another access point. The chair of the OPW and I met with the residents to see if we could get temporary access, and I hope to have further engagement with the residents. I acknowledge the their meeting with us and looking at the matter. I still want to look at the broader matters which the Deputy broaches. I want to find a solution in terms of visitor parking and I continue to consider all options, including the M4 access. If we get the access I am talking about, that brings the staff back in. I note his major concern about the state of the grounds and the house. It is something we are all concerned about.

As he will be well aware, it is a policy of the OPW to reunite the historic Castletown demesne lands with the house and lands in the care of the State. The OPW has sought on several occasions to purchase the lands in question, including when the lands were offered for sale on the open market in 2022. Despite best efforts, the State was outbid on the open market and, ultimately, the lands were acquired by a private purchaser. It is the strategic objective of the OPW to reunite the lands. We remain open to negotiations with the landowners. The working group asked me to meet with them, I did so, and I expect to work towards further engagement with them very shortly.

I will take the points the Deputy raised. As regards the issue of the community, I have sought AG advice on the issue of access in all its aspects and I hope to have that advice very shortly. He mentioned the neglect. I want to get the staff back in but I want to get the wider resolution as well in terms of access for parking, and I am looking at all aspects. I believe that all stakeholders want to see Castletown estate welcome visitors and the local community back into Castletown and I want to find a resolution. I am absolutely committed to working. I have been in the role a relatively short time but I have held four meetings and I thank the stakeholders and the residents for their patience. I am determined to find a resolution, both short-term in terms of access for the staff but also more long-term in terms of parking for visitors and the public using the facility because it is a phenomenal public facility.

I reiterate that I am fully committed to working with the Deputy, everyone else in the working group and all stakeholders to find a resolution here.

Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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Initially, I would like to be associated with the tributes to the late and former Deputy, Senator and Minister, Mary O'Rourke. We all knew her well in this House. I think I was elected to the House before her. She was a personality and she and both sides of her family made a huge contribution to public life in this country, over a long number of years. We should all realise that.

I thank Deputy Wynne for taking the Chair. I appreciate the fact that the Minister of State is making every effort to resolve the problem, and many people, including the OPW, are looking for a temporary solution.

5 o’clock

In this matter, there can be no temporary solutions. We all know that. A temporary solution was found approximately 15 or 20 years ago whereby the then adjoining landowner agreed to allow access to and from the M4, as well as to allow car parking, etc. It was a temporary solution which worked well until one year ago. It was temporary, however. I emphasise to the Minister that there is need now for a permanent solution. I know the area very well. I should know it because I live only a couple of miles away from it. I have known it all my life. If we do not resolve the issue permanently this time, it will not be resolved at all. The estate will fall into disrepair. It will be beyond repair. That is the thing we wish to avoid at all costs.

The use of what is known as Lime Avenue for access onto the main street in Celbridge is not a runner. It will never be accepted by the local people and it does not make any difference. I have spoken with business people as well as with local residents in the area, who are all of the same opinion.

I wish the Minister of State well. We are expecting great results from him over the weekend. We expect a legal opinion on the feasibility and, once and for all, whether the State has the right to visit its own house.

Kieran O'Donnell (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
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I thank Deputy Durkan for raising this important matter. I note the point he has raised. I have stated, in my time as Minister of State, that Lime Avenue is not a permanent access point. There are varying views in terms of it being a temporary access. As far as a permanent access is concerned, however, that is not something I am looking at.

The Deputy is right; there is a need for a permanent solution. Equally, we have to find some way to get the staff back in to bring the grounds back up to standard because they are in serious neglect and disrepair. I want to state to the Deputy, all Oireachtas Members and the councillors and community groups in the area that my commitment on this particular issue is unwavering. The OPW has a long-established policy of seeking to reunite the historic Castletown House estate. That is in the interest of both the staff and the public accessing it, whether they are locals or visitors. I am aware of particular issues in this regard and I want to work in a collaborative way with everyone to find a resolution.

I understand how important this issue is to the Deputy, as a fellow public representative, and to the public in the area. I have met people and I know exactly what it means. I remain absolutely committed to finding a resolution to this case.