Dáil debates

Tuesday, 2 July 2024

3:15 pm

Photo of Hildegarde NaughtonHildegarde Naughton (Galway West, Fine Gael)
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I move:

Tuesday's business shall be: - Motion re Further Revised Estimate for Public Services 2024 [Vote 29] (back from Committee, without debate).

- Courts, Civil Law, Criminal Law and Superannuation (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2024 [Seanad] (Second Stage) (if not previously concluded, to adjourn either at 7.29 p.m. or after 3 hrs 40 mins, whichever is the later). Tuesday's private members' business shall be Second Stage of the Residential Tenancies (Amendment) Bill 2024, selected by Sinn Féin.

Wednesday's business shall be: - Motion to Instruct the Committee on the Health (Miscellaneous Provisions) (No. 2) Bill 2024 (without debate, and any division claimed to be taken immediately prior to Report Stage of the Bill).

- Statements on Tackling all forms of Domestic, Sexual and Gender-Based Violence (not to exceed 2 hrs 27 mins).

- Motion re Proposed approval by Dáil Éireann of the report by the Minister for Defence, regarding service by the Defence Forces with the United Nations in 2023*.

- Motion re Proposed approval by Dáil Éireann of Ireland's participation in two Permanent Structured Cooperation Projects and two European Defence Agency Projects*.

*Back from Committee ‒ two separate motions to be debated together and brought to a conclusion after 1 hr 52 mins

- Health (Miscellaneous Provisions) (No. 2) Bill 2024 (Report and Final Stages) (to commence no earlier than 6.30 p.m. and if not previously concluded, to adjourn after 90 minutes)

- Automatic Enrolment Retirement Savings System Bill 2024 (Amendments from the Seanad) (if not previously concluded, to adjourn either at 10.04 p.m. or after 90 mins, whichever is the later) Wednesday's private members' business shall be the Motion re Gender-Based Violence, selected by the Labour Party.

Thursday's business shall be Second Stage of the Public Health (Tobacco) (Amendment) Bill 2024 (if not previously concluded, to adjourn at 6 p.m. or after 4 hrs 16 mins, whichever is the later).

Thursday evening business shall be the Motion re Report entitled “Environmental Impact of Local Industrial Emissions in Castlecomer, Co. Kilkenny”.

In relation to Tuesday’s business, it is proposed that:

1. the ordinary routine of business as contained in Schedule 3 to Standing Orders shall be modified to the following extent: (i) the Dáil may sit later than 10.32 p.m.;

(ii) the time allotted to Government business shall be extended in accordance with the arrangements for that business; and

(iii) private members’ business may be taken later than 6.12 p.m., with consequential effect on the commencement time for Parliamentary Questions to the Tánaiste and Minister for Defence and topical issues; 2. the proceedings on the Motion for Further Revised Estimate for Public Services 2024 [Vote 29] shall be taken without debate;

3. the proceedings on Second Stage of the Courts, Civil Law, Criminal Law and Superannuation (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2024 [Seanad] shall, if not previously concluded, be interrupted and stand adjourned either at 7.29 p.m. or after 3 hours and 40 minutes, whichever is the later, and shall not be resumed on Tuesday; and

4. notwithstanding anything in Standing Order 170(2), the proceedings on Second Stage of the Residential Tenancies (Amendment) Bill 2024 shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion after 2 hours and 2 minutes.

In relation to Wednesday's business, it is proposed that:

1. the ordinary routine of business as contained in Schedule 3 to Standing Orders shall be modified to the following extent: (i) the Dáil may sit later than 9.30 p.m.;

(ii) Statements on Tackling all Forms of Domestic, Sexual and Gender-Based Violence shall be taken on the conclusion of oral Parliamentary Questions to the Taoiseach pursuant to Standing Order 46(1);

(iii) the SOS pursuant to Standing Order 25(1) shall be taken on the conclusion of the statements; and 3

(iv) the weekly division time may be taken later than 8.45 p.m. and shall in any event be taken on the adjournment or conclusion of proceedings, as appropriate, on the amendments from the Seanad to the Automatic Enrolment Retirement Savings System Bill 2024; 2. the proceedings on the Motion to Instruct the Committee on the Health (Miscellaneous Provisions) (No. 2) Bill 2024 shall be taken without debate and any division claimed thereon shall be taken immediately prior to Report Stage of the Bill;

3. the Statements on Tackling all forms of Domestic, Sexual and Gender-Based Violence shall not exceed 2 hours and 27 minutes and the following arrangements shall apply thereto: (i) the arrangements for the statements, not including the Ministerial response, shall be in accordance with the arrangements agreed by Order of the Dáil of 30th July, 2020, for 2 hours and 15 minutes, and the Resolution of the Dáil of 20th September, 2023, providing for two minutes for non-aligned members;

(ii) following the statements, a Minister or Minister of State shall be called upon to make a statement in reply which shall not exceed 10 minutes; and

(iii) members may share time; 4. the proceedings on the Motion re Proposed approval by Dáil Éireann of the report by the Minister for Defence, regarding service by the Defence Forces with the United Nations in 2023 and the Motion re Proposed approval by Dáil Éireann of Ireland's participation in two Permanent Structured Cooperation Projects and two European Defence Agency Projects shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion after 1 hour and 52 minutes and the following arrangements shall apply thereto: (i) the two motions shall be debated together, with separate questions put on all proceedings thereon;

(ii) the arrangements for the speeches, not including the Ministerial response, shall be in accordance with the arrangements agreed by Order of the Dáil of 30th July, 2020, for 1 hour and 40 minutes, and the Resolution of the Dáil of 20th September, 2023, providing for two minutes for non-aligned members;

(iii) following the speeches, a Minister or Minister of State shall be called upon to make a speech in reply which shall not exceed 10 minutes; and

(iv) members may share time; 5. the proceedings on Report and Final Stages of the Health (Miscellaneous Provisions) (No. 2) Bill 2024 shall commence no earlier than 6.30 p.m. and shall, if not previously concluded, be interrupted and stand adjourned after 90 minutes, and shall not be resumed on Wednesday; and

6. the proceedings on the amendments from the Seanad to the Automatic Enrolment Retirement Savings System Bill 2024 shall, if not previously concluded, be interrupted and stand adjourned either at 10.04 p.m. or after 90 minutes, whichever is the later, and shall not be resumed on Wednesday.

In relation to Thursday's business, it is proposed that:

1. the ordinary routine of business as contained in Schedule 3 to Standing Orders shall be modified to the extent that topical issues may be taken earlier than 7.24 p.m. and shall in any event be taken on the adjournment of Government business, or where that business concludes within the available time, on the conclusion thereof, with consequential effect on the commencement time for the Motion re Report entitled “Environmental Impact of Local Industrial Emissions in Castlecomer, Co. Kilkenny”, and on the time for the adjournment of the Dáil; and

2. the proceedings on Second Stage of the Public Health (Tobacco) (Amendment) Bill 2024 shall, if not previously concluded, be interrupted and stand adjourned either at 6 p.m. or after 4 hours 16 minutes, whichever is the later, and shall not be resumed on Thursday.

Photo of Seán Ó FearghaílSeán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Is that agreed?

Photo of Mary Lou McDonaldMary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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It is not agreed.

It is welcome that the Labour Court has finally formally intervened in the ongoing pay dispute between Aer Lingus and the Irish Air Line Pilots' Association. I do not think it can be overstated how essential it is that a resolution is found to this dispute, for families who are worried their holidays may be cancelled, but equally for the tourism and hospitality sectors which are deeply worried by it. I called on the Taoiseach some weeks ago to intervene in this matter. I repeat that I hope the Labour Court's efforts are fruitful and that we find a resolution but in the event there is no resolution, it is imperative that time is cleared on next week's schedule for debates, statements, and for the Taoiseach to make clear, as Head of Government, what intervention he proposes to make at that stage.

Photo of Ivana BacikIvana Bacik (Dublin Bay South, Labour)
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I acknowledge, as others have done, the announcement today by Deputies Shortall and Catherine Murphy and I add my voice to those wishing them well. As Deputy McDonald has said, it is rare to see an outbreak of girl power in this House, or women power as I prefer to say. There are far too few women here and it makes their extensive careers in public service all the more noteworthy. I commend them on that and wish them well.

I ask the Taoiseach for a debate on local government and local democracy. In my view, we have seen in the past few days a really inappropriate intervention by a Minister of State seemingly seeking to derail the traffic plan agreed for Dublin City Council by councillors. This raises concerns about local democracy, the appropriateness of Ministers intervening where decisions have been made at local government level. This intervention sounds to me a little like a Fine Gael dog whistle. Our leader on Dublin City Council, Councillor Darragh Moriarty, has described himself as deeply concerned about this. I would like a debate on local government. We have seen international reports noting just how weak our local government system in Ireland is. We should have debate in this House.

The ESRI report published today shows that the Government's housing targets are far too low. The Housing Commission report, which was published last May and is yet to be discussed in the Dáil, showed that the Government's housing targets are far too low, with records rents, record house prices and record numbers of people who are homeless. The dogs in the street know that the housing targets are far too low, so why is the Government dithering and delaying on publishing updated housing targets? Can we have time this week to discuss the Housing Commission report, the ESRI report and the housing targets?

3:25 pm

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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It is an absolute disgrace that the Taoiseach signed an order to exclude the Aungier Street site from a requirement to deliver social and affordable housing, and that that site is going to be handed over to private interests when we urgently need social and affordable housing on public sites. It really underlines the criticism of the Housing Commission report regarding the need for a radical reset of housing policy and its references to the ineffective decision-making, reactive policy and the many other criticisms that the report made of the Government’s failed housing policy. We have been asking for weeks, since even before the publication of the commission report, for a debate in this House. A very small amount of time is left before the recess. Can we have a firm commitment that we will have a discussion on that report because there are many issues, including the Aungier Street site and the failure on affordable housing, that need to be urgently discussed before this House breaks up for the summer?

Photo of Verona MurphyVerona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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Domestic violence and child abuse concerns that were recently raised in a Department of Justice report found that assessors do not have adequate training or accreditation to properly assess family violence. I am dealing with a case where a family were told last year by Tusla that they should not allow recommended access to go ahead. One parent was told by Tusla that it should not go ahead, and at this stage, a year later, Tusla is accusing that same parent of parental alienation. This report says it all. The assessors in front of the courts, and the judges determining custody and access based on the evidence of those assessors, have made grave errors. We need to revisit this and have a grave discussion with regard to what the Department of Justice report says, sooner rather than later. We are interfering with children's rights and people's families.

Photo of Mattie McGrathMattie McGrath (Tipperary, Independent)
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I, too, on behalf of the Rural Independent Group, wish Deputies Murphy and Shortall the very best following their announcement.

All is not well in this State regarding children. Thirty-nine children in State care are missing. Just think of that. It is the second-last week before we break up for the summer recess, and 39 children are missing in State care. We need an urgent debate on Tusla. One Garda sergeant and three gardaí are suspended from duty and are facing charges of perverting the course of justice, burglary of flats and false imprisonment. A Tusla employee, a peace commissioner, is charged with forging a search warrant. Those are very serious charges. I 100% agree that people are innocent until proven guilty, but all is not well with Tusla. We need an urgent debate here, with questions and answers with the Minister for children especially. Imagine that 39 children in State care are missing, and we walk in and out of here and raise all kinds of issue. We had a children's referendum and there are children's rights and everything else, and this charade is going on. These children are missing from State care with no accountability, not a shred of it. We seriously need to debate this and have questions and answers with the Minister for children. He says he has the utmost faith in Tusla and has never missed a night's sleep over it, but I certainly do not and many others do not either.

Photo of Simon HarrisSimon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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I thank colleagues. Deputies Shortall and Murphy must be particularly delighted in their decision to retire. theyhave united the House in a very rare moment, which may prove to be another historic moment in their trailblazing careers. Again, on behalf of the Government, we wish them very well.

There were a range of issues. Of course, they can all be considered in the context of the Business Committee. We had a discussion last week about how the Business Committee does go through a process, which we need not go through again here every week, although, obviously, Members have a right to raise it.

To Deputy McDonald's point, I think we all welcome the Labour Court intervention. As I outlined in my earlier answer, a lot of work has been done by ihe court and by the parties to get to this point, including talks that went on, I think, until about 11 o'clock last night. I have already met, through the Labour Economic Employer Forum, LEEF, with both labour union leaders and business leaders.

The Labour Court is the mechanism through which the State gets involved and I was to see where that will go but I am happy for there to be a debate on Aer Lingus should the need arise.

With regard to Deputy Bacik, of course we can have a debate on local government any time but when someone becomes a Minister he or she does not lose his or her right to speak up and to speak out on issues. What the Minister of State, Deputy Higgins did, was entirely appropriate in terms of sharing the views of business representatives with the city council but being very clear in all of her public commentary, as am I in mine, that it is a matter for the city council to decide when best to do this. We all want to see improvements to traffic congestion and public transport and we want to see it done in a way that works. I saw some comments from Dublin City Council officials last night at what I think was their monthly meeting to that effect as well. A debate on broader local government issues will be, of course, always welcome.

I am not sure of the phrase Deputy Cian O'Callaghan used but there is no kicking the can down the road in terms of new housing targets. They will be announced in the autumn and the process is quite clear. Part one of it was the day with the ERSI publishing its helpful research about 12 different scenarios. Part two will be the draft national planning framework, which I know the Deputy will agree will be an important part to go with it. I expect that will go to Government next week and that will go to consultation over the summer. When we reconvene in the autumn, there will be an ability then, based on those two pieces of the information, for the Government to set out our housing targets for 2025 onwards.

In response to Deputy Boyd Barrett, I am happy to have a debate on the Housing Commission report because I have questions to ask him as well. I am not sure whether he supports all of the recommendations. I am not sure he supports the recommendations around supporting small landlords or the need for private financing as well. I am not sure there is any party in this House that supports every single one of the recommendations of the report though some wrap themselves in the executive summary of it. I look forward to getting into granular detail on this issue also. We can see-----

3:35 pm

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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Will it happen?

Photo of Simon HarrisSimon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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We can see that best at the Business Committee. We have to get a lot of legislation-----

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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No, it is not, it is up to the Government.

Photo of Simon HarrisSimon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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I cannot hear the Deputy.

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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It is up to the Government.

Photo of Simon HarrisSimon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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Well it is up to the Government but -----

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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I have been asking for weeks.

Photo of Simon HarrisSimon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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We can consider the matter but we need to obviously also look at what legislation needs to get passed here between now and the Dáil recess as well but we are giving consideration-----

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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That is not a "Yes", then.

Photo of Simon HarrisSimon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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That is not a "Yes"; it is a "Let's see". Let us look at whatever things need to get through the House-----

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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But it is in the your hands.

Photo of Simon HarrisSimon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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-----next week as well.

Deputy Verona Murphy raised a very good piece of work done by the Department of Justice that highlights a real and serious need for reform in a number of areas related to our family courts. The Minister for Justice is very committed to this. In the first instance I might suggest she could respond to the Deputy in terms of the next steps we intend to take and I am very happy for that to be discussed again. With regard to Tusla, the Government is always very happy to consider that.

Photo of Seán Ó FearghaílSeán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Are the proposed arrangements for this week's business agreed to?

Photo of Mattie McGrathMattie McGrath (Tipperary, Independent)
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The Taoiseach did not respond to me.

Photo of Seán Ó FearghaílSeán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Taoiseach did. Was it about Tusla?

Photo of Simon HarrisSimon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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The Deputy voted against the children's referendum and is now referencing it in the Dail.

Photo of Mattie McGrathMattie McGrath (Tipperary, Independent)
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Where are the rights now?

Photo of Simon HarrisSimon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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They are in the Constitution.

Photo of Mattie McGrathMattie McGrath (Tipperary, Independent)
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Yes.

Photo of Seán Ó FearghaílSeán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Please, Deputies. Are the proposed arrangements for this week's business agreed to?

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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Not agreed; not unless we get commitment to a debate.

Question put: "That the proposed arrangements for this week's business be agreed to".

The Dáil divided: Tá, 71; Níl, 57; Staon, 0.


Tellers: Tá, Deputies Hildegarde Naughton and Cormac Devlin; Níl, Deputies Mattie McGrath and Richard Boyd Barrett.

Colm Brophy, Richard Bruton, Colm Burke, Peter Burke, Mary Butler, Thomas Byrne, Jackie Cahill, Dara Calleary, Ciarán Cannon, Jennifer Carroll MacNeill, Jack Chambers, Niall Collins, Patrick Costello, Simon Coveney, Barry Cowen, Cathal Crowe, Cormac Devlin, Alan Dillon, Stephen Donnelly, Paschal Donohoe, Francis Noel Duffy, Bernard Durkan, Damien English, Alan Farrell, Frank Feighan, Joe Flaherty, Charles Flanagan, Seán Fleming, Norma Foley, Simon Harris, Seán Haughey, Martin Heydon, Emer Higgins, Heather Humphreys, Paul Kehoe, John Lahart, James Lawless, Brian Leddin, Josepha Madigan, Catherine Martin, Steven Matthews, Paul McAuliffe, Charlie McConalogue, Helen McEntee, Michael McGrath, Aindrias Moynihan, Michael Moynihan, Jennifer Murnane O'Connor, Hildegarde Naughton, Malcolm Noonan, Darragh O'Brien, Joe O'Brien, Jim O'Callaghan, James O'Connor, Willie O'Dea, Kieran O'Donnell, Patrick O'Donovan, Fergus O'Dowd, Roderic O'Gorman, Christopher O'Sullivan, Pádraig O'Sullivan, Marc Ó Cathasaigh, Éamon Ó Cuív, John Paul Phelan, Anne Rabbitte, Neale Richmond, Eamon Ryan, Brendan Smith, Niamh Smyth, Ossian Smyth, David Stanton.

Níl

Chris Andrews, Ivana Bacik, Mick Barry, Cathal Berry, Richard Boyd Barrett, John Brady, Martin Browne, Pat Buckley, Holly Cairns, Sorca Clarke, Joan Collins, Michael Collins, Catherine Connolly, Rose Conway-Walsh, Réada Cronin, David Cullinane, Pa Daly, Paul Donnelly, Dessie Ellis, Mairead Farrell, Kathleen Funchion, Gary Gannon, Thomas Gould, Johnny Guirke, Danny Healy-Rae, Michael Healy-Rae, Brendan Howlin, Martin Kenny, Claire Kerrane, Pádraig Mac Lochlainn, Mary Lou McDonald, Mattie McGrath, Denise Mitchell, Imelda Munster, Catherine Murphy, Paul Murphy, Verona Murphy, Johnny Mythen, Gerald Nash, Carol Nolan, Cian O'Callaghan, Louise O'Reilly, Darren O'Rourke, Eoin Ó Broin, Donnchadh Ó Laoghaire, Ruairi Ó Murchú, Aengus Ó Snodaigh, Thomas Pringle, Maurice Quinlivan, Patricia Ryan, Seán Sherlock, Róisín Shortall, Duncan Smith, Brian Stanley, Peadar Tóibín, Pauline Tully, Violet-Anne Wynne.

Question declared carried.

3:55 pm

Photo of Mary Lou McDonaldMary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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It seems waste collection companies are threatening to hike prices for collecting recycling bins. Their claim is that this is to make up for the loss of plastic bottles and drink cans to the deposit return scheme that is now in place. If this price hike goes ahead, it will be a blow to households, many of which are struggling with the cost of living. People have engaged with the deposit return scheme in good faith to play their part in protecting the environment. It seems they now face a rip-off for doing the right thing. I am sure the Taoiseach will agree this cannot be countenanced. The idea that households could face higher costs to protect the profit margins of private companies is outrageous. When will the Government follow the example of other EU states and bring the bins back under public control to ensure households are treated fairly and to protect them from unfair costs?

Photo of Simon HarrisSimon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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The Government is not planning to do that. The Department of the Environment, Climate and Communications is currently engaging with the Irish Waste Management Association and other stakeholders such as Repak to conduct a robust evidence-based process to quantify what substantive impact, if any, the introduction of the deposit return scheme will have on the waste collection system in Ireland over the longer term.

Photo of Ivana BacikIvana Bacik (Dublin Bay South, Labour)
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I welcome Finola Cassidy to the Public Gallery. She is here on behalf of the Irish Thalidomide Association.

Once again, I ask the Taoiseach what he proposes to do to ensure thalidomide survivors in Ireland will have justice. It is now more than 63 years since the drug thalidomide was removed from the market. Also, it is more than 63 days – in fact, it is 70 – since the Taoiseach told Finola Cassidy he had a file on his desk on finally bringing this saga to an end for campaigners and that he would engage with them, yet they have heard nothing. Therefore, will the Taoiseach now commit to the House and survivors that he intends to move to deliver a State apology, statutory healthcare and a fair deal for the small number of remaining survivors who really need to see justice at this point and who are deeply frustrated?

4:00 pm

Photo of Simon HarrisSimon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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I do intend to make progress on this very shortly. I welcome Finola Cassidy, who has, from her perspective, become an all-too-frequent visitor to this House. It is always good to see her. I thank her for the way she engages. We are committed to the continued support of the health and personal social service needs of Irish thalidomide survivors. I have been engaging with Government colleagues on this matter. Progress has been made on certain aspects and an update will be brought to the Government very shortly.

Photo of Róisín ShortallRóisín Shortall (Dublin North West, Social Democrats)
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I thank the Ceann Comhairle, the Taoiseach and party leaders for their very kind good wishes for Deputy Catherine Murphy and me. We very much appreciate them.

I want to return to an issue I raised with the Taoiseach last month, that is, changes in Revenue's rules about the taxation of GP income, which very much affect GP charities. I am thinking, in particular, of a charity run by Dr. Austin O'Carroll called GPCareForAll. The Minister beside the Taoiseach, Deputy Donohoe, will be very familiar with the terrific service that charity operates out of Summerhill Primary Care Centre. It is about to set up a similar service in Finglas, an area that is very much bereft of proper GP services. These are services for the most marginalised communities, communities in which other GPs are not, in the main, particularly interested in operating. There were interim arrangements that allowed for the charities to operate as partnerships. Changes since last January have prevented this and will render these two essential services non-viable. Revenue has not done anything about this and I do not believe it fully appreciates the detail of it. I ask that the Taoiseach and the Minister for Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform, Deputy Donohoe, intervene in this because the charities will have to pull out very soon unless action is taken.

Photo of Simon HarrisSimon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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I thank Deputy Shortall. I acknowledge this is the second time she has raised this. She raised it with me last month and I spoke to the then Minister for Finance about it. My understanding is that the Minister for Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform, Deputy Donohoe, has done likewise and that the Department of Finance is examining the issue. However, I appreciate the point the Deputy made about time sensitivity, so she should allow me to speak to the Department of Finance and get back to her.

Photo of Bríd SmithBríd Smith (Dublin South Central, People Before Profit Alliance)
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The waste-management companies have said plastic bottles and cans are the most valuable items in the household green bins and that, because they do not get them any more, they want to put up the price of the collection of these bins. The Taoiseach did not answer Deputy Mary Lou McDonald's question. Will he countenance the increase in the price of green bin collection because of the policy of profit-making from it? If the bottles and cans were valuable, the companies should never have been charging for green bin collection. However, they were and now want to increase the charge. Will the Taoiseach say to the companies that they must not do this and that the market must not crucify people during a cost-of-living crisis, when waste management should never have been privatised? Will the Taoiseach answer another question that Deputy Mary Lou McDonald asked and that I am going to repeat: does he agree with the Opposition that waste management should be taken back into public control and run publicly on a not-for-profit basis?

Photo of Simon HarrisSimon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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I answered that question the last time. That is not currently the Government's plan.

On the specific issues, we do need to have an evidence base here rather than just accept what a waste company, with the greatest respect to it, or any other organisation says. The charges applied by waste management companies are managed by those companies but they are subject to compliance with relevant legislation, including contract and consumer legislation. It is a condition of the permits under which waste collectors operate to charge fees that respect the polluter-pays principle and to incentivise the segregation of waste. The National Waste Collection Permit Office has responsibility for issuing all waste collection permits and it is now engaging on this matter, including in respect of some of the information or the charges or suggestions being put forward by the companies.

Photo of Peadar TóibínPeadar Tóibín (Meath West, Aontú)
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Vincent Kearney, RTÉ's current northern correspondent, believes the PSNI attempted to identify sources he worked with while with the BBC. His case came to light when two other journalists made similar allegations, namely that the PSNI had recorded their phone calls. On two occasions when I was talking to the journalists in the north of Ireland, the phone calls dropped, and immediately after this a recording of my phone calls with those journalists played back to me, which made me believe there was a malfunction of the recording of the phone calls by somebody. Is it good enough that the PSNI records any phone calls of journalists in the north of Ireland, and is it good enough that it potentially records phone calls by a Member of this Dáil? After 25 years of the Good Friday Agreement, is this not a threat to the functioning of democracy in the north of Ireland? Will the Taoiseach raise this and ask the incoming Secretary of State for Northern Ireland to investigate this practice by the PSNI?

Photo of Simon HarrisSimon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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I am conscious of commenting on the issue. I thank Deputy Tóibín for raising it but I have no knowledge of it. Obviously, these are very serious matters. If the Deputy wishes, I am happy to correspond with him on the matter and raise it with the relevant authorities.

Photo of Mattie McGrathMattie McGrath (Tipperary, Independent)
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The people of Cashel lost their medical services in Our Lady's to Clonmel back in the 1980s. They have been waiting and waiting for a new 60-bed community unit in Cashel. We expected it to be started at this stage, but, hey presto, the authorities decided the site was not big enough at St. Patrick's Hospital. We all believed it was. Now the authorities are supposed to be searching for a new site. Where are the plans and at what stage is the new community nursing home for Cashel? Cashel and south Tipperary, and indeed parts of west Waterford, deserve a proper community nursing home for their elderly and infirm.

Photo of Mary ButlerMary Butler (Waterford, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Deputy for his question. As he will recall, in 2016 the then Government put in place a system to rebuild 90 CNUs the length and breadth of the country. Forty-eight of these have been completed. The one in Clonmel, which the Deputy visited with me recently, will be completed by the end of the year. On the one in Cashel, the estates section is currently considering a site. We want an appropriate site that is suitable. What I can guarantee is that there will be a new CNU in Cashel. It is in the capital plan. The challenge at the moment is determining an appropriate site. As soon as I have information, I will let the Deputy know.

Photo of Joan CollinsJoan Collins (Dublin South Central, Independents 4 Change)
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In May, there was a report on the two-tier system for cancer treatment, the issue being the two-year difference in the approval times for reimbursement of new cancer drugs of the public and private systems. As I said at the time, there should be no differences in people's ability to gain access to life-saving treatment based on how much money they have. I am sure the Minister of State agrees. Professor Michaela Higgins, president of the Irish Society for Medical Oncology, has stated,

"It means we know we are prescribing medication for our patients that are proven to be less effective and to provide them with a poorer chance of survival and, in some cases, a poorer quality of life."

When I raised the issue with the Taoiseach, he said he would make a direct inquiry to Professor Higgins on this matter and get back to me. He has not done so. What was the result of the inquiries and what does the Government plan to do to end the two-tier system of cancer treatment?

Photo of Simon HarrisSimon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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Truthfully, as recently as yesterday at my diary meeting we agreed to have a meeting with Professor Higgins. I have been seeking to have that meeting for some time and it should now be scheduled. I certainly spoke to my team about it yesterday, and I will be very happy to revert to the Deputy on it.

Photo of Willie O'DeaWillie O'Dea (Limerick City, Fianna Fail)
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The Taoiseach will be aware of the difficulties families encounter in accessing mental health services, particularly for children and young people. An organisation in Limerick called Dóchas Midwest Autism Support caters for 200 young people and children each week and it has direct access to 300 families. It recently applied for a children's disability services grant and was refused for reasons that were incomprehensible to me. If it had succeeded, it would have doubled its capacity. Services for young people with autism in the mid-west are sparse and would be infinitely worse if this organisation did not exist. Does the Government intend to increase provision for organisations like this because they do invaluable work, as the Taoiseach knows, and deal with families that are often under great stress? Can the Taoiseach confirm whether the grant will be available again in the not-too-distant future?

Photo of Mary ButlerMary Butler (Waterford, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Deputy very much for his question. At the start, he mentioned that this matter falls under mental health services, but it actually falls under the remit of my colleague Deputy Anne Rabbitte, the Minister of State responsible for disabilities. Obviously, there are some children with dual diagnoses who need the support of CAMHS and who might have a secondary diagnosis of autism. With regard to the mental health budget, €108 million has been spent this year alone on various grants to various organisations to support them, but I will certainly raise the issue the Deputy has raised today with the Minister of State, Deputy Rabbitte. Many organisations send business cases to the various CHOs, and they are examined. In some instances, they fall down with respect to governance or accounts, but I will certainly ask the Minister of State, Deputy Rabbitte, to look into this for the Deputy.

4:10 pm

Photo of Patrick CostelloPatrick Costello (Dublin South Central, Green Party)
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There is a significant problem with how we are building and providing schools. This is not just an issue in Dublin South-Central, but the major problems in that constituency are emblematic. Our Lady of Hope School has no PE hall. Setanta Special School was due to be completed in 2020, but the latest date given is now quarter 3 of 2025. It shares rooms with Riverview Educate Together National School, which has no PE hall and is itself pressed for space. There is a refusal by the Department of Education to provide a Gaelcholáiste for Dublin 8 despite there being the numbers for one. Indeed, there is a refusal by the Department to provide any secondary school for Dublin 8 despite the fact that the standards set out by it are met. There is a refusal to provide a Gaelscoil in the Dublin 10 and 12 areas.

I have just raised six or seven issues. The Department of Education is not providing-----

Photo of Seán Ó FearghaílSeán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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I am sorry, but the Deputy can only ask a question about one issue. If he wants to table a Topical Issue about schools generally in his constituency, I will happily take that.

Photo of Simon HarrisSimon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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In that vein, let me take the question as one about school supply in Dublin South-Central. I thank the Deputy for raising a number of schools, including Our Lady of Hope School and Setanta Special School, the need for Gaelcholáistí in Dublin 8, 10 and 12, and the need for a secondary school more generally. I will raise each of these issues with the Minister, Deputy Foley. Obviously, we have allocated a very significant amount of capital to schools building projects and I will seek an update and, perhaps, a meeting for the Deputy on these matters.

Photo of John BradyJohn Brady (Wicklow, Sinn Fein)
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Last month, the Taoiseach stated that he intended to hold an inquiry into the handling of Covid before the next general election and that its terms of reference would be published within weeks. One month later and there has been nothing. I do not often agree with the Minister for Health, Stephen Donnelly, but I do when he says that, during Covid, nursing homes in Wicklow were left screaming out for help they did not get. It is important that there be a full module in the inquiry to examine what happened in nursing homes, including St. Bridget's Nursing Home in Crooksling, where 12 residents died of Covid after being moved to the Tymon North community unit in Tallaght despite a resident having been diagnosed with Covid just before the move. The residents’ families deserve to know the details of the events surrounding their deaths and such homes need to be included in the inquiry. When will the inquiry start, when will its terms of reference be published and will the Crooksling nursing home be included in the investigation?

Photo of Simon HarrisSimon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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I am very much aware that, at what was a very difficult time in our country and the world, many people in Ireland worked extremely hard to save lives. I am very proud of a lot of the work that was done during Covid. However, it is very important that, after any pandemic, there is a look-back, there are lessons learned and there are answers provided. We are reflecting on the terms of reference. I said that it would be within weeks, and we are still within weeks. I intend to bring those terms to the Government shortly.

Regarding St. Bridget’s specifically, once the terms of reference are clear, I suppose we will be able to ascertain whether that is the appropriate way or whether there are other ways for those families to get the answers or information they require.

Photo of Bernard DurkanBernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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Parental alienation is where children are kept for long periods from meeting one or other of their parents, during which time it is suggested that they may be subjected to immersion therapy, a practice that is illegal and banned everywhere except where prisoners of war have been victims of it. Will the Taoiseach confirm that no such acts have taken place and no children have been subjected to this so-called corrective therapy or, if there have been, that those instances will be publicised?

Photo of Simon HarrisSimon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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Thanks, Deputy Durkan. Unfortunately, I cannot do that because I do not have that level of knowledge. I acknowledge that the Deputy has raised the issue of what he calls parental alienation on a very regular basis. What I know is that the Minister for Justice has just completed and published a very substantial piece of work in respect of how our family courts operate and how the voices and rights of children are at the centre of all that happens. This is a piece of work that I know the Deputy welcomes. The key will be implementing its recommendations. I will ask the Minister, Deputy McEntee, to revert to Deputy Durkan.

Photo of Bernard DurkanBernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Taoiseach.

Photo of Jennifer Murnane O'ConnorJennifer Murnane O'Connor (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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People are being denied disability allowance and are not being given oral hearings. Every case I am working on gets a standard reply asking for further information. I respect that this change happened during Covid, but it is important that hearings be brought back, as this approach is affecting people and their illnesses. They need to have these hearings. I ask that the Taoiseach examine this matter.

Another issue is that of carer’s allowance appeals. It takes eight months for appeals to come through. Again, each reply asks for further information. Is it due to staffing? What is happening? In my lifetime, I have never seen it take so long for people to get disability or carer’s allowance or whatever. This issue needs to be addressed. I would appreciate the Taoiseach reverting to me on it.

Photo of Simon HarrisSimon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Deputy for raising these matters. As a constituency TD, I know the importance of the oral hearing, whatever way that takes place, be it virtually or in person, in terms of the person or someone on his or her behalf having the ability to put across the case in a way we cannot always capture in written form on an application form. I will seek an update from the Minister, Deputy Humphreys, on that and on waiting times for carer’s allowance appeals.

Photo of Mairead FarrellMairead Farrell (Galway West, Sinn Fein)
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Third level education is important, but it is also costly. One of the costs is the student contribution charge, which increased considerably during the austerity period. It should be removed fully, which Sinn Féin has committed to doing. The current Taoiseach reduced the charge by €1,000 in recent years, but that reduction was temporary. We need to see it become a permanent reduction. Now that he is Taoiseach, will he commit to reducing it permanently and then getting rid of it?

Photo of Simon HarrisSimon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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My thanks to Deputy Farrell for raising this issue. She and I agree on the need to reduce the costs of going to college and barriers to education. As she said, we made progress on reducing fees, albeit on a cost-of-living and, therefore, temporary basis. Even as Taoiseach, any announcement in respect of these matters will be a matter for budget day, but I will revert to the Deputy.

Photo of Matt ShanahanMatt Shanahan (Waterford, Independent)
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Everyone in the House will recognise the bravery of Ms Bláthnaid Raleigh who waived her right to anonymity in a traumatic trial. An issue highlighted in the case related to the Criminal Law (Sexual Offences) Act, which allows counsellors’ notes as admissible evidence. Victims’ rights groups have highlighted this threat of admissibility as making victims think twice before taking a case. England is pursuing new legislation to provide extra protections in this regard. Will our Government go further and prohibit fully the inclusion of victims’ counselling records in trials? I am sure the Taoiseach will agree that we cannot have people’s right to pursue justice, but also their right to pursue health restoration, impacted by the current legislation.

Photo of Simon HarrisSimon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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I agree with Deputy Shanahan fully and I join with him in praising her courage. I thank Ms Bláthnaid Raleigh for speaking out yesterday after enduring the most horrific and unimaginable assault. There are no words to capture what she went through. Her words when she spoke out yesterday, including about the need for men to speak out and the lack of men speaking out on this, are words that should ring right throughout this House and throughout Irish society today. I know we all agree on that.

I fully agree with the Deputy on the issue of counselling notes and the like. I was trying to find the details in my own notes, but I understand that the Minister intends to outlaw it. I will get the Deputy a more detailed note on the matter.

Photo of Seán Ó FearghaílSeán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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We are out of time, but I am going to take 30-second questions from the three remaining Deputies.

Photo of Michael CollinsMichael Collins (Cork South West, Independent)
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Shannonvale is a picturesque community with considerable potential outside Clonakilty, but for 26 years, it has been left abandoned by the State. It has an appalling sewage overflow crisis. Today, a local councillor, Mr. Daniel Sexton, visited the area and told me that the local playground was closed and locked off to the public due to raw sewage on the ground. There is a stinking substance leaking into the River Argideen as far as Clonakilty’s intake mains water pipe. I have raised this issue approximately ten times in the House over the past 12 months, all to no avail. The people of Shannonvale are sick to their stomachs of listening to promises for 26 years. They have listened to the council blaming Uisce Éireann, Uisce Éireann blaming the council and Ministers visiting but delivering zero. Will the Taoiseach make a commitment to the people of Shannonvale and Clonakilty that delivering a sewerage scheme for them this year will be a priority?

Photo of Pádraig Mac LochlainnPádraig Mac Lochlainn (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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The Taoiseach will know that, in the Irish fishing community, there is a view that there is one rule for super factory ships and super trawlers and another for inshore and island fishers. A recent incident reported in the Mail on Sunday highlighted the serious failure to enforce Common Fisheries Policy rules in respect of the vessel MFV Afrika on 14 March. I ask that the Taoiseach have this matter examined urgently and to send a clear signal that Common Fisheries Policy applies equally regardless of whether the boat is a super trawler or a vessel from one of our islands.

Photo of Verona MurphyVerona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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A magnificent new building in Maudlintown, County Wexford, is soon to be the new home of a women’s refuge. If I could get a response to my question in writing, I would be happy. Is there a guarantee that funding will be available to provide safe and accessible services to women and children who are victims and survivors of domestic, sexual and gender-based violence?

Will there be funding to ensure the operational costs are fully covered and that the refuge is sustainable? The refuge service should not have to go out with buckets to fill the funding gaps.

4:20 pm

Photo of Simon HarrisSimon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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In response to Deputy Collins on Shannonvale and the need for the sewerage scheme, I will make immediate inquiries and will revert to the Deputy. I thank him for raising the issue..

I fully agree with Deputy Mac Lochlainn on the point that the Common Fisheries Policy rules should apply without fear or favour to fishermen, trawlers and to everything of all sizes, regardless of size. I will raise this specific issue which the Deputy has brought to my attention with the Minister for agriculture, as I am not across the detail of it. I will ask that he revert to Deputy Mac Lochlainn.

In response to Deputy Verona Murphy, like her I welcome that the women's refuge spaces and centre in Wexford are now nearing delivery. I will ask the Minister for Justice to specifically come back to the Deputy on the operational cost issue she has highlighted.