Pearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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I thank the Minister, Deputy O'Gorman, for staying for this Topical Issue matter.

The next facet of the defective blocks crisis emerging in County Donegal is that within community childcare facilities. Raphoe Community Playgroup has already been forced out of the building it owns due to the fact that it was condemned, and it now has to fundraise to find a permanent home. This is despite me standing in this very spot back in May and raising this issue with the junior Minister at that time through another Topical Issue matter. Letterkenny community playgroup is in a race against time to find a new home and Ardara community playgroup has been given six to eight months before its building is condemned as well. In fact, some in the industry have claimed that as much as 40% of all childcare facilities in County Donegal may have to close in the coming years because of this issue.

As the Minister will know, there are huge waiting lists for childcare facilities in Donegal. Just what does this mean if we are seeing places closing down because they are being condemned as a result of defective blocks? Currently, the childcare sector in County Donegal does not have the capacity to meet the demand for all places, and all services in all areas have waiting lists. This will worsen because of the closures due to defective concrete blocks. Approximately 45 children attend the playgroup in Raphoe, 100 children attend the playgroup in Ardara and 150 attend the playgroup in Letterkenny. These organisations have all been hit with the same thing. There are defective blocks in these premises, some of which are already condemned and where people have had to move out and others in which the clock is ticking down. These organisations are not included in the Government's flawed defective block redress scheme for houses as their buildings are classed as commercial buildings even though they are not-for-profit. They are not alone. Many other community and charity organisations in County Donegal are in the same position. Indeed, we understand that many other playgroups and crèches are in the same position, but they have not made that position public yet. The Government has not provided any real support or advice for community organisations affected by this crisis. The Minister talks about vision in public service and all the rest. This is a not-for-profit sector in County Donegal that does not know where it is going to go. It is completely in limbo. The Minister has had time to try to get to grips with this situation. Government was warned years ago that these buildings had defective concrete blocks and would soon not be safe for the children to be in. The Letterkenny community playgroup did tests that found they had a high percentage of deleterious material in their blocks back in 2019. That was five years ago. The Minister's Department was told about this at the time. People have been campaigning on this issue now for five years. This news should not have come out of the blue when I raised it again with the Department back in March. These childcare facilities have to resort to staging a protest on the local elections polling day to get the Government's attention. In an interview on a Donegal radio station just before the local election, the Taoiseach promised that he would personally engage with the Minister and the Departments of children and housing to see what solution could be found. What is the result of those engagements? We have heard absolutely nothing. Has a solution been found and, if so, can these childcare facilities be told as soon as possible? It is currently the Minister, Deputy O'Gorman's, Department that has to pick up all the pieces in this regard. It concerns his Department, Pobal and the local childcare committees. Can the Minister outline exactly what measures have been taken to address this and what supports will be provided to these community playgroups and other community groups that will likely be in the same position? This is not a one-off situation. I raised the issue of Raphoe here many months ago and I told the Government that it was not a one-off situation. I am now telling the Minister about Letterkenny. The Government knew that from five years ago. I am now telling him about Ardara, and I guarantee that we will be in here, either myself or Deputy McLochlainn, telling the Government about other community playgroups in County Donegal that have defective blocks. These buildings are crumbling, and they have been condemned. This is a serious issue. People had a fundraiser. They got money from Interreg, PEACE funding and, in some cases, departmental funding to actually build these buildings.

They have nowhere to go. They do not know what the future is. The staff and parents do not know. The Government has no scheme or answers for them. That is not good enough. The Minister stands there and talks about vision and public service childcare. A not-for-profit sector is operating here. They have no help. They have been abandoned by the Minister's Department on this. It is not fair. I hope the Minister has answers for them tonight.

Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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The Department works with Pobal and local childcare committees to offer case management supports to services in difficulty. Through this process, services may also access sustainability funding following an assessment of need. One strand of this funding can support a service with the cost of relocation. Pobal and Donegal County Childcare Committee are in communication with Ardara Community Childcare regarding the issue of defective blocks and these supports. In the first instance Donegal County Childcare Committee will assist the service in trying to source a suitable alternative location. If a suitable alternative location is sourced, the Department will engage with Pobal and the childcare committee regarding the service and assist in funding a relocation through the case management process. A new strand of emergency capital for fit-out and renovation of premises or necessary maintenance is being developed by the Department. The purpose of this funding will be to support the completion of essential, emergency capital works in community early learning and care and school-age childcare settings that are core funding partner services. Eligible services will be those that are unable to afford the costs of remedial works necessary to ensure the service meets its regulatory requirements and remains financially viable in the long term. The service will submit a rationale for the need and provide evidence of need and eligibility for the funding. It is anticipated that this capital funding will be used to provide support to eligible service providers that are unable to afford the costs of essential remedial works. This includes critical fire safety works and emergency capital projects, both internal and external.

As we know, the safety of children and staff is paramount, and the Department has been assured that this service will have inspections from engineers annually. The service will not be able to operate if it is deemed unsafe to do so. The Department will continue to engage with Pobal, local childcare committees and services in order to support services that have been affected by mica. This is a unique situation, and each service will need to be supported on an individual basis. The Department has recognised the need to have a capital funding stream to deal with emergency situations such as the one Deputy Doherty outlined and the one Deputy Barry has raised in north Cork. This is a strand of funding we are devising to be ready to meet these particular needs. It is a new strand of funding and that is a clear recognition of need in situations like this.

Pearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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We have not seen the Minister's capital funding or its criteria, but he described it as critical fire safety works and other emergency capital projects, both internal and external. Does the Minister understand what is happening with these buildings? These buildings are going to be demolished. Big JCBs are going to come in and tear them to the grand. They have to; the blocks are rotten and they are crumbling. This is not a matter of fire doors or issues in terms of fire escapes, or the type of scheme the Minister has talked about, which is welcome. A separate funding stream is required as a result of deleterious materials. This results from light-touch and no-touch regulation overseen by successive Governments. That is the problem here. The core issue is being ignored by the Minister's Department. He is trying to tell them. We have had these conversations with the operators. The Minister is telling them that there is a scheme here and that it is the same scheme as that for a private operator that needs fire stops in its doors. That is just bonkers. When will Raphoe Community Playgroup and the playgroups in Letterkenny and Ardara have clarity that they can build the playgroups that they owned, from top to bottom? It is not good enough that they are left in limbo. I said that these people have had to raise funds. They had to scrimp and scrape to build a premises in the first instance. One playgroup has been told that it will cost a €1 million to rebuild its premises. Will the Minister's fund allow them to rebuild their premises for €1 million? Will 100% be available to those premises? Is that what the Minister is talking about? If it is not, that is just waffle. They need to know and they need certainty. It is not acceptable that they have been left in this situation. There are concerns about staff facilities. The Minister spoke about relocation. That is the second time when I have raised this issue that the Minister mentioned relocation. What the community wants and what parents and children want is to be able to go to the facilities in their communities. It is not their fault that the buildings are crumbling. It is actually the State's fault. It is the Government's fault that those types of blocks were allowed to come onto the market and that the money they raised, got and fought for is now worthless.

Catherine Connolly (Galway West, Independent)
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Thank you, Deputy.

Pearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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It is a very clear question. This has gone on for ages. People from Letterkenny said five years ago that their building was falling down. People from Raphoe are already out of theirs and people in Ardara have a clock of about six months. There are many others.

Catherine Connolly (Galway West, Independent)
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Go raibh maith agat, a Theachta.

Pearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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I will finish now. Will there be a funding scheme that will provide 100% funding to rebuild the entire premises when they are condemned and have to be knocked to the ground?

Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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Until this year, the sole capital funding coming from my Department for early years services was for the building of new services or extensions to existing services. My Department and I, as Minister, have recognised that when a service requires major work - I am not talking about fire safety doors - there is a need for a fund to support community services. The situation outlined by Deputy Doherty, where there is going to have to be a complete rebuild, and the situation outlined by Deputy Barry, where very significant renovations are required, fall within those categories. That is why we are devising this new capital funding scheme. We are working on it. We will be in a position, in the near future, to provide details to services like the ones the Deputies outlined. We are engaging with the Cork childcare committee as well in terms of services in north Cork. This is a new stream recognising the seriousness of these matters and putting financial supports in place to enable that to be addressed.

Mick Barry (Cork North Central, Solidarity)
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How soon?

Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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My understanding in the case of north Cork is that there is engagement between Pobal and the childcare committee on a resolution. In terms of the services Deputy Doherty raised, I will inquire with my Department on the engagement with the childcare committee. It is important to recognise the need to have flexibility and that has been recognised in the terms of the use of our capital funding. This is why a new sustainability capital fund has been introduced.