Seán Sherlock (Cork East, Labour)
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2. To ask the Minister for Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth the number of children on a waiting list for early learning and care and school-age childcare services, by county. [38914/24]

Seán Sherlock (Cork East, Labour)
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How many people, by county, are waiting for childcare places at this time across each of the offerings being provided by the Minister's Department? I ask for that information to be given in tabular form, with a county-by-county breakdown.

Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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I cannot read out the information in tabular form but I will get that breakdown to the Deputy.

Seán Sherlock (Cork East, Labour)
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I ask that the Minister read out the data for Cork. We will start there.

Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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The data available to my Department demonstrates that, overall, early learning and childcare provision is expanding. The early years sector profile survey shows that between the 2021-22 year and the 2022-23 year, the estimated number of enrolments in services rose by 8% and the estimated number of staff in the early learning and childcare workforce also rose by 8%. Data from Tusla on service closures and new service registrations shows a net increase of 129 in the overall number of services in 2023. Core funding application data shows that between year one and year two of the scheme, annual place hours increased by almost 8%.

I acknowledge, however, that there is evidence of some parents having difficulty in finding the type of provision they would like for their children.

The early years sector profile survey shows that between 2021-22 and 2022-23, the proportion of services with at least one child on a waiting list increased slightly, from 47% to 48%. The counties with the highest proportion of services with at least one child on a waiting list were Monaghan, at 67%, followed by Dublin city, at 63%. The counties with the lowest proportion of services with at least one child on a waiting list were Offaly, at 32%, followed by Mayo, at 34%.

It is relevant that we advise a bit of caution when we talk about waiting lists because, first, not every service operates a waiting list, which is very much based on determination of the service, and, second, some children are on waiting lists for a number of services, which impacts on the overall figures.

Importantly, as I noted in my response to Deputy Kerrane, we have created a forward planning unit the Department designed to look at demand and need across the various demographics and across the country and engage with local authorities and the county and city childcare committees to better understand and therefore better design our responses to it, whether that is through capital or regulations.

Seán Sherlock (Cork East, Labour)
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I appreciate that the Minister stated percentage increases but I do not see any hard figures. All of us in the Opposition rely on hard figures. I appreciate the point the Minister is making, if I am reading him correctly, that it is not possible to give an exact top-line figure for the number of people waiting. However, it is clear from the running theme in the questions so far this morning that there is an evidence base that there is a shortage of places. I am merely trying to interrogate how many more places we need. The Minister stated he started a forward planning unit. This is one of the biggest issues for families with young children.

The Minister has made some utterances in the past on having a public model, as has the Taoiseach. How soon will that be implemented? What planning has taken place for that?

Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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Capacity is now our core challenge in early years. Four years ago when I became Minister, the challenge was staff pay, which remains a challenge. The challenge was also the cost of childcare for parents. We have done a lot to meet that. It is still too expensive for some parents but we have taken important steps. The challenge was the sustainability of providers. In year four, core funding will be €390 million. Core funding did not exist before I became a Minister. It has gone a significant way to meeting the sustainability challenges of providers.

Capacity is the challenge now. We are bringing forward the capital funding so we can build new services. We are paying our staff better so they can improve recruitment and retention in order that we can ensure that every room that is designed can be opened. We are working with the Department of housing to improve the planning regulations in respect of the design of new early years services in new estates and their delivery. Too often, they are part of the plan but are not actually delivered.

Seán Sherlock (Cork East, Labour)
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It would be useful if the Minister could furnish me with the reply and the breakdown by county in numerical form as opposed to percentage increase form.

I reiterate the point I made on the movement towards a public model. The Taoiseach, on 11 September, stated, “I want childcare to be part of the public education system”. That is the Taoiseach saying that. He also said there was “more work to be done” around available places and expressed concern about places. I note the Minister’s response and the moves within his Department to try to address capacity issues. However, I hope we hear from him today what he and the Government are seeking to do, based on the Minister's and the Taoiseach’s public commentary, to develop a public model of childcare where the State pays childcare workers.

Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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I think the Taoiseach was speaking in the context of proposals for his party’s manifesto in the general election, so I will not speak for him. However, I am happy to speak about what my own party will be talking about in the general election campaign.

Seán Sherlock (Cork East, Labour)
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He is the Taoiseach of the country.

Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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The Deputy asked my view and I am very happy to give it to him. I believe the two years of ECCE should be legislated for on a statutory basis, so that every child has the right to access ECCE. Second, I believe that in areas of high capacity, the State now needs to step in and look at providing services directly. A combined model of public provision, community provision and private provision can work for the delivery of childcare everywhere. Third, the issue of staff pay is absolutely fundamental. That will require continued investment. I have more than doubled investment in childcare in the past four years. That is an important step forward but there is still a long way to go to bring us in line with other European countries in terms of what we invest in early years. Much as been achieved in four years. We now have an opportunity in the general election campaign to set out a vision for early years in the next five to ten years.