Brendan Smith (Cavan-Monaghan, Fianna Fail)
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12. To ask the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport the progress in rolling out the local area hackney scheme; if further consideration will be given to the provision of hackney services in rural communities where it is not feasible to have a bus service; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [28640/24]

Brendan Smith (Cavan-Monaghan, Fianna Fail)
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It is very welcome that there has been a substantial increase in Local Link services throughout rural Ireland in recent years. The Minister has placed a particular emphasis on public transport, and I welcome that. There are areas where it is not feasible to have a bus service. There are people - many elderly people and so on - who do not have immediate family support and do not have their own transport. They have to get a hackney or a taxi to go about their weekly business or whatever.

If a system was brought in to partially grant-aid local hackney services, it would be a big help to many people on low incomes who do not have their own transport.

Eamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
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The regulation of the small public service vehicle, SPSV, industry is a matter for the independent transport regulator, the National Transport Authority, under the provisions of the Taxi Regulation Act 2013 as amended by the Public Transport Act 2016. As Minister, I am not involved in the day-to-day operations of the industry.

While transport service provision has improved in both rural and urban areas, it is recognised that public bus transport cannot meet the travel demands of many people in rural Ireland. Taxis and hackneys therefore have an important role to play in meeting travel demand in rural areas. The NTA issues local area hackney licences where applicants can show that there is a need for this part-time service and that it does not displace or replace current SPSV providers. Both driver and vehicle regulatory requirements and costs pertaining to LAH licences are lower than those under the standard hackney regime. A resident of the area where the LAH licence is sought is not required to undertake the industry knowledge or area knowledge tests that normally apply to those seeking SPSV driver licences. LAH drivers must be licensed and their vehicles must be licensed and insured. There are 21 licensed LAH drivers and 25 licensed LAH vehicles active nationwide as of 31 May 2024.

The LAH pilot scheme launched by the NTA in January 2023 was a €6,000 grant-aided initiative to support rural transport needs where existing transport services were found to be lacking. A local area hackney may only pick up passengers within a designated area of approximately 10 km from a chosen point and may not pick up a new fare at a drop-off point or any other point outside its designated area. Despite significant work by the NTA, only two operators were licensed under the pilot, which ended in May this year. The NTA is currently reviewing the outcome.

Separately, the NTA is currently procuring a digital platform for access to rural open public transport, the smart DRT pilot, as part of Connecting Ireland. This platform is expected to both improve people’s access to open public transport and provide automated and optimised bus service routing and scheduling in rural areas.

Brendan Smith (Cavan-Monaghan, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Minister for his reply. It is clear the pilot programme that was rolled out was not very attractive. It has obviously been a complete failure. The Minister mentioned the transport regulator. Over the years, successive Governments have given far too many powers away to entities and statutory agencies. We need to make decisions at the political level. Most of the Minister's constituents can access light rail, the DART or the Luas, and other public transport options. A hell of a lot of my constituents, decent people, have a free travel pass but may never have availed of it in their lives because they are neither next nor near a public transport service. On a Friday morning, I may meet people who have got a taxi to my town to collect their pension, do some shopping and so on. If those people have to take a taxi a few times a week, it will cost them a big portion of their pension payment. Surely it is within the capacity of the Government and the Oireachtas to devise a system that would provide some assistance towards local hackney or taxi costs to assist people who have never had the opportunity to make use of their free travel passes. That is a great initiative introduced many decades ago but a large cohort of our pensioners are not able to avail of that particular facility. Consideration should be given to providing some help for those people when they have to go on their weekly or twice-weekly trip to the local village or town, sometimes to go to mass, church or whatever. I again emphasise that, for pensioners on a small income, paying for hackneys or taxis can mean that a substantial slice of their income for the week is gone.

Eamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
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I absolutely agree. We have to provide good quality public transport and transport services for all our people. I deeply regret that the local hackney pilot scheme was not successful. The Deputy is correct about that. The uptake was far lower than we wanted. We will review that and come back with further iterations. When something does not work, we can at least learn why it did not. Although the review is ongoing and I do not want to pre-empt it, I get the sense that the conditions were probably too restrictive as regards ability to pick up other passengers and so on. Those conditions were imposed out of a desire not to undermine the business case for other taxi drivers in rural areas. We will make adjustments and try again. In the meantime, we have introduced an incredible increase in rural public transport services through the Connecting Ireland system. It is not as if this is the only solution. However, we do need a better taxi service in rural areas. We absolutely accept that and will do everything we can to improve it. As to how to do that, I believe it is appropriate for the Government to set policy and provide funding but also to work with agencies like the NTA. I find the NTA works very well. The system is working for us in this iterative way. We try things and, if they do not work, we come back and try again.

Brendan Smith (Cavan-Monaghan, Fianna Fail)
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I am glad the Minister agrees that we need to address the issue of there not being a public transport service for those people living in remote areas who do not have a family member or even a neighbour next to or near them. They need assistance. That must be driven politically. It will not be driven by any statutory agency or Government Department. I appeal to the Minister to make use of his political power and to give instructions to the relevant agencies to come up with a realistic hackney option rather than the ludicrous one that was tried already. That pilot scheme was a total failure and needs to be totally overhauled. I appeal to the Minister to put his political capacity behind such a proposal to ensure it is implemented before this Government leaves office next year.

Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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Does the Minister agree that, as the Deputy has said, the conditions of the scheme were ludicrous? People in areas such as west Connemara were refused on the basis that there were already taxis in the area. Taxi drivers who lived in rural areas and who went to the towns or cities to provide a service were considered to be providing a local service. As the Deputy has said, many areas have been left totally without hackney services as a result. The idea was that the hackney that got the licence would be tied to the area and would provide a service in that area. That is not true of a normal taxi licence. People with such a licence can provide a service anywhere they want to.

Eamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
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I absolutely commit to Deputy Smith to making all political efforts to improve rural taxi, hackney and, indeed, BusConnects services. This includes looking at the digital online app as part of Connecting Ireland. That will bring about improvements. It also includes working very closely with the likes of Local Link, which also provides a very significant local drop-off service. There is a whole variety of different services.

Deputy Ó Cuív is correct. The pilot scheme is only starting but, in reviewing it, we can see that it was too restrictive as regards the places in which it could be applied. That was done for a good reason in terms of not wanting to undermine existing services. As we come back for a second iteration, we might look towards a much more open scheme. As the Deputy has said, there were other conditions to the scheme to prevent competition with long-distance taxi services. That is an issue we should look at. We need to be much more open as regards the areas it may apply to.

Aengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
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Táim chun dul siar. De ghnáth, ní bhíonn cead agam é sin a dhéanamh. I am going backwards because the Deputies who submitted Questions Nos. 10 and 11 were, in fact, in the Chamber as I called on Deputy Smith.

Richard Bruton (Dublin Bay North, Fine Gael)
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The Cathaoirleach Gníomhach was moving too quickly for me. I was just coming in the door.