Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Leas-Cheann Comhairle for allowing me to bring this matter up. I also thanks the Ceann Comhairle once again. I know it may sound boring at this stage. It is ten months since the origin of the problem. Since then, all representatives of County Kildare have had to bring the matter before the House. We are becoming impatient and understandably so. The situation continues, with no movement towards resolution. Resolution is in the hands of the OPW in the minds of the local people and the public representatives too. I attended a meeting last week with the protestors who have protested the actions of the OPW, wherein they put forward a proposal. They requested that a meeting take place as quickly as possible between their appointed delegation of four and the Minister of State with responsibility for the Office of Public Works, along with the county council chief executive officer. This is the most likely way to bring about progress, which is sorely needed at this stage.

We have spent almost a year talking around the subject but we have not tried to resolve it. The fact remains that, in the meantime, the house is deteriorating and will deteriorate further. The works that have to continue in that kind of situation are slowed and stalled. What is happening now is not in the interests of the preservation of Castletown House or the Castletown collection. There are all kinds of reasons. The main one is access by the officials of the OPW to Castletown House, its gardens and its approximately 235 acres. We are told that access is impeded by virtue of the adjoining landowner who took over from the previous landowner and has now called for a gateway across the previously used avenue, which the OPW negotiated with the previous owner. The county council and the OPW have stated emphatically on numerous occasions that they have no problem with that and they have an alternative entrance. They do not, however. They had one 300 years ago when the traffic levels there were not like what they are now. Now the only answer is to direct the traffic out on the main street of Celbridge, which is heavily trafficked already, and which has a problem dealing with the existing traffic.

As well as that, the issue that needs to be dealt with is how to move forward. There are various ways of going forward that I believe we should be testing now. There is the legal route, in order for the State to protect its interests in its own property. Remember that the State is the owner of the property. It is not some outside body with vague connections to the house. The State needs to protect the property. It also needs to recognise that the public has used that property. It is a local amenity. It is of historical value, heritage value, and value to people from all over this country and across the globe. In those circumstances of allowing a situation to prevail where nothing happens and everybody stands around wringing their hands and wondering what will happen next, it is time for the OPW to take the initiative and firmly put this back in the place where it should be.

Kieran O'Donnell (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
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I thank Deputy Durkan for raising this. I have been in this role for a relatively short period. I will not go over the script I have been provided. I will give my thoughts, which are that I have been in this role for a short period and have come to this as an honest broker. I have had three meetings of the working group. I want people to work collaboratively. I have come in with no preconceived views on it.

I am on record with the group as saying that Lime Avenue is for pedestrian access and it will continue to be that. We need to get the staff back in to protect Castletown House and grounds. I think we all agree on that. I take my instructions from the group, which were to engage with the people who had purchased the land. The land had come up for sale and the OPW was outbid for the land. I would have liked to have seen the OPW purchase the land. It did not happen. I was asked by the group to approach the landowners, which I have done. A body of work is being done in that regard. I am taking my views from the group collectively. That is something I was provided with.

The Deputy is correct that the access point from the M4 is the obvious access point. The fact is that it is privately owned. It was previously privately owned but the OPW had a licence agreement for its operation. It is the obvious way in which one would like to see that. We want to see Castletown House and the grounds be united. We have committed to looking at other possible temporary access points, including Lime Avenue, but once again I will go with the view of the group to get temporary access to get staff back in, so that we can bring the grounds and Castletown House up to par. The Deputy is correct. I want to see the access point come through the M4. It is the obvious view. There is already a parking area.

I can only go with the advice I have been given. I am open to pursuing all avenues. That is my role as a public representative. I have deliberately gone to meet the group as Minister of State. I have met the working group three times. The OPW has sought legal advice about whether it has a right of way over the lands formerly managed under licence. As entry to and over the land was by permission, no such rights have accrued, and therefore the OPW cannot enforce a right of way by injunction or other means over these privately owned lands. That is what I am being advised.

I am aware, through my engagement with the working group, that a local community group has requested Kildare County Council to consider recognising a right of way over these lands but I am not aware of progress to date. I am being advised that the OPW does not have compulsory purchase order powers. I gave a commitment at the last meeting of the working group that I would meet Kildare County Council, which I want to happen and am looking to arrange that. I went through the effort.

I have tried to work collectively with the group. I fully understand the Lime Avenue issue. We need to get staff back in to deal with restoring the house. I would like the access point from the M4 to be there straight away but there is a timing factor. Whatever route we go will take time. I remain fully committed to working with Deputy Durkan and everyone on the working group to find a resolution here.

Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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I realise, appreciate and acknowledge that the Minister of State is an honest broker. I would not like to think that I might be observed as a dishonest broker. I am an elected public representative for the area. I convey the views to the House that people have conveyed to me. That is the position that any public representative has. I specifically ask if the Minister of State will meet with a group who see themselves as protectors of the house, with justification, and the county council, all together, so at least all the constituent parties can be under the one roof with their feet under the table at the same time in order to establish what has not been established over the last 12 months, which is progress. Progress is needed now, lest the situation become a long-term issue, which it very well can.

The State is an owner of the property. The OPW owns the property of 230 acres, including the house, gardens and land. The State is as much entitled to defend its own right to access and egress as anybody else is. It is just one group of two.

In this case, the local people have no difficulty in acknowledging the right to accommodate the adjoining landowner, provided the State has access. The OPW has ambitious plans for the area - up to 1 million people are to pass through on an annual basis and a huge contribution towards employment and local cultural organisations, etc. Will the Minister try to arrange a meeting with the local groups and the county council with the local authority chief executive?

Kieran O'Donnell (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
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I would never question the Deputy's bona fides, as, I have no doubt, he would not question mine.

Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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I acknowledge your bona fides.

Kieran O'Donnell (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
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I acknowledge yours.

Danny Healy-Rae (Kerry, Independent)
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Two honest brokers.

Kieran O'Donnell (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
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I am doing my level best. At the end of the day, there is a working group. I met the group twice and am hoping to meet it again shortly with the Deputy and others. I am open to meeting any group but I inherited a situation where a working group was established that was multifactoral across the spectrum in the community. I want to work. The Deputy is correct: the M4 is the access point. I want to go through a process to get to that point. My motives are genuine. I want to work with everyone. I want to have a meeting with the overall working group to see once again what is the best approach. If people decide they want to work separately, I have no issue with that. My main objectives are what I can do to get the staff back in the short term and what we can do to get an access point and permanent parking in Castletown House and Gardens. The M4 is the obvious solution. The question is how to make that happen. I was asked by the group to approach the owners of the land, which I did. I agreed to go back to them through the OPW and report back to the group. We will take it from there. Ultimately, we have to get a resolution whereby there is permanent access and permanent parking. I am conscious of how important Castletown and the grounds are to the people of the wider area and the people the Deputy represents.

Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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Most people believe the working group is a contradiction; it is not working.