Thomas Gould (Cork North Central, Sinn Fein)
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In the first five months of this year, there was an 87% drop in the number of patients seen in SouthDoc in Blackpool compared with 2019, representing almost 9,000 fewer patients seen in the first six of months of the year. My constituents who use the SouthDoc out-of-hours facility have told me that people are being sent to the Kinsale Road, Youghal or Midleton, but SouthDoc in Blackpool is refusing to see them because it is closed in all but name. When people ring the service, they are told to go to SouthDoc on the Kinsale Road.

I was recently told in the Chamber that SouthDoc Blackpool was not closed and was operating. That is not true. A Minister of the Government came in here and told me an untruth. I believe the Minister was given the wrong information from SouthDoc, but I want the record corrected and I want it stated here as a fact that SouthDoc in Blackpool in Cork is closed.

Dozens of people have contacted me and my colleagues in Cork to say that when they ring SouthDoc in Blackpool they cannot get an appointment. It is the position of the Government and HSE that the service is open. People are lying to the people of Cork North Central. It is a disgrace that the Minister could come in here with information from the HSE, which it received from SouthDoc, that is an actual lie.

I am not sure what response the Minister of State has in front of her, but I have the figures here. In January 2019, 2,399 patients were seen. In January 2024, 230 patients were seen. In 2019, the service was seeing 600 patients each week, but in 2024 it is seeing 60 patients a week. The practice is in receipt of millions of euro to provide a service, but it is not doing so. It is not good enough. The people on the northside are sick and tired of being told lies and neglected. Is it the position of the Government that it will stand over millions of euro being paid for a service that is not being delivered? Will the Government finally believe the people of the northside of Cork and force SouthDoc Blackpool to reopen?

To add injury to injury, last Friday a GP practice on Shandon Street in my constituency closed and the patients were moved to another doctor outside the area. Another GP service in Blackpool will close on Friday. Where is the plan for GP services on the northside of Cork city? Last year, a GP was lost in Blarney and nothing happened. How is this allowed to happen? Who is responsible for this? It is the responsibility of the Minister of State and HSE. People in my area cannot see a GP during the day, out-of-hours or at the weekend. There are sick children.

A couple of weeks ago it took someone nearly an hour to get to the Kinsale Road because tens of thousands of people were in Cork for a big concert in Páirc Uí Chaoimh. Why should someone who lives five minutes from Blackpool have to travel across the city? There is no connectivity and no bus service. People who do not drive or do not have a family member to bring them to see a GP have to get a taxi at €30 or €40 a go. This issue does not just affect the northside of the city. It affects Glanmire, Whitechurch, Carrignavar, Blarney and Togher. Over 100,000 people are affected.

Mary Butler (Waterford, Fianna Fail)
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Before I start, I have to call out what the Deputy said. It is unfair to call any Minister a liar or say that he or she is telling lies. I want that on the record of the Dáil. Any Minister who comes in here in good faith to answer Topical Issue Matters is given a response which is local to the area. We have to work with the information that is given to us. I am now giving the Deputy an opportunity to withdraw the statement he made that a Minister came in here and told lies.

Thomas Gould (Cork North Central, Sinn Fein)
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I said the Minister got the information from the HSE and SouthDoc. What the Minister said was a lie. The Minister might have believed it to be true, but the information he had was incorrect.

I want the Dáil record corrected because I am right and the Minister is wrong. He got information from SouthDoc in Blackpool that is a lie. May I say-----

Mary Butler (Waterford, Fianna Fail)
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No, you cannot. You will have time to come back in. You can say it then.

Thomas Gould (Cork North Central, Sinn Fein)
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I have the figures from the Department.

Cathal Berry (Kildare South, Independent)
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The Deputy will get his opportunity to respond. To clarify, he said the information was incorrect and inadvertently given by the Minister. That is his suggestion.

Mary Butler (Waterford, Fianna Fail)
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No, he actually used the words "lie" and "liar". I heard exactly what he said. I just want to be clear-----

Cathal Berry (Kildare South, Independent)
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He clarified that he was referring to incorrect information. Is my understanding correct, Deputy Gould?

Thomas Gould (Cork North Central, Sinn Fein)
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I said the Minister gave information that is a lie. I am not saying the Minister lied. He got information from the HSE and SouthDoc that was a lie.

Cathal Berry (Kildare South, Independent)
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I understand. The information was incorrect and inadvertently given.

Mary Butler (Waterford, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy is saying that, in his opinion, the information was a lie.

Cathal Berry (Kildare South, Independent)
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I thank Deputy Gould for the clarification.

Mary Butler (Waterford, Fianna Fail)
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As the Deputy will be aware, the SouthDoc co-operative provides GP out-of-hours services. It has 23 health centres located across Cork and Kerry, including the Blackpool treatment centre in north Cork city. The issue of withdrawal or reduction of out-of-hours services at certain treatment centres has been raised several times with the HSE and SouthDoc. Multiple assurances have been received from SouthDoc that there has been no reduction in service to patients in Cork city.

Thomas Gould (Cork North Central, Sinn Fein)
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The Minister of State is reading out another lie from SouthDoc.

Cathal Berry (Kildare South, Independent)
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The Deputy will get an opportunity to respond presently.

Thomas Gould (Cork North Central, Sinn Fein)
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What she is reading out is wrong.

Cathal Berry (Kildare South, Independent)
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Please resume your seat, Deputy. The Minister of State should continue.

Mary Butler (Waterford, Fianna Fail)
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In Deputy Gould's opinion, I am reading out a lie.

Thomas Gould (Cork North Central, Sinn Fein)
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You are just repeating the same thing we have heard previously.

Cathal Berry (Kildare South, Independent)
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Deputy Gould, you will have two minutes to respond. I ask the Minister of State to proceed.

Mary Butler (Waterford, Fianna Fail)
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SouthDoc has provided assurances that the Blackpool treatment centre has not closed and there is no intention to withdraw services from any SouthDoc treatment centre. Patients continue to be dealt with by appointment only. That will remain unchanged. Appointments are available following contact with the SouthDoc call centre and triage services. Any person who requires out-of-hours GP care will be provided with that care either at a suitable treatment centre or, where his or her clinical condition so requires, in the patient's home. An assurance has again been received that consultations by appointment are still provided at the Blackpool treatment centre where appropriate. Furthermore, SouthDoc has advised, as I said, that there is no intention to close any of its treatment centres.

Regarding the issue of the closure or relocation of two GP services, Cork Kerry Community Healthcare has advised that one GP in the Cork city area has resigned. Where a vacancy arises, the HSE takes appropriate measures to ensure continuity of care for the patients concerned. The HSE has advised that interviews have concluded to ensure this patient panel will transfer safely and effectively to another GP within the area. The HSE is to communicate with the general medical services, GMS, patients concerned within the next two weeks informing them of their new GP.

Thomas Gould (Cork North Central, Sinn Fein)
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I want to be really fair to the Minister of State. I know she is reading out a response she was given. It is the same response other Ministers have read out previously. She stated that she has received assurances from the Blackpool treatment centre. I have in my hand a copy of the facts and figures I obtained in the response to a parliamentary question. In January 2019, 2,399 patients were seen at Blackpool. In January 2024, that number was 230. In February 2019, 1,899 patients were seen. In February 2024, the number of patients was 253. It continues the same all the way along. This proves that Blackpool is closed.

I have telephoned the Blackpool centre because I have had family members who were sick in recent months. I was told I had to take my wife and daughter to the clinic on the Kinsale Road roundabout for treatment. I was told on the telephone that no patients were being seen at Blackpool and that it was providing only call-out services. The doctor who should be based in Blackpool SouthDoc is in his car going everywhere from Mallow to Youghal to west Cork. That is not a GP service. There should be a GP based in Blackpool.

When the Minister of State leaves tomorrow morning, will she contact the HSE in Cork and Kerry and ask it to get on to SouthDoc? I want the record cleared and made straight. The information she has given, like other Ministers before her have given, is not right and it is not accurate. It is a lie SouthDoc is telling her and the HSE. I am not calling her a liar. I am calling the people in SouthDoc liars.

Cathal Berry (Kildare South, Independent)
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The Deputy is contesting the information.

Thomas Gould (Cork North Central, Sinn Fein)
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I have the information in my hand. In addition, I rang the service when my wife and daughter had the influenza that was going around. I have been raising this issue for a year. How can a company that is getting millions of euro to provide an out-of-hours service get away with not providing that service? It closed the clinic in Kilworth. It has laid off drivers across Cork county and cut back on services. Will the Minister of State please take on board what I am saying? I do not want to argue with her. My argument is with SouthDoc for not providing a service to people on the north side of Cork city.

Mary Butler (Waterford, Fianna Fail)
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I understand the Deputy's frustration. I have heard his concerns and I will convey them to the Minister. I have read out the best information that was made available to me this evening before I came to the Chamber. I wanted to take this matter because I know the Deputy wanted a Minister from the Department of Health to do so. I specifically stayed to do that.

SouthDoc has provided assurance that the Blackpool treatment centre has not closed and that it has no intention of withdrawing services from any SouthDoc treatment centre. It is saying its out-of-hours consultations are being provided on an appointment-only basis. Appointments are available following contact with the SouthDoc call centre - the reference was not to Blackpool but to the SouthDoc call centre - and triage services. Any person who requires out-of-hours GP care will be provided with that care at a suitable treatment centre. SouthDoc does not specify it will be provided at Blackpool. We are all dependent on out-of-hours GP services, regardless of where we live. I might be sent to Dungarvan or to Waterford city. Alternatively, SouthDoc is indicating, where the clinical condition of the patient so requires, care will be provided in his or her home. The Deputy has acknowledged that the SouthDoc doctor attends patients in their homes. There is a little bit of a contradiction there in what he is saying.

GPs do retire and are entitled to do so. The number of doctors entering GP training has increased by 80% between 2015 and 2023. There were 286 new entrants to GP training last year. A total of 350 new-entrant places have been provided for this year. Based on expected GP graduate and GP retirements numbers, the Department of Health estimates that between 2023 and 2027, between 1.5 and three GP graduates will on-board for every GP retirement.

Thomas Gould (Cork North Central, Sinn Fein)
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That is not happening on the northside of Cork city.

Mary Butler (Waterford, Fianna Fail)
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There was a retirement of one GP from the SouthDoc service. The HSE will communicate with the GMS patients concerned within the next two weeks informing them of the identity of their new GP.

Thomas Gould (Cork North Central, Sinn Fein)
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I am asking officially for the record to be put straight.

Cathal Berry (Kildare South, Independent)
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The Deputy has already contested the information given. It is on the record.

Thomas Gould (Cork North Central, Sinn Fein)
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What do I need to do now? I do not doubt the Minister of State but-----.

Cathal Berry (Kildare South, Independent)
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The Deputy's contribution and the Minister of State's response are on the record.

Thomas Gould (Cork North Central, Sinn Fein)
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I want the record corrected.

Cathal Berry (Kildare South, Independent)
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The Minister of State has undertaken to look into the matter.

Thomas Gould (Cork North Central, Sinn Fein)
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If what I am saying is correct, will she come back in here and correct the record?

Mary Butler (Waterford, Fianna Fail)
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No. I conveyed the information that I was given. We are eating into other people's time.

Cathal Berry (Kildare South, Independent)
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The Minister of State and the Deputy are free to discuss this matter outside the Chamber.

Thomas Gould (Cork North Central, Sinn Fein)
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I have put in questions and Topical Issues on this matter.

Cathal Berry (Kildare South, Independent)
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We are moving on to the second Topical Issue.

Thomas Gould (Cork North Central, Sinn Fein)
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The responses I have received are not true.

Mary Butler (Waterford, Fianna Fail)
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In your opinion.

Thomas Gould (Cork North Central, Sinn Fein)
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I have the figures in my hand.

Cathal Berry (Kildare South, Independent)
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We are moving on.