Matt Carthy (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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59. To ask the Taoiseach and Minister for Defence if he will propose measures to ensure that members of the Defence Forces who have been convicted of violent assaults cannot continue to serve. [28121/24]

Gary Gannon (Dublin Central, Social Democrats)
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61. To ask the Taoiseach and Minister for Defence if the law forbidding the Defence Forces from suspending or terminating the contract of staff for serious offences before the cases for such offences have been heard by a civilian court is under review; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [28368/24]

Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Question No. 59 is in the name of Deputy Matt Carthy. Is Deputy Cronin dealing with this Question?

Réada Cronin (Kildare North, Sinn Fein)
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Yes. I wish to ask the Tánaiste and Minister for Defence if he will propose measures to ensure that members of the Defence Forces who have been convicted of violent assaults cannot continue to serve.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I propose to take Questions Nos. 59 and 61 together.

I thank the Deputies for raising this serious question. I wish again to express my unequivocal condemnation of any form of gender-based violence. Such behaviour has no place in a modern society or in the Defence Forces. Let me be quite clear about this: the Defence Forces are not a place where someone who has been convicted of serious offences, including sexual offences or domestic or gender-based violence, can continue to serve.

At the outset, it is also important I note the pride we share in the vast majority of the men and women of the Defence Forces who serve the nation so admirably at home and on peacekeeping missions abroad. The actions of a minority completely go against the values of the Defence Forces and have no place, as I said, in a modern workplace, particularly in an organisation which is there to protect people. Last week, I issued an instruction for the placement with immediate effect of serving personnel in the Defence Forces who are either convicted of sexual assault or rape and awaiting discharge, or are currently before the courts for such offences, to be put on local leave on a without-prejudice basis. The ability to take this measure is already captured in Defence Forces regulations and I have been absolutely clear that it must now be applied uniformly in all such cases.

As the Deputy will be aware, following the recent case, I was first informed on Friday, 21 June of another case involving a member who is still serving after being convicted of assault causing harm. In light of this, I have also requested a report from the Chief of Staff to find out how many serving members of the Defence Forces have civil convictions or are before the civil courts on serious criminal offences. After receiving an initial report, I sought further detail. On Wednesday evening last week, I received a report of 68 Defence Forces personnel who have been recently convicted or are currently before the civil courts on a range of criminal offences including public order breaches, drink driving, drugs offences, physical assault or sexual offences, as well as other offences. I have received legal advice from the Attorney General around restrictions on publishing some of the details of these cases given that many of them are before the courts. I have therefore asked my officials to summarise, which I have articulated in generalities by way of numbers and so forth.

There is a regulatory pathway to discharge or dismiss serving personnel convicted of a serious crime and I have made it absolutely clear that the due process in line with those regulations must be followed. These regulations have been applied and indeed are currently being applied in respect of Defence Forces members. There is no room for inconsistency in this. While I am satisfied there are existing mechanisms in place to deal with such cases, I am open to considering proposals to improve and streamline these mechanisms. Defence Forces regulations are reviewed and amended on an ongoing basis.

I have appointed Peter Ward SC to undertake a high-level analysis of the application of military law in circumstances in which personnel have been convicted of serious offences in the civil courts. Mr. Ward will be asked to come back with an outcome of this high-level analysis, together with any recommendations and any enhanced powers that may be necessary to improve processes, regulations, legislation and reporting arrangements. The terms of reference are currently being finalised.

My priority since becoming Minister for Defence is the urgent transformation of the Defence Forces with a specific focus on cultural transformation. We have a significant programme of work under way to progress this transformation. The establishment of an external oversight body of the Defence Forces on a statutory basis, which is currently progressing through the Oireachtas, is one of a number of important steps in progressing the required culture change programme.

Réada Cronin (Kildare North, Sinn Fein)
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Reports that a naval officer remains in the Defence Forces almost a year after pleading guilty to a serious assault on a woman shows a bit of a pattern. The Tánaiste will forgive the Women of Honour for nodding their heads and saying, "I told you so". The time for learning lessons is over. It is the time to show what can be done. I wish to take this opportunity to salute Natasha O'Brien for courage and bravery. She was very impressive speaking after her court case last week. I really took on board what she said about her speaking for women in the future.

The fact we have 68 members of the Defence Forces with current convictions or are being tried for offences ranging from public order breaches to physical and sexual assault is a real worry. I am aware of the presumption of innocence and all of that.

Deputy Réada Cronin: Reports that a naval officer remains in the Defence Forces almost a year after pleading guilty to a serious assault on a woman shows a bit of a pattern. The Tánaiste will forgive the Women of Honour for nodding their heads and saying, "I told you so". The time for learning lessons is over. It is the time to show what can be done. I wish to take this opportunity to salute Natasha O'Brien for courage and bravery. She was very impressive speaking after her court case last week. I really took on board what she said she was speaking for women in the future. The fact we have 68 members of the Defence Forces with current convictions or are being tried for offences ranging from public order breaches to physical and sexual assault is a real worry. I am aware of the presumption of innocence and all of that in this respect

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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In respect of the individual in the Naval Service, there is currently a process under way, which may be coming to a conclusion. I have been advised by the Attorney General's office the less comment now at this stage, given the potential impact on that process, the better. I hope the House understands that I am not going to comment further on it other than to say, generally, there are regulations which facilitate the discharge of people who have been convicted.

I note that 68 people have not been convicted. Of the aforementioned 68 people, between 40 and 50 of them are before the courts. They are not convicted.

Of those, I think we have about five, and maybe one pending, in respect of a sexual assault and rape charges.

Réada Cronin (Kildare North, Sinn Fein)
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We are at a critical juncture with the Defence Forces in terms of how allegations of abuse are dealt with. The Tánaiste has to take the bull by the horns. Morale in the Defence Forces is very low. I cannot imagine what it is like for ordinary, decent, professional soldiers in the Defence Forces who serve with honour and pride to feel like they are constantly under attack and that the Government and the legislation are letting them down. It is something the Tánaiste has to take seriously. "Two to take her down, and two to take her out" was what Mr. Crotty said. It is time the Tánaiste took those kind of people down and out of the Defence Forces, so that ordinary, decent, professional soldiers can continue to serve with pride and honour.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I too salute the courage of Natasha O'Brien in making very clear her position as a victim. I am conscious that the case has now been appealed by the Director of Public Prosecutions, DPP, so I cannot comment any further. Since I became Minister for Defence, I have focused on changing the culture in the Defence Forces. I mentioned earlier the external oversight body that has been established. There was a lot of resistance in the House to that when the legislation went through. It is now in the other House. I ask Deputies to reflect when they oppose a lot of measures. Believe me, the external oversight body is constructed on the advice of the independent review group as a key element of effecting culture change, along with a whole lot of other things we have done. Yet, I faced a lot of opposition, externally and in the House, to that measure. I agree with the Deputy that we need a fundamental change in culture.