Violet-Anne Wynne (Clare, Independent)
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7. To ask the Minister for Employment Affairs and Social Protection if she will consider the removal of the means test for the carer's allowance in budget 2025; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [37685/24]

Violet-Anne Wynne (Clare, Independent)
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Will the Minister consider the abolition in the upcoming budget of the means test for carer's allowance?

Heather Humphreys (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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The carer's allowance scheme is the main means by which the Department provides income support to carers in the community. In 2024, expenditure on the scheme is estimated to be more than €1.1 billion. Since my appointment as Minister, I have made a number of significant improvements to the means test for carer's allowance. In June 2022, the income disregards were increased from €332.50 to €350 for a single person and from €665 to €750 for carers with a spouse or partner.

The capital and savings disregard for the carer's allowance means assessment was also increased from €20,000 to €50,000. In the case of a couple, this equates to €100,000. As part of budget 2024, the weekly income disregard was further increased from €350 to €450 for a single person and from €750 to €900 for carers with a spouse or a partner. I was the first Minister in many years to increase these disregards. This means that carer's allowance has the highest disregards of any weekly payment in the social welfare system.

However, removing the means test, as suggested by the Deputy, would not benefit those carers who rely solely on the payment and have no additional income. It is also important to acknowledge that a range of other supports for carers are provided by my Department that are not based on a means assessment, such as the carer's support grant, carer's benefit and the domiciliary care allowance. Removing the means test for carer's allowance in its entirety would give rise to additional costs of more than €600 million. Taking account of estimates of inflows, this could increase to between €880 million and €2 billion a year.

As always, I keep all these matters under review and they will fall to be considered in the context of the budget.

Violet-Anne Wynne (Clare, Independent)
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I acknowledge the Minister's work. As she has pointed out, she was one of the first Ministers to make changes in this area for many years. As she knows, however, this is a matter that is close to my heart. I have been working with Family Carers Ireland. It has refuted the statistics she has given, in particular relating to the cost. It has estimated that the total cost of abolishing the carer's allowance means test would be approximately €389.4 million. That is much lower than what the Minister has estimated. She has pointed to those whom this measure would still leave without access to the payment or who would be punished in some ways with the expansion but a number of carers are not able to get any support other than the carer's support grant. Last year, the number was 319 for County Clare and it was 5,500 nationally. I was wondering what the number would be for this year, if the Minister has that to hand. Those are the families that are still being left without.

Heather Humphreys (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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I absolutely recognise and value the work of our carers. My Department will spend in excess of €1.7 billion this year on support payments to carers. Carers have been a key priority for me as Minister for Social Protection. I acknowledge the support I have had from Family Carers Ireland to make changes such as the new pension contributions for long-term carers from the start of January. There is a strong interest in that. As I outlined in my initial reply, there are already a large number of carers, mainly women, who are qualifying for a pension because of the changes we have made. That number will continue to grow now that we have the scheme in place. In recent budgets, I have supported the carers in a number of different ways. They will be a priority for me as I approach this budget as well.

Violet-Anne Wynne (Clare, Independent)
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I appreciate that and, again, I acknowledge the work the Minister has done. It is not about this term, however; it is about the fact that the carers are coming from a very low bar. Some 69% who took part in the Family Carers Ireland survey find it difficult to make ends meet. There is an issue with loneliness as well. The long-standing issues and the challenges that carers face, are down to what I and Family Carers Ireland call casualties of policies. They have to fight for so much support and so many services throughout their period of caring. It would be fantastic if they had one fewer fight to fight. I know it is a big undertaking, and I recognise that the Minister values their contribution, but there are 500,000 carers in the country who are saving the State €20 billion, and we have quite a surplus this year.

Donnchadh Ó Laoghaire (Cork South Central, Sinn Fein)
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The calculations the Minister has provided are quite considerable. What is the basis on which she is calculating the additional inflow? How much of an additional inflow would we be talking about for both the €800 million scenario and the €2 billion scenario? What is the kind of inflow that we would be looking at, according to her calculations?

Heather Humphreys (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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If the means test is abolished completely, many more people will apply for the payment. The officials have estimated that and have given me those figures. I take them in good faith. I can get further details on them.

It is important to note that, only since June of this year, I increased the limits again such that a couple can earn up to €900 per week and have €50,000 in savings and still qualify for the full carer's allowance payment. The reality, however, is that no matter where I draw the line, there will always be some people who will fall the other side of it. I do not want to see those people left behind either. I know women who have given up their job to care for a child with disabilities but who, because the husband works, do not qualify for any payment. That is not right, and I accept that. The carer who provides should be recognised. That is why I have set up an interdepartmental group with the Department of Health to examine the means test entirely. Abolishing the means test would cost a lot of money - €600 million. I know the economy is going well, but we have to prioritise resources. That is just the way it is. It is very hard to see how one could do all of what Deputy Wynne is asking for in one budget alone in terms of the cost of removing the means test.