Louise O'Reilly (Dublin Fingal, Sinn Fein)
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This morning, pilots at Aer Lingus started industrial action in the form of a work-to-rule. As a consequence, Aer Lingus has already cancelled almost 300 flights with more to follow. The impact of the work-to-rule and specifically the ban on overtime is difficult to predict and passengers have been warned that their flights may be cancelled right up to the moment they arrive at the departure gates. This has upended the holiday plans of tens of thousands of workers and families, many of whom can scarcely afford to rearrange these plans. Let us be honest; people have worked hard all year. They have booked their annual leave, their two weeks off, and are now faced with the prospect of having to tell their employers that they may need more annual leave and, more importantly, having to tell the kids that the holiday is cancelled. They have been looking forward to this all year.

Many in our tourism sector are extremely concerned. This industrial action presents the prospect of serious problems for our economy and for our connectivity as an island. We are only a small island. Connectivity is absolutely everything. The consequences of this industrial action will be wide-ranging. Those working in the tourism sector will tell you that they have seen a slowdown in bookings for weeks and that they are now braced for cancellations. They are only just getting back on their feet after the Covid pandemic and all of the other challenges they have faced in the recent past. They need a good season this year.

The overdependence on overtime in Aer Lingus means that the impact of a work-to-rule could be almost as disruptive as that of a full strike, which we know will be happening on Saturday unless there is a resolution. This is not a run-of-the-mill industrial relations dispute. It is a matter of significant national importance. The hands-off approach that the Government has taken to helping to achieve a resolution up to now has been disappointing to say the least. In fact, it is a dereliction of the Government's duty to passengers and businesses alike. We have been raising this issue for weeks now. A week ago, I wrote to the Taoiseach urging him to make a decisive intervention. I got a holding reply but, as of yet, I have not had an answer. This is not good enough at all. The Labour Court was only going to intervene if there was a reasonable prospect of it being able to mediate a resolution. I do not believe this was ever likely. This was pointed out in the Dáil last Thursday and confirmed by the Labour Court yesterday.

It is incumbent on the Government to intervene now. Given the seriousness of this dispute for families and for the wider economy, there is a need for the Minister for enterprise and the Minister for Transport to engage in a constructive manner to get all sides around the table immediately. Every influence needs to be brought to bear to turn things around and to ensure a resolution. The key is getting both parties at the table with meaningful objectives and a willingness to strike an agreement. This is far too important not to intervene. It is far too serious to simply look the other way. The Minister has to accept that her Government's hands-off approach up to now is not working.

What does the Government plan to do to ensure this dispute is resolved speedily? I am fairly sure the Minister's constituency office is as busy as mine. People are starting to ring. They want to know what the Government is prepared to do. Is it prepared to take any action to ensure that the parties are brought around the table and that a resolution is reached? There is less than three days left to avert the strike action that is to take place this coming Saturday. People are watching. They want to know whether the Government intends to intervene or whether it will simply stand by and watch as thousands of people have their holiday plans ruined and as people in the tourism sector face into a very uncertain season.

Heather Humphreys (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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Before I answer the question, would the Ceann Comhairle mind if I paid a short tribute to the late Tommie Gorman? It was with shock and sadness that we learned of Tommie's sudden passing yesterday. He was a true professional and an absolute gentleman. Outside of his job as an RTÉ correspondent, he had a genuine interest in the Northern Ireland peace process. Even though he was retired, he continued to build relationships and break down barriers. Nobody was more committed to public service broadcasting. It was with great pride that he showed a number of us in this House around the grounds of his beloved Sligo Rovers. He also showed us the club's ambitious plans for the future. I am sure he will be steering the plans from on high. I extend our sympathies to his family. What can I say other than "Goodbye" to Tommie, our pal?

I will now address the question the Deputy has raised.

I fully understand how frustrating and upsetting it is for many people who are now potentially unable to go on holiday, get married or travel for important work reasons. Yesterday the Labour Court met each party for a briefing on their perspectives. It does not believe at this time that any efforts on its part will assist the parties in finding a resolution to their dispute. The Labour Court remains available to the parties and the situation will be reviewed comprehensively on Monday, 1 July. The court has urged the parties to desist from any further escalation of the dispute in the meantime. The Labour Court was jointly requested to investigate this trade dispute by Aer Lingus and the Fórsa trade union. That happened, and I understand that on 23 May it issued an interim recommendation to stabilise the situation while engagement continued. The interim recommendation of the court was, as I understand it, rejected by the Fórsa trade union. The court remains available to the parties and has urged them to desist from any further escalation of the dispute in the meantime.

I understand how difficult it is for people. We all know once Christmas is over people start saving for that summer holiday. They save ever week, sometimes in the local credit union. I often saw the case where the children would come in with the money because they were so excited about going on their summer holidays. It is awful for parents to have to break the news to their children that they cannot go. My heart goes out to them, it really does. The Government is doing everything we can. We are using the industrial relations machinery, which the Deputy well knows is the mechanism whereby these disputes are resolved. The Taoiseach met union and employer representatives on Monday through the Labour Employer Economic Forum, LEEF, and took the opportunity to highlight the Government's concerns about the economic, consumer and reputational impact of the industrial dispute. I urge all parties to encourage Aer Lingus and the Irish Air Line Pilots Association to engage with the industrial relations machinery of the State to reach a negotiated outcome. Intensive efforts must be made by both parties to avoid further disruption that impacts the travelling public and the wider economy. I hope both sides will maximise the opportunity that is there in the Labour Court. I urge them to get back to the table.

Stephen Donnelly (Wicklow, Fianna Fail)
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Well said.

Louise O'Reilly (Dublin Fingal, Sinn Fein)
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With the greatest of respect to the Taoiseach, whatever it was he said on Monday did not work because the industrial action started at one minute past midnight today. As the Minister rightly said, people are facing into a chaotic summer now. They have spent all year working hard, they have spent all this time saving up and they are looking in now. The Minister tells me her heart goes out to them, and mine does too, but I put a fairly simple question to her, namely, what is her Government prepared to do? She said in her response the Government is doing everything it can. Is the Minister telling me genuinely that everything it can do amounts simply to her saying her heart goes out to them? People would like to see some decisive action from the Government. They are looking for leadership from the Government and want to see a high-level intervention. As I said in my opening remarks, this is not a run-of-the-mill dispute. It is not an ordinary, common-or-garden industrial relations dispute. It is a dispute that threatens connectivity and that is why it is a matter for the Government. People do not want to hear sympathetic words. They want to know what it is the Minister and her Government are prepared to do to help them.

Heather Humphreys (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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The Deputy knows better than most that we have very good industrial relations machinery within this State. The Labour Court intervened and it has a long history of resolving disputes, as the Deputy and I know well. This dispute will be resolved. They are always resolved in the end, but it is about the pain people have to go through in the interim. We are committed and we have asked the parties to go back to the Labour Court. What we need here is cool heads. We need to leave the egos at the door and get back into the negotiating room. I am saying that to both parties. If everyone sticks to their own position, we will never find a solution. As the Deputy and I know, a solution will be found, but I am thinking, as she is, of those who cannot go on their holidays. I am saying to both parties that they should start talking. This will be resolved. They should use the mechanism that is there, which is the Labour Court. There has to be compromise; they have to talk. It is concerning that the Labour Court met both parties yesterday and they were too far apart. They should get back to the table and resolve this issue. There is a solution. There is always a solution.

Stephen Donnelly (Wicklow, Fianna Fail)
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Hear, hear.

Ivana Bacik (Dublin Bay South, Labour)
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Average house prices are now a whopping 35% higher nationally than they were at the start of the pandemic. Daft.ie tells us that in the past three months house prices have risen again. Coupled with a spiralling cost of living and slow wage growth, owning a home is getting further and further out of reach for far too many people. That fact is borne out by Threshold’s annual tenant sentiment survey, which it published today. It shows a staggering 94% of renters are not renting by choice. They are renting because they have no other option and are trapped in a rental casino. Their weak rights and protections mean they can be evicted at short notice for almost any reason and they are typically handing over a massive amount of money for the privilege. Three quarters of those surveyed report struggling to cover the cost of their basic expenses after paying their rent.

These findings show an overwhelming majority of renters do not want to rent, but have no other option. What are they supposed to do? What is a person supposed to do today when trying to find a roof over their head in the worst housing crisis in the history of this State, a housing crisis I have described as the civil rights issue of this generation? A mortgage is out of reach for countless people, especially those who are single or living in cities. Even the Government's affordable schemes are out of reach for many people on good salaries. We need only look at the Oscar Traynor Woods scheme in Coolock. Renting is now neither affordable nor available for those who cannot scrape together the money for a deposit to buy.

There are schemes in place and we acknowledge that, but most of them are so bureaucratic they are impossible to access, and none of them meet the real level of need. Let us take the cost rental tenant in situ scheme. It is a good idea in principle that we in Labour called for. However, in recent weeks I have been supporting people from Dublin, Kerry and Limerick, all of whom have been locked out of the scheme due to unnecessary bureaucracy, so it is not working in practice. Take the couple, both in full-time employment, who have been renting in the private sector for 20 years. They recently received a notice to quit and are now facing the awful prospect of homelessness, despite being eligible for the scheme, because the Housing Agency is stringing them along, refusing to approve the vital purchase which would keep them in their home. The homelessness figures for May will be released on Friday and I will be doing all I can to ensure this couple and so many more are not represented in next month’s homeless figures.

The Government is nearing the end of its term and, for all the launches and glossy reports, the housing plans and schemes have not worked. They have not worked to address the root problem, namely, that housing is treated by her Government as a market commodity rather than as a common good. What schemes exist are so shrouded in red tape as to be inaccessible to those who most need them. What will the Minister do over the summer in particular to address the flaws in that cost rental tenant in situ scheme? What will she do to ensure people have the necessary supports to keep a roof over their heads and stay in their homes?

Heather Humphreys (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Deputy for raising this matter. The issue, of course, as we all know, is supply. The only way to address all the issues is to increase supply and the Government has been doing that. Over 32,000 housing units have commenced in the first five months of 2024. That is around the same number as in the whole of 2023. Some 500 individuals or couples are buying their first home every single week, which is also the highest first-time buyer activity since the property crash. No option is off the table when it comes to housing. We are in the business of looking for more ideas, more novel approaches and more innovative ways to continue to increase supply. When it comes to house prices the most important indicator is how house prices compare with people's incomes, and that remains relatively stable. That is why 500 families are buying their first home every single week.

The Deputy mentioned the cost rental tenant in situ scheme. It allows tenants to continue to reside in the property with the ultimate aim of transitioning these properties and tenants to the standard cost rental framework over the longer term.

Some 97 properties have had bids accepted or have been acquired to the end of quarter 4 of 2023 since the launch of the scheme on 1 April 2023. The Department continues to work with local authorities to ensure that there is sufficient capacity in emergency accommodation. There is a lot happening there but we are seeing the results.

The Deputy mentioned homelessness. I know the figures are out at the end of this week and we know that there are too many people and too many children in emergency accommodation. However, context is important. Families become homeless all the time for various reasons and the most common reason is relationship breakdown. We can never stop that from occurring but we will continue to help families to avoid entering emergency accommodation and help them exit as soon as possible if they do.

It is important to say that when we talk about homeless families, they are not living on the street. The State is providing these families with accommodation and it is something we continue to work on. We are making progress, there is no doubt about that, and we accept there is more to be done. We will continue to work hard with the schemes we have in place. No stone will be left unturned with regard to housing, and I have to say, the Minister, Deputy O'Brien, is working extremely hard and effectively on this issue.

Ivana Bacik (Dublin Bay South, Labour)
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I am troubled by the Minister's reply. Of course we all agree that the key issue here is achieving increased supply and delivery of homes. I could not agree more with the Minister but the problem is her Government has not done enough to address this. Even the Government's own targets in Housing for All are clearly and patently too low. We have been promised the publication of increased targets by Government for many months now. The Taoiseach said again just yesterday that the revised upwards target would eventually be published in autumn of this year, but that is far too late. We are not seeing either an increase in ambition or the necessary increase in urgency to ensure there is the delivery of homes there.

When I ask the Minister a specific question about a specific scheme, she tells me about 97 properties. That is a drop in the ocean compared with the thousands of people in emergency homelessness, including over 4,000 children, as the Minister has acknowledged. The schemes that are there are just not working. I will repeat my question and ask what the Government is going to do for those who are trying to make the Government-backed schemes work in order to keep them, their children and their families in their homes. How will the Government commit to tweaking the cost rental tenant in situ scheme to make it work? It is just not working, and I have given the Minister one very specific example of a couple for whom it should be working, and it patently is not. What will the Government do to address this?

Heather Humphreys (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Deputy. I am happy to take the example the Deputy has given me and to get the details from her later. I will raise it with the Minister because if there are issues that need to be changed to make it work better, we are happy to take views on board. There is no doubt about that. What I am saying to the Deputy, however, is that we continue to offer a suite of different supports in the housing sector. We believe they are working because, as I said at the outset, 32,000 housing units have commenced in the first five months of 2024. That is progress and it is about achieving what we want to do, which is producing more houses. As I said, the only way to address this is to increase the supply.

The Government comes at affordability through different issues such as the increase in supply and the help-to-buy and first home schemes. The tenant in situ scheme is something that does work. I know of people who had good tenants and they wanted to move the property along. The local authority bought it and the tenants were able to stay on in the property. That is important. People are in their houses and are allowed now to stay on as local authority tenants.

Noel Grealish (Galway West, Independent)
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I have raised various issues regarding law and order with several taoisigh and Ministers for Justice going back through the years. I have produced figures in this House showing how more than 32,000 crimes a year are being committed by offenders while out on bail, an increase of 41% on the total of ten years ago, and amounting to about 90 crimes every day of the year.

We are paying out more than €75 million a year on free legal aid in criminal cases, very often footing the bill for serial offenders with hundreds of previous convictions who do not have to make any contribution to their defence. Four out of five burglars released from prison in Ireland go on to reoffend within a short period, more than half of them within a year of their release. Overall, three out of five offenders released from custodial sentences reoffend within three years, most of them within the first 12 months.

Figures I have received from the Courts Service show that people are apparently ignoring fines imposed by the courts in respect of various breaches of the law. Currently, up to three quarters of the fines imposed by the courts in Ireland are going unpaid. Last year, more than €15 million of the €20 million plus in fines imposed was not paid, and the total value of unpaid fines over the past five years amounts to more than €48 million. That is from the Courts Service.

So far this year, more than 43,000 of the 60,000 plus fines imposed by the courts during 2023 are still outstanding. A total value of more than €15.2 million remains unpaid. Many of these fines were imposed in respect of serious offences and were obviously intended to act as a deterrent against further breaches of the law. However, the figures I have received show that most people simply ignore them. For instance, there were more than 5,700 fines imposed last year on people convicted of public order offences but only about 1,300 of them were paid. In the past five years, a total of 144,000 fines have gone unpaid. In that period, enforcement sanctions were only imposed on 3,300 offenders. These are figures the Courts Service supplied to me earlier this year.

With over €48 million outstanding in fines for the past five years, what does the Government propose to do to recoup that money?

Heather Humphreys (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Deputy. The point he makes is absolutely correct. There are a lot of fines outstanding there that have not been paid. If a person is due to pay a fine, I think he or she should be paying it. If the person does not pay it, the route is back into court again, as I understand it. Then we will be faced with situations where people who did not pay maybe relatively small fines have been brought back into the courts and may face a custodial sentence. The Deputy knows himself what happens then, and sometimes there is a lot of concern about that.

I agree that we need an effective, efficient and robust criminal legal system. The Department of Justice is currently working to reform how criminal legal aid works. As part of this work, the Minister has published the general scheme of the criminal justice (legal aid) Bill 2023. This Bill will outline the operation of the criminal legal aid scheme. It will introduce strengthened oversight and governance structures, and I can confirm to the Deputy that the general scheme is currently with the Office of the Parliamentary Counsel for drafting.

It is important that proper assessments are carried out when deciding if a person can qualify for criminal legal aid, and that is why this new legislation will allow the courts, where the courts might consider it warranted, to refer an applicant to the legal aid board for an assessment of their financial circumstances to be carried out under regulations to be drawn up under the terms of the Bill. The board will then be able to recommend that a person can afford to contribute to their legal costs, rather than having the entire bill borne by the taxpayer. A court will make the final decision in the matter. However, I am informed that to restrict access to criminal legal aid for repeat offenders would be found to be unconstitutional. Any unreasonable block on legal aid could give a convicted person an avenue for appeal and delay the outcome of the case even further. To do so would run contrary to the protection of our democracy and the rule of law.

It is important for me to emphasise that the law in respect of bail is comprehensive and has been strengthened on a number of occasions over the years, most recently in 2017. The Department of Justice is currently working on the modernisation of criminal legal aid and will continue to engage with all relevant stakeholders, including the legal profession, on the modernisation and funding of the legal aid system.

I take the point the Deputy has raised. It is concerning when people do not pay their fines. I will raise the matter again with the Minister. It is a bit of a bugbear for many. When people are fined, that is the penalty and they should pay their fines.

Noel Grealish (Galway West, Independent)
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Many people refusing to pay fines could be repeat offenders who have no respect whatsoever for the law. I am sure it is frustrating for An Garda Síochána, which carries out investigations and brings offenders to court, only for them to get off scot-free without paying fines or being punished for their crimes. We have to show the law-abiding citizens of our country that people who go before the courts and are fined are made to pay. Whether that is a payment or deduction from their social welfare or wages, they must be made to pay for their crimes. In the Minister's Department, if people are overpaid on their social welfare payment or pension, an investigation happens and it is found to have been wrongly paid, then the money is deducted from their future payments. Every person has a PPS number. I am sure many people who go before the courts are either getting wages or a social welfare payment. If they do not pay the fine, after a period of six months, it should be deducted from their social welfare or salary. Hit them where it hurts, because if they do not pay the fine, they will keep reoffending. What measures does the Government propose to make sure that people who commit often serious offences are made to pay for their crimes?

Heather Humphreys (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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I agree with the Deputy that people should absolutely pay the fines that are imposed on them. If they do not pay, there should be some way of deducting it. The Deputy is right. If they do not pay the fines, they could be brought back into court again, because if they do not comply with the ruling of the court, that is an offence. I have to say that they do have certain rights. Repeat offenders have certain rights too even though it can be frustrating to see them appearing time and time again and getting free legal aid. I fully understand that. The European Convention on Human Rights provides that every person charged with a criminal offence is entitled to defend themselves in person or through legal assistance of their own choosing, or if they have insufficient means to pay for legal assistance, to be given it for free when the interests of justice so require.

As mentioned, the criminal legal aid scheme was to operate with due regard to these rights. Any unreasonable block to legal aid could give a convicted defendant an avenue for appeal or prohibition of the prosecution. I absolutely take on board what the Deputy is saying and I will raise the matter again with the Minister for Justice. It is only right and proper, if a fine is imposed, that people pay the fine and pay their dues back to society for whatever reason it was imposed.

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary, Independent)
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On behalf of the Rural Independent Group, I too want to pay tribute to the late Tommie Gorman. He was a wonderful journalist and wonderful person. He visited the Circle of Friends cancer care centre in Tipperary only months ago and gave up his time there. He was in my parish some weeks ago. He was a wonderful man. Ní bheidh a leithéid arís ann.

The response of the Government and TDs that the EU will take care of us and that we cannot go it alone on the migration issue is naive in the extreme. There are many measures that Ireland can take independently. People do not realise that the EU is part of the problem. It is fundamentally undemocratic to vote for a pact as a whole when each measure was voted on and debated separately in the EU for a period of ten years. Why the indecent haste? What is the rush? There is no time limit on voting on this pact, so why are we rushing to vote on it tonight in the Chamber after so little scrutiny? I do not believe this is what the Irish people voted for on the Lisbon Treaty all those years ago. Some 15 years after that treaty, the Government is using such measures as the whip to usher in the migration pact, which will bring about a life-altering situation for the Irish people, without resort to either judicial scrutiny or another referendum so that the people can vote on it.

Article 29.4.7° of our Constitution authorises the Oireachtas to vote on this measure under Protocol No. 21. It does not absolve any Member of the Oireachtas from their fiduciary duty or indeed moral responsibility to the people of Ireland to ensure that any and all such measures which affect the people will have had the benefit of judicial scrutiny and-or an opportunity to vote in a referendum on this issue. I believe it is morally reprehensible and negligent of Members of the House to vote on this pact in such circumstances and by so doing, deny the opportunity to the Irish people to have the constitutionality of this pact tested by the courts.

This is not what the Irish people voted for in the context of the Lisbon Treaty by a long shot. This pact will involve the biggest transfer of our sovereignty in the history of our State. To give that away in a simple vote without scrutiny or consideration of the constitutional implications will go down in the history of the State as the greatest ever betrayal of the Irish people by their own Members of Parliament. If this EU migration pact is voted in and we opt into this pact, we can never opt out thereafter because the necessitated obligations under Article 29.4.6° of our Constitution will apply and these measures can never be tested by the courts, and our fate is set.

Heather Humphreys (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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I thank Deputy McGrath for raising this matter. The EU pact on migration and asylum will be a game-changer for Ireland. It will speed up the processing of asylum seekers so that we have a firmer and fairer system. It will make it easier to return those who are found not to be entitled to protection. It will introduce greater security checking of applicants. Ireland cannot do this on its own. We need co-operation and we need other countries to be willing to accept people who should not be processed here. It does not mean that the EU will make the decisions for us. This pact offers us all in Europe a real opportunity to work together to design a system that is firm but fair, based on a fair sharing of responsibility that works for everyone.

We are not waiting for the pact to take effect to make changes. There is a significant increase in processing in the International Protection Office. There is accelerated processing for designated safe countries, with eight further countries under review. That has reduced applications from those countries by 50%. Steps have been taken to reduce the numbers arriving without documents and there has been a reduction of 34%. The review of airline fines is under way. Plane doorstep operations are under way. We have introduced visa controls on a number of additional countries, with further countries under review. We have increased the focus on assisting people to leave.

The Dáil and the Seanad are fully debating approving Ireland's request to opt into the pact. Extra speaking time has been allocated for this week. If approved, the Minister, Deputy McEntee, will start to prepare the general scheme of new legislation to replace the International Protection Act 2015 and an implementation plan will be launched. When that new scheme is complete and prepared, that will go through both Houses of the Oireachtas. It will be subject to pre-legislative scrutiny and then go through the Dáil and the Seanad. There will be plenty more opportunity for people to give their views on it.

The Deputy referred to our health service. The Deputy and I well know that our health service would not operate without migration into this country. We benefit every day-----

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary, Independent)
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I did not mention it.

Heather Humphreys (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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The Deputy mentioned it earlier. We benefit every day from people who come to work in this country. Migration plays an essential role in our society and economy. We have a rules-based immigration system that is both firm and fair. It is vital to ensure the integrity of that system and that it is robust enough to cope with complex and fast-changing migratory patterns. That pact will do just that.

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary, Independent)
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I never mentioned the health service but I acknowledge the wonderful service that nurses, doctors and all kinds of specialists give. I have been a beneficiary of that myself, but the Minister is trying to distract me. I never mentioned it today.

The people voted on the Lisbon Treaty in 2009. They did not vote for this. That is sure and certain. The Government has scant regard for articles of the Constitution or the people's decision, as far as I am concerned. Why are we rushing this? The Minister said there will be legislation, but if we vote to opt into this tonight, we can never opt out. It is as clear as the nose on our faces that we can never opt out. The Minister is talking about debate. There was no debate in this House. There were statements.

Heather Humphreys (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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There was debate.

Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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There was loads of debate.

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary, Independent)
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There were no questions and answers and no proper scrutiny. There was one meeting of the committee, where the Minister was unable to answer any questions. I was there on that day. At the next meeting of the committee, as kind of an add-on, all the NGOs were brought in. They were wheeled out to tell us what we were not doing right.

The people who are running this country now are the NGOs. It is a total betrayal of the people of Ireland for the Oireachtas to vote this in without consulting them or testing it in the High Court. I cannot emphasise that strongly enough. This is such a serious issue that it took ten years for the EU to deal with, but we are going to vote it in after three or four days of debate without having any questions and answers, as I have said, or scrutiny. That is bad law-making. It is bad for our people. It is majorly ceding our sovereignty. In my opinion, it is shameful and criminal.

Heather Humphreys (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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There were six hours of debate at the committee in respect of the EU pact on migration and asylum.

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary, Independent)
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Six hours.

Heather Humphreys (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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Yes, there were.

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary, Independent)
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It took ten years in Europe.

Heather Humphreys (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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Believe it or not, the Deputy must have known about this because I understand that the committee ran out of speakers. Speaking time was given here. Extra speaking time was allocated last week. If I remember correctly, we had a vote on allocating extra time. Deputy Mattie McGrath voted against that.

Deputies:

Yes.

Heather Humphreys (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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I think so.

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary, Independent)
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Of course I did.

Heather Humphreys (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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There was an open-ended debate yesterday, so there has been ample time to discuss this.

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary, Independent)
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When-----

Heather Humphreys (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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As I said to the Deputy earlier, when the legislation is ready to go through the Houses, there will be more than sufficient time at that point too because he will be able to attend the pre-legislative scrutiny hearings.

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary, Independent)
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It is too late to opt out.

Heather Humphreys (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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Then there will be Second Stage, Committee Stage, Report Stage and Fifth Stage. When we are finished all that, the Deputy can go the Seanad.

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary, Independent)
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Dress it up any way you like.

Heather Humphreys (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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Well, the Deputy cannot go to the Seanad. However, there will be an opportunity for the Seanad to debate it.

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary, Independent)
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Dress it up any way you like.

Heather Humphreys (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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There is a lot of time there for the Deputy, so I do not know.

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary, Independent)
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I would not like to see you at the fair. You would buy a pig in a poke.

Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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That concludes Leaders' Questions for today, thanks be to God.