Stephen Donnelly (Wicklow, Fianna Fail)
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I move: "That the Bill be now read a Second Time".

I am delighted to introduce the Public Health (Tobacco) (Amendment) Bill, or the smoking 21 Bill as it has been referred to. This is a short Bill with a single substantive measure. It will save thousands of lives in the coming years. We have a long and proud tradition, across all parties, of introducing strong tobacco control measures. We started this with our now globally-renowned workplace smoking ban introduced by the Tánaiste, Deputy Micheál Martin, when he was the Minister for Health in 2004. In 2007, we prohibited the sale of cigarette packets containing fewer than 20 cigarettes and we did this to ensure they would not be available, particularly to our children, at lower prices. In 2009, we banned the display and advertising of cigarettes at the point of sale in our retail outlets. In 2011, we introduced graphic health warnings on tobacco packaging. In 2016, we banned smoking in cars where children are present. In 2017, we introduced plain packaging to make packs look less attractive, to make the health warnings more prominent and to prevent packaging from misleading consumers about the harmful effects of tobacco. Last year, we introduced the Public Health (Tobacco Products and Nicotine Inhaling Products) Act, or the vaping Act. That Act regulated vaping products, which is where most of the attention was focused. As colleagues in the House will know, however, the legislation also contained tobacco control measures as well. It introduces an annual licence requirement per outlet for the retail sale of tobacco products; prohibits temporary or pop-up shops from applying for a licence; ends the sale of tobacco products by self-service such as through vending machines; and prohibits the sale of tobacco products at events for children.

These measures were necessary and they have worked. In 2002, our adult smoking rate was 27% and today it is 18%. Smoking prevalence in children was a frightening 19% in 2002 and today it is 5%. This is very good progress but our latest figures show that these measures, although necessary, are not sufficient. According to last year's Healthy Ireland survey, smoking prevalence for those aged 15 and over is 18%. The prevalence was 17% pre-Covid in 2019. There is no survey data for 2020 but the rate had increased to 18% by 2021 and it has stayed there. In addition, although children’s smoking prevalence is reducing generally, the results from the 2019 European Schools Project on Alcohol and Other Drugs survey showed smoking prevalence among young people aged 15 and 16 at over 14%. Worryingly, this was an increase on the rate of 13% in 2015.

On other issues, we might decide that we have done all that we can do and that sufficient progress has been made over the past 20 years. We cannot and will not do this when it comes to tobacco. Tobacco smoking is addictive and lethal, and, according to international analysis, it remains the biggest single risk factor driving disability and death combined in our country. The life expectancy of a smoker is on average ten years shorter than that of a person who has never smoked. Two out of three smokers will die as a result of their smoking. In addition to the death toll, smoking and exposure to secondhand smoke cause an enormous range of preventable illnesses and disabilities. These include: at least 16 types of cancers and 13% of all cancers here; respiratory diseases such as asthma and chronic obstructive pulmonary disease, COPD; cardiovascular diseases including aneurysms, stroke, coronary heart disease and peripheral arterial disease; eye diseases such as macular degeneration, cataracts and diabetic retinopathy, which can eventually lead to blindness; reproductive effects including an increased risk of ectopic pregnancy, premature delivery, low birth weight and perinatal mortality; diabetes; rheumatoid arthritis; and dementia. In the shorter term, smoking during childhood and adolescence causes both reduced lung function and impaired lung growth. In the longer term, there is evidence that smoking during adolescence increases the risk of developing psychiatric disorders and cognitive impairment in later life. In addition, adolescent smokers suffer from attention deficits, which can become worse with the years of smoking. In our hospitals, smoking and exposure to secondhand smoke account for one day case admission in every 50, one in 20 of all inpatient admissions and nearly one in ten of all bed days.

I am proposing to increase the minimum legal age for the sale of tobacco products to 21. That is what this legislation does: it moves the age from 18 to 21. The purpose of this measure is not to further regulate tobacco products but to begin to eliminate them from our lives and the lives of our children. It is, to use the public health term, an "endgame measure", signalling the beginning of the end of tobacco in our country. We know it will work because we have evidence from other countries and modelling evidence as well. In 2020, a study of US state-level laws showed that raising the age of sale to 21 had strong evidence associated with a reduction of nearly 4 percentage points in smoking for those aged 18, 19 and 20 and a reduction of nearly 3 percentage points in smoking among those aged 16 and 17. Analysis from the context of our own 2007 increase in the legal age of sale from 16 to 18 found reduced smoking prevalence and a reduction among those aged 14 to 15 in the likelihood of ever having tried a cigarette. In 2015, the US Institute of Medicine modelled the implications of raising the national minimum age for the sale of tobacco products to 21. It concluded that the largest proportionate reduction in tobacco initiation will likely occur among adolescents aged 15, 16 and 17. This will be due to this age group being unlikely or less likely to have members of their peer network over the minimum legal age who would be a source of cigarettes. The modelling also found that the expected reduction in the initiation of smoking will, over several years, lead to a 12% absolute reduction in smoking prevalence. Similarly, modelling carried out at University College London, and updated just last year, estimated that increasing the UK legal age for the sale of cigarettes from 18 to 21 would reduce smoking prevalence among the population of 18- to 20-year-olds to just 2% by 2035. Without the age increase, the modelling suggests the rate would be more than 12.4%.

If we raise our age of sale to 21, it will directly impact those who may have tried smoking at a younger age but do not become regular smokers until age 18 or above. This is a large proportion of smokers. Data from the EU and the UK show that nearly 40% of smokers become regular smokers between the ages of 18 and 25, while US data shows that more than 11% become daily smokers between the ages of 18 and 20. The measure will also impact those under the age of 18. They will be less likely to be in social groups with people who can legally purchase cigarettes so their social sources will become more limited. The increase is also likely to make youth smoking even less acceptable and therefore discourage adults from making proxy purchases on behalf of children. This legislation will make it more difficult for younger teenagers to appear to be aged 21 than to appear to be aged 18.

Essentially, we are targeting two groups of people with this legislation. The first consists of those people who are covered or explicitly targeted by the legislation. These are people aged 18,19 and 20. We have real-life evidence and modelling from several reputable sources internationally to show that by moving the age from 18 to 21, as we would expect, that group aged between 18 and 20 will see an important reduction in the smoking rates over many years.

The second group is arguably more important in terms of public health impact. That is those aged between 14 and 17. They are not explicitly targeted by this Bill, because the legal age of sale is already 18. However, the public health view, the evidence from around the world and the modelling all combine to say that when we move the legal age from 18 to 21, those aged between 14 and 17 find it significantly harder to access cigarettes. Maybe a 16-year-old or 17-year-old can pass themselves off as 18. Maybe they have a friend or sibling when they are 15 or 16, who is 18 and will buy cigarettes on their behalf. It is simply harder. It is obviously not impossible. It is not a foolproof measure, but it is much harder for the 14-year-old, 15-year-old or 16-year-old to get cigarettes in the first place when we move the age to 21. The potential impact on those younger people could be very significant too.

I will take colleagues through the details of the Bill. Section 1 provides for definitions of the two Acts referred to in the Bill.

Section 2 provides that the National Environmental Health Service - the enforcement authority - can use compliance notices to enforce the new age limit.

Section 3 provides that the National Environmental Health Service can use prohibition notices to enforce the new age limit.

Section 4 amends the Public Health (Tobacco Products and Nicotine Inhaling Products) Act 2023 to reposition the definition of "age card". This is necessary as the definition now applies to sections 28 and 28A.

Section 5 amends section 28 of the tobacco products and nicotine inhaling products Act by removing the reference to tobacco products. This leaves that section as a prohibition on the retail sale of nicotine-inhaling products to persons under 18.

Section 6 introduces the new section 28A into the tobacco products and nicotine inhaling Products Act to prohibit the retail sale of tobacco products to persons under 21. That is the core section in this Bill. It contains the same defences as those available for retail sale to a person under 18, which are that the customer produces one of the specified forms of identification to show they are aged 21 or older.

Section 7 ensures that the National Environmental Health Service can do test purchases to check compliance with the new age limit. This section re-enacts the provision in the 2023 Act with the relevant age now increased to 21 for tobacco products. It retains the need for consent of a parent or guardian for test purchase under the age of 18.

Section 8 provides the penalties that apply on conviction for sale of tobacco products to persons under 18 now apply to the sale to a person under 21. The penalties are: on summary conviction for a first offence, a class B fine, which is to a maximum of €4000 or a term of imprisonment not exceeding six months, or both; on summary conviction for any subsequent offence, a class A fine, which is to a maximum of €5000, or a term of imprisonment not exceeding 12 months, or both; and on conviction on indictment, a fine not exceeding €500,000, or a term of imprisonment not exceeding three years, or both.

Section 9 provides that the power of the court to suspend a licence on conviction for the sale of tobacco products to a person under 18, will now apply to the sale to a person under the age of 21. The court can suspend a licence on summary conviction of a first offence for not less than seven days and not more than 30 days; on summary conviction for a second or subsequent offence for not less than 30 days and not more than three months; on conviction on indictment for not less than 30 days and not more than 12 months.

Section 10 amends section 45 of the Public Health (Tobacco Products and Nicotine Inhaling Products) Act to ensure the sign that retailers may display, stating that tobacco products are on sale, will refer to age 21 rather than age 18 when the age limit changes.

Section 11 provides for the Short Title of Act and for the date of coming into operation of its provisions. Under section 11(3), the Act will come into operation on 1 February 2028 with the exception of section 10. This date is to allow for a passing through of all persons who may be at least 18 when the Bill is enacted but before it comes into operation. It also provides for an additional six months to account for any standstill period that might be required due to the notification of the Bill at EU level. I have taken the advice of the Attorney General on the best way to deal with the age increase. It is important that no young person who has become addicted to smoking might, without warning, find that they suddenly cannot be sold cigarettes. We will avoid this with the longer lead-in time and significant messaging as the deadline draws nearer. Section 10 is separated out as it amends section 45 of the Tobacco Products and Nicotine Inhaling Products Act, which is not yet commenced. Section 45, in turn, amends section 43 of the Public Health (Tobacco) Act 2002. To ensure these sections are commenced in the right order, section 10 has been excluded from the 1 February 2028 date and can be commenced by order. According to the evidence, one in three young people develops a compulsion to smoke after only three or four cigarettes, and one in two develops it after between ten and 20 cigarettes.

The Bill has a single purpose. It is to spare young people a lifetime of addiction and potential illness that comes through smoking cigarettes. It has been said that addiction to tobacco smoking is as powerful as addiction to hard drugs such as heroin. I worked with people who are in residential addiction and have been addicted to many different class A drugs. Many of them have said to me that the most difficult thing was to sustainably stop smoking, which they found even harder than detoxing and getting clean from a class A drug. It is hugely addictive. My goal with this Bill is to ensure we help young people avoid that burden, future illness and the suffering. I look forward to colleagues' contributions. This is an important step in the right direction.

As I said at the start, this is more than just taking another step to try to marginally reduce the level of smoking. The Bill and policy measure are aimed at fundamentally upping the game and moving into the endgame of tobacco smoking in the country. It has the potential to save many lives in years to come. It might be something a future government reviews and decides it wants to increase the age further. I imagine that is something a future health Minister might want to keep under consideration. This marks a significant addition to our public health arsenal against smoking and an important change in saying this is something we want to phase out completely in our country. I look forward to the debate.

David Cullinane (Waterford, Sinn Fein)
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I welcome the opportunity to debate this Bill. Its primary purpose is to raise the age of prohibition on the sale of tobacco products to 21 from 1 February 2028. Sections 2, 3 and 7 provide for enforcement measures for the responsible authority, the National Environmental Health Service, to enforce the new age limit. Section 4 amends the placement of the definition of age card. Section 5 retains the prohibition age for vaping products at 18 years of age. Section 6 raises the prohibition age for tobacco products to 21. Sections 8 and 9 set out penalties and consequences for breaches of the Act and the core powers outlined by the Minister in his contribution. Section 10 requires retailers to supply signage referring to the new prohibition Act from the relevant date in 2028.

My party and I will oppose the Bill because we believe this proposal to ban the sale of cigarettes to people under the age of 21 is on the one hand superficial and, on the other, impractical as an approach. We are opposed to section 6 of the Bill, which raises the age of tobacco prohibition to 21 from the existing 18. The idea that an 18-year-old can join the Defence Forces, buy a vape or buy alcohol, but cannot buy a cigarette is unreasonable, and probably more importantly unenforceable. The age of adulthood is 18 and there is no age-specific medical rationale I have heard to remove the ability of 18-year-olds to buy cigarettes.

One could reasonably argue that there is a medical rationale for banning cigarettes in their entirety, but that is not what the Minister is proposing and is certainly not what I would propose. There is no rationale for increasing the prohibition to 21 years of age.

Vapes and alcohol will continue to be available to 18-year-olds. If the Government wants to ban smoking, then it should come out and say so and we can debate the issue. I am someone who has never smoked or taken drugs. There are many discussions in the House and people are occasionally asked whether they have taken drugs. I am one of the fortunate people who can say, hand on heart, that I have not. I have always had what I would consider to be a good company of friends who have never smoked and who do not take drugs, which is of benefit to me. I am not a fan of smoking, but people do smoke. When a person reaches 18 years of age, he or she is an adult and makes his or her own decisions, and that is what should happen in this case.

The Government claims it is necessary to stop 18-to-21-year-olds from buying cigarettes in order to reduce access to cigarettes for under-18s. I do not buy this rationale. It is a nonsense and cigarettes will continue to be available, but it will push more trade into the tobacco black market. Unfortunately, we have a Border on this island, so there will be different rules obtaining North and South. An issue like this will have implications for cross-Border trade.

For all of these practical reasons, I will not support the Bill. Cigarettes will continue to be available to over-20s and people at or over 18 years of age will of course know 21-year-olds. There could be 20-year-olds in relationships with people who are 21 or 22 years of age, so their partners will be able to buy cigarettes for them. There is no prohibition on smoking, so a 20-year-old will still legally be able to smoke. That person will just not be able to buy the cigarettes personally. That people will be able to get others to buy cigarettes for them is the reason this Bill is not the one we should be debating today. There is much more the House should be debating as we reach the twilight of the Government’s time in office.

This prohibition will not prevent under-21s from using nicotine. The proposal does not affect vaping, meaning it does not affect access to nicotine. Many young people have been exposed to vaping because it was legal for several years to sell vapes to children. The Government has not regulated advertising, packaging or flavouring that is designed to target children. The Oireachtas health committee discussed this matter recently when we were asked to waive pre-legislative scrutiny of the Bill. Waiving it was the right thing to do, given that we can debate the issues on Second and Committee Stages. I am sure the Minister will be looking to get this Bill passed for reasons of his own that he can explain, but he promised a parallel Bill to the existing vaping Bill. I supported the vaping Bill and will support the parallel Bill. It is somewhere out there, but we have not seen it yet. It will deal with issues like flavouring. Practical measures like that have more benefit, yet that Bill seems to have been put to one side with this Bill taking priority. I do not accept that or see the rationale for it. I would have preferred it had the Minister tabled his parallel Bill on vaping to address all of the issues we did not deal with in the first Bill, which I supported and will continue to support.

The Minister for Health’s time, the time of legislation and policy drafters in the Department and the Dáil’s time would be better spent on the real and serious challenges in the health service. I am not saying that smoking is not a real and serious challenge. Of course it is, but this Bill will not do anything substantial to deal with it. A great deal more can and should be done to deal with and invest in preventative healthcare and make a tangible difference. We have long waiting lists, as the Minister knows, and a recruitment embargo in the health service. The Minister has still not published his pay and numbers strategy. There are challenges in children’s healthcare. The date for the children’s hospital keeps getting pushed out. There are many other issues in the health services where our time would be bettered used trying to address them. There is legislation on, for example, adult safeguarding, mental health reforms and many other matters the Minister has not progressed. It would have been far more beneficial to citizens had those Bills been progressed. Much more can also be done as regards prevention.

The National Ambulance Service is not fit for purpose and more patients are dying waiting for an ambulance to reach them than ever before. The number increased by more than 70% in eight years to reach 1,100 last year. The Government could take further meaningful public health measures to improve children and young people's lives. I hope that there will be a change in government and the next Government will be led by Sinn Féin. We would focus on poverty alleviation and inequality, including access to sport, healthy foods, healthy homes and the impacts of the cost-of-living and housing crises on people’s health. These would be tangible measures that would make a difference to the lives, health and well-being of children.

Legislation, by its nature, is slow and capacity is limited. We know this as members of Oireachtas committees. We know it from constantly seeking updates on when legislation will be before the Dáil. Obviously, there is a great deal of competition in terms of finding what is precious time to move Bills. That is why I believe there was a range of other Bills that the Minister could have prioritised, but he prioritised this one for whatever reason. Maybe he views it as his legacy – I do not know, and that is not how it will work out – but there are more important issues that he should be considering.

The Government has been dragging its heels on far more important legislation. I cited the examples of adult safeguarding laws and mental health reforms. There is also the question of rights-based access to care. Following the most recent referendum on carers and people with disabilities, the House debated the need to change legislation to ensure more rights-based access to care for people with disabilities. The list of legislation is long. I could go on about the Bills we could and should be debating today.

I am not just speaking from a libertarian point of view. I am not someone who is in favour of people smoking and I want to see fewer people doing it, but it is a fact that, while under-21s can join the military, vote, drink alcohol and vape, the Government is saying that they will not be able to buy cigarettes. I do not see the benefit in that. I do not see how it is practical. I do not see how this is the best time for us to be debating the issue.

I have made my points. For all of these reasons, my party will oppose the Bill.

Thomas Gould (Cork North Central, Sinn Fein)
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We will not support the Bill because it is not the step forward in tackling smoking the State needs. Under-18s smoke and have access to cigarettes. If we are concerned with enforcement, maybe that is where we should be concentrating instead creating a new law that will not be enforceable and will be flouted.

With this Bill, we are creating a situation where 18-year-olds can go into a premises if they want and buy alcohol - not just beer or wine, but hard spirits like whiskey and vodka, which are damaging alcohols. People can gamble every penny they have the minute they turn 18 years of age, if that is what they choose. The reason is that 18 years of age is the age of adulthood. We just had elections. People can vote at 18 years of age. They can also get married at 18, but they will not be able to buy cigarettes. Are we creating a two-tier system?

The Minister outlined the public health issues related to smoking. If he is that concerned and serious, why not ban smoking? If he goes down this road, will he do the same in respect of alcohol? Some people say that alcohol does more damage to the public health of the country than smoking, yet the Minister never touched on those figures.

I smoked most of my life. It is a horrible thing to do. My wife always hated it. I have lost family members to lung cancer. I would love it if no one smoked, but people choose to smoke. What the Minister is seeking to do is change the permissible age, but that is wrong.

The Minister cited some statistics and I will do so as well. In the 1990s, three areas of Massachusetts implemented a vigorous enforcement campaign against under-age tobacco sales. They outlined a promise like the one the Minister has outlined today.

The results showed that smoking rates among teens increased and teenagers did not find it any more difficult to access tobacco.

With regard to the lead-in time, are people going to go to bed on 31 January 2028 and wake up the following day not being able to purchase tobacco? Will it be phased in? Will there be a cut-off?

To go back to the point my colleague Deputy Cullinane made on vaping, this is the real issue that should have been tackled. If the Minister wanted to tackle something, the number of young people vaping has spiralled. Last year, the Minister announced he was exploring banning certain flavours, particularly those targeted at young people. There is a big public health issue with vaping. The 2019 ESPAD survey highlighted a worrying increase in vaping among teenagers and an increased likelihood that teenagers who vape will also smoke cigarettes. Studies in Britain have found increases in vaping among young people and this is leading to smoking and wider health inequalities. Other findings are that vaping leads to delinquency and people using alcohol more. Alongside these are studies that show specific damage is done by tobacco and nicotine to the brains of young people. However, young people will still be able to buy vapes with nicotine. Is this right? People aged 18 will not be able to buy a cigarette but they will be able to buy nicotine and put it into their vapes.

People can walk outside of Leinster House today and go into a shop and buy candy floss, Red Bull and pink lemonade vapes with beautiful pink and yellow colours specifically targeted at younger people. The Minister has done nothing to ban these. I was in a shop the other day. We have banned the advertising of cigarettes but does the Minister know what is on the cigarette machines now? It is vaping products. The Minister has done nothing to ban their advertisement, especially those targeted at young people. The Bill is being rushed through. So much more could have been done.

There are big problems in the health service. We have a trolley crisis and a waiting list crisis. We also have big issues with access to mental health services and addiction services. We cannot get beds or get people into treatment. We are worried about young people. These are young people who are vulnerable and need support. Where is the Bill for them? The sentiment of the Bill might be right but there are big issues in public health that should have been tackled.

Paul Donnelly (Dublin West, Sinn Fein)
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Sinn Féin opposes the Bill, as my colleagues have said. I absolutely despise tobacco and vaping products. I have seen too many people die horrible deaths due to cancer and particularly due to tobacco-related illnesses. I wish we could shut down every one of those tobacco companies. I wish that were something we could do. Just like with illegal drugs it would drive it underground and into the hands of illegal gangs and create more pain and violence on our streets. It would be just as futile.

The primary purpose of the Bill is to raise the age of prohibition on the sale of tobacco to 21 years. The Bill also makes slight modifications to the public health Act to separate the sale of nicotine inhaling products, or vapes, from the sale of tobacco products. This means it will remain legal to sell all forms of vapes to 18-year-olds. I will come back to discuss vapes later.

There are many meaningful and far more important public health measures the Government could take to improve the health of children, young people and older people. I have mentioned previously in the Dáil that in 2014 the Irish Cancer Society produce a report on Dublin 15 in which it stated that on one side of Ongar Road and Snugborough Road people were two times more likely to die of cancer and three times more likely to die of any other illness. The reasons are poverty and disadvantage, which kill more people than all these products put together. This finding is from the Irish Cancer Society.

There were 29 convictions for selling tobacco products to people aged under 18 in the entire State. The targets set by the HSE for inspections was a mere 384 throughout the tens of thousands of outlets in the State selling tobacco products. I noticed there was not a single conviction in Dublin West, which has a population of more than 130,000 people with hundreds of outlets. I wonder whether they are all very law abiding or if there are no inspections in Dublin 15. I find that quite incredible to believe not a single person was convicted.

I looked at what happens if someone is convicted of selling illegal tobacco products. The Minister spoke about enforcement. There is a €500 fine and €600 in costs. Penalties also include being removed from the register for one day, four week or six hours, which is strange.

Stephen Donnelly (Wicklow, Fianna Fail)
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That is not in the Bill.

Paul Donnelly (Dublin West, Sinn Fein)
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The Minister spoke about enforcement and these are the penalties. This is with regard to people convicted of selling products to those aged under 18. The Minister has spoken about enforcement and increasing the age to 21. Something on which we should really focus is what we do to those selling the products to children and not to adults. It is merely window dressing and being seen to do something. It is just not good enough. I read the Bill digest from the Oireachtas Library and Research Service, which was very informative. It is interesting to note that a limited number of countries have bans. One of these is the United States, which has also banned vapes up to the age of 21 and also has an alcohol ban up to the age of 21. Latvia is the only other country I could see that has a ban, which is up to the age of 20. The United States has a very strict ID system and it has technology to deal with the issue of ID.

Most people just do not get this Bill. I have spoken to a number of people about it and they do not really understand it. Many young people believe it is an insult to them. As has been said, they say they can get married, buy alcohol, use a sunbed, which is something that causes a large number of skin cancer cases, vape a virtually unregulated product to their heart's content, join the Defence Forces and vote, and some would say voting for certain parties can be very damaging to your health also. However, the State has picked this one out and said of all the dangerous things available to an 18-year-old, this is the one it makes illegal. It just does not make sense.

I would like to have spoken more about vapes but unfortunately I cannot do so. They have already been spoken about by Deputy Gould. The products that are on sale and the advertising are directly targeted at children. The Minister introduced regulations late last year but he did not then introduce, and still has not introduced, measures on the display of nicotine inhaling products, the appearance of nicotine inhaling products and their packaging, proxy sales of tobacco and nicotine inhaling products, smoking indoors, extending the smoke-free restrictions to vaping, and taxing vaping liquids. So much more could be done on these issues with regard to products being targeted at children and not adults.

Stephen Donnelly (Wicklow, Fianna Fail)
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It is being done.

Paul Donnelly (Dublin West, Sinn Fein)
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We have to differentiate between children and adults.

Cormac Devlin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
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I welcome the opportunity to examine the Public Health (Tobacco) (Amendment) Bill 2024. I thank and acknowledge the work of the Minister and his officials in preparing and pursuing this important legislation, which will increase the legal age for the sale of tobacco products to 21. As we have heard, the objective of the Bill is to protect young people from becoming addicted to tobacco. Smoking remains the single leading cause of preventable ill-health, disability and premature mortality in Ireland. Current estimates are that 4,500 people in Ireland die from tobacco use each year.

It is the cause of 13% of all cancers and an enormous range of other illnesses and conditions. Tobacco products are linked to at least 16 types of cancer; multiple respiratory diseases, including chronic obstructive pulmonary disease, COPD; cardiovascular disease; and peripheral artery disease, which can lead to gangrene, stroke, diabetes and dementia.

This measure is being introduced to accelerate the decline in adult smoking prevalence, which has plateaued at 18% for several years. It is also among a series of other measures designed to reduce smoking prevalence among children to zero. I welcome the Minister's stated objective, to assist young people to avoid a lifetime of addiction and illness from tobacco smoking. The modelling shows, and it is clear, that this measure will not only protect the targeted age group as outlined but will also protect those under 18 as they are less likely to be in a social group with 21-year-olds who can legally purchase cigarettes.

As with the smoking in the workplace ban introduced by the then Minister for Health, Deputy Micheál Martin, in 2004, in which Ireland was a world leader, Ireland will also be the first EU country to introduce this measure. I welcome the practical elements of the Bill, including the phased implementation for those who are already entitled to be sold tobacco products. Persons who are over 18 but under 21 will not be affected. However, I would welcome more funding for public health initiatives to help these people to quit smoking. There has been a noticeable increasing in quit-smoking campaigns online and through other advertising, which is welcome.

I notice the comments from the Opposition about the Bill and the questioning about vapes. Let us not forget the legislation on e-cigarettes that was passed in this House in December last year. Yes, there is more to do, as the Minister has stated previously in this Chamber and at committee meetings, but there is legislation which the Opposition has acknowledged. Speaking of the 2004 smoking ban, let us put into context what was said by the Opposition today. There was talk about outright bans for cigarettes and having a debate on but not supporting such legislation. Back in 2004, would the then Opposition say now that they do not support the smoking ban?

David Cullinane (Waterford, Sinn Fein)
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We supported that Bill

Cormac Devlin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
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Given the comments about this Bill today, it is important to put into context what is being done here. It is to try to decouple the enticement of tobacco and its addictive nature for a cohort. It is based on data and studies. The Minister has outlined it clearly, not only in this House, but also at committee meetings. Equally, on the vapes there are challenges. We all acknowledge that and the Minister will be aware of my comments around that and children, but legislation is pending for that, which I welcome.

I thank the Minister and his officials for preparing this legislation, which will protect young people and help them to avoid becoming addicted to tobacco products in the future. I ask other parties and non-aligned Members of the House to support this important legislation.

Róisín Shortall (Dublin North West, Social Democrats)
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Notwithstanding the limited nature of this legislation, I welcome the Bill to prohibit the sale of tobacco to people under the age of 21 years. The passing of this legislation would make Ireland the first country in the EU to implement a Tobacco 21 policy. There is potential for Ireland to be a leader in this area, but unfortunately the Bill falls short of what is required to effectively tackle smoking. Waiting for Europe to act, as is too often the inclination of this Government, would be the wrong approach, especially given the strength of the lobbying and influence of big tobacco at European level. However, I remain of the view, that not only the same urgency, but far great urgency, should be applied to passing stricter vaping laws. I will return to that subject in a few moments.

A Tobacco 21 policy was first mooted by the Institute of Public Health during pre-legislative scrutiny of the Public Health (Tobacco and Nicotine Inhaling Products) Act 2023. In both its written submission and opening statement to the Joint Committee on Health, the institute cited convincing evidence that this measure would reduce the number of children and young people experimenting with tobacco. In September 2022, the Royal College of Physicians of Ireland published a comprehensive position paper entitled Tobacco Free Ireland: Time for Tobacco 21. According to that paper, international modelling suggests that Tobacco 21 policies have the potential to reduce smoking rates by 25% among 15 to 17-year-olds and in the 18 to 20 age cohort, smoking rates have been shown to drop by 15%.

However, it should be noted that much of the international evidence comes from the US as so few jurisdictions have adopted a Tobacco 21 policy. While US studies provide an interesting insight, it is difficult to draw direct comparisons with such a vast jurisdiction and especially one that has a legal drinking age of 21. The strong association between alcohol and tobacco experimentation among adolescents is a particularly important factor. With these caveats in mind, localised and state-wide findings from the US are still worth noting. For example, in Needham, Massachusetts, the first town in the US to adopt a Tobacco 21 law in 2005, smoking rates have halved among 15 to 18-year-olds, while in California, which introduced a Tobacco 21 law in 2015, the smoking rate among 15 to 18-year-olds has fallen from 10% to 2%. In December 2019, a federal law was introduced to raise the legal age limit to 21 across all states. The most notable feature of that law, distinct from the Government's proposal, is that it includes vapes. It is a very different proposition.

We have known for decades that adult smoking patterns are generally established in adolescence and, as with any addictive substance, the earlier people start to use it, the more likely they are to develop an addiction. The most convincing argument I have heard for a Tobacco 21 policy is the reduced accessibility of tobacco products to young people, especially those under 18. The benefit of this is twofold. First, as others have said, minors are unlikely to be in social groups with people over 21 who could purchase tobacco for them. Second, minors are less likely to attempt to purchase tobacco if they need to pass for a 21-year-old.

Current smoking trends also suggest that this measure is justified. Tobacco Free Ireland was launched in October 2013. It included a commitment to an effectively tobacco-free society, by reducing the national smoking rate to 5% by 2025. Unfortunately, there is no way that target will be met. While the rate of smoking in Ireland decreased from 23% in 2015 to 18% in 2021, it has stood still for a number of years. This plateau is quite disappointing and points to the need for more ambitious tobacco-control measures. One of the positive aspects of this proposal is the element of sending a message about the dangers of smoking, particularly for young people. I hope those messages will be picked up by parents who sometimes turn a blind eye to their teenagers smoking.

The Minister has spoken very little about how this will operate and especially about enforcement. For many years, where we have an over-18 law such as for the purchase of alcohol, we know it has been flouted more often than it has been enforced.

There has been great difficulty - we are all aware of this as public representatives - in local communities that are particularly blighted by alcohol abuse and use among young people. It is very hard to get any kind of enforcement in this area. When attention is drawn to it, it gets some activity but it falls away very quickly. We are great in this country for introducing laws but we are not anything like as good at ensuring their enforcement. Enforcement takes resources and the Minister has made no reference to that at all.

It is my view, however, it is the prevalence of teen vaping which should be of most concern and the Minister should be attaching the most urgency to it. Last month the Growing Up in Ireland 2023 survey was published and found that 9% of 13-year-olds had tried vaping but just 3% had actually smoked a cigarette. It is quite clear what the main problem with regard to smoking is here. According to a 2023 study commissioned by Foróige, 36% of 13 to 16-year-olds said that they had vaped. That is a huge number and is more than one third. There is a real urgency about that and I do not think it is getting the attention it needs.

One has to ask is it any wonder that such high numbers of young people are vaping. It has only been seven months since the sale of vapes to under-18s was banned. That is the absolute bare minimum that one would expect. In fact, most people assumed that it was already the law.

This Government needs to get ahead of this surge in teen vaping before it gets completely out of hand and we are getting very close to that point now. Unfortunately, I see no sign of urgency on the part of the Minister or the Government. There was a flurry of activity around this about six months ago and we had the Tánaiste coming out and talking about the problem but it is only talk. I want to remind the Minister that the report of the health committee on the pre-legislative scrutiny on smoking cessation and vaping was provided to the Minister in July 2022. It is exactly two years since the Minister received the report of the health committee. In that committee report, it was the unanimous recommendation to call for the banning of flavoured vapes and the banning of disposable vapes. Unfortunately, the Minister took a minimalist approach to the legislation even though the Minister had the full backing of the committee to go much further.

I appreciate that there is an EU notification process but why was that not started immediately after the first public consultation? That public consultation ended almost a year ago. The EU only needs six months' notice. My understanding is that the Minister intends to notify the EU this summer but that means that it will be at least the end of the year, if not early next year, before the legislation proceeds. It is highly likely, in my view, that we will have an election before that process is completed and one has to wonder if that promised legislation will ever see the light of day. Simply talking about acting is not enough. We need this legislation passed urgently.

I would also argue that there is absolutely no justification for the range of flavours available, which are clearly designed to appeal to children and young people. The current situation is really ludicrous where these highly addictive products are being displayed like sweets in every shop.

I am also deeply concerned about the continued influence of commercial actors in shaping health policy. The vape lobby is a prime example of this. In plain sight, it is aggressively attempting to shape our understanding of health and addiction. We should not forget that this is a sector with very deep pockets. The vape market in Ireland is currently valued at approximately €116 million annually. The narrative they are pushing, that these products are nothing more than an effective smoking cessation tool, must be challenged head-on.

Not only are vapes highly addictive but they are also very hazardous. In May, the RCSI published its research into the effect of heating the chemicals which are found in vapes. Their study uncovered the formation of new chemical compounds when heated, including 127 classified as "acute toxic". Some 153 others were classified as health hazards and 225 classified as irritants. Most notably, this included a group of chemicals called volatile carbonyls which are known to pose serious health risks. Food, candy and dessert-flavoured vaping products were found to be the sources of this chemical group. These are the very vapes that typically appeal to children and young teenagers. Understandably, young people are not thinking about the long-term health impacts of these products when they buy them but the State should be. Moreover, the State should be acting and should have acted long ago on these. That is why robust legislation that not only bans single-use vapes, but also limits flavours, it is so urgently required and we need to see that as soon as possible. If the Minister had listened to the health committee, we could have seen that legislation already in place and taking effect.

Finally, the Social Democrats will be supporting the Public Health (Tobacco) (Amendment) Bill 2024 but we are calling on the Minister to show the same if not far greater urgency in tackling youth vaping. Simply describing the problem, as the Minister and the Tánaiste have done, will not cut it any longer. The biggest threat to smoking-related health harms and the promotion of that comes directly now from vaping, the widespread availability of vaping and the use of vapes by young people. I think the Minister has his eyes closed on this and I do not think he realises the extent to which vaping has taken a grip on young people's lives. It is very regrettable that we are chasing now after a trend that has very much taken a grip in this country.

Peter Fitzpatrick (Louth, Independent)
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I welcome the Government's approval of raising the legal age for tobacco product sales to 21, with the passing of this Bill. This landmark decision marks a pivotal moment in our ongoing efforts to safeguard public health and secure a healthier future for our youth.

First, let us acknowledge the significance of this legislation. By raising the minimum age for purchasing tobacco products from 18 to 21, we are taking a proactive step towards reducing tobacco use among young adults. The measure is being introduced to accelerate the decline in adult smoking prevalence, which has plateaued at 18% for several years. It is also among a series of measures designed to reduce the smoking prevalence among children to zero. To maintain smoking rates at their current level, the tobacco industry needs to recruit 50 new smokers every day. It is targeting our young children to achieve that. Irish smokers start smoking at the youngest age in Europe at just 16 years of age. Ireland will be the first EU country to introduce this measure which will assist our young people to avoid a lifetime of addiction and illness from tobacco smoking.

This move aligns us with growing scientific evidence that shows the developing brain is particularly vulnerable to nicotine addiction and delaying access to tobacco can significantly lower the likelihood of lifelong addiction. The damage caused by tobacco smoking is catastrophic, causing many illnesses and leading to shorter life expectancy. Statistics show that 17.4% of the general population in Ireland aged 15 years and older smoke tobacco, corresponding to 680,000 people. Some 5,200 Irish people die every year from smoking-related diseases. That is mums and dads and grannies and grandads, it is unreal. Smoking is responsible for almost one in five of all deaths. We must take decisive action to ensure that we can protect our young people.

The statistics are compelling. The vast majority of adult smokers began their habit during adolescence. By limiting access to tobacco until the age of 21, we can aim to disrupt this cycle, offering young people more time to mature and make informed decisions about their health.

Research from the Institute of Medicine in the United States indicates that raising the tobacco sales age to 21 can significantly reduce smoking rates among adolescents and young adults. The evidence suggests that this policy can lead to a 12% reduction in smoking prevalence among adults, translating into millions of lives saved and substantial reductions in healthcare costs. This is not just about policy; it is about protecting future generations from the devastating health consequences associated with tobacco use. Furthermore, this legislation is a responsible measure that balances individual rights with collective responsibility for public health. As a society, we have a duty to create an environment that promotes well-being and enables our young people to thrive, free from the grasp of addiction. Critics may argue that such measures infringe upon personal liberties but we must consider the broader implications. The cost of tobacco-related illnesses, both in terms of healthcare expenditure and human suffering, far outweighs any perceived inconvenience. By preventing initiation into tobacco use among adolescents, we are not only saving lives but also reducing the economic burden on our healthcare system and society overall.

This legislation underscores our commitment to evidence-based policy making. It reflects a growing consensus among healthcare professionals, researchers and public health advocates that raising the legal age for tobacco sales is an effective strategy in reducing smoking rates and improving population health outcomes. While this is a step in the right direction, it must be acknowledged that the proposed legislation will not impact the minimum legal age of sale of nicotine-inhaling products or vapes. These products are constantly evolving and their marketing is opening them up to ever-increasing audiences with a range of flavours and colourful packaging. Flavours are a very significant driver for young people's attraction to vaping and those who are trying to quit smoking, resulting in a vaping epidemic. One only has to walk down the street to see teenagers in school uniform inhaling from vapes. I will acknowledge that since December the sale of vapes to under 18s has been banned. However, as soon as the Government regulated vaping, young people either went underground or found a new fix in the form of nicotine pouches. These pouches, which are hard to spot, have become popular among teenagers, risking a move on from the current vaping epidemic. The small pouches are placed inside the mouth between the lips and gums, allowing nicotine to enter the bloodstream via the gums. They are similar to vapes in that they are marketed to the younger population. The lack of regulation is a real concern because an increasing number of students are unable to get through the school day without vaping.

While there is a wide range of legislative measures in place in Ireland intended to reduce tobacco smoking, e-cigarettes face fewer restrictions as they are considered to be consumer products. Importantly, this legislation today is just one part of a comprehensive approach to tobacco control. In 2013, the tobacco policy review group published Tobacco Free Ireland, a report which set a target for Ireland to reduce smoking prevalence to less than 5% by 2025. The report identified tobacco-related harm reduction as a key issue for consideration. According to a peer-reviewed research paper entitled Friends and family Matter Most: a trend analysis of increasing e-cigarette use among Irish teenagers and sociodemographic, personal, peer and familial associations, there are worrying changes in adolescent e-cigarette use since 2014. For example, two-thirds of adolescents had never smoked cigarettes at first e-cigarette use. This means that two-thirds used e-cigarettes out of curiosity but fewer than 3% used them for smoking cessation. The most prominent risk factors for e-cigarette use are peer and parent-related.

At the end of the day, even though it is so common in society, tobacco is a drug. There is tobacco in e-cigarettes, even if they taste like watermelon or passionfruit. Nicotine addiction is a real addiction. The most important thing to do is identify the barriers that stop people from getting the help they need. The objective of the 2019–20 National Drug and Alcohol Survey, NDAS, was to determine the prevalence and patterns of drug use, including alcohol and tobacco use, of a representative sample of the general population aged 15 years and older in Ireland. With these insights, we must continue to invest in public education campaigns, support smoking cessation programmes and address the broader social determinants of health that contribute to tobacco use. We must work with partners to produce information to support discussion with young people on vaping and raise awareness of the risks it poses, given the rise in its popularity. Additionally, interventions that take account of friend and family influences may provide mechanisms for preventing an increasing risk of nicotine addiction. Current tobacco control regulations for young people should be extended to include e-cigarettes.

The passage of the Public Health (Tobacco) (Amendment) Bill 2024 represents a significant milestone in our journey towards a tobacco-free future. The impact of this legislation extends beyond the immediate benefits to individuals. It is a critical component of our broader public health strategy aimed at reducing the burden of chronic diseases such as cancer, heart disease and respiratory conditions, all of which are closely linked to tobacco use. By curbing the initiation of smoking among young people we are setting the stage for a healthier population and easing the long-term strain on our healthcare system. It reflects our commitment to prioritising public health and safeguarding the well-being of our youth.

As we move forward, the passage of this Bill is not the end of our efforts but is just the beginning. We must complement this legislative change with robust enforcement mechanisms to ensure compliance and prevent illegal sales. This includes stringent monitoring, increased penalties for violations and comprehensive public education campaigns to raise awareness about the dangers of tobacco use and the new legal age requirements. Let us remain vigilant, continue to build upon our successes and work together to create a healthier, smoke-free environment for all. We must continue to support cessation programmes for those who are already addicted and offer them the resources and assistance they need to quit. This includes expanding access to counselling services, nicotine replacement therapies and other evidence-based interventions. Our goal should be not only to prevent new cases of tobacco addiction but also to help current smokers break free from their dependency. Moreover, we must remain vigilant against the evolving tactics of the tobacco industry. As we tighten regulations on traditional tobacco products, we must also address the rise of new and emerging products such as e-cigarettes and heated tobacco devices. These products are often marketed as safer alternatives but they pose their own set of health risks, particularly to young people. Our regulatory framework must be adaptable and comprehensive, covering all forms of tobacco and nicotine delivery systems.

I have said from day one that smoking can seriously damage one's health. I am very lucky because I never smoked. At the same time, I am kind of unlucky because both of my parents smoked and they are no longer with us today. I have seen first-hand the damage that smoking can do. It is very important that we stop children at a young age from smoking. Ireland's young people are among the youngest in the EU to start smoking, at 16 years of age, which is very alarming. As I said earlier, around 5,200 people are dying each year from smoking. These are mammies, daddies, uncles, aunties, grannies and granddads.

This Bill is a step in the right direction. However, every morning for the last number of months myself and my good wife have been getting up and going for a walk. What do we see along the roads? We see the cartridges of the vapers. I know that the Minister of Health is doing a good job and that he cannot do everything at once but it is not fair that our young population is being targeted. Nicotine is a drug that is addictive. Young people think that they look well and they look cool. If one goes out in the evening, one sees boys and girls who are being put under pressure by their peers and it is very unfair. The more we do to protect our youth, the better. My mother and father put the fear of God into me with regard to smoking. I would be in my bedroom and would hear my dad getting up at 7 o'clock in the morning. All I could hear from his bedroom as he went down to the scullery to have a shave was a constant cough. At the end of the day, we all love our parents and I could have had a lot more years with mine were it not for their smoking.

This legislation is a step in the right direction and I support it but more needs to be done. Vaping is really taking over at the moment, especially among young females, because of the colourful cartridges and so on. The Minister is doing a good job. We give him a lot of flak and indeed, only this morning I was talking to him about GPs and everything else. It must be said that he is a Minister who answers the phone and if he can help, he will; our youth needs help.

Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputy Durkan, you were a smoker once upon a time, were you not?

Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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Yes, indeed, I was a smoker for a long time. Thankfully, I am glad to be able to say that I no longer consume. I welcome the regulation of tobacco sales because the regulation element is important, from all sides.

We all received correspondence from various people alleging various omissions from legislation in the past and possible abuses. Generally, however, people welcome the proposals, and I hope the legislation works. It is alleged that some vapes are not really vapes as they still exceed the harm threshold for tobacco. That is the allegation. I have not been able to do other than to accept it and put it forward for the Minister's attention and consideration. I have no doubt he has received these submissions.

The first thing we need to recognise is that the intention of the exercise has to be to dissuade young people from starting to smoke and to encourage those who are smoking away from smoking tobacco. While it may not be the final answer to go towards vapes, anything that helps to reduce the tobacco smoking taking place and to remove it into a different area should be welcomed.

The next thing we need to be absolutely certain of is that we dissuade people from becoming addicted in any way. We need to ensure that there is no possibility of an addiction developing as a result of moving from tobacco to vaping and-or moving to vaping that may still be harmful if it leads to continued tobacco smoking. That is our duty, and I ask the Minister, who is in control of considerable information at this stage, to examine the issues that have come up and the queries that have been raised in a way that is sufficient to assuage any concerns that might at a later stage tend to allow people to come forward and say, "If you did that then, we would not be in the situation we are in now." That is the old story, of course.

The other thing we want to try to do at this stage is to ensure that vaping does not lead to a new beginning for tobacco smoking. That is the most important of all. I discontinued smoking years and years ago. I smoked for 27 years. It was a cold-turkey stop; I just stopped. That can happen but it does not always happen. Some people find it very difficult to break the habit. All I ask the Minister to do in this situation is to ensure, insofar as one can, that nothing is left around that could be a facility to continue the habit or to return to the habit, knowing that some people find it very difficult to change and to break their habit.

Tobacco is a drug and it has been around for a long time. It is a serious threat to people's lives and well-being, and we have to recognise that and deal with it. That has been recognised before this but counterarguments come up from time to time. We need to be alert and aware of the counterarguments and the potential there is for a glamorisation of smoking in any way in the future, knowing that there are a lot of other drugs around at this time and they are all harmful. We need to take stock of society and ourselves and declare whether we are in favour or against because use is growing. The use of narcotics and alcohol is growing. There comes a time when some kind of regulation needs to be introduced that will encourage people to indulge to a lesser extent in a way that is beneficial to their health and to society and in a way in which, in the long and the short run, will be of beneficial assistance to the economy in general.

The Bill contains what is necessary, or as near as possible to what is deemed to be necessary. The Minister needs to be sure, insofar as he can, that there are no hanging threads that would allow loopholes to develop whereby somebody can come up with the idea that they have found a new formula that is absolutely harmless, that is, until we find out something different. We need to be alert to that kind of thing.

Our society is under a considerable threat from a whole lot of sources at the moment, and those threats are manifold, be they from drugs, alcohol or smoking, none of which are of benefit to the individual human being. When prohibition was abolished in the United States - I know the answer to this as well - consumption of alcohol went up by 4,500%. There are those who make the excuse that this was from a very low base. It was not from such a low base at all, as we all know from reading books and looking at films set in that era. Availability was definitely one of the causes of the problem, and availability is one of the main causes of our problems with habit-forming drugs of one description or another, so availability is an issue that will have to be dealt with in all such cases at some time in the future.

Thomas Pringle (Donegal, Independent)
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I am grateful for the opportunity to contribute to the debate. I support this legislation and its intention to raise the minimum legal age of sale of tobacco products to 21 in an attempt to accelerate the decline in adult smoking prevalence.

Smoking cigarettes has been proven to cause death, ill health and disability. Tobacco use is the leading cause of preventable death in Ireland, and almost 6,000 smokers die each year from tobacco-related illnesses. Studies have shown that every week 1,000 people are hospitalised and more than 100 people die in Ireland from smoking-related diseases. As well as this, the regulatory impact analysis of this Bill cites estimated figures for the annual financial impact of smoking of €10.6 billion every year. Some €506 million of that includes hospital-based costs, primary care costs and domiciliary care costs and, therefore, not only does smoking have significant health-related harms; it also has a very negative financial impact.

Research has shown that experimentation with tobacco use before the age of 18 has been a strong predictor of daily use in adults. This is why it is important we do all we can to reduce smoking among young people. Although raising the legal age to purchase tobacco products to 21 might not have a huge impact on those aged 18 to 20 accessing tobacco, I believe it will have a significant impact on 15- to 17-year-olds accessing tobacco because they are less likely to be in the social circles of those aged 21 and older. Research and history has shown this. A US modelling study suggests that a policy of raising the age of sale to 21 has the potential to reduce smoking rates by 25% among 15- to 17-year-olds and by 15% among 18- to 20-year-olds. In Ireland, when we raised the age of the sale of tobacco from 16 to 18 in 2007, analysis found that it reduced smoking prevalence and the likelihood of ever having tried a cigarette among 14- and 15-year-olds.

This legislation can only be seen as a positive step. I believe, however, that it is also a missed opportunity to address the increase in vaping among young people, as other speakers have mentioned. Research shows that 8% of the population currently use e-cigarettes, and this percentage is much higher for young people. Some 16% of men aged 15 to 24 use e-cigarettes, and a massive 20%, or a fifth, of women aged 15 to 24 use e-cigarettes. This is a trend we are seeing not just in Ireland or Europe but globally, so it requires a global response or, at the very least, more focused research into this trend and its effects. The European School Survey Project on Alcohol and Other Drugs in 2019 found that, among 15- to 16-year-olds in Ireland: "Almost four in 10 students ... had tried e-cigarettes and almost one in 5 ... were current users, making both ever-use and current use of e-cigarettes higher than use of combustible cigarettes."

The Growing Up in Ireland study showed that the rate of 13-year-olds who had tried cigarettes or tobacco fell from 9% to just 3% in ten years. As you would imagine, that is very positive but nearly 10% of 13-year-olds had tried vaping.

Emerging research indicates that the prolonged use of vapes may lead to an increased risk of heart and lung conditions. The World Health Organization states that these products are harmful to health and that it is too early to provide a clear answer on their long-term health impacts. Nicotine is highly addictive and some evidence suggests that minors who never smoked before who use e-cigarettes can double their chances of starting to smoke cigarettes later in life. Because of this, I believe e-cigarettes should be treated as seriously as tobacco cigarettes.

I supported the Public Health (Tobacco Products and Nicotine Inhaling Products) Bill 2023 when it came through the Dáil last year and welcomed the restrictions on the sale of e-cigarettes, including the ban on sales from mobile premises and vending machines. What is the Government doing to ensure that these restrictions are being fully and properly implemented? As we know, it is festival season and many of our young people will attend concerts and festivals over the coming months. It seems that mobile premises selling e-cigarettes are still a feature at many of these venues despite the law having come into effect in December. It calls into question the effectiveness of introducing legislation if the restrictions legislated for are not being enforced. As I have said repeatedly, legislation must come with implementation. Otherwise, what is the point in legislating for anything at all? That is a problem in this House. We often view legislation as being the be-all and end-all while no enforcement actually takes place in the wider world. That is a real problem and it can be seen in the fact that mobile premises are still selling e-cigarettes at concerts around the country despite the ban. I urge the Minister to consider the necessary steps to ensure legislation is being implemented on the ground and to put such steps in place. What will have a positive effect is not passing legislation here in the House but making sure that legislation is implemented and takes effect.

Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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As I said yesterday or the day before, I believe I am agnostic on all matters that come before the House but I must say that anything to do with smoking tobacco touches a raw nerve with me. Having regard to the fact that people on all sides of the House are supporting the legislation, I therefore commend the Minister, his officials and all the parties supporting the Bill. The truth of the matter is that smoking cigarettes has had a devastating effect on people the length and breadth of the country. Some families have a predisposition to being damaged. I have personal experience of this in that my mother, who died from lung cancer, was one of five siblings, two of whom died from lung cancer in their 40s. My mother and her brother died in their very early 70s. The one who did not smoke lived to be 98. I have only two male cousins on my mother's side. They both smoked and they both died from cancer. I am wise enough not to have smoked but that does not mean the Grim Reaper will not come to get me in some way or other. What the Minister is doing is laudable.

David Cullinane (Waterford, Sinn Fein)
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There is not universal support for the Bill.

Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Is there not? I thought there was. Mea culpa. Is Sinn Féin not supporting it?

David Cullinane (Waterford, Sinn Fein)
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No.

Stephen Donnelly (Wicklow, Fianna Fail)
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I thank colleagues for their time today and for their contributions to the debate, which has been very useful and thoughtful. I note that there appears to be broad support for the Bill. The Government will obviously be supporting it. We have heard from several Independent Members and from the Social Democrats. We will see where other Members and parties in the Opposition are but I want to acknowledge that broad support. The one party we know is not supporting the Bill is Sinn Féin. That is entirely within its rights.

I will try to address various issues raised by colleagues throughout the debate. The first has regard to whether the Bill is workable. Various arguments have been put forward to say that it is not enforceable or, even if it is, that it will not have any impact and that younger people will simply go around the scrum to find somebody who is 21.

Issues were also raised around free choice and how we are generally seen to be adults under law when we turn 18. There are different ages for different things, however. In healthcare, the medical age of consent is 16. You can drive a car at 17 and I believe you can still drive a Honda 50 at 16. You can buy your first drink at 18. You used to be able to buy cigarettes at 16. The age of 18 is not a hard and fast rule but we generally see 18 as a pivotal point in our lives where we move from adolescence to adulthood. I fully accept that. We thought this through very carefully for that reason. We tested the Bill in respect of a lot of the challenges brought forward here. We tested it ourselves and I asked myself many of these questions. Is it reasonable to impose any restrictions on choice above the age of 18? Is it enforceable? Will it have any effect or will people simply be able to bypass it? Having considered the matter at length, my very clear conclusion was that this is absolutely the right thing to do because it is going to save a lot of lives in the future.

Is it enforceable? Of course, it is enforceable. We brought in the minimum age of 16 some years ago and that was enforced, although not perfectly. That was then increased to 18. Was that enforced? It was. Is there more we can do on enforcement? I am sure there is. Deputy Paul Donnelly raised the question of the pretty lax enforcement procedures to date and referenced some examples. I accept that. We rectified a lot of that in the vaping Act that we brought in last year. The penalties and enforcement measures available to the courts under this Bill are the same as those under the vaping Act, which represented a significant step forward. Deputy Donnelly may not have been aware of that Act but, previous to it, his points would have been absolutely fair.

While I know they are being raised in good faith, some of the concerns being raised are similar to those raised in respect of the workplace smoking ban. On free will, we heard many people say that they are adults and that if they want to go into a pub and have a cigarette, that is their choice. We heard similar things around enforcement. People said that no publican would actually enforce the ban and that people would continue to smoke. The truth is that, as a nation, we did not know what was going to happen but it was incredibly successful and it set Ireland up as a leading country as regards radical public health measures that help. I hope that this will be the same and I believe that it is entirely possible to address the concerns that are being raised in good faith here in the Dáil. On the issue of enforcement, it is something we apply across the board. It is something that we simply need to do.

Will it have any impact? The real-world evidence we have from countries that have done this shows that it certainly does have a very important and meaningful impact. The modelling also suggests that it will have a profound and very important impact. It also comes down to common sense. As I said earlier and as Deputy Shortall made reference to, the most important group here is those aged 15 to 17 years. Will it be harder for someone aged 15 or 16 years today to get access to cigarettes if he or she needs to know a 21-year-old rather than an 18-year-old? We all know the answer is "Yes". Is it perfect? Of course, it is not. Will it be harder? Of course, it will. That will make a big difference.

A lot of speakers referred to the two vaping Acts. We passed an Act last year that did several things. It banned the sale of vapes to anyone under the age of 18. It also did a lot of other things, many of which were tobacco control measures, although that did not get much attention at the time. I refer to vending machines, licensing regimes, prohibitions regarding children's events and other things. Colleagues are quite rightly saying that there is more to be done. I fully agree with that but there is a process that we have to follow. This involves public consultation and notification to the EU. We are taking a leading position on this. I am very happy to tell colleagues that the results of the public consultation will be published in the coming weeks. If they will excuse the pun, they come with a health warning. There appears to have been an orchestrated campaign on the part of some of the vaping outlets to get their customers to respond to the survey.

We need to take the results with a health warning attached to them.

What are we looking at? We are looking at controls on the display of vapes in shops. Personally, I would move it to the same place as cigarettes and have a plain display behind the counters, as is done with alcohol. We are looking at significant bans on flavours. We are all agreed on that. We are looking at having much plainer packaging. There is broad political consensus around that. Another area is smoking in outdoor dining areas. I see the Minister of State, Deputy Ossian Smith, is here. He has been pushing for banning disposable vapes. He can correct me if I am wrong but I believe he and I are both fully supportive of that. That will go into the upcoming vaping Bill. The officials present have been working hard on that legislation. I assure colleagues that work on the Bill before us has not displaced that legislation and it has not slowed down. We have deeply committed public health officials. They have been doing both Bills in parallel. I acknowledge their work and indeed the work of two Chief Medical Officers. I had the great pleasure and honour of working with both Dr. Tony Holohan, who was the first person with whom I had this conversation around smoking, in 2021, and his successor, Professor Breda Smith, both of whom are strongly supportive of the measure.

Various Deputies referenced civil society. One of the Sinn Féin Deputies, Deputy Paul Donnelly, I believe, referred the Irish Cancer Society with regard to smoking inequalities and points the society made, with which I fully agree, in terms of the link between health outcomes for an individual householder or community and the wealth of that community. There is no question about that. An interesting aspect is that my officials advised me that about half of the health inequalities we see can be related to higher smoking levels in lower income areas. Therefore, one thing we can and should do is to reduce smoking generally. By doing so, we are having a really important, indirect impact on those health inequalities, which are completely unacceptable. This speaks to exactly the reasonable and real concern that Deputy Donnelly raised.

Colleagues also raised questions about other countries and whether we will be out on our own on this. The facts are as follows. At least 11 countries have already brought the legal age up to 21. However, they are countries around the world and are not typically western European countries. I have spoken about this with EU health ministers and the World Health Organization and it is interesting that since we brought this in, other countries are now signalling that they are going to go in this direction. Slovenia's national strategy has a minimum age of 21 now. The Netherlands is now looking at it. The Dutch are good on global public health leadership and have now said they are looking at bringing the age up to 21. In Finland, a ministerial working group has been brought together which is looking at raising the age to 20. We will be the first country in the EU. We are going to take a lead on this, just as we did with the workplace smoking ban. As happened with the workplace smoking ban, other countries are now looking very seriously at this as well.

I mentioned civil society. This is not an exhaustive list but some of the groups that are very much in favour of moving the age at which cigarettes can be sold to 21 include the Irish Cancer Society, the Irish Cancer Prevention Network, the Royal College of Physicians of Ireland, the Irish Heart Foundation, the Institute of Public Health and Foróige, interestingly. Some of the polling I have seen and some of the vox pops done by the media on this showed that the majority of people in this age range said they support the measure. I did not know how that was going to land with 18- 19- and 20-year-olds but in fact they were saying, yes, it is self-evident that smoking kills.

We heard personal testimony earlier. I have the same testimony from my own family and I would say most, if not all, of us can share testimony about loved ones we have lost through diseases that have come from years and decades of smoking.

One other point was made and it is probably a good one to end on. It is Deputy Cullinane's question, which Deputy Shortall and others also asked, as to why, if we are interested in banning smoking entirely, we should not say that. I am interested in banning smoking entirely. We probably all agree that if cigarettes were to arrive today and some company or set of companies told us they had this unregulated product and, by the way, it will kill two out of every three people who consume it, will cause a vast amount of pain, suffering, sadness and grief, lead to many funerals, absorb a huge amount of the country's healthcare resource and has no benefits whatsoever and then asked if we minded if they sold it in this country, I do not believe Dáil Éireann would entertain that for ten minutes. We would laugh them out of the room.

What we are dealing with is a legacy issue, whereby the tobacco companies, as we know, knew about the effects of their products long before the public did and we have generations of people who smoke and are addicted to smoking. Would I like to see smoking eradicated in our country in its totality? I absolutely would. This is an important step in that direction.

Colleagues will be aware the New Zealand Government implemented a law. The new Government of New Zealand has since repealed that law. Essentially, it was a smoke-free generation law whereby a particular generation of children born after a particular year could not legally buy cigarettes. Essentially what it did was move it up, year by year, over many years. The Prime Minister of the UK, for now, said it was officially UK policy to do the same thing. If there is a change in the British Government, let us see what the new government says. The person most likely to be Prime Minister very shortly was my counterpart in health during the Covid pandemic. He was the shadow health spokesperson when I sat where Deputy Cullinane is sitting. That is where Keir Starmer was. He has a health background. Let us see if the UK goes with that.

We took advice from the EU. When we were considering this Bill, we got legal advice to see whether we could do this here. The advice we got back was that it would be very difficult to do. However, we are continuing to press and are talking to other member states. We are saying, "For goodness sake, would we not be just better off if there were not cigarettes in the European Union"? Most member states agree. The position might change in the Single Market, but for now the advice we have is we are not able to pursue it.

As I said in the opening comments, we are moving the age to 21. It will be up to a future health Minister, maybe the next one, to have a conversation with Dáil and Seanad Éireann, civil society, the public and clinicians as to whether we should keep going and move on from 21. That is what I mean when I say this is not just another measure to marginally reduce smoking rates. This is the beginning of a fundamentally different approach, one that says we have had enough and we are getting rid of this product in our country. There are legal, democratic and health constraints. We are dealing with a lot of people in very serious addiction to tobacco. We are cognisant of that. However, I believe this is the start of the end of tobacco in our country.

I will finish by thanking colleagues for their time. It has been a very healthy debate. I look forward to discussing it at the health committee as soon as possible. I commend the Bill to the House.

Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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In accordance with Standing Order 80(2), the division is postponed until the weekly division time on Wednesday of next week.