Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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10. To ask the Minister for Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth if, rather than moving the Ukrainian families from a location (details supplied), he will engage with the owners who would like to continue to accommodate these families and if he will make a statement on the matter. [39174/24]

Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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I contacted the Minister some time ago about this case. On 7 October, 29 residents, including ten children, six family groups and two additional married couples, all of whom are Ukrainians fleeing the war and are living in a former commercial building in the Blackrock-Stillorgan area, will have to leave. They have been there since Christmas 2022. The children are at school, many, if not most, of the adults are working and they are integrated into the community. The community wants them to stay and the person who owns the property wants them to stay, yet it seems the Department is insisting they leave. Can we not do something about this? It makes no sense to evict these people when they are integrated into the community.

Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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I thank the Deputy for his engagement with me on this issue. Other Deputies and Ministers in the constituency have been on to me as well. My Department made a decision to end its contract for accommodation of Ukrainians in this particular property in accordance with contractual terms. My officials have been in direct contact with this provider and have advised that the provider is free to continue providing accommodation to the Ukrainians living there on a private basis if it wishes to do so. The Ukrainians living there can avail of existing State supports such as rent supplement to do that.

Usually when Ukrainians leave State-provided accommodation, their entitlement to State-provided accommodation ends. In this situation, looking to facilitate the families in question, we have said that we will allow them to try to make those private arrangements with the provider. If that does not work out, they have an entitlement to come back into the State system and we will look to provide them with accommodation elsewhere.

We are trying to do our best to be fair. We have obligations in ensuring the contracts we have signed are fully set down. There was a concern about the contract here and it is on that basis that the Department is ending the contract but we are also looking to facilitate the Ukrainians living in this location, which is why we have put in place the particular measures I set out.

Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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There is a deadline looming and what we are doing about it is not clear to the community people supporting the residents and the residents because it is next Monday. It is very instructive to look at who these residents are in terms of the employment in which they are engaged. One is a pharmacist assistant, one is a lab worker in UCD, one is a construction worker, one is a carpenter, one is a carer for elderly people, one is a school caretaker and cleaner, one is a kitchen porter, one is a cashier and shop assistant, one is a cleaner with a contract cleaning company, one is a kitchen worker, one is a truck driver, another is a shop assistant and one is a florist. These are people who are working, helping our communities and filling gaps where there are desperate shortages of workers. Their children are in school, they play for local sports clubs and they do not know what is happening next week. The owner of the property does not understand it. The place has fire certification. They are not taking from the private rental market because it is a former commercial building so it will not be used for anything else to help people with the housing crisis. They need help to stay where they want to stay, the community wants them to stay and the owner of the property wants them to stay and where they are contributing to the local community. Can the Minister give them some certainty that they will not have to get out next week?

Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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I advise each of those families to contact the Ukrainian unit in my Department and indicate that they wish to stay in this location and will look to have a private arrangement with the provider and we will note that. Nobody will be forcibly moved if that is the approach they wish to take. If they wish to take up the offer of alternative accommodation with my Department, they can still do that as well. We will note specifically that if the private arrangement falls through for any reason, they will be able to rejoin the State-provided accommodation system so it is a good compromise.

Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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That sounds positive and I will relay back what the Minister is saying but why bring problems upon or put extra pressure on himself or discommode these people and the local community when it is not necessary? Hopefully, that solution will work. I know that in terms of contacting the Department of Social Protection about rent supplement, that has not been fully processed. Perhaps the Minister could do something about that. I am not sure what the compliance issues were. The owner of the property said that it was more than willing to engage and neither the owner or I is really sure what the compliance issues were because it has fire certification. There are unanswered questions. I take the positives from what the Minister said and will tell the residents to contact the unit referred to by the Minister. Can I take it from this that there is no looming deadline on 7 October and if we can work something out, they will be able to stay where they are?

Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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We are not looking to impose a looming deadline if these families are looking to make a private arrangement in this location. I hope I have addressed this location but we can step back. We contracted a significant volume of accommodation around the country to meet the emergency needs of Ukrainians. Approximately 67,000 Ukrainians lived in State-owned accommodation at one stage. This has decreased very significantly. We are going to have to consolidate that range of accommodation where there are contractual issues but we are also going to have to consolidate it in terms of scale because we have empty beds and I do not think anybody would agree that the State should be paying for empty beds. That consolidation will require moves and some of them will be hard. This is something I will have to recognise in terms of the €2 billion put aside for refugee accommodation next year. This is absolutely right but I do not think anyone here will agree that we would should pay for empty beds in hotels or anything like that, nor should we withhold beds from the tourism sector. I am trying to get the balance right between-----

Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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This is not for tourism.

Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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Absolutely. I am trying to get the balance right between the lived experience referred to by the Deputy-----

Michael Ring (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Time is up. Other Members are present to take their questions.