Verona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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I thank the Minister of State for appearing. Last week, I withdrew my Topical Issue because he could not be here. I am pleased to see him here.

The National Association of Regional Game Councils, NARGC, is the organisation on whose behalf I am interested in asking this question. It has 26,000 members nationwide. Last August, the Minister of State announced plans to amend the open season order to remove four species of duck, namely, scaup, pochard, golden eye and pintail duck. Comments in recent days from both the Minister of State and the National Parks and Wildlife Service, NPWS, at a committee meeting that the four aforementioned species were near extinct were met with incredulity by many. Being amber or red on the traffic-light system in itself is not a sign of near extinction. In fact, at a recent meeting of the EU taskforce on the recovery of birds, it was decided, based on scientific assessment, that pochard, one of the four species removed by the Minister of State, should be subject to an adaptive harvest management plan.

There was no proposal from the EU to ban the hunting of pochard. In the case of another species, scaup, the EU saw no need for action, as its traffic-light rating was expected to improve to green. Against this backdrop, I ask the Minister of State to publish the basis for the scientific evidence that the four species were near extinct, or else withdraw it.

During the consultation on the review of the open-season order, the National Association of Regional Games Councils was invited to one meeting, which it attended. Further, more detailed meetings with the NARGC were promised but they never happened. This goes to the key point I am making. Consultation and engagement with rural interests have been lacking, particularly when compared with the level of engagement there has been with environmental NGOs. The Minister of State met the NARGC and the field sports sector five times but he has met environmental NGOs more than 50 times, according to his official diary.

Over the past three months, the NARGC has been in regular contact with the Minister of State's office seeking a meeting, but has yet to receive a response. The pattern is replicated in the Government's approach to stakeholder forums. In 2021, the review of the National Parks and Wildlife Service, NPWS, recommended the creation of a new advisory committee with a wide stakeholder base. The watered down strategic action plan, approved by the Government, agreed to establish a stakeholder forum, with an implementation deadline of September 2022. In response to a recent parliamentary question, the Minister of State referred to the establishment of the stakeholder forum and stated that an initial meeting was held in June 2023, with a number of environmental NGOs, including the Irish Environmental Network, IEN. However, this week at a committee meeting, the NPWS claimed that the forum was not yet established and that the meeting last year was a briefing for environmental NGOs. It is bad enough that the forum has not been established, long after the deadline of September 2022, but even worse, when rural interests are not afforded the benefit of the briefing which was afforded to environmental NGOs. The response to the question to the NPWS at the committee this week also suggests that the planned stakeholder forum may only be used to review the responses to the consultation on the review of wildlife legislation. This suggests only a limited role for the forum, which is very worrying. Rural interests deserve a permanent seat at the table.

Separately, last year's announcement on the open-season order was accompanied by a commitment to establish a sustainable hunting and wild bird stakeholders' forum, with the promise of it being established within weeks. Nearly a year later, there still has not been a meeting. All of this points to a clear pattern of rural interests being excluded, while environmental NGOs seem to have a direct line to the Minister of State. There needs to be parity of esteem and equal access to meetings for the NARGC and environmental NGOs. I remind the Minister of State that the NARGC is one of Ireland's best and biggest wild bird conservation organisations. I ask the Minister of State to commit to meeting the NARGC without any further delay and to commit to establishing the new NPWS stakeholder forum, without any further delay, to fully include rural interests, such as those of the NARGC.

Malcolm Noonan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Green Party)
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I thank Deputy Murphy for her question. My Department is committed to consultation with relevant interested parties in relation to ongoing policy decisions on hunting and conservation. As a member of the European Union, Ireland is obliged to comply with various directives and regulations that relate to conservation and game hunting. The EU has played a very significant role in developing minimum standards of protection for certain wildlife species and their habitats, and in the first instance, policy on conservation and game hunting is developed under the legal framework set down by EU law. In meeting these legal requirements and developing our own national policies, my Department is keen to engage with all relevant stakeholders. There is a recognition that policy needs to be achievable, workable and should strike a balance between the needs of humans and the needs of wildlife.

There is ongoing communication on a wide range of issues pertaining to the work of the NPWS. Examples include conservation schemes, a new e-licensing system for deer hunters, and the development this year of a new wild mammals open-seasons order that extended the hunting season. There are also a number of structures in place to ensure communication in relation to rural interests. For instance, earlier this year, the sustainable hunting of wild birds stakeholder forum was established. Mr. Teddy Cashman has been appointed as chair of this forum. The forum will facilitate discussions and collaboration across relevant sectors on the issue of sustainable hunting. All relevant stakeholders will be brought together to discuss a shared vision for sustainable hunting and to present recommendations to the Minister. A series of bilateral meetings with relevant stakeholders has commenced and the first full forum meeting of all relevant stakeholders will take place by the end of quarter 3 2024. I give my commitment to that.

A further example is the national biodiversity forum which comprises 15 to 20 members, including representatives of landowners, farmers, industry, natural heritage and environmental NGOs. The role of the forum includes improving stakeholder engagement and public awareness and understanding of biodiversity.

As the Deputy will be aware, the NPWS and my Department commenced a review of wildlife legislation today. This is an extensive review and is a multi-year project. It is examining closely the effectiveness of our legislation in protecting wildlife and regulating activities that adversely impact on wildlife and biodiversity. As part of this project, last year, my Department held early engagement meetings with 18 of the key stakeholders. It sought their broad initial views on what aspects of our legislation were weak, what needed to be improved, what was missing and what did not work for them. The engagement included farming groups, representatives of hunting organisations and game sports, and environmental organisations. My Department is committed to further meetings with national organisations with an interest in this area as the project develops and the need arises. We see the hunting sector as doing important work for conservation. As I said, a public consultation process commenced today. This will be the first of many phases of consultation. I encourage all interested parties to submit their views using this process and engage with the process as it develops. All submissions received will be carefully considered.

Regarding the NARGC, I checked back on the meeting schedule. I met the organisation four times. I spoke at its annual conference as well. There is a bit of confusion about the stakeholder groups. Along with officials from the NPWS, we host bilateral meetings with many environmental, community and stakeholder groups on a wide range of local and national issues. A meeting was held in June 2023 with a number of environmental NGOs, including the IEN. This is an umbrella network that represents more than 35 NGOs. A number of bilateral meetings have been held in the interim. To be clear, this was not a meeting of the structured stakeholder forum, as membership and the terms of reference for such a group have not been agreed. Throughout my tenure as Minister of State, my door has always been open. I am more than happy to meet any group to discuss any issue. There has been a lot of misinformation about the meetings I did or did not have with representative organisations. However, I do see the NARGC as an important stakeholder in the conservation of wildlife.

Verona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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I thank the Minister of State for the clarity. Unfortunately, the misinformation came from him. It was he who said that there had been the first meeting of stakeholder engagement. I am glad he has corrected the record. However, it is fundamental to the success of any policy that all stakeholders are included and that the Minister of State does not pick and choose to decide on the agenda, particularly an agenda that may not suit.

To be fair to the NARGC, I have attended many of its functions where thousands of euro were donated. The organisation has cross-border engagement with other countries, such as Norway and the other Nordic countries, with representatives coming here. The NARGC gave me my first introduction to conservation. It does it really well and I cannot see why anyone would be at odds with it. The NARGC has taken judicial review proceedings based on the lack of evidence that has been provided to remove four species. That is not the forum any of us need to be in.

Two days ago, I watched the committee proceedings with representatives from the NPWS. I have great time for Niall Ó Donnchú. However, I heard him use the phrase "based on scientific evidence" a number of times. That scientific evidence has not been provided or does not correlate with the actions that have been taken. That is where we have gone wrong here. It is imperative that rural stakeholders have the same level of engagement as NGOs, which are probably in receipt of some funding, whereas we have a voluntary organisation doing wonderful work. I have seen at first hand its conservation efforts.

I do not see why we should be at odds with one another. I again ask the Minister of State to ensure that when he refers to all stakeholders, he specifically mentions the NARGC.

Malcolm Noonan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Green Party)
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Absolutely. As I said, my door has always been open to all organisations. We are in the depths of a biodiversity crisis and it is critically important that all stakeholders play a role. I fully recognise the important work the NARGC and its members do, particularly with regard to grey partridge and other species across the country.

On the four species, the scientific evidence is there on the red- and amber-listed species to warrant their removal. I will say no more on that, but we must act in respect of those. As Minister of State, I have taken action when evidence was presented to me. That is important.

Separately, I reiterate the point about the engagement, the stakeholder forum and the two separate stakeholder processes that are taking place. I encourage the NARGC and all organisations to engage now in the very important process I have initiated today, namely the review of our wildlife legislation. That is extremely important. It is available on the Department’s website today. We ask them to engage in that. There was a consultation with stakeholders in relation to the open season order.

My Department and I, for as long as I am Minister of State, will engage with relevant stakeholders. I see our hunting lobby and our environmental NGOs as all having an equal say in this because not many other stakeholders feel they have a view on wildlife and nature conservation in Ireland. It is very important that we keep those channels of communication open. Again, I reach out to say that to the NARGC today.