Pauline Tully (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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67. To ask the Minister for Communications, Climate Action and Environment the actions he has taken to ensure that the deposit return scheme is accessible to disabled people since the launch of the scheme; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [27566/24]

Pauline Tully (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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I ask the Minister what actions he has taken to ensure that the deposit return scheme, DRS, is accessible to disabled people, since the launch of the scheme.

Ossian Smyth (Dún Laoghaire, Green Party)
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The DRS is a national infrastructure project which operates primarily on a return-to-retail model. Under the DRS regulations, retailers are required to charge customers a deposit for each bottle sold, to take back empty containers, unless exempt, and to refund the deposit to customers. Retailers are also required to ensure that the take-back facility they provide on their premises is accessible for anyone wishing to return empty containers.

Inclusivity for all consumers is essential for a successful scheme. Individuals who have difficulties in returning bottles and cans to their local retailers should contact Re-Turn, the DRS operator, directly and it will work with the local retail community to find a solution that works for all involved. Re-Turn is committed to ensuring that all locations are accessible to consumers and are working closely with retailers and with reverse vending machine, RVM, suppliers to embed best practice, ensuring that nationally, the system is optimised in terms of convenience and accessibility for all.

With the advice of the National Disability Authority, NDA, Re-Turn is embarking on an consultative process that will examine any accessibility issues in line with best practice. An advisory group has been established, to advise Re-Turn on the process, and includes representatives from a number of disability organisations. The group had its first meeting on 6 June. An independent consultant is being appointed to manage the consultation process and, once appointed, all advocacy groups will be invited to participate in the consultation process.

Pauline Tully (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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I find this a bit unbelievable. Planning for this scheme has taken many months, maybe even years. The scheme was launched at the beginning of the year and the first meeting to properly discuss and have consultation around accessiblity took place on 6 June. Now an advisory panel is going to be put in place. The machines are already in place. They are welcome and are working well. However, any of them I have used are at my eye level and I am not small. I do not know how a wheelchair user would use them in the first place. For anyone who is visually impaired or blind, there is no Braille on the receipt button. How are people supposed to know where they get their receipt? They might be able to find the inlet where the bottle or can goes but how can they know where to get the receipt from?

People with mobility issues and without access to transport who shop online are dependent on having their shopping delivered. There is no mechanism in place for them to return the bottles. Many of them in areas where boil water notices are in place have to buy bottled water. They are dependent on this scheme and it is costing them money not being able to return the bottles.

Ossian Smyth (Dún Laoghaire, Green Party)
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The scheme was in planning for a number of years. In 2020 and 2021, there were public consultation processes which were open to everybody to offer their advice or suggestions on how the scheme should operate. When I drew up the regulations, I made it a legal requirement that the machines should be accessible to all. The Department of the Environment, Climate and Communications has a waste advisory group on which the NDA is represented. There were discussions with the NDA before the scheme was implemented. We followed what is best practice in other countries. These machines have been operating for 40 years in other countries across western and northern Europe. We had the experience of what happens for disability groups from visiting those countries.

As a result of that, there were certain standards implemented, such as, for example: that the slot for inserting bottles is 1.2 m off the ground in order that it is accessible to wheelchair users; that the machines can be used by people who are blind such that they are not required to push buttons on a screen; that the machines issue receipts automatically; and that people can feel whether a bottle is being accepted or rejected. Even in light of all that, when a scheme is launched, one needs to see afterwards whether it is working for the different groups. That is the purpose of setting up the advisory group. It is also the purpose of inviting every disability group to take part and tell us directly how they would like the scheme changed, whether it can be improved and whether it can be made more accessible. I am sure it can be, and I am certainly open to hearing any suggestions.

Pauline Tully (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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It is all right to talk about public consultation processes but if those processes are not accessible to everybody then they are not much use. We have to ensure that everybody is included, that they are easy to read and that there are accessible forms of consultation to ensure that everyone’s voices are heard.

The scheme in Demark, for example, has been operating for 20 years. It is very successful. It has some sort of mechanism for people who have their shopping delivered to return their receipts via Denmark's revenue commissioners or in some other way. Something like that could be worked out here. I am more concerned about the machines. They are expensive machines that are already in place. You do have to press a button to get it because you have to indicate that you are finished inserting your bottles and cans. I do it all the time. The fact is that the machines are inaccessible. I do not know how this can be addressed or how it can be ensured that all the machines are made accessible. At present, they are not accessible.

Ossian Smyth (Dún Laoghaire, Green Party)
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In the case of those who cannot leave their homes and have food delivered, I understand Re-Turn is working with meals on wheels to see if it can come up with a solution. It is also working with community groups, GAA clubs and so on to see whether it can be addressed that way. Re-Turn has dealt with people who have contacted it and has found solutions for them.

On the machines requiring users to push a button, all the different machine types I have tried will give a receipt if a person waits long enough. If one waits a few seconds, the receipt will emerge. There is no requirement to navigate an on-screen interface or press particular buttons. The receipt comes out after a period. That said, the experience of using a supermarket for somebody who is blind is completely different in my experience. It can only be described by somebody who is blind. It is obviously very difficult. One cannot tell which products on the shelves are which and one cannot see the prices of products. It is difficult. Reverse vending machines are probably one of the most accessible components in supermarkets. It is difficult to use a supermarket when you have disabilities. It is difficult to reach things on the higher shelves and so on. However, the only way to understand this properly is by working with people with lived experience of disability, listening to them, taking their suggestions and changing the scheme as needed.