Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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I will now take Leaders' Questions under Standing Order 36. It is my pleasure to call Deputy McDonald.

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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Go raibh maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle.

The Taoiseach's treatment of children with scoliosis and spina bifida who are waiting for surgery is disgraceful. These children wait in agony for operations that can save and change their lives and the longer they wait, the worse their condition gets. It is a race against the clock and against the child's condition becoming inoperable and the prospect of permanent paralysis. There are too many children in this awful situation and today I want to speak to the Taoiseach about one of them.

Nochtann cás Harvey Sherratt arís an chaoi scannalach a chaitear le páistí le scolóis agus spina bifida orthu atá ag fanacht na mblianta fada i gcomhair obráidí. Harvey Sherratt has scoliosis and spina bifida. He is eight years old. He was born in 2016, the same year the Taoiseach was appointed Minister for Health. In 2017, when Harvey was just one year old, his parents were told that his ribs were crushing his lungs. In that same year as he became Minister, the Taoiseach promised that no child with scoliosis would wait four months for his or her operation, but he broke that promise and children waited and waited. Harvey has waited and waited, and his condition has become life-threatening.

Two years ago, the curvature of the spine was 65°. Today it is 110°. It is twisting his rib cage against his heart and lungs, making it almost impossible for him to breathe. Between October and Christmas of last year, Harvey was rushed to hospital five times - twice by ambulance and on one occasion on Christmas Day. This child desperately needs his operation yet his parents recently found out that he was silently removed from the waiting list. Stephen, Harvey's dad, told me they have been pushed to breaking point and that it is utterly debilitating for them as a family to see Harvey treated this way. They feel powerless to help him. It has completely changed their outlook on life. His mother, Gillian, said the wait and lack of treatment is killing her child.

Gillian has sent the Taoiseach numerous emails pleading for assistance to no avail. Late last night on the eve of the return of the Dáil, however, she finally got her reply; an e-mail in which the Taoiseach makes no commitment to end the agony of their child. Of course, it was not the Taoiseach's only late night e-mail. Last May, he promised to meet the parents of children with scoliosis and spina bifida. He still has not met them and late last night, they too received an e-mail inviting them to meet him in October. This means they will have waited almost six months to see him.

Each day these children spend waiting is a day too long, never mind six months. I am sure Gillian and Stephen would have no problem telling the Taoiseach how much worse Harvey has got since he made that promise to meet last May. These children need their operations. All the Taoiseach has offered is review after review with no results or improvements. Parents are stonewalled again and again, and it is simply not good enough. These children wait and wait because of Government failures, and it is the Taoiseach's job to fix it. As Taoiseach, the buck stops with him. Today, I would like him to tell Harvey's parents and the parents of all of the other children when they will finally get their operations.

David Cullinane (Waterford, Sinn Fein)
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Hear, hear.

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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I thank Deputy McDonald for raising this important issue. I will say at the outset, as the Ceann Comhairle has said to us before in this House, I am very conscious of discussing clinical details or, indeed, those of us discussing them who are not clinicians. I say that in a general sense but I say it in an important sense because Deputy McDonald asked me to provide operations when, of course, the decision to operate or not will always be a clinical matter. I am sure that is a view she would share. Politicians do not order operations. Clinicians decide when it is safe to operate. I say that to be helpful and to be respectful to the role of a clinician and to the situation of patients as well.

Let me say this, however. I am very aware of Harvey's case. I have been in direct contact with the chief executive officer of the HSE with regard to the matter and with my colleague, the Minister for Health. I hope that a further appointment can be made soon to clinically discuss the next steps in Harvey's care.

I believe that to be important. Yes, Harvey's mum wrote to me. Yes, when we received the correspondence, my office immediately looked into the case and yes, I responded with the information provided to me by the HSE. I am absolutely certain that what is vital here is a clinical consultation with the family. Yes, my office has been in contact with advocacy groups and I expect to meet them shortly. It will not just be a meeting with me; it will be a meeting with the new clinical lead for spinal surgery, the Minister for Health and the head of the HSE. I very much regret that children can experience long waiting times for treatment. I am conscious of the burden that this places on them and their families. I am very conscious, as a parent, how any of us would do anything and go to the ends of the earth if our child needed any sort of treatment or care. Yes, when I was Minister for Health, I met with the families of children awaiting scoliosis procedures on many occasions. I remember them. I remember their names and I remember their faces. I understand some of what they are going through, but none of us can fully imagine that anxiety, pain and worry. This is an ongoing issue. It is affecting young children and their families. We must do everything they can to help them. I assure Deputy McDonald that this Government will, and is, doing everything it can to help them. I had a very good meeting with the Minister for Health and the chief executive of the HSE on this issue. I have met with the new clinical lead of the dedicated spinal unit, Mr. David Moore, and the teams. I know that absolutely that possibly can be done to help is being done.

Many of the issues Deputy McDonald raised in this House, which I will come to in a moment, have specifically been addressed since she previously raised them. The Minister for Health is chairing monthly meetings between the HSE and Children's Health Ireland aimed at improving waiting lists. A paediatric spinal task force has been established with an independent chair, Mark Connaughton SC. This task force consists of all stakeholders, including patient representatives and clinicians. We are committing significant additional investment to help improve services as well. It is not just talk and reviews. Here are the numbers. We have already seen a very significant increase in the number of procedures carried out in 2022 and in 2023. So far this year over 300 spinal procedures have taken place. Behind each number is a child who has gotten an operation and been successfully treated in the Irish health service. A dedicated paediatric spinal surgery management unit was established by Children's Health Ireland. That is working to drive continuous improvements and a further funding of €1.34 million was allocated following a request from the new clinical lead. This includes additional staff, a Saturday outpatient clinic and capacity for MRI scans under general anaesthetic to address waiting lists. We have also seen a number of reforms undertaken to further increase capacity for spinal surgeries, such as extending the operating theatre. A ring-fenced theatre in Crumlin is now providing additional capacity as well. Deputy McDonald has previously raised the issue, as have advocacy groups, of national outsourcing. That is why we are now using capacity in Cappagh Hospital, the Blackrock Clinic and the National Treatment Purchase Fund. We also have international arrangements in place. We will do everything we possibly can to assist and make progress in this area. Of that there is no doubt. It is not a resourcing issue or a commitment issue. However, there are clinical issues, and the views of clinicians are always important in terms of care pathways too.

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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The difficulty is the Taoiseach has not done everything he can to resolve this situation. Harvey's parents, Steven and Gillian, are in the Public Gallery. They should not be here. They very fact that parents of children with scoliosis and spina bifida have to come to the Dáil in this way is a testament to failure in and of itself because their child is running out of time. That is the reality. It is not the Taoiseach's child. It is not mine either. He is Gillian's and Steven's child. He is eight years old and he is deteriorating rapidly. He needs and deserves the operation and care that he is entitled to. It strikes me, and I am alarmed by it, frankly, that the Taoiseach is going through the motions here. He is reciting the thing he recites and has recited time and again when we have raised the issue of these very complex cases that can no longer be left on the never never because time is running out. I want the Taoiseach to make a commitment, not to me, but to the parents of Harvey, Gillian and Steven. They are a young couple in the Public Gallery. I want you to tell them that their child will get the operation he needs. I want you to tell him that the wait, the stonewalling, the prevarication, the spin and soundbites will end and that action will now be taken.

Louise O'Reilly (Dublin Fingal, Sinn Fein)
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Hear hear.

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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Deputy McDonald is better than that. At least, I thought she was.

She is asking me, as a politician, to give a commitment to a child to have an operation regardless of whether a clinician believes that operation to be the best care pathway or not. That is what the Deputy is asking me to do.

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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The clinician.

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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No. Unless over the summer the Deputy became a surgeon, she is asking me to recommend clinical care pathways for an extraordinarily sick child. I want that child, Harvey, to get the best clinical care possible. I want Harvey to get all of the treatment possible. I want every child in Ireland, as does the Minister for Health, to get all of the care possible and I believe the best way to progress these matters is through clinical consultation. What I can absolutely tell Harvey's parents and tell all parents is whatever clinical care is recommended will be provided, but-----

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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That has not happened.

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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-----it is the clinical care that is recommended. I believe that to happen. When I corresponded last night with the family, that is the point I made. We are very happy for my team to talk to the family, very happy to help in every way we can but, ultimately-----

David Cullinane (Waterford, Sinn Fein)
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They are waiting for years.

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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-----a clinical decision will have to be made here and for the Deputy to suggest that there is some clinical lever that I can pull that I just could not be bothered pulling is insulting to parents of sick children.

David Cullinane (Waterford, Sinn Fein)
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That is not what we are saying.

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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The Deputy is better than that and sick children deserve better than that.

Louise O'Reilly (Dublin Fingal, Sinn Fein)
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Four years as Minister for Health.

Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Can we have order now, please?

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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Stop playing politics with the issue.

Holly Cairns (Cork South West, Social Democrats)
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The report into abuse in religious-run schools is horrific. Hundreds of predators subjected thousands of children to relentless sexual abuse. Survivors described being molested, stripped naked, raped and drugged in an atmosphere of terror and silence. The abuse happened in classrooms, offices and sports facilities. Some were sexually abused in their own homes by predators who had gained their family's trust. Nowhere and no one was safe. The scale of abuse is such that gardaí are now investigating if it was organised and co-ordinated by paedophile rings. What we are dealing with is a scandal of unprecedented and unparalleled proportions. These predators acted with impunity, were protected by religious orders and destroyed the lives of countless innocent children.

The immense bravery of those who have come forward to tell their stories is inspiring. I acknowledge the two brothers whose courage in speaking to RTÉ about their abuse in Blackrock College opened the floodgates - Mark and David Ryan. Sadly, Mark died before this report was published, but his legacy is one of enormous service to this country.

Mark, David and all of the other survivors have shown incredible bravery and courage. Can the Taoiseach explain why the State has not? The reaction of the State to this and every other abuse scandal involving religious orders is one of cowardice. The Taoiseach and fellow Ministers have implored religious orders to think about their Christian values and their moral obligations to contribute to redress. Can we please stop talking about Christian values and moral obligations when we are discussing children being raped and investigations into paedophile rings in schools? Where is the legal obligation? Where are the criminal convictions? Why are these orders not being raided by gardaí, why are their assets not being seized and why on earth are they still running our schools? It is unbelievable that the approach of successive governments to these orders, which operated as criminal networks, is to roll over. We could be here today discussing legislation that would help us to hold these orders to account but we are not. We have had report after report about horrific child abuse carried out by members of religious orders - abuse that was deliberately facilitated and concealed by those orders. What will it take for the State to finally act and go after these orders with more than a pathetic appeal to their moral values?

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Deputy for raising this extraordinarily important issue. Lives have been destroyed. A national trauma has been unleashed and I join with her in paying tribute to Mark - I am thinking of him and his memory today - his brother David and, indeed, all the survivors and victims who came forward.

They have done the State an extraordinary service.

Let me be crystal clear just in case there is any misinterpretation in any manner or means about what the Deputy may or may not have heard me or any member of the Government say in recent weeks. I was making the point that those who preach certain things should practice in that way. The Deputy left out the next sentence but the next sentence is very important. The Government takes nothing off the table in terms of what can and should be done regarding this situation. I thank and commend the Minister for Education on the her work on this and the sensitive way she has handled this issue and worked with survivors. I pay tribute to her for that. The scoping inquiry is very clear about the responsibility and obligation on religious orders to quite frankly cough up here in terms of redress, and we should not repeat the mistakes of the past regarding this. I do not wish to speak about these matters in crude terms but anyone who thinks anyone is going to get off the hook here regarding their responsibility and obligation, moral or otherwise, is wrong. That is a misplaced view.

What we want to do is get the next steps right. The most important thing we have to do as a Government right now is make sure we put the correct mechanism in place in terms of the commission of investigation because I have heard what the survivors have said very clearly. They do not want to wait years and years again. This has destroyed their lives. As the Deputy rightly said, it has put their lives on hold. They want a process that is going to deliver for them. Sometimes we have done this well in this country and sometimes we have done it appallingly badly. We need to get that right. Redress will have to be a part of that but it is only a part of that because truth, justice and accountability constitute a major part as well.

The Deputy asked questions about why An Garda Síochána did not do this or that. I, and we in this House, do not direct An Garda Síochána but what we do know is that the Garda has been extraordinarily clear in terms of asking people to come forward and make complaints and statements. I understand that this has already happened in many cases and, therefore, this is a live Garda investigation into these matters as well.

The scale of this is shocking. The Deputy rightly said that religious orders knew; so did a lot of people in society. Religious orders knew but it seems to me that a hell of a lot of people must have known about this. The scale of this is so large that the idea that this was not known widely in society is not a credible proposition for anyone to put forward. Let me be clear to the Ceann Comhairle and the people of Ireland that we will act on this. We will have a full commission of investigation. We have decided that as a Government. We will do it in consultation in designing it in a way that works for survivors led by the Minister for Education. We will get this right. We will work across this House to get this right. We do not rule out legislation, legal change or any action that may be taken to make sure that, once and for all, people step up to their responsibilities that they have been evading and running from for decades.

Holly Cairns (Cork South West, Social Democrats)
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The Taoiseach said this Government takes nothing off the table and anyone who thinks they will get off the hook is wrong but for his information, this has literally just happened with regard to the redress scheme for mother and baby homes. The Minister went over cap in hand to the Church to try to get a contribution and did not get one. Is the Taoiseach aware of a legal strategy that is being used by the Christian Brothers when survivors take a case against them? They are using a technicality to force survivors who want to sue them to name every member of the order from the time they were abused. This can mean having to find the names of up to 120 people. Oftentimes they have to go to the High Court to try to extract this information from the Christian Brothers and that is just to start the case. Can the Taoiseach imagine how much it costs survivors to take them on? Can he imagine how difficult it is? Can he imagine the trauma that is causing? Why is that legal? In Australia, when religious orders began using despicable defences in court to evade responsibility for child abuse, the parliament changed the law. Why is the Taoiseach not looking at laws like this, which will deliver justice? Has he tried anything other than just appealing to the religious orders to use what he calls their "Christian values"?

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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Has the Deputy done that because this is not just a debating chamber? She is a legislator. Anybody can bring forward legislation in this House so if she has ideas about how she thinks the law should be changed, she should bring them forward and we will engage with her.

Gary Gannon (Dublin Central, Social Democrats)
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We will.

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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Thank you very much because we are not just here to commentate on this most shocking national tragedy and trauma. We are here to come forward with ideas. I do not intend to play politics with this or throw the Deputy's words back at her in the way she tends to misrepresent mine. I was calling on people who call themselves Christian to act in accordance with their values. I also said that we will use every lever at our disposal to make sure these people get truth, accountability and justice and nothing is off the table. I do not think I can be any clearer to survivors. The only thing is that I am reassured that survivors understand what I am saying even if the Deputy is choosing not to.

We are going to get this right. We are going to once and for all, as a state, prove that we can help to heal and not just brush things under the carpet. How many reports have we had in this country that show us this horrific trauma? Every now and again, everybody gets offended and upset and says things will change, but they have not. We still have not, as a country, dealt with the scale of the abuse that happened and the mistrust. People who had authority and responsibility, and who were trusted with our children, failed to live up to that.

We will get this right. We will work with the Deputy. Any legislative proposals from her are welcome and we will hear them. The Minister, Deputy Foley, is going about this the right way by engaging with survivors in terms of the next steps. Nobody will get off the hook. The mother and baby process is still ongoing.

Michael Collins (Cork South West, Independent)
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The debacle caused by the National Ambulance Service over the past weekend has to be seriously investigated. The NAS caused fury in counties Cork and Kerry when it announced further reduction of services covering these areas. This effectively was leaving no ambulance cover for the Skibbereen area on Mondays, no service in Castletownbere on Tuesdays, no day service in Clonakilty and Bantry on Thursdays and no service in Bantry every second Tuesday night. Losses of day services were also announced for Mallow on Mondays, Millstreet on Tuesdays, Macroom and Fermoy on Wednesdays and Kanturk on Thursdays, and all were announced with no consultation with staff or the public by the NAS. This was nothing short of a stunning blow to these communities, which, I might add, they did not take lying down. They came out fighting and this decision was reversed yesterday after some swift action by us all. However, it leaves many questions unanswered.

Our ambulance service workers are working incredibly hard as they continue to save lives under enormous pressure, 24-7, but morale among ambulance staff is at an all-time low. Five staff with 20 years of experience and two graded advanced paramedics have left the service in the Cork county area in the past couple of weeks. The current roll-out of the ambulance service now and in the past few years has been reduced daily to an ambulance-chasing service, getting to people's homes three or four hours after a call, when the patient is gone. Families cannot bear to see a loved one lying in agony so they take the patient in their cars or whatever transport they can find. Not a week goes by but I hear some sad and shocking stories of loved ones left waiting hours and hours for an ambulance. Only last Friday, a GAA player near Cork city lay on a pitch with a suspected spinal injury for up to two hours waiting for an ambulance.

A report published less than two weeks ago showed clearly that Cork was the worst affected area in the State for high-priority ambulance calls that took more than one hour to get to a patient. However, instead of the NAS, the Department of Health or the Minister for Health intervening to put this shocking situation right, they almost ground the service to a halt. I will give a rough idea of how the Castletownbere ambulance works, and this is just one case. It already covers Castletownbere peninsula, which is huge, and it also looks after parts of Kerry, such as Kenmare. It covers as far as Newmarket and all the way down to Goleen and Kilcrohane in west Cork. The ambulance might get a call to Newmarket but when it gets an urgent call to Goleen, the fastest it can make it is in two hours and six minutes. This ambulance, which is meant to be in Castletownbere looking after people there, when in Newmarket might get a call to Ardgroom and the quickest it can make it is in one hour and 44 minutes. That is if it does not have a patient on board; if it does, it is another hour or more to each area.

Heads have to roll at the National Ambulance Service. How can someone at the top who has mismanaged the ambulance service for years cause further havoc and walk away as if nothing has happened? The current ambulance service, which has people waiting two, three or four hours, is an appalling service. I ask the Taoiseach, on behalf of every person in our communities, to demand that the Minister for Health introduce a new model ambulance service for the public that can respond to emergencies in less than one hour, no matter where they live. In this country, your life should not be determined by where you live.

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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I thank Deputy Collins for raising the matter. The Minister for Health became aware of this on Monday morning and, as the Deputy has requested, he had intervened by Monday afternoon to resolve the matter. Once it was brought to the Minister’s attention, he took swift action. I commend him for that because this never should have happened and it was never the intention that it would happen.

As a Government, we have significantly increased investment in the National Ambulance Service and, in fact, we have increased it by 37% since 2019 or, in other words, by €63 million. The budget for the National Ambulance Service for 2024 is €231 million. When it comes to staffing levels, there are 419 additional staff working in the National Ambulance Service than there were at the end of 2019. Tens of millions of euro of additional funding and hundreds of additional people working in the National Ambulance Service is the record of this Government in terms of investment in our ambulance service.

I would like to receive information on the cases Deputy Collins referenced. It is important that he highlighted them and I thank him for doing so. I am sure we will ask the National Ambulance Service to consider them in the context of how it meets the needs of patients. The National Ambulance Service continues to experience significant growth in demand. I think 398,000 calls were received from the public last year, which is an increase of around 14% on 2019. Despite year-on-year increases in demand, the National Ambulance Service has improved service response times further this year for what it calls purple - cardiac life-threatening - and red - life-threatening - call responses. In fact, this year, it has exceeded its own key performance indicators, KPIs, published in the HSE national service plan. It gave a commitment in terms of response times and it has exceeded that commitment. It will continue to drive service improvement.

To be very clear, the Minister for Health and the Government are keen to ensure there is no reduction of emergency response ambulance services in Cork and Kerry. I regret that there was legitimate concern around that earlier this week before the Minister intervened.

Mick Barry (Cork North Central, Solidarity)
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Before people power forced you to retreat.

Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Please, Deputy.

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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Welcome back, Deputy Barry. The Minister is instead examining ways to ensure that funding is provided so that front-line services can be maintained. We will continue to work with Deputies in Cork and Kerry on this matter.

Michael Collins (Cork South West, Independent)
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I thank the Taoiseach for his reply. He said this should never have happened. This is happening on a weekly basis in Cork county and, from what I hear, it is happening on a weekly basis nationally. The Taoiseach needs to step in immediately. Members of the public in Cork county and city, and nationally, deserve nothing less than a seven-day ambulance service that they can access in no more than an hour, when required. There is a crisis in the ambulance service nationally. After last weekend's chaotic decision, it very much looks like headless chickens are in charge of the service. There is no confidence in the senior management structure of the NAS. As I said, staff morale is at an all-time low, lower than has been seen in the 20 years the staff have been working in it. General managers are dancing to directors' tunes and completely ignoring staff and patients alike. There needs to be a complete wipe-out of the current NAS senior managers, who are so caught up with power that they disregard mention of patients or patient care. Anyone who came out with cuts last weekend after such a grim report had been published two weeks previously must be removed from his or her position immediately. It has been widely said in Cork county that if it had not been an election year, this decision would not have been reversed. As the clock is ticking on people's lives, will the Taoiseach immediately intervene in this crisis and help build a new ambulance service that staff and members of the public can have confidence in?

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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With respect to the Deputy, I appreciate he is raising an important issue but he gave a view in relation to confidence and said nobody had confidence, etc. Just to be clear, I have confidence in the head of the National Ambulance Service, Robert Morton, in the management of the National Ambulance Service and in the people working in the National Ambulance Service.

Danny Healy-Rae (Kerry, Independent)
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That is why we raised this question.

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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I thank Deputy Healy-Rae for his intervention. I base that on the fact that when people give commitments as to what their targets are going to be for the year and then exceed those commitments, that is a good sign. Deputy Collins talked about the cases, and he is right to highlight them. I do not in any way dismiss them but when it comes to the published KPIs for the National Ambulance Service targets for purple and red calls, that is, life-threatening and cardiac life-threatening calls, the National Ambulance Service has exceeded those targets. To the end of July, 76% of calls in the purple area were being responded to within 19 minutes. I can understand that when something goes wrong the Deputy will want to highlight the case, as he should. We should continue to improve the services but this is an area in which we have genuinely improved service times. A lot of innovation is going on in the National Ambulance Service, with new services, the use of advanced paramedics and new training models. We will continue to invest and support the service and we look forward to doing more in the next HSE service plan.

Danny Healy-Rae (Kerry, Independent)
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Is that why-----

Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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I thank the Taoiseach. Last and by no means least, I call Deputy Michael Fitzmaurice on behalf of the Independent Group.

Michael Fitzmaurice (Roscommon-Galway, Independent)
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On a different matter, I welcome the Taoiseach's announcement the other day on Lough Funshinagh. An Bord Pleanála will get the application before Friday. I know it is three weeks late and I hope it can be expedited. I welcome it.

This evening, we will debate the Apple tax and we are talking about fair sums of money in the budget. Money does not solve every problem. In late 2022, I met Kevin and Seán, a father and son. Seán is severely autistic and non-verbal. Unfortunately, he sleeps only for short intervals. He goes out to the kitchen and he could wreck the house or go out and wreck the car. The father has other younger children who, unfortunately, have encountered difficult situations with their sibling. It is not Seán's fault.

We engaged the services and went through all the processes with the HSE. I raised this issue with the Taoiseach's colleague, the former Taoiseach, Deputy Varadkar, and the leader of Fianna Fáil, Deputy Micheál Martin, twice in the last two years. We had numerous meetings with the HSE and the Brothers of Charity at which we were promised the sun, moon and stars.

Ironically, this is not about money. I remember we were promised respite, which was provided for a while and then disappeared. Seán was tried out in a new place to see how he would go but unfortunately, because of his situation, he put his hand through a window. The operators, because they are private operators, just said they did not want it.

We were promised that the minute Seán turned 18 years and became an adult, in July, he would have a place because there was no place before that. We have had meetings with the Brothers of Charity and the HSE since January. In January, in fairness to the Minister of State, Deputy Rabbitte, and a person in the west of Ireland who is over this and whom I will not name because the person is a civil servant, the money was granted for this by the HSE. We had three meetings with the Brothers of Charity at which we talked about houses in three places. The Brothers of Charity told us they had to get the houses ready and we said that was fine. We asked them to stick with us and they said they would. This continued from February or March. When July came and Seán became an adult, the Brothers of Charity said the houses were not ready yet. They said they had to decide on a house, which would take a few more months and be gradual. We then had a bomb thrown at us when the Brothers of Charity chief wrote to the father to say they were sending the money back to the HSE and were no longer going to provide this service.

I am not criticising the person who granted the money. The money was granted by the HSE. What is going on in the charitable sectors for people with disabilities is pathetic. The way in which that youngster has been treated is pathetic. His father had to bring him to the accident and emergency unit in Galway on Monday. The psychiatric unit in Roscommon hospital would not take him. The house has been absolutely wrecked in recent days.

Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Thank you, Deputy.

Michael Fitzmaurice (Roscommon-Galway, Independent)
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The hospital in Galway said to bring him home because it did not have a bed. Is that the Ireland we have for treating people with disabilities? Are we going to change it and tell people they have a job to do and they must deliver? This is not about money; it is about delivery. It is scandalous what that father has gone through.

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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I thank Deputy Fitzmaurice for raising this important matter. First, in relation to Lough Funshinagh, I thank him for the constructive engagement he has had with the Government on the matter. I am pleased Roscommon County Council intends to submit a planning application to An Bord Pleanála this week. I have been in the homes of the people impacted. The fear they are living with is quite horrific. I am conscious winter is coming. We will all continue to work together closely on the issue. I thank the Minister of State, Deputy O'Donnell, and Roscommon County Council for their work on this matter.

The Deputy raised a very serious issue in relation to Seán. I ask that we talk further about it afterwards. While I have a long note I can read out about all the extra investment we are making in disability services and I appreciate the excellent work being done in this area by my colleague, the Minister of State, Deputy Anne Rabbitte, which the Deputy acknowledged, in many ways the story the Deputy told hits the nail on the head. Regardless of money or investment, young people, and not-so-young people, are getting lost trying to navigate a system which seems to be centred around everyone other than the person with the disability. That is why we have set up a new Cabinet committee on disability and why I am chairing it. It is why we are trying to bring everyone around the table to see that, when we make decisions in relation to investment, it goes where we expect it to go to improve service delivery. The Minister of State, Deputy Rabbitte, is passionate about that.

We are significantly increasing the money we are putting into disability services year on year, as we should. We are giving the go-ahead to increase staff year on year. We are talking more and more to organisations about what we can do. We are trying to rectify issues that section 39 disability organisations have, including increased pay to staff, which is an issue on which they have been campaigning for ages. We have taken measures as a Government to address an 8% increase. We still hear of cases like Seán's where, despite an allocation by Government to help support him, he finds himself without a service.

The best thing I can do is ask the Minister of State, Deputy Rabbitte, to engage directly with Deputy Fitzmaurice on Seán's case, as I will too. The reason he is highlighting it is not just to advocate for Seán but also to highlight a broader issue in terms of the level of reform that we need to drive and will drive in return for increased investment. We are not just going to be able to keep writing cheques without asking what impactful difference this will make to the lives of people with a disability.

Michael Fitzmaurice (Roscommon-Galway, Independent)
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The problem appears to be that if a case is a difficult one, the provider can decide that it is too much hassle and throw the money back. That is what is going on. People need to start being responsible for the jobs they have at hand. The facts at the moment are that if someone is under 18 years of age there is really no place to go. We tried everything for that youngster. It is such a sad story. When that youngster became an adult, the choices that is facing parents at the moment is that they go to an accident and emergency department, drop their child off and disown them. That is an awful thing to have to say, to try to get residential care. Alternatively, parents go to the Four Courts, down the road. Those are the two choices parents have at the moment. I see so many parents. In this instance, there is an intellectual disability. Some people need help. Parents have looked after their youngsters for many years. They have grown older. They are worried before they pass on that there would be some place to look after their children. At the moment, we have no place in this country to help those people. I have liaised with the Minister of State, Deputy Rabbitte. This is not about her or the person in the HSE in the west of Ireland. This is about a charity that is getting a lot of taxpayers' money that is not prepared to do the graft. It has told us blatant lies and not it has said that it will throw back the money and we will leave you high and dry. That is not acceptable.

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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I can hear the passion in the Deputy's voice about the situation he is working his way through. I think it highlights a broader issue about how we empower the person with a disability and their family in terms of the budget that the State allocates to them. I know the Minister, Deputy O'Gorman, and the Minister of State, Deputy Rabbitte, and others have done work in relation to this. Rather than just funding the charity or the service provider, the model of funding the individual with a personalised budget has been transformative in some areas, where we say to the young or not so young person or their family that the State is funding them and they are now empowered, rather than giving it to charity X or charity Y. Let us look further at what more we can do in relation to that model. Obviously there are residential places available and I do say that to parents, following this today. We have allocated more money this year, €15.5 million, for an additional 100 priority 1 residential placements nationally. The Deputy is quite right to highlight the issue. The demographic pressures are real in relation to this. We had a very good round-table discussion recently which involved me, the Minister, Deputy O'Gorman, the Minister of State, Deputy Rabbitte, and all disability organisations and many disability representative groups in advance of budget 2025. We will reflect on the Deputy's comments and liaise directly with him on Seán.