Darren O'Rourke (Meath East, Sinn Fein)
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I thank the Ceann Comhairle for selecting this Topical Issue. Much has been said on waste management services, bin collections and the services that are provided. There are very significant issues with them, including complications, contradictions, inefficiencies, and side-by-side collection. A huge number of people do not have a bin service. We have a significant challenge and problem with illegal dumping. It falls on councils to pick up the tab for that. In the meantime, prices are increasing for ordinary workers and families because bin collection services have been privatised, for a very long time in some areas and in the likes of Dublin for a little more than a decade. We have a situation where the Competition and Consumer Protection Commission, CCPC, made recommendations in 2018 for a regulator, which never happened. Subsequent reports by the Dublin City Council working group comparing Dublin with other cities state that Dublin is like the Wild West when it comes to waste collection services and bin services, with multiple competitors literally driving up and down the street beside each other, which is unique.

In addition to that, and the issue we will talk about, is the introduction of the deposit return scheme. We introduced that scheme because the current system is not working. It is failing. We are not meeting recycling targets. We want to increase recycling rates and not have contaminated product, such as what we have in the current system. We want clean product. The deposit return scheme has been introduced, which includes a levy on individual plastic bottles and aluminium cans. Those have now been taken out of the recycling bin system. We now know, thanks to the reporting of Caroline O'Doherty in the Irish Independent and others, that there is a likelihood or prospect that private profits or revenue will be lost by the waste and bin companies because of the introduction of the deposit return scheme. In other words, since the profitable element of collecting aluminium and plastic bottles put in the recycling bin has now been lost to the deposit return scheme, a claim is being made that those lost revenues should be subsidised by the taxpayer or the cost be passed on to customers.

I listened to Irish Waste Management Association representatives at the Oireachtas committee last Tuesday who said it is now inevitable that bin charges will increase to make up for the lost revenues that have gone to the deposit return scheme. That is an absolute insult to injury for people who are engaging in good faith, although there is frustration, with the deposit return scheme. There is a taxation element and a levy associated with that. The idea that they will be charged more for a bin that they are now using less to guarantee the profits of waste companies is insulting.

On behalf of the communities I represent, I want to know what the Government is doing to ensure that bin companies are not given a profit guarantee and that customers are not penalised for doing the right thing.

Jennifer Carroll MacNeill (Dún Laoghaire, Fine Gael)
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I would like to thank Deputy O’Rourke for raising this important matter, as I welcome the opportunity to respond to media reports claiming that some waste collection providers may increase household-waste collection charges as a result of the introduction of the deposit return scheme, DRS. The introduction of the DRS for plastic bottles and aluminium cans is a positive consumer-behaviour initiative, similar to the plastic bags initiative, or the ban on harmful cigarette smoke in our workplaces. It does two vital things; it reduces litter and combats the scourge of single-use plastics on the environment. These bottles and cans are a high-volume component of litter. A report commissioned by the Department in 2020, showed that cans and single-use plastics accounted for 675 tonnes of litter per year. The report also indicated that a suitable scheme could reduce the littering of these containers by 95%.

The scheme is going well and we now see return rates regularly exceeding 3 million and cans - I did not know there were that many, but there you go. The scheme has been accepted and over time, I believe it will make a difference to our overall environmental performance. The Government does not believe it would be fair if this success results in the waste collection industry raising the prices of household-waste collection and the Government does not accept that such price raises are inevitable, or merited at this time. There is no reason our current system of kerbside collection cannot work successfully alongside the DRS.

Waste collection charges are affected by many things, including staff, fuel costs, gate fees and commodities prices. While the Government has no role in relation to price setting, there is a need for greater transparency by waste collection providers on pricing for householders and businesses. We need transparency and we need fairness and I note the Minister of State, Deputy Smyth, is considering regulatory options for greater transparency around charging, if all waste collectors are not prepared to do this voluntarily, by publishing comprehensive details of their pricing structures on their websites for the information of householders.

The Minister of State and the Department are engaging with the Irish Waste Management Association, IWMA, and other stakeholders to conduct an evidence-based process to quantify what substantive impact, if any, the introduction of the DRS may have on the waste collection system in Ireland over the longer term. This process must be allowed to reach a conclusion. The Department is awaiting detailed data from the waste collection industry to support its position.

I will move on to a more general discussion of household waste collection charges. Private waste collectors operate under a waste collection permit issued by the National Waste Collection Permit Office, NWCPO. These permits include a requirement that waste collection charging systems should incentivise customers to segregate their waste. Therefore, the fees charged for the collection of general residual waste should be higher than the fees charged for the collection of the brown food bin or mixed dry recyclables bin. The terms and conditions of individual waste-collection contracts are matters between the waste collection companies and their customers, subject to compliance with the terms of their NWCPO permit.

With the support of the Department, the NWCPO has engaged a research consultancy to carry out a study on incentivised charging for waste collection. This study, to be completed before the end of 2024, will inform options for providing greater clarity to households and businesses around costs and charging.

Darren O'Rourke (Meath East, Sinn Fein)
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On 30 April this year, the Minister of State, Deputy Smyth, was appeared before the Oireachtas committee. In response to questions about this, he said that people will have a lower volume and lower weight in their bins, that the majority of waste collectors now charge by weight or volume, rather than a fixed fee, and that the cost of waste removal should come down. This reflects what most people would understand and would have expected in relation to this. At the same time though, the Minister of State must have been aware that his Department had given a commitment to work with stakeholders, to monitor and review the impacts of the DRS and its possible effects on kerbside collection, with a view to ensuring, inter alia, that the DRS does not lead to increased household waste collection costs. The commitment is to make sure costs do not increase and we welcome this. The Minister of State said that he would expect them to decrease.

The Irish Waste Management Association, IWMA, seems to understand that as a protection of its status quo and that it points to a commitment from the Minister of State to a mutually beneficial outcome in relation to this. I welcome the fact that the Minister of State, Deputy MacNeill, is saying that the Government position is that there should not be an increase in costs. The question then is: how will the Government ensure that is that is the case, when the industry itself thinks it has a commitment from Government to the contrary, or at least a subsidy, if there is not to be an increase passed on to customers? At the same time the Minister of State came to the committee on Tuesday and said that it was now inevitable that costs would increase. I appreciate that the Minister of State does not want to negotiate in public here, but customers want to hear an assurance from Government that their waste collection charges will not be increased as a direct result of the introduction of the DRS.

Jennifer Carroll MacNeill (Dún Laoghaire, Fine Gael)
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I presume the Deputy is supportive of the DRS?

Darren O'Rourke (Meath East, Sinn Fein)
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Yes, of course.

Jennifer Carroll MacNeill (Dún Laoghaire, Fine Gael)
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The DRS is a good idea and there is a way in which it has to be managed and rolled out. As the Deputy has heard me say, and as customers will also hear me say, that if the success of the DRS results in the waste collection industry raising the price for households, the Government does not accept that such prices are inevitable, as the Deputy has said, nor merited. I just want to be very clear on this. What individual stakeholders may believe is not what the Government position is, which I am clearly elucidating here and will do so again, for the benefit of the House and everybody else. The Government does not believe it would be fair if this success results in the waste collection industry raising the prices of household waste collection and we absolutely do not accept that such price raises are inevitable or indeed merited at this time. There is no reason, particularly in circumstances of a rising population, our current system of kerbside collection cannot work successfully alongside the DRS. This is a process of adaptation for everybody, but it will work. Waste collection charges are affected by many things, including staff and fuel costs, gate fees and commodities prices. While the Government has no role in relation to price setting, as the Minister of State said, there is a greater need for transparency. I suggest this greater need for transparency exists, irrespective of the introduction, or not, of the DRS. Transparency and fairness are important and the Minister of State, Deputy Smyth, is considering regulatory options for greater transparency, if all waste collectors are not prepared to do this voluntarily by publishing comprehensive details of their pricing structures on their websites for the information of householders. The Minister of State expects voluntary co-operation with making sure that this is a completely transparent process, that people know the exact costs and the input costs into the different models, that there are clearly incentivised structures for waste segregation and that those are clearly communicated to customers. I am saying on the Minister of State's behalf that there is no reason costs need to go up and that there is a good reason for increased transparency.