Dáil debates

Wednesday, 3 July 2024

Ceisteanna - Questions

Taoiseach's Meetings and Engagements

1:05 pm

Photo of Seán HaugheySeán Haughey (Dublin Bay North, Fianna Fail)
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1. To ask the Taoiseach if he will report on his attendance at the informal meeting of the European Council on 17 June 2024. [26828/24]

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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2. To ask the Taoiseach if he will report on the informal European Council in Brussels. [27043/24]

Photo of Mick BarryMick Barry (Cork North Central, Solidarity)
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3. To ask the Taoiseach to report on his attendance at the informal leaders' meeting of the European Council on 17 June 2024. [27083/24]

Photo of Mary Lou McDonaldMary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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4. To ask the Taoiseach if he will report on the informal European Council in Brussels. [27973/24]

Photo of Holly CairnsHolly Cairns (Cork South West, Social Democrats)
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5. To ask the Taoiseach if he will report on his attendance at the informal meeting of the European Council on 17 June 2024. [28142/24]

Photo of Simon HarrisSimon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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I propose to take Questions Nos. 1 to 5, inclusive, together.

As colleagues will know, I attended an informal European Council meeting on Monday, 17 June in Brussels that largely took place over a working dinner. At this meeting European leaders took stock of the outcome of the elections for the European Parliament, and we began discussions on the key positions in the European Union institutions. As the House will be aware, the EU institutions renew themselves every five years, with a newly elected Parliament and the appointment of a new College of Commissioners, including the President and a Vice President to serve as High Representative for Foreign Affairs. The latter also presides at the Foreign Affairs Council. A new President of the European Council is also appointed for a term of two and a half years, renewable once.

Europe is facing many challenges and great uncertainties. War is being waged on our continent as Russia continues its relentless, brutal aggression against Ukraine. The conflict in the Middle East is having a devastating humanitarian impact in Gaza and causing dangerous instability in the region. Climate change is also gravely damaging the health of our planet and impacting on people all around the world. At a time of such international uncertainty and geopolitical tension, it is important not only that the right people are appointed to these important roles, but that we also act as efficiently and decisively as we can.

I also attended a formal meeting of the European Council in Brussels last week on 27 and 28 June, when we continued our deliberations and reached agreement on how to proceed. Leaders decided to nominate Ursula von der Leyen for a second term as President of the Commission; to appoint former Portuguese Prime Minister António Costa as President of the European Council; and to nominate Estonian Prime Minister, Kaja Kallas, as high representative and Vice President of the Commission.

The European Parliament will now play its role in the process. It will, of course, also decide on its own President. The Parliament will hold its first plenary meeting in mid-July, when it will elect its President, and I hope it will also on that occasion decide on the President of the Commission in terms of the vote that is required. The President of the Commission will then need to begin the task of assembling a new Commission, based on nominations submitted by member states.

Our Government has nominated Deputy Michael McGrath, who will bring great skill and experience to the task. I wish him well and support him fully. Following hearings in the Parliament, the Parliament will then vote on whether to approve the Commission as a whole.

1:15 pm

Photo of Seán HaugheySeán Haughey (Dublin Bay North, Fianna Fail)
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The more things change, the more things remain the same. Following the most recent European Council meeting, Ursula von der Leyen is set to become European Commission President once again, provided, of course, that she is endorsed by the European Parliament. In addition, the centrist coalition in the Parliament has held, by and large, despite the shift to the right in France. I see that the centrist coalition is about to receive two new members, following the decision of Deputy Michael McNamara and Ciaran Mullooly to join the liberal grouping. That might raise a few eyebrows. As the Taoiseach said, Kaja Kallas from the liberal grouping is set to become the EU's foreign policy chief, subject to ratification by the European Parliament. António Costa from the socialist grouping will be president of the European Council. Of course, all of this is much to annoyance of the Italian Prime Minister, Giorgia Meloni.

The European Council discussed security and defence matters. Reference was also made to defence readiness. Last week, the Taoiseach spoke in the House about the European Commission's new European defence industrial strategy and a regulatory proposal for a European defence investment programme. We can see the direction in which the EU is going as regards these issues. Are the implications of these initiatives for Ireland being analysed and assessed carefully? What will our approach be in the future to these developments?

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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Israel would not be able to continue what the International Court of Justice has rightly recognised as a possible genocide, the worst possible crime anybody is capable of committing, without the favoured trade status, political support and arms it receives from the European Union. It simply would not be able to do it. The European Union is the biggest trading partner of Israel. Germany gives it the second largest amount of arms after the United States. Any change to that would massively impact on Israel's ability to carry out the horror that is continuing in Gaza as we speak. It shows no sign, wish or desire to stop this horror, massacre and genocide.

No matter what the Taoiseach says or what public opinion has forced Ursula von der Leyen to roll back on slightly, in terms of her standing shoulder to shoulder with Israel when all of this began, the reality is that she is up to her neck in the horror. How on earth can the Government give her support? How can the Taoiseach or Fianna Fáil horse trade Deputy McGrath's position on the Commission in order to give her support? It is outrageous and shows complete moral bankruptcy for us not to say that we need to replace someone who is up to her neck in the horror that is taking place in Gaza.

Photo of Mick BarryMick Barry (Cork North Central, Solidarity)
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Real life is showing that the centre right acts as a handmaiden for the far right. In the US, the incompetence and policies of Biden and the Democrats is paving the way for Trump. In France, the policies of Macron have paved the way for Le Pen and the far right. There is now a real threat of a far right government by the end of this weekend. By adopting far right policy proposals, many included in the European Union migration and asylum pact, Macron made anti-immigration politics more mainstream and gave a boost to the racists.

Let that be a warning to this country. The Government's adoption of a more hardline stance on immigration is framing immigration as a problem for society, just as Macron did in France. In France, as here, the key to challenging the far right must come from mass mobilisations and the building of an anti-capitalist left. Democratic and anti-fascist resistance committees could be created in all French working-class neighbourhoods, suburbs, schools, universities and workplaces. Such committees could mobilise votes for the New Popular Front and prepare, once the elections are over, to resist the far right in power or ensure that elected officials from the NFP respect their election promises.

Photo of Ruairi Ó MurchúRuairi Ó Murchú (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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More than 37,900 Palestinians in Gaza have been killed over the past nine months, including nearly 15,000 children. On some level, what we have all seen happening on our TV screens is unreal. Israel has refused calls for a summit of the state parties to the EU-Israel association agreement to discuss its compliance with its human rights obligations under the summit. The Commission President has blocked the commissioning of an independent review.

The Taoiseach has obviously endorsed and supports a second term for Ursula von der Leyen as Commission President. Did he raise the letter of his predecessor, seeking a review of the agreement, with her? What answer did she give? Does the Taoiseach see any movement from other European states regarding a review of this? I appeal to all Irish MEPs, including those in the Taoiseach's party and in government, to join Sinn Féin and other Irish MEPs and reject the reappointment of a Commission President who has provided political cover for genocide. I have spoken about our need to move on this State's divestment from companies involved in illegal settlements and our legislation in regard to that. As has been said, we know many EU states, such as Germany, provide weapons and are parties to the genocide. We need to see a hell of a lot more bravery from European states.

Photo of Paul MurphyPaul Murphy (Dublin South West, RISE)
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The far right is, unfortunately, on the march across Europe. It is on the verge of coming to power in France. We will see what has happened by the end of the week. We hope it is not in power. It will be the first far right government in France since the Vichy regime. The party of the RN has its origins in that regime. Members of the SS operated within France in support of the Nazi occupation.

The question for all progressive people across Europe is how the far right can be stopped politically across Europe and much of the world. There are lessons to learn from France. One of those is that the so-called centre, or the extreme centre, as Tariq Ali termed it, paved the way for the far right. In the most immediate sense, Macron called these elections in the hope of bolstering himself, catching the left off guard and opening the door to the far right winning a parliamentary majority. Over the past number of years, his policies have included austerity, increased social deprivation, attacks on workers and pension rights and centring the issue of immigration as if it is the problem. He put forward an immigration law that was supported by the far right, which, because it was so bad and racist, has opened the door to the far right. These forces cannot be trusted. At European level, Ursula von der Leyen shamefully tried to delay a report into the crackdown on media freedoms in Italy in order to flirt with Meloni and try to get her support. It is the left that offers an alternative in the form of the New Popular Front but also on the streets.

Photo of Brendan SmithBrendan Smith (Cavan-Monaghan, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Taoiseach for his response. The Cathaoirleach, other Members of the Dáil and Seanad and I met a delegation from the Ukrainian Parliament yesterday. One of the things the delegation emphasised to us was something of which we are all well aware, namely, the difficulty those people face with a reduction in energy grid capacity. It is under enormous pressure. The country needs generators and transformers. In his deliberations with other Heads of Government at formal and informal meetings, I would like the Taoiseach to keep that particular issue on the agenda as much as possible, as well as all of the other important issues.

The delegation was very pleased that we were one of the first countries to emphasise the need to fast-track membership of the European Union for Ukraine. That is particularly important and it is a policy we should keep driving as much as possible with the new Commission and at Heads of Government level. Monitoring of sanctions against Russia is essential. A recent programme on a British television channel showed that Russian products are coming into Europe and are making huge profits for the Russian Government, oligarchs and others.

Europe must be very vigilant in ensuring the sanctions imposed are implemented in full and have the desired effect on Russia.

1:25 pm

Photo of Simon HarrisSimon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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I am pleased that Deputy Smith, the Cathaoirleach Gníómhach and others met the delegation from the Ukrainian Parliament yesterday. I had the opportunity to meet President Zelenskyy in Brussels last week and, two weeks previously, at the peace summit for Ukraine in Switzerland. I have also had the opportunity to speak to him by telephone twice since becoming Taoiseach. In addition, I had a video call with the Ukrainian Prime Minister. We are in regular contact. We are eager to show solidarity with Ukraine and, for as long as it takes, to show the support the people of this country and the Government have for Ukraine. Deputy Smith is right that energy is a huge concern for the Ukrainian Government and for President Zelenskyy. We are already actively helping in that regard. The ESB has actively helped. The two areas in which we are helping the most are demining and electricity supply. We will continue to do that. I will continue to raise the issues in every forum I attend.

Deputy Smith also made a point about membership of the European Union. I am really pleased that the intergovernmental conference took place. It was a major ask of Ukraine to have it take place in June. It was seen as quite an ambitious timeline. We met it, however, and we got there. That gives a message to Ukraine, and to the world, that we very much see it as part of the European family. That was important to Ukraine. We will keep engaging on that issue.

I want to make a very clear statement that immigration is a good thing. This country is better for the people who have come here and made it their home. Our health service, economy, society, schools, public sector and private sector are the better for it. This is a country that has benefited from migration and from immigration. I say that very clearly. Saying it is not in any way contradictory of the fact that we must, of course, have rules around our migration system and we must enforce those rules. I have a very different political outlook from some of the colleagues sitting across the floor. I have a different perspective from them on how to take on the far right. It is the job of centrist politicians like me not to shirk issues. If they are shirked, it allows a vacuum to develop. That vacuum is often exploited by the far right, which tries to sow division in this country. We may disagree on many issues and on how to address those issues but I certainly do not think there is any disagreement from any Deputy currently present in the Chamber that immigration is a good thing. I wanted to state that clearly as Taoiseach.

I do not want to predict the outcome of the French elections. There is a second round taking place. I am conscious that the various alliances I am reading about, the withdrawal of candidates and so on could have a significant impact on the final outcome. I will be very happy to comment on the issue once the election is concluded.

On the re-election of President von der Leyen, one gets the impression that it was only Ireland that backed her. In fact, with the exception of the Prime Ministers of Hungary and Italy, all other member states, whether they have a socialist government, as many do, or a conservative government-----

Photo of Paul MurphyPaul Murphy (Dublin South West, RISE)
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They are not really socialist governments.

Photo of Simon HarrisSimon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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The Spanish Prime Minister is clearly a socialist.

Photo of Paul MurphyPaul Murphy (Dublin South West, RISE)
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He is a socialist in name only.

Photo of Simon HarrisSimon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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Let us not have a debate on the meaning of socialism. We can have that discussion another time. I am pointing out that across the political spectrum represented at the European Council, there was backing for President von der Leyen. There is an important democratic point to consider in regard to the lead candidate system. Ursula von der Leyen was the lead candidate for the European People's Party, EPP, which is the party that won the most seats in the European Parliament elections.

President von der Leyen's position on the Middle East has been misrepresented entirely. It is for member states to find the courage they need to find on this issue. I have raised the March letter with her. The position set out in that letter remains our position. At the European Council, I have raised the question of recognition. I have raised, and changed, the European conclusions in regard to the International Court of Justice. Europe needed to be much stronger in that regard. I have raised the issue of UNRWA and the importance of financially supporting the Palestinian Authority.

I might come back to Deputy Haughey in the next round on his question about defence readiness. In fact, I think the Cathaoirleach Gníómhach is indicating that I can continue. I initially thought he was going to ask me to finish.

Photo of Cormac DevlinCormac Devlin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
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I was going to ask the Taoiseach to conclude but I will allow a little extra time.

Photo of Simon HarrisSimon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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I will do my best to be quick. It is fair to say at this stage that the conversations that are happening at a European level on security and defence are in the provisional and preliminary space. By that I mean we are yet to see proposals tabled. There are a lot of views, particularly from countries in eastern Europe, which are much closer to the front line in terms of Russian aggression, on how Europe should deal with its security and defence. Ireland should never recuse itself from those conversations. We live in Europe and we are of Europe. The security, defence and well-being of this country matters to me. It is the greatest obligation of any government to keep its people safe.

As discussions develop, we will have two main concerns. First, everything we participate in will have to be consistent with our military neutrality. Second, the question of how these initiatives are funded will be a really important discussion. The idea of changing the mandate of the European Investment Bank is interesting in and of itself. However, if the pot for the bank is still the same, what will that mean for the work on climate and digital transition? I am happy to keep the House updated as those discussions progress.