Martin Kenny (Sligo-Leitrim, Sinn Fein)
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2. To ask the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport if he will provide an update on safety measures for staff and passengers onboard public transport. [28970/24]

Martin Kenny (Sligo-Leitrim, Sinn Fein)
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Will the Minister provide an update on the measures he is taking to ensure passengers are kept safe on board our public transport infrastructure throughout the country? As he will be aware, we have had several incidents over the years whereby workers on public transport have been attacked and verbally abused. People do not want to work driving buses, trains or trams any more because of these issues. We also have big issues with passengers feeling endangered. There is open drug dealing and people using threatening and abusive behaviour towards other commuters. People do not feel they have safe public transport, particularly late in the evenings in our capital city. It has become very dangerous to use public transport. We have long called for the application of a public transport policing system to be put in place and we need to see it happen as quickly as possible.

Eamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
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Antisocial behaviour is a societal issue to which public transport is, unfortunately, not immune. Those who regularly use and work in our public transport system are most directly impacted by any incident that occurs on the network. I assure the Deputy that all public transport operators are expending significant resources introducing measures to counter the impact of antisocial behaviour and ensuring the safety and security of public transport passengers and staff. For example, the entire Dublin Bus, Iarnród Éireann, Luas, Go-Ahead and Bus Éireann fleets are fully fitted with CCTV cameras and radios.

Irish Rail has also established enhanced joint protocols with the Garda nationally and locally, including the establishment of rapid response support hubs in 14 locations for intercity services, with staff having direct lines to the Garda for incident support. Further, a joint initiative between public transport providers and An Garda Síochána community engagement units has seen hubs established at Heuston Plaza, Connolly Plaza and Broombridge. Transdev has introduced a new initiative on a pilot basis, using its mobile app, whereby Luas customers can communicate directly through the app with the operator's control room and report an incident of anti-social behaviour as it is happening.

I fully support all of this work, in particular the ongoing positive engagement between An Garda Síochána and the various public transport operators on the issue of safety on public transport. Indeed, officials from the Department met with representatives from the public transport operators, unions, and passenger groups at the recent national sustainable mobility forum in a dedicated workshop on safety and security. The Department and the National Transport Authority, NTA, will continue to carry forward this work with those stakeholders to help ensure the safety of staff and passengers on public transport.

Martin Kenny (Sligo-Leitrim, Sinn Fein)
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There has long been a campaign by the National Bus and Rail Workers Union, SIPTU and others involved in the transport system to ensure we try to develop a national transport policing service, as there is another countries throughout the world. When we travel, we see there is a section of the police that deals with transport issues. We see examples of problems arising here all the time because of the absence of this. Yesterday I listened to a piece on the radio about an incident in County Cork whereby a young woman was sitting on a train and a man sat down beside her. He was abusive and acting inappropriately. She asked the person we normally term the conductor, the person going around checking the tickets, to come. When he did come what did the man do? He jumped up and punched him straight in the face. We are left with a situation where these individuals feel they can behave in this way because there is no deterrent. There is nobody there to call or do anything about it. That man just jumped off the train and went off and it was all over. We need to get to a situation where we have an adequate system in place. The Minister's colleague in Fianna Fáil, the Tánaiste, has suggested he wants to see a dedicated policing service in place for public transport. Will this become Government policy? This is what needs to happen and it needs to happen quickly. If it is not going to happen the Government needs to step to one side. The Government has clearly failed the travelling public in this respect.

Eamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
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The Government, with the transport operators, will protect passengers and staff. The Deputy is right that SIPTU has done very good work in highlighting the concern. I had a meeting with SIPTU officials and some of the drivers who have experienced what is more than antisocial behaviour. It can be terrifying when people are subject to assault or intimidation. No one in the Government wants this to continue. The question is what is the most effective policing deterrent. While some may feel the establishment of a separate transport police force may improve the situation, others argue that it would not and we are better working with An Garda Síochána through the national control centre for Irish Rail and the hubs that Iarnród Éireann has set up. In the past eight years, Iarnród Éireann has increased its spending on security by approximately 70%. The person who committed the assault is subject to arrest and the courts duly taking action. I believe this is best managed or handled through An Garda Síochána rather than trying to pretend a separate police force would do. I fail to see what a separate police force might do to address the particular example given by the Deputy. What we need are layers of security, including the 14 hubs I mentioned in Iarnród Éireann's case and including the use of CCTV and An Garda Síochána. A separate force would not be a miracle cure.

Martin Kenny (Sligo-Leitrim, Sinn Fein)
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With respect, we are not suggesting a separate force. What we are suggesting is a division of An Garda Síochána that would be dedicated to public transport policing. This is what we are suggesting and it is has also been suggested by the trade unions involved. The Minister said it would not make any difference. The reality is that on the Luas, DART and other systems there are private security people but they do not have the powers to arrest or detain people. They do not have the powers to act in the way members of An Garda Síochána can. This is the difference that needs to be brought to bear on this. I agree with the Minister that we need to see more people use public transport. We need to roll out more public transport. We need to have it running later in the evenings. We need to have it there to provide a better service for people. It needs to be affordable, efficient, effective and on time but it also needs to be safe. If more people are going to be using it, they need to be assured it is safe to use. The only way they will be assured it is safe to use is if there are proper services in place with regard to policing it. This is why I certainly feel, and many of those who have looked at this situation feel, and it is international best practice anyway, we should have a dedicated policing service which is a division of An Garda Síochána. It would not be on top of, extra to or apart from but part of An Garda Síochána. They would be boots on the ground and at the train stations and bus stops and on public transport services to protect people. This is the only way we can resolve the situation.

Eamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
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I accept the Deputy's point. As he said, he is speaking about a division within An Garda Síochána. Again, in regular communication with An Garda Síochána on the matter we have asked for advice on what is the best structure. We have to take the advice from the Garda Commissioner. In this case he is best placed to assess how we might want to deploy. We do have special traffic police. There is nothing stopping us if An Garda Síochána believes the current structures are not serving the protection of the peace on our public transport system. I would have no problem-----

Martin Kenny (Sligo-Leitrim, Sinn Fein)
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Clearly not.

Eamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
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-----with An Garda Síochána deciding to manage or operate in a different way.

Martin Kenny (Sligo-Leitrim, Sinn Fein)
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They are clearly not.

Eamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
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We can never completely eradicate it but we do have to take action in every instance to try to stop it. One of the things that to my mind really does work, and it is more on the bus service rather than rail or light rail services, is engagement with the community. It is often about community policing. A lot of the time with the bus drivers I have met it is often about an isolated bus driver being in an area where they do not feel safe. In such an instance it is not just the policing end with An Garda Síochána but it is also about community policing, which can have most effect, and working with communities. It is a multilayered issue we have to address in the same complex way.