Rose Conway-Walsh (Mayo, Sinn Fein)
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38. To ask the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform whether he has any plan to extend the remit of the Comptroller and Auditor General to public bodies such as RTÉ; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [29546/24]

Rose Conway-Walsh (Mayo, Sinn Fein)
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What plans does the Minister have to extend the remit of the Comptroller and Auditor General to public bodies such as RTÉ? As soon as the RTÉ scandal broke we in Sinn Féin called on the Government to bring the broadcaster under the remit of the Comptroller and Auditor General, the State auditor. When will this be done?

Paschal Donohoe (Dublin Central, Fine Gael)
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I thank Deputy Conway-Walsh. On 7 May last, the Government agreed in principle to the recommendation of the expert advisory committee which conducted the review of the governance and culture of RTÉ to assign the Comptroller and Auditor General as auditor of RTÉ. The Minister Deputy Catherine Martin, in a statement accompanying the publication of the expert advisory committee review, confirmed she would begin work immediately to implement the recommendations which require action by her Department. As part of this, she set out her intention to prepare and bring detailed proposals to Government to reform the legislation governing RTÉ, including to assign the Comptroller and Auditor General as auditor of RTÉ.

The reassignment of the Comptroller and Auditor General requires legislative amendments to the Broadcasting Act 2009. It also requires a significant amendment to the Comptroller and Auditor (Amendment) Act 1993, which I can make by ministerial order or directly through primary legislation. The Department of Tourism, Culture, Arts, Gaeltacht, Sport and Media is working to establish the most effective means to implement this recommendation. I understand the Minister will bring forward the general scheme of a Bill in autumn to give effect to this and other legislative recommendations of the review.

In relation to commercial State bodies in general, Deputy Conway-Walsh is aware that section 1438 of the Companies Act 2014 provides that companies not trading for the gain of their members may be audited by the Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General, while only regulated private sector audit firms can act as statutory auditors for companies, including public enterprises, that have been set up for commercial gain under the Companies Acts. The extension of the Comptroller and Auditor General's remit to audit commercial public bodies that have other audit arrangements in place needs to be considered on a case-by-case basis by each Minister. Following such a review, if he or she considers it appropriate, a Minister can bring the body under the remit of the Comptroller and Auditor General in the way I have indicated.

Rose Conway-Walsh (Mayo, Sinn Fein)
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It is very important this is done. It is important that it is done in conjunction with the future funding model of RTÉ. There is no better form of financial oversight and it would immediately increase the transparency and accountability needed to restore confidence. This is why we produced the necessary legislation in the weeks following the scandal. It is a simple and direct measure.

I was surprised in the media committee, when I put it to the chief executive of RTÉ, that the Government had not been in touch about RTÉ coming under the remit of the Comptroller and Auditor General. That should happen more quickly. We should not be waiting to see what should happen.

Sinn Féin has been clear about how we would reform the funding and how we would have oversight in RTÉ. I welcome that the position has somewhat changed in respect of extending the remit of the Comptroller and Auditor General to RTÉ since I first raised it with the Minister. However, it is decision time now on RTÉ. There should be no more reports or delays. The public wants to see a plan in place and the Government promised that plan would be in place before the summer recess. That is why holding on until the autumn or later is not what people expect.

Paschal Donohoe (Dublin Central, Fine Gael)
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The Minister, Deputy Catherine Martin, and I are engaging with one another on the future funding of RTÉ. The aim of the Government is to reach a decision on the matter before the end of this month.

With regard to the enhanced oversight arrangements, as I said in my answer a moment ago, my understanding is that the Minister will bring forward the legislation to implement this recommendation, but it will take a little longer. The general scheme will be brought forward in the autumn of this year. That will be a significant moment in changing the oversight and governance arrangements around RTÉ. The Minister is working hard to do so at the moment.

Rose Conway-Walsh (Mayo, Sinn Fein)
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I welcome that it is happening, but it should happen this week to give the Dáil and the media committee a chance to debate the proposal.

Sinn Féin has called on the Government to scrap the television licence, as the Minister will be aware, and to fund RTÉ and other broadcast services directly because the TV licence is outdated and regressive. It is wrong that people are dragged through the courts for not paying for a TV licence when no one was held accountable for the misuse of public money in RTÉ. There is no excuse for the Government not to take action or not to treat this as urgent. When we asked questions last week, we heard again that more and more people are not paying for their TV licences. The gap in funding in RTÉ is a serious matter and we cannot provide more funding without having the accountability and transparency that would be provided by RTÉ coming under the remit of the State auditor, the Comptroller and Auditor General.

Paschal Donohoe (Dublin Central, Fine Gael)
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The Government is committed to bringing forward enhanced accountability. I have just informed the Dáil of the timeline for the Minister, Deputy Catherine Martin, to bring forward that legislation. On the Deputy's view and that of her party on the abolition of the television licence, I do not understand the argument that the funding gap that is currently in RTÉ will be improved by the abolition of a licence that the majority of people still pay for. I cannot understand the logic of that.

Rose Conway-Walsh (Mayo, Sinn Fein)
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It is accountability.

Paschal Donohoe (Dublin Central, Fine Gael)
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We have a licence for which the majority of people still pay, despite all the difficulty in RTÉ and Sinn Féin's view is that the funding situation will be improved by the abolition of a charge that most people, albeit reluctantly, are still willing to pay. I do not understand that approach or why it would improve where we are. I have heard again and again the case for credible, long-term funding for RTÉ and other public media. It appears that we would be moving away from that, if we were to get rid of a charge that still provides needed funding for RTÉ.