Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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46. To ask the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform if he is planning budgetary measures to address the problem of staff shortages across key areas of the public service, and the pressure these shortages are putting on existing staff and the quality of services for the public; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [29516/24]

Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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67. To ask the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform the public expenditure measures he is considering in the forthcoming budget to address the growing problem of labour and skill shortages; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [29517/24]

Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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Many areas of important public services such as mental health, disability, special needs, the health service and schools have chronic problems in recruiting and retaining enough people. We have staff shortages and this leads to a lot of hardship for many people who need those public services. Has the Minister any plans, especially in the context of the upcoming budget, to address this problem?

Paschal Donohoe (Dublin Central, Fine Gael)
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I propose to take Questions Nos. 46 and 67 together.

I thank the Deputy. The main way we have of addressing the challenges to which he referred is through the pay agreements that are in place up to 2026, aiming to bring forward wage increases of more than 10% over a two-and-a-half year period. That will be accompanied by the continued investment the Government will put in place in building new homes, in making sure those who are working in our country, particularly working within our public services, have a better hope in the future of being able to buy and afford a home, so it is better wages and building more homes.

Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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In my opinion that is not enough. It is not working. The child and disability network teams are chronically understaffed. They cannot recruit and retain people. CAMHS teams have half the staff they need. We had school principals in the Houses last week saying they and teachers are burnt out and stressed and they cannot recruit people. They are actually relying on people who are unqualified in teaching because they cannot actually get teachers. It is a similar picture in the health service.

The consequences of course are dire for service users. There are long waiting lists. I brought up a case today with the Taoiseach of a woman whose five-year-old was diagnosed in 2023 with an intellectual disability and autism. She got an appointment for speech and language therapy in July 2024. However, she then received a letter saying she is not getting it until January 2026. This is because of staff shortages. We need to do more.

Paschal Donohoe (Dublin Central, Fine Gael)
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Of course I accept and am aware that we have many cases across our public services of patients who are being let down and of constituents who are not receiving the attention and care we believe they should. However, the analysis the Deputy put forward, that this is due to our inability to recruit and keep staff, is completely at odds with the reality of what has happened in the growth of our public services. In 2015, we had 301,589 whole-time equivalents working within our public service. By the end of last year, that figure had risen to 397,000. Therefore we have around 95,000 more people working in our public services. That is not a public service that is struggling to recruit or retain people. There is a bigger and growing public service. By the end of this year there will be more than 407,000 people working in the public service in Ireland. I am not for a moment diminishing the individual and important cases the Deputy is raising of those who are not getting the public services they want.

There are more people than ever working in our public services.

Catherine Connolly (Galway West, Independent)
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We are way over time.

Paschal Donohoe (Dublin Central, Fine Gael)
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It is growing, and we are able to recruit and keep people.

Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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It is true the public service has grown. After the disastrous austerity cuts, the Government had to go into reverse-----

Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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Austerity.

Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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-----because of the damage it did after the economic crash. However, in key areas I have mentioned - CAMHS, CDNTs, teachers, nurses, allied health professionals - we have a serious problem. This is causing immense hardship for the service users. There are long waiting lists and double whammies for people with special needs and disability. The kids and parents get hit in education, and then in the services supposed to be provided by the HSE. That is compounded by things we will be dealing with in the next question about section 39 workers not getting the same pay and conditions as other workers, which is absolutely crazy. The housing crisis is hitting them and is a major reason they cannot people they need, and lots of young people qualified in these areas are leaving the country. We have to do more. There is no point in saying it is all hunky-dory because it is far from it.

Paschal Donohoe (Dublin Central, Fine Gael)
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I never said it was hunky-dory. The Deputy should not put words in my mouth.

Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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Okay, well-----

Paschal Donohoe (Dublin Central, Fine Gael)
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I never said that. I acknowledged, stood up and said the Deputy was raising real issues but he should not put words in my mouth or suggest for a moment that I am not taking seriously the issues he is raising. What I am simply saying is that creating the image that our public services overall cannot get and keep people is wrong. It is wrong to say that.

The wages we are now offering in the public service are a combination of the increases we have been able to provide, and public service agreements, one after the other. Every single one of them, I think, the Deputy opposed.

Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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Every single one of what?

Paschal Donohoe (Dublin Central, Fine Gael)
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The wage agreements we have brought in. The Deputy has always said they are not enough.

Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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They are not enough.

Paschal Donohoe (Dublin Central, Fine Gael)
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He has always said they are not enough. We are now paying our public servants, across many parts of our public services, wages that are easily comparable with what is available in other parts of Europe, and in many cases ahead. I want to make that case regarding the scale of and funding for our public services.