Alan Farrell (Dublin Fingal, Fine Gael)
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8. To ask the Minister for Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth for an update on his Department's efforts to further reduce the cost of childcare in Ireland; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [39013/24]

Alan Farrell (Dublin Fingal, Fine Gael)
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Timing is everything. I would like to ask a question about the Minister's vision for budget 2025 and the further investments he proposes to reduce the cost of childcare for parents up and down the country but also in addition to the question that has been legitimately asked, and that is about public childcare funding. I am delighted to hear the Labour Party reiterate its position on that. It is one the Minister has reiterated and one I have stated over many years, including as a former Chair of the committee on children.

Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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We were able to announce a 25% increase in funding for early years in my Department yesterday, a very significant increase in funding. What that will do in 2025 I draw into three distinct areas.

As the Deputy knows, in 2024, we were able to achieve a second very significant cut in fees for parents through the national childcare scheme and, because of that, more parents are signing up to the NCS and more children are getting the benefit of that cut in fees. The primary goal in 2025 is to ensure there is funding for more children to take up the NCS. That will grow to 214,000 children using the NCS next year. When I started, 44,000 were using the NCS, so there has been massive growth over the last four years.

The second key area of investment that we set out yesterday is in core funding. There will be an increased allocation for providers in order that we can maintain the fee freeze, have more for administration and meet the much lower costs of inflation next year. We also have a separate dedicated allocation that will be paid out on foot of a new pay agreement between providers and staff that I hope will be negotiated next year. There is €15 million allocated for 2025; it will be €45 million over the full core year. That will allow for a pay increase, but the allocation will not be paid out until that pay increase is negotiated.

The final key element in terms of the uplift for next year relates to equal start, the DEIS model that I introduced last year. I think everyone really welcomed that and the additional supports for about 700 services that kicked in on 1 September.

About 32,000 children around the country are in equal start services. From next September, as well as getting lower staff ratios, we will be providing support for meals for those services. We are growing targeted supports to 32,000 children, most of them from our most disadvantaged areas.

Alan Farrell (Dublin Fingal, Fine Gael)
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I am delighted to see the level of funding being allocated by the Department. I commend the Minister, his officials and the Government on the level of attention paid to this crucial area. The national childcare scheme has been a game changer for hundreds of thousands of people, which is tremendous, but there are some constraints, particularly in large urban settings where childcare places are difficult to come by.

There is also the cost. I know the Minister spends much time, as I do in a neighbouring constituency, dealing with families who effectively make a second mortgage payment for their childcare needs. I commend the funding coming in to reduce that cost by over €1,000 in the calendar year, which is fantastic news, but we have to have a conversation.

Points have been made on vacant childcare facilities and those that have never been built in housing estates, including in the Minister's constituency and mine - indeed, in my own housing estate in Malahide. We also need to ensure the national childcare scheme is working as best it can to keep providers within it and grow the number of providers coming into it. That is crucial.

Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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Living in primarily urban constituencies, the Deputy and I have to recognise capacity challenges are everywhere. Deputies Kerrane and Sherlock have highlighted them. All over the country there are capacity challenges. Part of it is that, because we have made it more affordable, more parents are taking it up with both parents going to work and they want their kids to enjoy the benefit of early learning and care. These are all positives.

I have set out the steps we will be taking this year and next, particularly in relation to capital funding. Hopefully, that will allow some of those vacant units to be taken up. That would be really important. It is massively frustrating to see those units vacant when they are built; sometimes there are just foundations there. The Department is doing important work with the Department of housing to look at the regulations and, particularly, enforcement. About 18 months ago, I met planners from about 15 local authorities - the main urban ones, including Fingal - to ask what are the challenges with the current regulations and how we make them better.

Alan Farrell (Dublin Fingal, Fine Gael)
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The Minister's colleague in Dublin West, Senator Currie, has brought this up and brought it to the Minister's attention before. I am delighted to hear the Minister has been so proactive as to get together with local authorities across the State. It is crucial.

On the publicly funded model of early years education, I wonder whether the capital scheme would involve the Department constructing such facilities on contract and then leasing them to providers, thereby reducing the cost base for providers and ensuring costs are not so high initially for parents. Is that a consideration in the future model we would all like to work on with the Minister in the coming months and years?

Jennifer Murnane O'Connor (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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We all realise there are many good things in the budget for parents. There is the reduction in fees through the national childcare scheme and other benefits for new parents, but my biggest issue concerns places for children. We in Carlow have children trying to get into a crèche or childcare facility and they are waiting over a year. While I welcome the funding and how hard the Minister has worked, children getting places is the biggest issue I face and it affects families and parents.

An example was given to me a few months ago and I spoke to the Minister about it. The Carlow core funding threshold band is €189.13. If you live in Dún Laoghaire, your core funding is €316.82. At the end of the day - Carlow, Dublin, Kilkenny, Waterford, wherever - there need to be changes within the core funding system. Everybody operating a crèche pays ESB, staff and other outgoings.

I see there is a new allocation of SNAs to schools in the budget. That is welcome but much of the childcare sector will go there. The biggest issue is they are finding recruitment really hard in the sector. We need to pay the proper wages.

Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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The Deputy is right that we need to pay proper wages and that is why I announced that allocation yesterday for pay. That will only flow to providers if there is an agreement to increase pay. We need to go further; I do not think that is the end of the pay discussion by any means.

Deputy Murnane O'Connor's point on the need for a place is similar to what Deputy Farrell spoke about and what we have spent most of the morning talking about. Next year, there is €25 million for capital funding. That can be drawn down by private providers or community providers.

A question that will ultimately be for the next government is where capital is available. Is it available for the community sector or private sector? If we decide to take an approach involving direct public provision, is that where the capital goes? Nothing is unlimited. That will be a strategic decision the next government takes. In my non-ministerial role, it is something I am considering at the moment; I am sure other parties are discussing it as well.